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Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 10:36 PM Mar 2016

If you support HRC, how many issues are you going to be ok with her moving hard to the right on

after she's nominated? Do you have any minimum standards on that?

("moving to 'the center'" is the same thing as moving hard to the right, btw).

Would you at least agree that it's not good enough for her to reduce the differences between her and Trump in the fall to just being slightly pro-choice and slightly pro-LGBTQ, right?

If nothing else, would you agree that she has an obligation to never, under any circumstances, end up to the right of Trump on any issues?

(remember...any president that runs as a "centrist" is going to be stuck there, forever).



107 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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If you support HRC, how many issues are you going to be ok with her moving hard to the right on (Original Post) Ken Burch Mar 2016 OP
A lot of them don't really care about issues jfern Mar 2016 #1
It does seem that way. CaliforniaPeggy Mar 2016 #2
I keep hearing three things astrophuss42 Mar 2016 #5
In other words, they think they are electing a Prom Queen instead of a President pdsimdars Mar 2016 #46
Some kind of a queen, anyway. dchill Mar 2016 #51
It's a matter of faith mindwalker_i Mar 2016 #7
Good god - ain't that the truth Ferd Berfel Mar 2016 #60
This primary is showing the huge divide between the two groups mindwalker_i Mar 2016 #65
NO. LeFleur1 Mar 2016 #66
When Berni spoke agains the Democratic Party Ferd Berfel Mar 2016 #67
Let me take these one at a time... mindwalker_i Mar 2016 #68
Illusion LeFleur1 Mar 2016 #69
"I'm not sure what strategy of Democrats you are pointing out that is terrible" mindwalker_i Mar 2016 #70
"He has not scolded his young followers for staying home last election" JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #78
I Agree LeFleur1 Mar 2016 #92
All of us pooling our tax money to get things done is not GreenPartyVoter Mar 2016 #99
Are you Republican? Because this makes it sound like you are. Ed Suspicious Mar 2016 #101
They don't care about issues at all. They like to be on the side of Big Money. rhett o rick Mar 2016 #20
You really don't care about whether or not what you say is true at all, do you? Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2016 #84
No, but they sure love their "gotchas!" villager Mar 2016 #27
Some believe that healthcare and education UglyGreed Mar 2016 #76
Sadly so. EndElectoral Mar 2016 #96
all SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2016 #3
Don't think that will happen, but expect you guys to keep posting such BS. Hoyt Mar 2016 #4
Check back in a couple of years Armstead Mar 2016 #53
Issues? QC Mar 2016 #6
None. Which is why I hope you'll stick around for her Presidency . . . Chichiri Mar 2016 #8
I'm not planning to leave. n/t. Ken Burch Mar 2016 #10
Good! Chichiri Mar 2016 #12
It's interesting HDSam Mar 2016 #15
Finally a Hillary supporter I can agree with on something... Chan790 Mar 2016 #35
She's got plenty of room if she's the nominee. revbones Mar 2016 #77
She'll lose if she does. Chan790 Mar 2016 #90
We'll see what happens then if she's the nominee. revbones Mar 2016 #91
There is no center as the term is used currently. haikugal Mar 2016 #105
You aren't preventing it now. Why would you later? timmymoff Mar 2016 #74
Oh, god... where have I heard that before. Marr Mar 2016 #75
If they cared at all about issues, they wouldn't support Hillary to begin with Doctor_J Mar 2016 #9
Bernie and Hillary agree on most issues oberliner Mar 2016 #41
Wow! I got a bridge for sale. . .. pdsimdars Mar 2016 #47
Bernie and Hillary voted the same way in the Senate over 90 percent of the time oberliner Mar 2016 #63
. JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #80
Probably because about 90% of votes TheFarseer Mar 2016 #82
"You can rapidly compile a list of important votes that were different on major issues" oberliner Mar 2016 #93
That doesn't mean Hillary and Sanders agree on 90% of the issues. Marr Mar 2016 #85
True, but they generally are on the same side against the Republicans oberliner Mar 2016 #94
"Issues" can be a smokescreen -- the real Issue is breaking up the matrix of Money and Power Armstead Mar 2016 #55
That is definitely an important issue oberliner Mar 2016 #64
Show us the evidence that she "moved to the right" after an election brooklynite Mar 2016 #11
