I think we need to face facts regarding Bernie as a candidate

[forjusticethunders]

I believe Bernie is a superior candidate on policy to Hillary Clinton. I believe his economic platform has a broad appeal to every single working-class American. I think America needs to move to the left and fast (people don't realize how right-wing our political scene until you start looking overseas).

But elections are about winning, and winning is, not just about policy (sadly), but about tone, communication, packaging and messaging. Bernie Sanders is terrible at this stuff. It's his policy and platform that is driving the enthusiasm, not the candidate himself. Run Obama with Bernie's platform and he'd be unstoppable because Obama is a communicator and Bernie is not. I'm not a voter who is really concerned with tone but even I'm having a weekly cringe moment every week from his campaign. He's just not ready for a national campaign, and there's honestly no excuse.

I honestly think he has a bunch of advisors who are from the Reddit crowd who bitch about "identity politics" and "SJWs" and think he doesn't have to specifically talk to demographic groups because his economic message will carry the day (Tad Devine just seems like the kind of guy who's posting on Reddit about how SJWs are oppressing him). And hey, you can think that, I think class is the big driver of everything wrong in American society, but that doesn't mean you don't have to speak to the specific concerns of groups, talk to them in their communities, learn about them. I think stuff like representation is sometimes overblown, but it does matter, and even when Bernie looked strong on these issues, it was always reactive, not proactive. Either way, he's not communicating well, and he's either not tweaking his message or he's flailing while trying to tweak it.

I hope future progressive campaigns learn from this. You can sell a progressive economic platform, but not the way Bernie has done. I still hope he wins, but his severe shortcomings as a candidate have become more and more apparent as the process has gone along.

[Kalidurga]

1. Cool story

[Buzz Clik]

9. -1

Bernie is losing big time. Face it.

The OP is far more than a "cool story," and it's time for some introspection.

[Kalidurga]

13. Show me the rest of Hillary's big wins

and back atcha

[Buzz Clik]

17. As they say in sports, "Look at the scoreboard."

[Kalidurga]

18. No one says that who goes on to win.

[Buzz Clik]

22. They ONLY say that when the game is over but there's still time on the clock.

Check the scoreboard. This is over.

[Kalidurga]

41. I see you still haven't any idea where Hillary is going to pull big wins.

She needs more than 30+ in states where she is projected to win. Plus she needs to not lose badly in the more progressive states. And she has to hold onto every single Super delegate.

[Gore1FL]

68. Pete fucking Kozma

[Lizzie Poppet]

21. Anyone who says that before the game's over doesn't get sports

Or elections...

[Buzz Clik]

26. Play a lot of ball did you, Lizzie?

don't bother... we know the answer.

[Lizzie Poppet]

32. Former Cat 1 bike racer. You?

This should be good...

[Buzz Clik]

34. No scoreboards in bike racing.

Thanks for playing


.... and bump....

[Lizzie Poppet]

40. LOL. You've quite obviously never been to a bicycle race.

Pure comedy gold.

Also played soccer (through college, but not Div I), field hockey (through HS) and am currently a ranked long-range rifle competitor (although you may think of that as more of a game than a sport...or just wring your hands because icky guns). Season ticket holder for Timbers/Thorns/T2 soccer here in Portland.


Let me guess: you have a copy of FIFA and Madden Football for your Playstation...and sometimes shoot baskets in your neighbor's driveway, right?

[pangaia]

53. YIKERS!!!!!!!!!

[Scootaloo]

79. Allow me to draw your attention...

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you your national champion. Griffin Easter ran an amazing race under the lights to take home the nationals jersey in one of the most hotly contested races yet. During the course of his race, Griffin lapped the entire field and captured points in every single sprint lap.

The FLC women also put forth a strong effort under the lights, ending with a spectacular showdown as Sarah Sturm outsprinted the pack to cross the finish line first.
http://cycling.fortlewis.edu/2012/09/21/griffin-easter-is-a-national-champion/

[LondonReign2]

103. My, don't you look stupid now?

[polly7]

36. I'm pretty sure Lizzie doesn't play sleazeball. nt.

[Katashi_itto]

54. A Madden Football Pro speaks.

[JRLeft]

69. ^ This, he is way behind.

[beedle]

70. Spoken with the confidence

Of someone who knows the game has been rigged!

[dchill]

84. -911

You are so scared I can smell it. Over the intertubes!

