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Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:16 PM

 

How Bernie Lost the Black Vote Long Before Super Tuesday

http://www.fastcompany.com/3057369/how-bernie-sanders-lost-the-black-vote-long-before-super-tuesday

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Reply How Bernie Lost the Black Vote Long Before Super Tuesday (Original post)
bravenak Mar 2016 OP
Cali_Democrat Mar 2016 #1
bravenak Mar 2016 #6
Live and Learn Mar 2016 #205
bravenak Mar 2016 #208
KitSileya Mar 2016 #223
bravenak Mar 2016 #226
highprincipleswork Mar 2016 #11
whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #49
Bread and Circus Mar 2016 #68
elmac Mar 2016 #101
politicaljunkie41910 Mar 2016 #102
whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #163
ozone_man Mar 2016 #109
DhhD Mar 2016 #136
Live and Learn Mar 2016 #206
countmyvote4real Mar 2016 #231
GeorgeGist Mar 2016 #202
giftedgirl77 Mar 2016 #2
bravenak Mar 2016 #7
giftedgirl77 Mar 2016 #19
bravenak Mar 2016 #22
George II Mar 2016 #249
comradebillyboy Mar 2016 #3
bravenak Mar 2016 #8
rbrnmw Mar 2016 #4
bravenak Mar 2016 #5
Ned_Devine Mar 2016 #81
bravenak Mar 2016 #82
rhett o rick Mar 2016 #9
bravenak Mar 2016 #18
mcar Mar 2016 #39
bravenak Mar 2016 #40
mcar Mar 2016 #41
redstateblues Mar 2016 #105
bravenak Mar 2016 #174
Scalded Nun Mar 2016 #95
rhett o rick Mar 2016 #51
bravenak Mar 2016 #55
rhett o rick Mar 2016 #57
bravenak Mar 2016 #58
Spazito Mar 2016 #10
bravenak Mar 2016 #13
Spazito Mar 2016 #14
guillaumeb Mar 2016 #12
bravenak Mar 2016 #16
guillaumeb Mar 2016 #26
bravenak Mar 2016 #27
Hekate Mar 2016 #150
bravenak Mar 2016 #209
Recursion Mar 2016 #203
guillaumeb Mar 2016 #245
BooScout Mar 2016 #15
bravenak Mar 2016 #21
highprincipleswork Mar 2016 #17
bravenak Mar 2016 #20
highprincipleswork Mar 2016 #62
bravenak Mar 2016 #64
highprincipleswork Mar 2016 #71
bravenak Mar 2016 #74
highprincipleswork Mar 2016 #94
SunSeeker Mar 2016 #23
bravenak Mar 2016 #24
SunSeeker Mar 2016 #25
Agnosticsherbet Mar 2016 #28
bravenak Mar 2016 #29
Agnosticsherbet Mar 2016 #46
bravenak Mar 2016 #50
AtomicKitten Mar 2016 #30
bravenak Mar 2016 #31
alcibiades_mystery Mar 2016 #189
bravenak Mar 2016 #191
AtomicKitten Mar 2016 #213
Chichiri Mar 2016 #219
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GoldenEagle16 Mar 2016 #34
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KingFlorez Mar 2016 #67
Hekate Mar 2016 #154
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Gwhittey Mar 2016 #32
bravenak Mar 2016 #33
AtomicKitten Mar 2016 #42
bravenak Mar 2016 #43
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AgingAmerican Mar 2016 #73
AtomicKitten Mar 2016 #214
Number23 Mar 2016 #224
bravenak Mar 2016 #227
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Number23 Mar 2016 #236
AtomicKitten Mar 2016 #237
Number23 Mar 2016 #238
bravenak Mar 2016 #250
MisterP Mar 2016 #93
spyker29 Mar 2016 #35
bravenak Mar 2016 #37
redstateblues Mar 2016 #111
bravenak Mar 2016 #114
mcar Mar 2016 #36
bravenak Mar 2016 #38
R B Garr Mar 2016 #44
bravenak Mar 2016 #45
Vattel Mar 2016 #52
bravenak Mar 2016 #60
elmac Mar 2016 #107
Hekate Mar 2016 #155
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Mar 2016 #172
noretreatnosurrender Mar 2016 #53
bravenak Mar 2016 #54
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bravenak Mar 2016 #65
noretreatnosurrender Mar 2016 #69
bravenak Mar 2016 #86
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Starry Messenger Mar 2016 #56
bravenak Mar 2016 #59
azurnoir Mar 2016 #61
bravenak Mar 2016 #79
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bravenak Mar 2016 #80
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bravenak Mar 2016 #127
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bravenak Mar 2016 #132
noiretextatique Mar 2016 #72
bravenak Mar 2016 #77
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bravenak Mar 2016 #84
Ken Burch Mar 2016 #75
bravenak Mar 2016 #76
Ken Burch Mar 2016 #91
Hekate Mar 2016 #158
Ken Burch Mar 2016 #161
noiretextatique Mar 2016 #85
polly7 Mar 2016 #197
bravenak Mar 2016 #199
polly7 Mar 2016 #201
Number23 Mar 2016 #225
bravenak Mar 2016 #228
Hekate Mar 2016 #87
bravenak Mar 2016 #106
JohnnyLib2 Mar 2016 #88
bravenak Mar 2016 #113
MrWendel Mar 2016 #96
bravenak Mar 2016 #116
stupidicus Mar 2016 #97
bravenak Mar 2016 #120
stupidicus Mar 2016 #147
bravenak Mar 2016 #148
stupidicus Mar 2016 #160
MisterP Mar 2016 #145
stupidicus Mar 2016 #151
MisterP Mar 2016 #152
stupidicus Mar 2016 #164
MisterP Mar 2016 #173
stupidicus Mar 2016 #244
MisterP Mar 2016 #248
stupidicus Mar 2016 #252
msanthrope Mar 2016 #98
bravenak Mar 2016 #117
msanthrope Mar 2016 #138
bravenak Mar 2016 #142
msanthrope Mar 2016 #153
gordyfl Mar 2016 #104
bravenak Mar 2016 #118
gordyfl Mar 2016 #159
Gwhittey Mar 2016 #167
SoapBox Mar 2016 #112
LineLineReply ~
bravenak Mar 2016 #121
redstateblues Mar 2016 #119
bravenak Mar 2016 #122
redstateblues Mar 2016 #156
ismnotwasm Mar 2016 #123
bravenak Mar 2016 #124
ismnotwasm Mar 2016 #126
bravenak Mar 2016 #128
ismnotwasm Mar 2016 #140
bravenak Mar 2016 #143
ismnotwasm Mar 2016 #149
bravenak Mar 2016 #170
ConsiderThis_2016 Mar 2016 #129
bravenak Mar 2016 #130
lunamagica Mar 2016 #133
bravenak Mar 2016 #134
snowy owl Mar 2016 #135
bravenak Mar 2016 #137
snowy owl Mar 2016 #162
bravenak Mar 2016 #166
wildeyed Mar 2016 #139
bravenak Mar 2016 #144
Gothmog Mar 2016 #141
bravenak Mar 2016 #146
Gothmog Mar 2016 #165
bravenak Mar 2016 #168
snowy owl Mar 2016 #175
BlueMTexpat Mar 2016 #177
redstateblues Mar 2016 #192
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Mar 2016 #169
bravenak Mar 2016 #171
snowy owl Mar 2016 #176
bravenak Mar 2016 #179
snowy owl Mar 2016 #194
bravenak Mar 2016 #195
snowy owl Mar 2016 #196
bravenak Mar 2016 #198
snowy owl Mar 2016 #204
bravenak Mar 2016 #210
still_one Mar 2016 #178
bravenak Mar 2016 #182
alcibiades_mystery Mar 2016 #180
bravenak Mar 2016 #183
BlueMTexpat Mar 2016 #181
bravenak Mar 2016 #185
BlueMTexpat Mar 2016 #186
bravenak Mar 2016 #188
Eric J in MN Mar 2016 #184
bravenak Mar 2016 #187
Eric J in MN Mar 2016 #190
bravenak Mar 2016 #193
snowy owl Mar 2016 #200
Recursion Mar 2016 #207
azurnoir Mar 2016 #218
MisterP Mar 2016 #211
snowy owl Mar 2016 #215
MisterP Mar 2016 #216
BlueCaliDem Mar 2016 #212
bravenak Mar 2016 #217
Chichiri Mar 2016 #220
bravenak Mar 2016 #221
Cha Mar 2016 #222
bravenak Mar 2016 #229
CdnExtraNational Mar 2016 #239
NastyRiffraff Mar 2016 #241
bravenak Mar 2016 #246
asuhornets Mar 2016 #242
bravenak Mar 2016 #247
Gothmog Mar 2016 #251
asuhornets Mar 2016 #253
ladjf Mar 2016 #243
aikoaiko Mar 2016 #254
bravenak Mar 2016 #255

Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:19 PM

1. When all is said and done....

 

....history will show that it was the black vote which sank Bernie's candidacy.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:22 PM

6. Yep. I won't gloat.

 

I swear.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 12:06 AM

205. You won't gloat about what? Helping to elect a corrupt or crazy President?

Hard for me to figure out what you have to gloat about.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #205)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 12:16 AM

208. Hmmm

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #208)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 03:46 AM

223. They are trying to bait you, aren't they? Disgusting.

They want to silence the brave African Americans on this site because they are telling the truth.

Another thing that struck me, when you mentioned how Sanders wasn't comfortable in black spaces, was this quote from a Vermont newspaper article by Paul Heintz:

Sanders' bristly nature is no secret to the public. Unlike most politicians — and practically all presidential candidates — he avoids personal interactions with voters whenever possible, preferring to make his points behind a podium. Occasionally, when his signature monologues are disrupted, anger gets the best of him.

http://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/anger-management-sanders-fights-for-employees-except-his-own/Content?oid=2834657


That's not going to fly with black voters, I don't think. That's exactly the wrong way to approach black voters, because they want to see the candidates interact with them. It is much more revealing. White voters can afford to just listen to candidates talking from behind a podium, because they can be certain that any politician will take their issues into account (unless they are a 'hidden minority', like LGBT) and won't screw them over. Black voters can never be certain of that. So candidates have to prove themselves a lot more - and Sanders didn't care about or wasn't capable of doing that.