Iraq Vote is the really obvious example. Recently she staked out the 'Reagan was an AIDS hero' Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #32
Bankruptcy sideing with Big banks Gwhittey Mar 2016 #39
She voted to make flag burning a criminal offense. JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #81
You got several responses. Marr Mar 2016 #86
as a fifty-year member of the labor wing of the Democratic Party silvershadow Mar 2016 #13
Hillary is ALREADY Hard Right. John Poet Mar 2016 #14
TED CRUZ nt fun n serious Mar 2016 #23
Who can't even secure a fraction of the votes in the loony GOP primary. Marr Mar 2016 #88
She's also affiliated with the dominionists...The Family...a good read, very informative. haikugal Mar 2016 #107
I read tonight because she favors expanding ACA to single payer she moved hard right seabeyond Mar 2016 #16
I though HDSam Mar 2016 #17
Yeah...me too. n/t. Ken Burch Mar 2016 #18
So? Regardless of her reasoning, I read today because she favors expanding ACA she was pulled hard seabeyond Mar 2016 #22
She did, and if you saw the video it was clear that... ReallyIAmAnOptimist Mar 2016 #24
Wait, what? Scootaloo Mar 2016 #26
Awwwww man Glamrock Mar 2016 #42
Ha. I was wondering what was up. She prefers expanding ACA to (rather than) adopting a single payer. seabeyond Mar 2016 #57
Today- Hillary Clinton: Single-payer health care will "never, ever" happen. Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #33
She prefers expanding ACA to (rather than) adopting a single payer. seabeyond Mar 2016 #58
I'm glad I didn't see it... Chan790 Mar 2016 #37
These are ALL lies. fun n serious Mar 2016 #19
I remember the 1990s... Chan790 Mar 2016 #38
exactly ibegurpard Mar 2016 #50
Financial deregulation too. HooptieWagon Mar 2016 #56
I rember the 90s Gwhittey Mar 2016 #40
Kick and R BeanMusical Mar 2016 #21
All of them, Charlie... Fumesucker Mar 2016 #25
All of them Sky Masterson Mar 2016 #28
Well, I want single payer healthcare, and Social Security to be strong PatrickforO Mar 2016 #29
This says it all - djean111 Mar 2016 #30
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2016 #31
I suspect she will move right... actslikeacarrot Mar 2016 #34
I've been bothered by her willingness to compromise abortion rights. Vinca Mar 2016 #36
I hope she moves back more towards Obama's position on free trade. Nye Bevan Mar 2016 #43
("moving to 'the center'" is the same thing as moving hard to the right, btw). rock Mar 2016 #44
'without any foundation' -- except her WHOLE LIFE pdsimdars Mar 2016 #48
Or even because, you know, the universe! rock Mar 2016 #52
That's not how presidential elections work, rock. There's plenty of foundation for what you DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2016 #61
It's possible what you say rock Mar 2016 #62
She is probably already to the right of Trump on interventionist war. Vattel Mar 2016 #45
We have always been at war with Eastasia ibegurpard Mar 2016 #49
She's already hard to the right on some key issues. Broward Mar 2016 #54
As long as she keeps her word on 45,897 positions I will tolerate her changing hrmjustin Mar 2016 #59
The only saving grace to a Hillary presidency forjusticethunders Mar 2016 #71
Since you have already answered all your wildeyed Mar 2016 #72
have you stopped beating your wife? La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2016 #73
None AgingAmerican Mar 2016 #79
As many as it takes. frylock Mar 2016 #83
I read right here that it's okay for a politician to lie to get elected or say things they don't cherokeeprogressive Mar 2016 #87
I expect her to be left of Obama, and appoint SC judges like Ginsburg. bettyellen Mar 2016 #89
Beings Obama said he would be a moderate Republican Go Vols Mar 2016 #97
I remember that was one of Manny's favorite anti-Obama mantras. bettyellen Mar 2016 #98
This message was self-deleted by its author PonyUp Mar 2016 #95
Hillary has never been hard right on anything MaggieD Mar 2016 #100
K N R-ed Faux pas Mar 2016 #102
There is a big difference between the two candidates and that is why a big difference bkkyosemite Mar 2016 #103
What about Obama?He ran as a progressive and INdemo Mar 2016 #104
Going to be tricky. HassleCat Mar 2016 #106

mindwalker_i

(4,407 posts)
7. It's a matter of faith
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 10:49 PM
Mar 2016

To them, it's a religious thing: they support whoever has the (D) regardless of the positions of that person. Take, for example, the common issue they have with Bernie - he's not a (The) democrat. Like religion, it leads them to support the person who's going to screw them.