[Mufaddal]

38. My reaction as well

[Octafish]

102. The more people get to know her, the more they get to know her.

Which after a while is all right, but, that is it.

[MrMickeysMom]

2. I'm pretty sure you're alone in this theory...

I have no problem in his communications skills. The vast evidence is in front of him at every stop along the campaign.

I also don't think his advisors are limited as you suggest. In fact, your whole post smells like 3-day old fish.

[Buzz Clik]

12. ... and that's why he's winning.

[MrMickeysMom]

49. Do you have an answer now?

You know, from the other rude comment you ran away from so that you could respond here for someone else...

Stay classy!

[Gwhittey]

93. "It depends on what the meaning of the words 'communications skills' is.

See you think "communications skills" means what is written in a Merriam-Webster dictionary. But in fact from the Clinton-Rove dictionary published in 2000, you would see that words mean


"communications skills" noun) the art of saying an intentionally false statement in order to win a debate/election

[LonePirate]

3. Wait a minute. There's a difference between the Reddit crowd and SJWs? Who knew?

I definitely agree that Obama with Bernie's platform would be unstoppable.

If the unthinkable happens and we lose in 2016, our candidate in 2020 will undoubtedly run on Bernie's platform, if not moving it even further to the left.

[gcomeau]

4. Yeeeeeeah...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/bernie-sanders-polls-better-against-trump-than-hillary-clinton_b_9390892.html


He's clearly having a terrible time with that whole General election match-up winning thing.



(Higher numbers than your opponent are WORSE right? That's why we should want Clinton? )

[firebrand80]

5. This has been clear from the beginning

Many Bernie supporters chose to bury their heads in the sand, convincing themselves that because they liked him that none of that stuff was important.

[Number23]

80. Absolutely. And the comment in the OP that Sanders campaign seems to be run by members of the

Reddit crowd whining about SJW's and "identity politics" is absolutely fucking brilliant. Like you said, some folks convinced themselves that because THEY don't think race, gender, sexual orientation etc. are important, that everyone else would feel the same. And we see how that's working out for the senator.

Without a doubt, the Sanders campaign is one of the most bizarrely run campaigns I have ever seen. I think it will be taught in universities.

[ljm2002]

97. I agree with one thing you said here...

...to wit: "I think it will be taught in universities."

I agree. First and foremost it will be taught as the beginning of a paradigm shift, where a candidate figures how to make use of the Internet and take a "crowd-funding" approach to campaign finance. It will be taught as a new wave of direct participatory democracy.

Other than that, I think you and the OP are full of... "it".

[Number23]

100. Yeah, it will be taught. As how NOT to run campaign.

Obama wrote the book on using the Internet to broaden his coalition, and didn't have to improperly access anyone's records to do that. That's what will be taught as a good thing. Sanders supporters use the Internet to chase down and harass every single person that doesn't think their candidate spouts gospel and is covered in gold. And most of those people are women and minorities. That's what will be taught, and it ain't good.

Other than that, I think you and the OP are full of... "it".

If I knew who you were or gave the first shit, your second grade insult would wound me to the core.

[zalinda]

6. I can't speak for all Bernie supporters

but, I'm not voting for a candidate, I'm voting for the issues. I couldn't stand the cult of Obama back in '08. The way they talked he basically walked on water.

Bernie, on the other hand, is talking about issues that I care about. He is not saying that he will do anything, but that he will try to do so and so. He's honest about the situation in this country. He wins because he has integrity, not because he is a 'personality'. We are not Trump supporters, we care about this country.

Z

[GreatGazoo]

7. You may claim he is "terrible" but professionals disagree, strongly.

Here are the top-ranked 2016 presidential campaign ads as determined by Ace Metrix:

Mixed Field

"Social Security," Bernie 2016. Ace Score: 550
"Real Change (Revised)," Bernie 2016. Ace Score: 532
"Works For Us All," Bernie 2016. Ace Score: 523
"Mari," Bernie 2016. Ace Score: 519
"We The People," Carson America. Ace Score: 517
"Real Change," Bernie 2016. Ace Score: 514
"Working Families," Bernie 2016. Ace Score: 512
"Never Quit," Draft Biden. Ace Score: 512
"America: Never Give Up," Kasich for America. Ace Score: 508
"The Bottom 100 Million," Bernie 2016. Ace Score: 504

Read more at http://www.campaignlive.com/article/bernie-sanders-effective-political-ads-2016-presidential-race/1379312#ERqQkjbFVedWeruX.99

http://www.campaignlive.com/article/bernie-sanders-effective-political-ads-2016-presidential-race/1379312

Highest scoring ads across the board. And what's in those ads...(?)..just Bernie being Bernie:

[Mnpaul]

90. Record fundraising

shows his communication skills are poor?