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Response to KitSileya (Reply #223)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 04:07 AM

226. Oh yes, they try very hard

 

I noticed that quite a few people have this view of him, that he's standoffish. It really did not work well at the church or the black forum. It was revealing.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:25 PM

11. It will say that, if things don't change. That doesn't mean it will be a good thing.

 

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:04 PM

49. Yep, most will remember it that way

sigh

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:53 PM

68. Then don't cry about the results you end up with. At that point many won't want to hear you.

You can't "take credit" for sinking Sanders then cry 1, 4, or 8 years later that "Black Lives Matter" because things aren't fundamentally different for Blacks.

I mean Jesus, if you listen to what's going on with BLM, et. al. you would think think this is the shittiest time in all of America and that's 8 years after a black president. Maybe I exaggerate as Slavery and Jim Crow was fucking outrageously sick and inhumanely horrible, so probably no one is suggesting times are as bad as that.

However, the point is the same: We've had a black centrist president for 8 years and you would think things are worse for blacks than in a long damn time. What exactly will a white centrist president do that Obama didn't?

According to Einstein doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

But back to taking credit for burying Bernie w/ the en bloc black vote... Don't take credit for it unless you are prepared to own the results. And the thing is, I don't think y'all will own the results. If it all stays fucked up, I think it will just be blamed on "white privilege" yet again (when all else fails, use the old standby).

It seems like Black America is angry at Bernie cuz Bernie was angry at Obama for abandoning the progressives and real liberals that adopted him first (well before South Carolina blacks). Maybe y'all shoulda been angry at Obama considering he had the power to change things for blacks in the past 8 years. But where was he? Laughing it up with Summers and Geithner? Toppling (at Hillary Clinton's behest, no less) the government in Libya because it benefited us how?




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Response to Bread and Circus (Reply #68)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:01 PM

101. Yep

 

after 8 more years with a corporatist they will be begging for a president Sanders but by then it will be too late.

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Response to Bread and Circus (Reply #68)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:04 PM

102. Yes. Right. Obama had the power to change things for blacks in the past 8 years.

Was he supposed to wave his magic wand and sprinkle some pixie dust and make an obstructionist, racist GOP who decided before Obama was even inaugurated and before he had signed one piece of legislation, that they were going to sit on their hands and ride out the recession as their path back to power. Obama knew he couldn't pass any legislature specifically aimed at helping the black community, and if you were as smart as you think you are, you know that as well.

He did what he could to try and get the economy moving, fought hard against the GOP to extend unemployment benefits when it was apparent that the GOP was not going to help with any jobs creation program in the hopes that the resultant rising time would lift everyone's boat. But a prosperous America would not be a benefit to the GOP, so everyone had to suffer including the GOP's base. This is why I don't have one bit of empathy for any of the Trump supporters. I am sick of angry white voters who voted for the GOP in 2010, 2012, and 2014, long after it became apparent that any GOP sponsored Waterloo aimed at Obama would be white America's working class Waterloo as well. The GOP was not going to pull any white's-only job's package out of their back pocket. So now that all those southern states who stuck like glue to the GOP even when they should have known the score have no one to blame but themselves, if they don't have a job, and their adult children with college degrees and student loans can't find jobs and are back living at home because they can't find jobs.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Reply #102)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:08 PM

163. What a strange post

I guess it's ok for candidate Sanders to be treated like a piñata for his perceived lack of AA specific proposals, but we'd be dummies to hold the actual president to the same standards. The other thing you unwittingly did is defend Obama for focusing his solutions for helping POC on economics, another supposed Sanders shortcoming.

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Response to Bread and Circus (Reply #68)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:09 PM

109. +1

All great points!

I think when you look at Bernie's record, he's much closer to MLK's vision, than Hillary ever could be. She, like Bill, is good at rhetoric.

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Response to Bread and Circus (Reply #68)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:32 PM

136. And let us not forget that Obama tried to chain Social Security. The Republicans said no to that!

Lots of poor folks of all colors live in a home with and provided by an older person receiving Social Security and Medicare. What happens when Social Security and more Clinton Welfare Reform remove the net or lower it, in providing a management fee to Wall Street. Oh yes, many stayed at home and did not help put Sanders, the expander of Social Security benefits, on the Presidential Ballot Box. Let us keep in mind that all those who do not work and who are under the poverty line were too stupid or to poor to get out and vote for the candidate that would provide single payer healthcare to themselves and family members living in that household.

There is more but I have become sickened at the stupidity of this nation. No wonder the middle class is disappearing and many many more are poor.

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Response to Bread and Circus (Reply #68)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 12:07 AM

206. + a gazillion. nt

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Response to Bread and Circus (Reply #68)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 04:20 AM

231. +1

 

I blame Jesus and his false prophets.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:53 PM

202. You must be so proud.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:20 PM

2. Hey B! Welcome back chica!

 

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Response to giftedgirl77 (Reply #2)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:23 PM

7. Hey!!

 



I feel like I just got out of the big house.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:29 PM

19. I feel you.

 

The trolling level has gone through the roof in the last couple of weeks.