I have to admit that they try to find issues and to say there are some principles behind why they don't like Bernie, but at best, it's motivated reasoning. The best example is when Bernie says something about Hillary's record and they call it sexist. Or that he's going negative (because he's sexist). Or he'll never get anything past congress. Hillary will? Well she might - right-wing agenda items. Tax cuts.

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
60. Good god - ain't that the truth
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:12 PM
Mar 2016

Obama has been governing to the Right of this. Hillary wants to keep doing that she says.


mindwalker_i

(4,407 posts)
65. This primary is showing the huge divide between the two groups
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:40 PM
Mar 2016

here on DU - those who *think* about issues and the candidates' positions on those issues vs. those who just believe in the (D). Instructional, although irritating

LeFleur1

(1,197 posts)
66. NO.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:41 PM
Mar 2016

I realize you just disregard anything you haven't made up, but I'll try again.

1. It isn't that Bernie is not THE Democrat that bugs me. It's that he was never a Democrat, spoke against the Democratic Party often for a very very long time, THEN when he needed that corporate money the Democratic party gives out to their candidates for campaigns he suddenly became a Democrat. Some of that money comes from Corporate America, by the way. He touts his private givers, refusing to admit that people give small donations to Hillary, too. Seems disingenuous.
2. He says he wants to run a clean campaign, but at every turn he (or his 'volunteers') dig up votes they can twist to attack Hillary. THEN he has the audacity to go on TV and say she is picking things out of votes that make him look bad. Disingenuous.
3. His speeches disregard the Congress. What he wants will not magically come to pass, unless he intends to somehow do away with the Congress. You have to work with the Congress. You cannot wave a magic wand, and he well knows it. If his ideas were easy to pass they would have become laws by now. He's been a Senator a very long time.
4.He has not scolded his young followers for staying home last election and allowing the sad state of House and Senate to come to pass because they were too busy to vote.
5. He has no experience in foreign affairs, a very large part of the President's job, and he doesn't seem to have the personality to deal with heads of state who do not agree with him. It seems that negotiation isn't a strong point with him.
I'm supporting Hillary because I've been watching her since before her husband was elected and I know what is important to her and how she feels about the people in this country. I know how the Republican think tanks (misnomer) have smeared her and I know that some of it has stuck. Mostly bad things have stuck because there are those who are too lazy to find out the real stories, or it is a good excuse not to support her. It would be a good thing if you could just continue to support your candidate by explaining how his visions would come to pass, and stop lying about Hillary.

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
67. When Berni spoke agains the Democratic Party
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:46 PM
Mar 2016

it was to stop the corporate selling out and slide to the REich that has been going on. It was to bring the democratic party back to FDR - Where IT Belongs

mindwalker_i

(4,407 posts)
68. Let me take these one at a time...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 01:10 PM
Mar 2016

1: He's more of a democrat in terms of the things he talks about and fights for than most of the democratic party. A better way to look at this is that he has the ideals that I have and that I think we need now more than ever, whether one chooses to label those as "democratic" or not. The reasons he's running as a democrat is that third parties have no chance in this country at all since both parties have worked very hard to cut them out, and running as a third party is to be Nader at the most.

2. There's been a very clear tendency for Hillary supporters to label talking about Hillary's record as being negative. This is motivated reasoning.

3. I'd rather have someone push for things that are good even if we can't have them now. The strategy of the democrats has been, for too long, to say we can't have something and start the conversation by asking for very little and giving up even that to get something passed. Hillary is already in the pocket of big money so yeah, she might get things passed, but they are things we don't want passed!

4. Yeah, scolding one's followers is a great idea! Maybe you should look at the "platform" of the democratic party and why it isn't inspiring.

5. No experience? Versus having a very bad record? The Iraq war is the single, most important example of what Hillary's "experience" has done for us.


It would be a good thing if you could just continue to support your candidate by explaining how his visions would come to pass, and stop lying about Hillary.


In order to get things to happen in this country, one needs to build movements. The republicans did it over decades to get all the tax breaks and other laws passed to help rich people, so to turn it back, we need to build a movement. Actually stating what we want to happen rather than starting negotiations at what republicans want would be a good start.

As for lying about Hillary, was her Iraq war vote a lie? She and her followers put out this image of her - how she "gets things done" and "that she's a liberal," but without evidence. It seems to me you're lying to yourself about her and getting angry at the rest of us for not joining you in your illusion.

LeFleur1

(1,197 posts)
69. Illusion
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 01:50 PM
Mar 2016

Ha ha. Bernie supporters know all about illusion.