Only in the Hillary bubble

[John Poet]

8. Bernie is too nice.

He should have gone full-on negative against Hillary a long time ago, commercials and all, with some of these facts about Hillary which we Bernie-backers find repulsive, and most other decent people would also.


THAT is my problem with Bernie 'not being a great communicator'.

[nc4bo]

10. Thanks for your concern.

[BernieforPres2016]

11. I give you an F on that one, Hillary troll

And now you're in the Ignore box.

[Buzz Clik]

15. Calling the poster a troll (violation, but no DU jury would ever support it), put on ignore.

Typical.

[Bluenorthwest]

27. What are you, that poster's assigned security?

nt

[Buzz Clik]

29. And look who's intervening on behalf of BernieforPres2016

Was that intentional irony?

[MrMickeysMom]

50. I think I can point out who the poster is...

A baiter....

[H2O Man]

14. I disagree.

[PowerToThePeople]

16. Member since Jan 28, 2016

Trash thread and ignore list for you.

[Buzz Clik]

19. BernieforPres2016 has been here for 2 weeks.

You going after that poster, too?

rhetorical question.

meh.

[PowerToThePeople]

25. If I see troll posts from him.

I recognize your handle too.

Hmmm.

[Buzz Clik]

28. LOL!

pasisve agressive much?

[PowerToThePeople]

30. Speaking of yourself?

[Buzz Clik]

31. "I know you are, but what am I?"

[PowerToThePeople]

33. Done

You are on my ignore list too.

[YCHDT]

20. He stayed in VT too long, he should have gotten around before wanting to be prez. He's not doubt not

... exposed to a diverse groups of people that make up America

[Logical]

23. Lol, thanks for your analysis! Nt

[Bluenorthwest]

24. Hillary used her excellent skills to fully explain that she and her God opposed the very idea of

LGBT equality. That's why I find her candidacy to be symptomatic of everything that is wrong in this Party.

[BainsBane]

35. That's the problem of creating an atmosphere in which any criticism

is explained away as a corporate-Clintonian conspiracy. The candidate doesn't get the advice he needs.

[NurseJackie]

37. Great post. Perceptive and astute.

[Downwinder]

39. Is this the "Oscars"?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

42. Huh. I guess he hasn't won 8 states and tied two others after all. nt

[sadoldgirl]

43. Oh my! His bad communication skills

are the reason for thousands to come to his rallies,

that many indies in my state made sure to register
as democrats,

that millions of people sent him money, etc, etc.

What a terrific interpretation of the facts you give!

So we are supposed to go with the cheating,lying
and disregarding rules candidate?

F A T C H A N C E !!!

[SamKnause]

44. I strongly disagree.

I like his tone.

I like his communication skills.

I like his packaging and messaging.

I like his honesty.

I like his integrity.

I like his solid record on the issues.

I like his ability to get his message across.

I like his sense of humor.

I like his morals.

I like his principles.

I like his vision for this country.

I like his wise judgment.

I like his down to earth quality.


After stating all of this, when I vote for Bernie on the 15th of this month, I will be

voting for the person who best serves my interests, my extended family's best interest,

my friend's best interests, labor's best interests, women's best interests, the poor's best interest

and the interests of the 99% as a whole.


It is just icing on the cake that he is all of the things I admire and respect in a person !!!!

[liberal_at_heart]

45. so is this the meme of the day then? Trashing thread.

[MaggieD]

46. Tad Devine specializes in losing presidential elections

[timmymoff]

99. Isn't Hillary 0-1

in presidential elections?

[TTUBatfan2008]

47. I agree with your criticisms...

...but I would also say that it's very damn difficult to beat the Clinton machine when 95% of the Establishment is against you. Obama did not face this, probably because he was willing to work with the Establishment. That means bankers, party officials, etc. Bernie has not made the friends that he needs to in order to go against the Clintons.

[Maedhros]

48. Yes, candidates who struggle with "tone, communication, packaging and messaging"

routinely pack auditoriums with overflowing crowds of enthusiastic supporters.