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Response to giftedgirl77 (Reply #19)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:30 PM

22. Seriously.

 

It's bananas.

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Response to giftedgirl77 (Reply #19)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 03:10 PM

249. Indeed.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:20 PM

3. It seems to me that Bernie has a lot to say and

there is much that is appealing about his message. Unfortunately he doesn't appear to be very interested in listening to other people's concerns.

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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #3)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:23 PM

8. Right? I noticed that.

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:21 PM

4. He sure did!!!!!!

Welcome back I am glad to have your voice around here

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Response to rbrnmw (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:22 PM

5. Heeey!!

 

I think he lost it at Netroots. Poor guy.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #5)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:22 PM

81. There's also a running narrative telling voters that he has a problem with diverse states

 

By repeating it over and over, they are making it so. I just find it disappointing because he is the candidate with the history of standing up for civil rights and nearly every progressive cause under the sun while she's got the history of promoting and pushing law enforcement measures that were destructive to members of the AA community. However, she was able to get many AA lawmakers behind her to push a positive narrative about her and perpetuate a negative narrative about Bernie. It still goes on now. Can you see why that might bug some of us supporters? It's been a constant drumbeat of "He has no support in the AA community..." "He has trouble in diverse states..." "He struggles with black voters..." and so on. Eventually, when this meme has been said over and over for nearly a year, it becomes true and people believe it. They believe it even more when people in the AA community who are also powerful lawmakers push this theme as well.

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Response to Ned_Devine (Reply #81)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:23 PM

82. That sounds like dark magic

 

He has issues. The numbers bear this out. Ignoring us did not help.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:24 PM

9. “Make no mistake, Hillary Clinton's efforts to push these policies resulted in the continued

 

destruction of Black communities and the swift growth of our mass incarceration crisis.” BLM

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:29 PM

18. You mean like the omnibus crime bill bernie voted in favor of?

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #18)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:46 PM

39. Yeah that one

Funny.

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Response to mcar (Reply #39)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:47 PM

40. Not his fault!

 

He voted for the GOOD PARTS!

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Response to bravenak (Reply #40)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:48 PM

41. ...

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Response to bravenak (Reply #40)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:08 PM

105. Bernie only likes the good drones as well

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #105)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:01 PM

174. Everything good. Only the good.

 

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Response to mcar (Reply #39)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:56 PM

95. Bernie did vote for that

He also voted for it for what he thought were the right reasons, and has also owned up to the fact of the damage that bill did.

Hillary had the president's ear and pushed that bill like there was no tomorrow. She did that for what it would do for her and Bill, what I call the wrong reasons. She won't even own up to her part, rather just pointing fingers at Bernie as if he was a principal mover of that Bill.

She and Bernie were both voting members of Congress when she pushed and voted for the Iraq war bill. Why do we not discuss that along with the damage that has done to this country and its citizens?

Just more deflection and deception on her part. Pretty much what we have come to expect from the self-serving POS she is.

She someday might own up to a mistake, but I guarantee you it will cost money to get her to do it.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #18)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:18 PM

51. You seem to ignore that BLM didn't mention Sen Sanders because he didn't

 

support the bill vigorously like Clinton did.

"The 1994 Crime Bill that she so (Clinton) vigorously defended not only expanded incarceration, but stripped funding for college education from prisoners. The Clinton legacy allowed for policies that prevented anyone convicted of a felony drug offense from receiving food stamps or income assistance. Clinton-led welfare reform fundamentally ripped apart the social safety net.” BLM

In fact he tried to get the bill changed while she "vigorously defended" the mass incarceration of Americans, esp minorities.

She is tough, I'll give you that. Too bad she is tough on AA and not Goldman-Sachs. You do know that every dollar that Goldman-Sachs steals is a dollar the 99% won't have to feed those 16,000,000 children living in poverty.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #51)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:29 PM

55. But he voted for it unlike her.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #55)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:32 PM

57. So you don't agree with the BLM assessment? nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #57)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:35 PM

58. No. Why should I agree with BLM on EVERYTHING?

 

Makes no sense...

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:24 PM

10. Welcome back!

Great read, thanks for posting it!

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Response to Spazito (Reply #10)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:25 PM

13. Whoo hoo!

 

Thanks.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #13)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:27 PM

14. Big hugs back to you...

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:25 PM

12. I am an outsider, please explain this to me:

From the article:

Yet Anthony says there have been huge opportunities for Sanders to win over younger African Americans. "Young black voters don’t have that recollection of the golden era under Bill and his relationship with the African American community," Sanders says. "They’re seeing people that look like them being shot down in the street."


What made the 1990's a golden era for minority voters? Were the 1990's such a good time for non-white Americans?

The author talks about HRC connecting with non-white voters but does not explain the why of this connection. What specifically, or generally, did William Clinton accomplish that gives the Clinton name such power?