So you are blaming Hillary for the Iraq war? That's exactly the type of thing I mean. Hillary wasn't the only one to believe Powell and vote to go into Iraq. It was a mistake. I do believe Bernie has made some mistakes, too, although he manages to sluff them off and pretend he is perfect. Hillary has much foreign experience. Bernie does not. You can diminish it if it makes you feel more secure in your support for Bernie, but foreign experience in today's day and age, with all the global problems is a very big deal. Experience has a better chance of keeping us out of war than getting us into one.

Talking about Hillary's record is fair, if the information is correct. Bernie picks and chooses, twists, then when faced with some of his own questionable votes he says the bill had bad things, or good things, and that explains his vote. It explains hers, too, but he won't admit that. He began this distortion of votes and now he doesn't like his votes being outed. He says he doesn't attack Hillary, but he does every day on television news, in his passive aggressive manner.

I'm not sure what strategy of Democrats you are pointing out that is terrible. Obama has moved the country forward in spite of the obstruction in Congress. Certainly Johnson moved the country away from racism, not totally, but certainly steps in the right direction. There are other laws put in place during Democratic administrations that have moved the country forward. Women's issues have come to the forefront in Democratic administrations.

The Supreme Court okayed the funding of campaigns. It takes an amendment to the Constitution now, I believe. Why hasn't Bernie done it? He is taking filtered (through the Democratic Party) corporate money, even if he is pretending not to. What other reason was there for suddenly, after twenty years, joining the Party?

The health care bill we have now could not have happened at all if it had been single payer. Build on it.

Your support for Bernie is fine as long as your eyes are open. My eyes have been open for a long long time. There are things about the party that I don't like, and have worked to change. I do know that bills aren't passed because the President says to pass them. If a President can work with others to negotiate the best deal possible it is a plus. Our government is not a dictatorship.

I'll vote for Bernie if he is the nominee. He would be better than the hideous group the Republicans are running. But. after careful investigation and consideration, I don't think he would be the best President for our times.





mindwalker_i

(4,407 posts)
70. "I'm not sure what strategy of Democrats you are pointing out that is terrible"
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 02:56 PM
Mar 2016

I was very clear on that. Democrats ask for little and are "negotiated" to even less. Bernie is "asking" for a lot - which really shouldn't be a lot to ask for - like reigning in banks/wall street, raising the minimum wage, etc. Will he get it? Probably not but lets start the conversation saying what we want. Hillary has said she'll reign in wall street which is a steaming pile of bullshit. She's just talking about it because voters like the idea, but this will not translate into action. In terms of minimum wage, she also followed Sanders because, again, there were voters who like the idea and she wanted them. Then Hillary said, "Well, maybe $12/hour." She wouldn't push for that either.

Obama has done a lot of good things, but there have been some serious places where he hasn't even tried. For example, letting the banks off with the whole mortgage mess is huge, and not even investigating wall street "shenanigans" has damaged the country severely. He's taken domestic spying further than Bush did. A lot of the people who support Hillary were furious at Snowden for making this information available, pretty much because it made a Democrat (D) look bad. Being willing to criticize one's own group is absolutely essential to making progress.

The core issue the country is facing is that people with money get away with breaking the law, and politicians of both parties feed their greed. That has fed the income inequality for decades if not longer. When people can't feed their families, they are forced to take more drastic measures which often result in countries being destroyed. That is a really unpleasant process, but it might prove necessary. Hillary will continue the status quo, making this worse. Sanders will at least try to change the direction.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
78. "He has not scolded his young followers for staying home last election"
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 04:13 PM
Mar 2016

In what universe is this acceptable behavior? It's a free country.

I prefer getting people motivated to vote -- studies show that when people vote as young persons, they continue to vote.

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
101. Are you Republican? Because this makes it sound like you are.
Mon Mar 21, 2016, 01:40 PM
Mar 2016
"But it seems today the only way to get them motivated is to promise something free."
 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
20. They don't care about issues at all. They like to be on the side of Big Money.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:32 AM
Mar 2016

We knew them in the school yard as they always hid behind the biggest bully.

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
84. You really don't care about whether or not what you say is true at all, do you?
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 04:26 PM
Mar 2016

A lot of what Sanders supporters say, why obviously untrue, is clearly honest mistakes rather than lying.

But a statement like this can't be an honest mistake, I don't think. At best, it's cognitive bias so extreme as to lead to total indifference to the evidence for or against your statement.

Chichiri

(4,667 posts)
8. None. Which is why I hope you'll stick around for her Presidency . . .
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 10:51 PM
Mar 2016

. . . and work with me, and the rest of us, to make it clear that we want her to continue to evolve and progress. The more voices there are saying that, and the more unified they are, the better.