[forjusticethunders]

59. They also lose entire demographics by 50 points.

I mean, South Carolina isn't an isolated incident, he's losing black people by 80 points in some states. He's doing a bit better among Hispanics, but he got blown out in Texas among Hispanics. Look, the rallies are great, but he is not connecting with a core Democratic constituency and the way people just brush that off is incredibly myopic to say the least.

And if you've read my posts here, I support Bernie. That's why his issues are so frustrating to me, because I SUPPORT HIM AND HIS PLATFORM.

[Maedhros]

62. Well, he's campaigning in the face of a Clinton propaganda hurricane

that has been relentlessly pushing a racially-divisive meme about Bernie's "problem" with black people. That's difficult, and it's not indicative of some flaw of Bernie's.

The Clinton campaign is peddling tons of bullshit, and many people are lapping it up with a spoon. It's not restricted to any one demographic, but the black vote is getting specific attention.

[tularetom]

51. SJWs? Single Jewish Women? Sturdy Japanese Woodworkers? Soulful Jamaican Winemakers?

How about a translation for the non hipster demographic.

[DebbieCDC]

52. SJW = Social Justice Warrior

[tularetom]

55. Thank you, I googled it

Surprisingly, (or perhaps not so surprisingly) DU seems to be crawling with them at the moment.

[yardwork]

56. I think you're right.

[Vinca]

57. You think Hillary is good at messaging?

She's probably one of the worst political communicators ever. The woman desperately needs a voice coach. You can't scream your platform at people and expect they're going to take to you.

[mhatrw]

64. If the message is "Hate me".

[DefenseLawyer]

88. Ha!

Well played.

[zappaman]

58. Wrong!

[olddots]

60. why don't you just come out and say what you want to say ?

yeah BORING !!!!!!

[lovemydog]

73. You're going to really hate my post below.

It's also long and nuanced. You're free to use it as a sleep aid.

[politicaljunkie41910]

61. Even Obama "the Communicator" couldn't work miracles with an obstructive GOP

in control of the House and Senate. The likelihood that the Dems will take control of the House in Jan 2018 is slim and none due to gerrymandered House districts and there hasn't been a Democratic Revolution show up in Washington in the 40 years I've been voting and I don't think they will miraculously show up in Jan 2018. Paul Ryan is not going to even allow Bernie's socialist agenda to come up for a vote.

[mhatrw]

63. Such total bullshit. You can keep exploiting, persecuting and imprisoning minorities as long as

you grease the palms of their establishment leaders and use culturally sensitive language.

But if you want to level the playing field and end institutional racism, you had better watch yourself because the next arguably culturally insensitive word you say will be used to divide and conquer the 99%.

[Peace Patriot]

82. Thank you, mhatrw! I'm completely disgusted by the racism and sexism cards...

...that Hillary Clinton and her Rove-like campaign are using.

[lumberjack_jeff]

65. If you're voting for a person, and not a set of ideas that the person embodies, you're the problem.

[Gene Debs]

66. You think wrong.

[Bread and Circus]

67. He was supposed to be a 3% fringe candidate, like Dennis Kucinich, now he is at 40%...give the guy..

some damn credit.

He is doing better against Hillary than 99.9% of the rest of the Democratic Party....

Nobody wanted to challenge her (they were afraid) but look what he accomplished!!

[Coincidence]

71. We usually elect the best bullshitter, which Bernie is not. nt

[lovemydog]

72. I hear you.

Representation is essential to winning elections at every level, especially on a nationwide level. We need a paradigm shift. One in which we're talking with people with differing views, forthrightly without being immediately dismissive. Historically, what you're talking about has been an internal struggle among the left for as long as politics has existed. Which voices will be emphasized, which will be heard?

The way forward is more inclusion. I'm confident that it's happening, though it's not always obvious if one only follows the day to day stuff. There will be many things future progressive campaigns can learn. A lot of it will be positive. Some will be negative and will require soul searching if the goal is to build larger national coalitions.

I'm hoping many will continue their involvement with politics and especially broaden it to local levels where day to day interactions can inform and provide sustenance most effectively. It remains to be seen whether it can take root on local levels. The left keeps getting its collective ass kicked in local and state and congressional elections. So many people have grown comfortable being at home and not really getting out there and interacting with different types of people. I think getting out of one's comfort zone and building a strong grassroots movement is essential going forward.

We had a strong Obama coalition and then got trounced in the last mid-terms. Many from that coalition have chosen different candidates this time around. We're going to need a lot of mending fences between Sanders and Clinton supporters if we expect to expand and grow that coalition. That, and perhaps a whole new wave of people who don't hate on one particular progressive candidate or the other.