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #12)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:28 PM

16. I will tell you

 

The eighties were such hell that getting a president who kinda liked black people was heaven. Reagan was a hard man.
Our unemployment went down.
Black folks were rising in govt.
We had political power under clinton who NEEDED us.
Comparing 1980 to 1995? I'll take 95 all day!!! Way better than WE ever had it before. EVER.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #16)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:33 PM

26. You were much too kind to Reagan.

Ronald Reagan was a racist. THAT is why he won. He was a smoother version of Donald Trump, the current favorite of racists in the US.

An interesting and nuanced viewpoint bravenak. One I had not considered. Thanks.

Let us hope that if HRC is the nominee, and is elected President, she will remember who helped her.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #26)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:34 PM

27. She has no choice if she wants a second term.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #27)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:46 PM

150. You know she will. HRC never forgets her friends, just as Bill never forgets his.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #150)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 12:16 AM

209. I agree

 

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #12)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 12:03 AM

203. The easiest answer is this, BTW



The 1990s were an amazing economy for everybody, and I literally have no idea why a part of the party is so intent on running against them.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #203)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 01:00 PM

245. But the 1990s economy was a classic bubble economy.

And when the bubble burst, after Clinton was out of office, workers were left even worse off.

William Clinton did not pass NAFTA, but he signed it rather than opposing it.

William Clinton did not pass the Gramm, Leach, Blily financial deregulation, but neither did he oppose it.

All of these things that Clinton signed have contributed to wealth inequality that affects the country now. This massive wage stagnation and wealth inequality are two of the prime motivators of support for Donald Trump.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:28 PM

15. K&R...

...and Welcome back!

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Response to BooScout (Reply #15)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:29 PM

21. Thank you, Boo!

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:28 PM

17. Good article. Good points. Unfortunate, however, the wedge driven here...

 

between possibly the most proactive White Liberals and the PoC community. This wedge is not a good thing, and presents a formidable challenge for Progressives and for the Democratic Party.

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Response to highprincipleswork (Reply #17)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:29 PM

20. Proactive? Not in my view.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #20)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:40 PM

62. I guess White Liberals have never supported Black causes, while the DLC & Third Way have?

 

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Response to highprincipleswork (Reply #62)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:44 PM

64. Not enough to create a equal society

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #64)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:04 PM

71. Again, it's your choice, and it's being made as we speak...

 

White Liberals like Bernie, who actually was part of SNCC and got arrested and hasn't wavered in his support of PoC since then and Hillary and the DLC and the Third Way and incarceration and private prisons and corporate money and comments about RFK's assassination.

I wonder, I've seen your posts for quite a while now. Can you see how we'd be confused that you would choose the latter choice above? In all honesty, and with humility, and with the utmost love and respect for PoC my whole entire life.

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Response to highprincipleswork (Reply #71)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:15 PM

74. They would have to try to learn more from me than they try to teach me

 

It has always been their choice.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #74)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:56 PM

94. Well, perhaps Hillary has done a better job of that, or perhaps not...

 

I know BLM seemed more satisfied with the quality of their meetings with Bernie.

Keep in mind, he's got a campaign that started from nothing, with limited funds, with little chance given for any success.

But as always, totally behind your desire to do what's right and especially what's right for you and those close to you and those that you care about. Those seem to me to be high principles.

And that's why I go by "highprincipleswork". That's why I quote Lanston Hughes' poem at the bottom of my posts, because I love that poem. That's why I an an F.D.R. Democrat. High principles work. I really think that they do.

Peace.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:31 PM

23. You tried to warn them, Bravenak. All you got was a time out for your trouble.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #23)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:32 PM

24. Three of them!!

 



And I tried very hard.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #24)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:32 PM

25. LOL

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:35 PM

28. Great article, well reasoned, that provokes thought.

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #28)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:37 PM

29. These day after articles always break it down better than the before shots.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #29)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:58 PM

46. On the day after we have access to more information and can make better judgement of what has

happened.

And welcome back.

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #46)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:04 PM

50. Yep.

 

And thank you.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:37 PM

30. Bernie announced his candidacy on May 26, 2015.

 

On May 27, 2015 this bit of nastiness was posted here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026737025

And the campaign of personal destruction continues against Bernie. It's based on lies and a genuine mean-spiritedness. Denial is futile; a blind person can see it. Bernie didn't lose the black vote, he was robbed of it.

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #30)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:38 PM

31. Robbed? Oh please...

 

My goodness!
One must EARN votes!!!

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Response to bravenak (Reply #31)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:29 PM

189. Nothing is ever the fault of the Sanders camp

 

To be honest, I think Capehart baited them into what will go down as one of the most foolish campaign blunders in modern political history. The hyper-flailing over 60's era Bernie was an embarrassing spectacle on its own; that it was also catastrophic messaging is reflected in the collapse of his African American support that immediately followed. You could feel the cosmic side-eye every time they frothed over a black and white image.

It's not just the South: the African American vote probably cost Bernie Massachusetts, too. They're not going to want to see the numbers out of Philly, or Cuyahoga County.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #189)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:39 PM

191. Thank you!

 

I swore up and down that it was a set up to get them to act up. All that energy wasted on Capehart and his faux reresearching the photo!! I think he lost quite a few votes over that, John Lewis, Dolores Huerta, etc.
I do not think it will improve. I stick to my prior predictions that bernie will be effectively done by end o march.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #189)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 01:27 AM

213. Bill Clinton violating election law delivered Massachusetts for Hillary.

 

Exit polling which is used to monitor for fraud indicated a win for Bernie, so it is glaringly apparent that the Clintons cheated. You must be so proud! We all know you are fine with it, and that speaks to a lack of character that y'all have in common with the candidate you support.