HDSam

(251 posts)
15. It's interesting
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 11:46 PM
Mar 2016

you'd ask people to vote for the candidate you yourself admit we'd need to push to "evolve" rather than vote for a candidate that already espouses virtually all of the ideals we support.

Tell me again why I, or anyone for that matter, should vote for Clinton based on the chance she'll evolve when we have a once-in-a-generation candidate from whom Clinton is borrowing any number of proposals from.

I'm all ears...

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
35. Finally a Hillary supporter I can agree with on something...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:28 AM
Mar 2016

if she's the nominee, she doesn't have the room to moderate in GE on anything...she needs progressives and even with the nomination, she doesn't have them locked-up and will have to make concessions towards them and away from moderating in the GE.

 

revbones

(3,660 posts)
77. She's got plenty of room if she's the nominee.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 04:12 PM
Mar 2016

She'll drift right under the guise that she wants to capture republicans that don't want Trump with the assumption that the sheep in the Democratic party will still support her.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
90. She'll lose if she does.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 04:45 PM
Mar 2016

It only takes about 20% of the current Sanders support to vote against her or simply not vote at-all for her to lose.

She's going to have to engage those people, not assume they're in the fold.

Certainly there are some things she can moderate on...but there's just as much that she can't or might have to move further from the center on.

 

revbones

(3,660 posts)
91. We'll see what happens then if she's the nominee.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 04:49 PM
Mar 2016

She isn't progressive, left or liberal. She naturally gravitates toward corporate interests and where the wind is blowing socially (if advantageous to her).

My guess is she'll pull to the right and forget all the leftward promises she made to supposedly capture independents and republicans that don't want Trump. She'll also govern if elected from a much further rightward stance as well - which can easily be see from her own history.

haikugal

(6,476 posts)
105. There is no center as the term is used currently.
Mon Mar 21, 2016, 01:49 PM
Mar 2016

We are a center left country that has been drug far to the right with lesser evil candidates to the point that we have Reagan democrats as president etc.

Clinton is not a democrat, she's a republican in every way that matters.

Bernie is the democrat.

Unbelievable...

This is not an attack on you just in response to the constant use of the term 'center' when there isn't one.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
75. Oh, god... where have I heard that before.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 04:09 PM
Mar 2016

Unfortunately, I know what that attitude actually equates to, post-election.

If Hillary manages to win both the nomination and the general election, her supporters will be demanding everyone vociferously support her in everything she does. They'll say it's all a complicated process we aren't privy to, and she's only baiting the Republicans into doing this or that. And when she passes right-wing policy, they'll blame critics on the left for failing to push her hard enough.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
9. If they cared at all about issues, they wouldn't support Hillary to begin with
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 10:58 PM
Mar 2016

They don't care about her far right ideology, her constant flip flopping, or the mountains of evidence of her corruption.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
41. Bernie and Hillary agree on most issues
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:43 AM
Mar 2016

Seems to be something people lose sight of here.

Go on Ted Cruz's website and read his positions on issues if you want to see what a far right ideology looks like.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
47. Wow! I got a bridge for sale. . ..
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:34 AM
Mar 2016

No they don't. The only reason they SOUND alike AT THE CURRENT TIME, is that Hillary realizes that Bernie's message is popular so she adopted his words. But she is a conservative and has been most of her life. Judge by their actions and not by their words.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
63. Bernie and Hillary voted the same way in the Senate over 90 percent of the time
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:27 PM
Mar 2016

They were in agreement on just about everything during their nearly three years serving together as US Senators.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
80. .
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 04:19 PM
Mar 2016

* Bernie did not vote against the Iraq War, which I think you would agree is a major vote. Hillary did.

* Bernie did not vote to make flag burning a criminal offense, which I hope you would agree is a major affront to the 1st amendment. Hillary did.

* Bernie did not vote for the Patriot Act, which has featured heavily in expanding the surveillance state directed at Americans. Hillary did.

Of course, I am sure they voted similarly on 90 procedural motions, so that means they agree 50% of the time. right? Do you understand that some votes are more important than others, and that they tend to be rarer as well?

TheFarseer

(9,308 posts)
82. Probably because about 90% of votes
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 04:24 PM
Mar 2016

Are to rename a post office or something. You can rapidly compile a list of important votes that were different on major issues and I would but I'm watching basketball.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
93. "You can rapidly compile a list of important votes that were different on major issues"
Mon Mar 21, 2016, 09:04 AM
Mar 2016

That's definitely not true. No such list exists, nor could one be compiled.