[dana_b]

74. really?

[AgingAmerican]

75. That is a very shallow argument

A superior candidate who offers sound policy and substantive governance should be rejected? In favor of an inferior, but slick packaged product? This is the argument you are making? It is hard to take that seriously.

[lovemydog]

76. I think you misread that post.

[snowy owl]

77. Yeah, I finally sent handwritten letter . . .

trying to point out some activist and specific things he could be sharing at these debates. But, how long has Hillary been at this? How many speechwriters and advisers are giving her the buzzwords and the slogans? If people were perceptive enough to actually recognize authentic, they would be Bernie supporters. Too much media propaganda, the masses become sheep.

[Scootaloo]

78. Well, it could also be...

That his opponent is exploiting a loophole in SuperpAC regulations, allowing her campaign to coordinate and exchange funds directly with "Correct the Record" a pro-Clinton pac run by a misogynist racist (as you do in the Clinton campaign). Her financial shortfalls are made up through loans to herself (she's worth what now, $31.3 million), donations from the NRA, Shell, and many assorted other major corporate donors. All of whom have majority shares in the five major networks and three media conglomerates that decide our access to information. This network of interconnected and incestuous funding and media ties works as a suppressant to provide a firewall against "undesirable' candidates like sanders and O'Malley, and coordinate your Daily Outrages and two-minute hate against any who break through that barrier (as Sanders has managed.)

Naw.

It couldn't actually be systemic.

...Could it?

[lovemydog]

83. Yes, systemic aspects are significant. However

I think there's other layers to it. The tone of many posts on this thread for example. Essentially saying 'TLDR' or 'we're smart and you're ignorant.' I don't think that helps expand a progressive movement. I think it narrows it to the people who actually believe they're more knowledgeable or well-read than everyone else.

[Scootaloo]

85. And of course these posts exist in a vacuum, separate from all history.

[silvershadow]

81. I assume by "we" you are including those of us who have been here for years and years, unlike

yourself? LOL Karl, is that you?

[MisterP]

86. her votaries include "Tithead" Marcotte and "It's Not a Crime if You're a Girl *Giggle*" Valenti

they use the phrase "situates Bernie's dominance in masculine subcultures and products"

they're GOING to be called SJWs and it's GOING to be accurate

[forjusticethunders]

87. well I sure underestimated how quick Bernie can learn and adapt -_O_-

Much, MUCH, or should I say yuuuuuuugely better outreach in Michigan. Hopefully that can get built on

[Ichingcarpenter]

91. Well at least Hillary supporters liked your post

which tells me something about you and your delusions that history proved you wrong

[FlatBaroque]

89. There are some odious threads like this one where

I take great pleasure in thrashing. Trash and Ignore.

[LWolf]

92. Here's a fact about Bernie as a candidate that every supporter of HRC needs to face:

He's more electable than she is in November.

He's also NOT "terrible at this stuff." His support is steadily increasing.

[Motown_Johnny]

94. Your post is nothing but unsubstantiated opinion.

[ljm2002]

95. If Bernie Sanders is so "terrible at this stuff"...

..then how the heck has he managed to rake in $$$millions$$$ from average everyday Americans such as myself? How the heck has he managed to succeed beyond anyone's expectations in this campaign so far? How the heck did he manage to earn a standing O at the Univision debate -- and remember, this was in Florida, lots of Latinos, lots of Cuban expats who don't like Castro.

Yeah. Bernie is just terrible at this stuff.

[Armstead]

96. Seems to be working

[pinebox]

98. Shortcomings as a candidate? Are you fucking kidding me?

Shortcomings? What is shit like this supposedly to be a gold star in the cap of Hillary something?

Weapons deals.
Under an FBI investigation.
Iraq
TPP
KXL
NAFTA
DOMA
DADT
Voting for a border fence
Calling undocumented people illegal
Calling for deporting children
Egypt
Syria
Libya
Honduras
No universal health care
No living wage
Is open to raising the age on Social Security
Nevada has opened a criminal investigation into her campaign
Is pro outsourcing
Pro death penalty

I can go on and on yet you think what you stated disqualifies Bernie? Are you fucking kidding us?

Here, have a cup of Whisky Tengo Foxtrot.

[thereismore]

101. OK I'm gonna do it. Bye. nt