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #213)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 02:59 AM

219. Exit polls are not always accurate. Officials say there was no cheating. nt

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #213)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 07:51 AM

240. Ridiculous

 

At most, Clinton's antics caused slight delays in one or two polling stations in Hillary areas for an hour or two. That doesn't make up 20,000 votes. The inability of the Sanders people to accept a loss (close or not - y'all don't really accept the thrashings throughout the south as legitimate either!) is a terrifying sign and probably a key reason why voters are rejecting Sanders. It reeks of fanaticism.

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #30)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:42 PM

34. So the Black vote was rightfully his? Did you bother to ask any black people about this first? nt

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Response to GoldenEagle16 (Reply #34)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:34 PM

90. Saying he lost the black vote could be construed as implying that as well.

 

Word games are for the insincere, the fractious, and those not to be taken seriously.

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #30)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:51 PM

67. He tried and failed

Black voters preferred Clinton and voted for her, which is all there is to it. Sanders wasn't robbed, because he doesn't own the black vote.

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #30)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:51 PM

154. Oh my goodness. Certainly. none so blind as they who will not see...

...and I see the personal destruction coming almost entirely from the side of Bernie's fans.

No one has "robbed" him of anything, no one has committed voter fraud. He's a one-trick pony with one answer to all problems -- and AK, that's not being nasty, that's just an assessment of his skill-set and his reach.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #154)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:57 PM

157. Don't sell your snark short. It's definitely nasty, false, and mean-spirited.

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:41 PM

32. Didn't BLM

 

do same thing when he had a speech before this and he let them talk? So now he is bad for leaving a speech they once again interrupted him on? The only way we are going to get any real change in this country is to get Money out of politics, and voting for Hillary is just going to keep the status quo? Sure you might get some small changes as she has promised but I rather change system so we can get talking about these dam issues Like our police state.

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Response to Gwhittey (Reply #32)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:42 PM

33. He did not handle it well

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #33)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:50 PM

42. He handled it very well as this video clearly shows.

 

And in spite of your false and gratuitously nasty characterization.

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #42)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:53 PM

43. Yawn

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #43)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:59 PM

47. Your campaign of personal destruction must be exhausting.

 

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #47)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:02 PM

48. I have no clue what you mean by that

 

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #47)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:14 PM

73. That person gets endless 'vacation' time to recover from it

 

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #73)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 01:33 AM

214. endless vacay for bad behavior - so many others have been TS'd for much, much less

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #43)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 03:50 AM

224. I love how people that can't vote in juries are ever so terribly concerned about YOUR "bad behavior"

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Response to Number23 (Reply #224)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 04:09 AM

227. Oh, me too.

 

I suppose they must agonize over it all day and night, it sure looks that way.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #224)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 04:20 AM

230. low-hanging fruit tonight is it?

 

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #230)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 04:22 AM

232. With some folks, it's like that every day

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Response to Number23 (Reply #232)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 04:24 AM

233. well at least you're consistent with your blacksplaining and divisiveness

 

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #233)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 04:26 AM

234. As are you with your racist and offensive comments.

AtomicKitten (45,553 posts)
Response to Number23 (Reply #232)Thu Mar 3, 2016, 03:24 AM

233. well at least you're consistent with your blacksplaining and divisiveness


You don't ever, EVER disappoint.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #234)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 04:39 AM

235. you can't win this political argument so you play the race card

 

that's so Hillary '08

in the words of bravenak ... yawn

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #235)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 04:42 AM

236. So you say that bravenak and I are "blacksplaining" and then accuse US of "playing the race card?"

Did I mention that you never, EVER disappoint? Sarah Palin couldn't do this better than you do.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #236)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 04:48 AM

237. Nina Turner and Killer Mike have explained what you're doing here

 

you can't win the political argument so you stoke racial division

g'night,

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #237)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 04:51 AM

238. Oh. My. God. Just when I didn't think the paternalistic, clueless claptrap could get any worse

You have no clue. NONE. And I thank you for broadcasting that very clear fact to the world with EVERY SINGLE POST of yours.

Lord have fucking mercy...

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Response to Number23 (Reply #238)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 06:12 PM

250. Hey...

 

What would Killer Mike, Nina Turner, Cornell West and Tavis Smiley think about how mean we are, hmmm? I guess we better tone it down before we end up with more MLK seances...

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Response to Gwhittey (Reply #32)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:55 PM

93. he didn't leave OA's speech either in Seattle: there's video recordings

plus of course there's only one candidate BLM still has to interrupt

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:44 PM

35. Glad you're back.

You've been dead on during this election but instead of heeding your advice, you were silenced.