In fact, there was probably only one major vote where the disagreed and that was on TARP.

By the way, some incredible basketball games this past weekend!

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
85. That doesn't mean Hillary and Sanders agree on 90% of the issues.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 04:30 PM
Mar 2016

It means that Sanders consistently supported Democratic legislation.

For example, he voted yes on the Affordable Care Act, but it was not the plan he would've put forward.

The voting differences they do have are the big issues, too.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
94. True, but they generally are on the same side against the Republicans
Mon Mar 21, 2016, 09:05 AM
Mar 2016

That's really all I wanted to point out.

To quote Senator Sanders: "I happen to respect the secretary very much, I hope it’s mutual. And on our worst days, I think it is fair to say we are 100 times better than any Republican candidate.”

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
55. "Issues" can be a smokescreen -- the real Issue is breaking up the matrix of Money and Power
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:53 AM
Mar 2016

The problem is that many of the "issues" are just snipping at the edges.

On almost every issue, the matrix of money and power is the real problem. I could give many examples of specifics, but the point is that Clinton has no intention of tackling that matrix. Instead she benefits from it as do most politicians of eitehr party.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
64. That is definitely an important issue
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:29 PM
Mar 2016

And one of the things that make Bernie such an exceptional candidate. Hopefully he will continue to push for serious campaign finance reform either as our president or in the senate and will eventually be successful in those efforts. Hillary would do well to get on board either way.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
32. Iraq Vote is the really obvious example. Recently she staked out the 'Reagan was an AIDS hero'
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:04 AM
Mar 2016

ground which is about as right wing as bullshit can get. I have sat in the room while she cried with a woman whose child died, the woman saying 'Ronald Reagan killed him' and yet this last week your candidate apparently forgot all of that, things she has seen, reacted to and known. Or more to the point, she abandoned the truth in hopes of pandering to Reagan Democrats who are very obviously her base. War, anti gay, Reagan was God. That's the right.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
81. She voted to make flag burning a criminal offense.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 04:21 PM
Mar 2016

She voted for the PATRIOT act.

That's pretty far-right.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
86. You got several responses.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 04:34 PM
Mar 2016

I take it you're acknowledging the fact that she's moved to the right after elections.

 

silvershadow

(10,336 posts)
13. as a fifty-year member of the labor wing of the Democratic Party
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 11:02 PM
Mar 2016

as a fifty-year member of the labor wing of the Democratic Party she already is hard right.

 

John Poet

(2,510 posts)
14. Hillary is ALREADY Hard Right.
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 11:07 PM
Mar 2016

How much more hard right can she go, without turning into a complete fucking Nazi?

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
88. Who can't even secure a fraction of the votes in the loony GOP primary.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 04:38 PM
Mar 2016

Sorry, you might as well be citing a YouTube celebrity.

Hillary is solidly right-wing in her actual (non election time) policy positions.

haikugal

(6,476 posts)
107. She's also affiliated with the dominionists...The Family...a good read, very informative.
Mon Mar 21, 2016, 01:57 PM
Mar 2016

Too far down the memory hole?

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
16. I read tonight because she favors expanding ACA to single payer she moved hard right
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 11:51 PM
Mar 2016

If that is your argument, you fail.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
22. So? Regardless of her reasoning, I read today because she favors expanding ACA she was pulled hard
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:40 AM
Mar 2016

right.

If that is the argument of her being hard right, it is a failed argument.

24. She did, and if you saw the video it was clear that...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 01:07 AM
Mar 2016

...it wouldn't happen if she had anything to say about it!

She projected pure fury.

Now do you think for one second I care that she may have said something different this week?

Gosh, are there people who actually believe Hillary each and every time she changes her mind?

HRC will do anything to get elected, including co-opt anything Senator Sanders supports that will help her.

And then (if she actually managed to win the GE, which I don't think she stands a chance of) she'll drop it all like a hot potato the minute the election is over.