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Response to spyker29 (Reply #35)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:45 PM

37. Nice to see somebody noticed!!

 

Thank you.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #37)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:11 PM

111. You were sorely missed. Welcome back!!

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #111)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:12 PM

114. I feel welcome, thank you!

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:45 PM

36. Excellent read

Welcome back!

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Response to mcar (Reply #36)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:45 PM

38. Thank you

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:54 PM

44. Yeah! Great to see you! Your analysis was so spot on as to be accurate for multiple

states, and I bet for the remaining ones, as well. Who could doubt you now! What you said has held up to be universally true, especially the part about the loyalty to Obama

Great insights!

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #44)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:56 PM

45. Aww, thank you!

 

And yes, Obama is a big deal. Too bad SOME folks just do not get that.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:21 PM

52. lies work

 

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Response to Vattel (Reply #52)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:36 PM

60. Umm hmm

 

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Response to Vattel (Reply #52)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:08 PM

107. yes. and telling lies over and over works even better

 

that is something the 3rd way dems learned from the fascists.

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Response to elmac (Reply #107)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:52 PM

155. Stop calling people liars and you might make more friends for your side.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #155)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:30 PM

172. This ^^^^^^^

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:26 PM

53. Welcome Back

Thanks for another good read. I've missed your links while you were gone.

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Response to noretreatnosurrender (Reply #53)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:29 PM

54. Hey!

 

I post elsewhere too.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #54)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:41 PM

63. Read one of yours on Daily Kos

A nice person here gave me a link. So much to read, so little time. By the time I finish reading articles here it's way past my bedtime. lol Anyways good to see you.

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Response to noretreatnosurrender (Reply #63)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:46 PM

65. I have the same problem

 

Then I stay up too long and have to nap during the day

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Response to bravenak (Reply #65)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:54 PM

69. Wish I Could Nap During Day

I'm jealous. I wish I could nap but my boss wouldn't like that too much.

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Response to noretreatnosurrender (Reply #69)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:27 PM

86. Heh.

 

Try under the desk...

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Response to bravenak (Reply #86)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:12 PM

115. LOL

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:32 PM

56. Welcome back!

That makes it Super Wednesday.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #56)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:36 PM

59. Heh!

 

It looks like sad Wednesday around here...

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:37 PM

61. "Now let's get back too the issues" :)

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #61)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:21 PM

79. Funny how OUR issues are never THE ISSUES...

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #79)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:33 PM

89. well I was quoting someone else ya know

someone who said that to a pretty culo blanco group too

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #89)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:48 PM

92. Umm hmm

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #92)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:00 PM

100. lol

good one

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:48 PM

66. Truly a sight for sore eyes!

You are most welcome back bravenak and thank you for posting. I'd ask you to stay low but that just might not be in your nature lol.

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Response to great white snark (Reply #66)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:21 PM

80. Heh.

 

I wish it was...

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:55 PM

70. That was an interesting analysis

although I would disagree with the comment that Hillary was somewhat "bourgeois". Both Clintons are (IMHO) "noveaux (rich)" but seemed to have generally presented themselves over the decades as somewhat rough and tumble. The "bourgeois" ones are the Romneys or Fiorinas - always uptight and overly concerned with appearance and perceptions of themselves.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #70)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:20 PM

78. I agree with that.

 

New money. Romney on the other hand had Dressage horses.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #78)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:00 PM

99. And

yachts and elevators for their cars. I expect that his CA beachfront house with the elevators should be completed by now.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #99)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:05 PM

103. Heh.

 

I'm waiting for the helicopter pad on the roof and the limos with pools. I am so glad he lost!

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Response to bravenak (Reply #103)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:08 PM

108. BTW I just saw a blip

where he supposed to make some important "speech" on the state of the race... I think one headline I saw was that he was going to endorse Rubio... as if that will make any difference.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #108)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:10 PM

110. Oh my God! It's damn sad to see the drag him back out year after year.

 

I swear they want to run him again. They have no sense at all. Rubio? He at least had me lughing all week long. Trumps spray tan.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #110)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:19 PM

125. I'm sure they were begging Ryan too

but he has a cushy position that he ain't about to give up (unless we take the House back)!!!

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #125)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:21 PM

127. Ryan knows better

 

Easier for them to keep the house for a while than to win the white house. This trump thing is great for us. I love him for it. He will help us defeat them.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #127)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:27 PM

131. Yup and yup

And Trump doesn't care either way. He'll write a book about his reality show Presidential and continue to play the modern day court jester. When you look at the historic definitions and depictions of that role, Trump fits it perfectly to a "t".

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #131)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:30 PM

132. Oh yeah, it's a mummers show.

 

He is just playing a role, similar to how I see Reagan. Scary tho

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:07 PM

72. how do black Sanders supporters fit into this pronouncement?

hmmm?

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #72)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:19 PM

77. That is up to them.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #77)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:25 PM

83. we don't...so. another sweeping generalization

bites the dust.

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #83)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:27 PM

84. Not really

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:16 PM

75. Bernie's campaign did make early mistakes, although most have been corrected.

 

And he can improve. Any white politician can.

But isn't it time to admit that he isn't responsible for the "berniebros" and shouldn't be electorally punished for them(assuming they are actually Sanders supporters at all)?