Her ONLY interest in We The People is our pesky votes.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
26. Wait, what?
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 04:55 AM
Mar 2016
She favors expanding ACA to single payer


There's been a severe weed shortage in my life so i'm absolutely certain I'm reading you correctly there... are you sure that what you write is correct? 'cause last i heard is what the others are saying. "NEVER EVER EVER GOING TO HAPPEN!"
 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
57. Ha. I was wondering what was up. She prefers expanding ACA to (rather than) adopting a single payer.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:06 PM
Mar 2016
 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
33. Today- Hillary Clinton: Single-payer health care will "never, ever" happen.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:09 AM
Mar 2016

1994- Hillary Clinton
"If, for whatever reason, the Congress doesn't pass health care reform, I believe, and I may be to totally off base on this, but I believe that by the year 2000 we will have a single payer system. I don't even think it's a close call politically. I think the momentum for a single payer system will sweep the country... It will be such a huge popular issue... that even if it's not successful the first time, it will eventually be. "


That's a move from 'it is inevitable' to 'it is impossible' and that's a move away from single payer and to the right.

It's all easy to find:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillary-clinton-single-payer-health-care-will-never-ever-happen/

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
37. I'm glad I didn't see it...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:33 AM
Mar 2016

I think reading such a thing might cause me to stroke out on the floor.

It's like that Lewis Black bit where he's convinced that years from now, having overheard the comment "If it wasn't for my horse, I'd never have spent that year in college." he's going to drop dead as a result of that memory and his inability to comprehend it making a blood vessel in his head explode.

Accuse a Democratic candidate of being a right-winger on the basis of something she doesn't believe in (as far as I know, she's still anti-single-payer) and which is a goal of progressives in this party.

I got nothin'.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
38. I remember the 1990s...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:35 AM
Mar 2016

it's why I despise the Clintons.

I became a political scientist explicitly to drive them and their supporters out of the Democratic party before they could do more damage to Democratic constituencies and ideals.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
50. exactly
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:46 AM
Mar 2016

And the bill for Clinton's policies has come due and it's far worse than what we dreamed back then. Telecommunications dereg for one...

 

Gwhittey

(1,377 posts)
40. I rember the 90s
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:40 AM
Mar 2016

I was in Iraq and Somalia during this time. So you and other Hillbats should really stop with bullshit in calling us kids and shit. I fought in a war and should not have to defend my age to any idiot like you.

Sky Masterson

(5,240 posts)
28. All of them
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 05:00 AM
Mar 2016

Because its her turn.
And she is going to make America great again!
Just like President Kerry and President Gore did.

PatrickforO

(14,514 posts)
29. Well, I want single payer healthcare, and Social Security to be strong
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 05:05 AM
Mar 2016

I am all for removing the payroll tax cap on Social Security because I've paid in full-boat for over 40 years now and when it's time IT HAD BETTER BE THERE FOR ME BECAUSE I NEED IT.

And I really don't want her to 'pivot' right on TPP or TTIP - those pieces of 'free trade' shit will effectively end nation states as we know them and turn over governance to people who are all about human greed rather than human need. Seriously, if we hate America and everything it stands for, then these will end whatever little democracy we have left. Pass them and we'll be knee deep in toxic shit - but hey, we'll have low paying jobs!

You know, Bernie is the only one for my voting lifetime who has advocated things for the American people that I actually WANT and CARE ABOUT. Now, the meme is he can't win, but I don't believe that. Just raising these basic kitchen table issues is a winner for the American people. and he still could at least split the convention or even win. Yeah, the window's narrow but he could still win, and I'm supporting him to the end. He represents at least half of the Dem base and many, many independents.

All I have to say is CLINTON BETTER BE DAMNED CAREFUL ABOUT WHICH ISSUES SHE PIVOTS HARD RIGHT ON after this primary because like most Bernie supporters, I've gotten pretty tired of being bought off with just a little social liberalism spooned over a bunch of corporate shit that continues to suck our treasury dry and take away what our tax dollars should actually be paying for, which is a higher quality of life for we the people.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
30. This says it all -
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 05:10 AM
Mar 2016
I've gotten pretty tired of being bought off with just a little social liberalism spooned over a bunch of corporate shit that continues to suck our treasury dry and take away what our tax dollars should actually be paying for, which is a higher quality of life for we the people.


and that is what would most certainly happen.

Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

actslikeacarrot

(464 posts)
34. I suspect she will move right...
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:10 AM
Mar 2016

...on free trade and foreign policy. I fully suspect of she wins the presidency she will sign the tpp. Also she has never met an overseas adventure she didn't like. None of this is ok with me but its out of my hands.

Vinca

(50,168 posts)
36. I've been bothered by her willingness to compromise abortion rights.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:30 AM
Mar 2016

She sounds open to placing more restrictions on them. We have enough Republican gynecologists, we don't need Democrats playing doctor, too.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
43. I hope she moves back more towards Obama's position on free trade.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:15 AM
Mar 2016

Also I would like her to moderate her opposition to Citizens United, and adopt a position akin to the ACLU on this issue.

rock

(13,218 posts)
44. ("moving to 'the center'" is the same thing as moving hard to the right, btw).
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:26 AM
Mar 2016

Glad you admit she is to the left. To answer your question: I don't buy your presupposition that she will move to the right. This just sounds like speculation (without any foundation) to me. The overall structuring of your questions implies a way too simply grasp on the nuances of politics.

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
61. That's not how presidential elections work, rock. There's plenty of foundation for what you
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:17 PM
Mar 2016

have called speculation. ALL presidential candidates move toward the other party when they've clinched their party's nomination. In Hillary's case, she's starting way too far off to the right.

Broward

(1,976 posts)
54. She's already hard to the right on some key issues.
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:51 AM
Mar 2016

Moreover, she's a deceptive and immoral politician (see Iraq War). I guess that's what some Dems are looking for in a politician.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
59. As long as she keeps her word on 45,897 positions I will tolerate her changing
Sat Mar 19, 2016, 12:12 PM
Mar 2016

23,845 of her other positions.

I hope that clears that up.

 

forjusticethunders

(1,151 posts)
71. The only saving grace to a Hillary presidency
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 03:11 PM
Mar 2016

is that she NEEDS the left-wing Obama coalition to win, trying to get crypto-racist white people to vote for her 2008 style is a losing strategy, so she can't triangulate to the right like Willy did in the 90s. If anything, she has to triangulate to the left to ensure that her coalition turns out for her.

wildeyed

(11,240 posts)
72. Since you have already answered all your
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 03:37 PM
Mar 2016

own loaded questions, I don't need to

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/loaded-question

My turn:

If you support Bernie Sanders, don't you feel ashamed that your candidate, the supposed "candidate of the people", is attempting to undermine the popular vote by influencing superdelegates?

Wouldn't you agree that this seem like a really cynical, political move by a candidate so desperate to win that he will pull any dirty trick in the book?

If nothing else, wouldn't you agree that using the supers to overturn the popular choice of the people is anti-democratic and we should never, under any circumstances, condone that behavior?

(Insert obligatory whine about how no one is answering a bunch of completely loaded and unfairly worded questions here.)



OK, you go again.... BTW, we don't have to stick with loaded questions. You can pivot or false choice or false premise. Those seem really popular too. Or do a gish gallop. Those are fun!

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
87. I read right here that it's okay for a politician to lie to get elected or say things they don't
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 04:35 PM
Mar 2016

intend to pursue after the election. I read right here at DU that no one can affect change WITHOUT winning an election so campaign dishonesty is completely OK. It's expected even.

I'm sure MOST of the Clinton supporters will be able to rationalize Hillary's post-election persona with little or no squirm whatsoever.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
89. I expect her to be left of Obama, and appoint SC judges like Ginsburg.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 04:42 PM
Mar 2016

I don't buy into your fears.

Go Vols

(5,902 posts)
97. Beings Obama said he would be a moderate Republican
Mon Mar 21, 2016, 09:35 AM
Mar 2016

if this were the '80s,I hope she is to the left of him if she wins.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
98. I remember that was one of Manny's favorite anti-Obama mantras.
Mon Mar 21, 2016, 01:25 PM
Mar 2016

Interesting. I think Obama and Clinton are responsible for the best SC justice appointments in the last thirty years. Do you disagree for some reason?

Response to Ken Burch (Original post)

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
100. Hillary has never been hard right on anything
Mon Mar 21, 2016, 01:37 PM
Mar 2016

This is a site dedicated to supporting Democrats. Please be respectful of that and find a more appropriate venue to attack Democrats.

INdemo

(6,994 posts)
104. What about Obama?He ran as a progressive and
Mon Mar 21, 2016, 01:45 PM
Mar 2016

didn't waste any time moving to the right (even before he took his oath) and appointing right wingers to his cabinet and even keeping some left overs.

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
106. Going to be tricky.
Mon Mar 21, 2016, 01:51 PM
Mar 2016

Trump will certainly try to position himself to Clinton's left on at least one issue, perhaps campaign finance reform. I don't know. It will be something unexpected because surprise is a big weapon for him. Abortion? Trump doesn't give a hoot about the religious right, so maybe he'll go all libertarian on abortion. Legalizing recreational hemp? Or at least taking it off the federal schedule of the most dangerous drugs. What he will probably do is look for an issue where he sees Clinton moving quickly and assertively to the right, then occupy whatever niche she creates.

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