And isn't it time for the "Bernie doesn't care about institutional racism" meme to stop?

I guess he could speak more quietly, but why is that an issue with him when HRC hasn't spoken quietly to AA audiences either?



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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #75)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:18 PM

76. Him not being responsible does not mean they are not in favor of him

 

It does not negate what they do.
Whatever meme you are trying to pin on whomever is something I hear only from his supporters.
Hillary has more time spent communicating and has goodwill in the bank

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Response to bravenak (Reply #76)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:37 PM

91. It does not negate what they do, but it doesn't make it our campaign's fault.

 

We have denounced the 'bros and they are a dying breed. Their actions shouldn't be held against Bernie, since he never wanted that and since it is not even clear that they are supporters of his.

When David Brock eventually writes his memoirs, I'm almost certain he will admit to recruiting most of the 'bros. They aren't like any Sanders supporters I have ever seen in real life.

And the "meme"?

It's the meme that Bernie cares less about fighting racism than about achieving economic justice, and the implication that he is somehow willing to tolerate racism in the name of fighting corporate power. Neither of those have any basis in reality.

For one thing, the guy isn't stupid enough to think it's possible to defeat corporate power without also campaigning hard against bigotry.

The economic justice and social justice struggles are distinct, and all of us acknowledge that, but they are still conneccted, they do intersect. It's not possible to defeat racism without making some major changes in who makes the economic decisions in this country, because however racism started, it mainly survives today because working-class whites have been persuaded by endless corporate propaganda that any gains for POC are losses for them.

That doesn't MEAN that gains for POC are losses for working-class whites(they aren't), but that message has been pounded home to them over and over. Without the manipulation on that, white racism would have died a natural death by now, at least on the grassroots level(the institutional level is another story, and Sanders supporters join everyone else on this side of life in the struggle against institutional racism). White people have all benefited from racism, but we aren't all equally complicit in preserving it, and we aren't all equal oppressors. Those whites on top do much more to keep the oppression going than those on the bottom do, and the defeat of racism requires a willingness on the part of its victims to be willing to see whites as at least potential allies, as capable of being part of the solution rather than just being part of the problem.

Racism doesn't survive as meanness for meanness' sake. As the Rogers and Hammerstein song says, it has to be "Carefully Taught". And it has to be preserved by propaganda and fearmongering in order to save the existing order. A capitalist country in which institutional bigotry no longer exists is not possible. The system depends on it too much to let it die out.
It needs the ability to foment backlash in order to preserve itself.

On the progressive side of politics, we all want police violence to stop yesterday. We all want racial harassment of any POC to stop yesterday. And we are all willing to work hard on that.

We don't have to STOP fighting corporate power in order to prove that. On the contrary, we have to keep fighting corporate power, because it is corporate power, more than any other force in society, that fights to preserve all forms of racism.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #91)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:58 PM

158. Then how did they all end up here?

"We have denounced the 'bros and they are a dying breed."

Then how did they all end up here? And why isn't the Bernie Group policing itself at least at DU?

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Response to Hekate (Reply #158)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:03 PM

161. Anybody can end up here. Or on any other website, for that matter.

 

People can be recruited to come here and do dirty tricks. There is incredibly little screening done on this site, or any other website, to keep any sorts of troublemakers from signing up. And we have no way of really telling if anybody who posts here actually posts here for the reasons they claim to post. It's all largely about taking the posters' word for it. And they usually only get banned from a site once they have done the damage they showed up to do.

A lot of the so-called 'bros are probably just internet trolls who saw this as an opportunity to come here and have their notion of fun. Brock could have recruited a ton of them simply by promising to keep them in Hot Pockets and microwave burritos for a couple of months. No way to even track that.

Clearly, the Sanders campaign would never have been stupid enough to have used this as a campaign tactic. No campaign is THAT masochistically self-destructive.

Why would you even believe we would have wanted those idiots to appear? They don't do us or our candidate any good.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #75)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:27 PM

85. don't buy into this

your thread is more productive. this is a game,

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #85)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:43 PM

197. Yes, it is. And has been from the start - admittedly so, months ago.

A purposeful attempt to divide and create actual animosity. It's nauseating to watch.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #197)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:45 PM

199. Oh!

 



Untrue polly. Very untrue.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #199)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:47 PM

201. Not untrue at all, bravenak.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #199)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 03:53 AM

225. Skinner himself came out and posted against that other OP. But somehow, THAT'S the real one

and yours is the fake one designed to sow division.

I am reading these responses like and abd but most importantly like

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Response to Number23 (Reply #225)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 04:12 AM

228. Isn't it special? So so special!

 

I am just so DIVISIVE!! I can no longer tell if they are actually serious.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:31 PM

87. Welcome back, brave friend. Good to see your posts again. nt

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Response to Hekate (Reply #87)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:08 PM

106. Hey!!

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:32 PM

88. A hearty welcome back!

Articles pointing out significant points in recent history are greatly appreciated. Kudos for posting this one.

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Response to JohnnyLib2 (Reply #88)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:11 PM

113. No prob, thanks!

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:56 PM

96. Welcome Back!

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Response to MrWendel (Reply #96)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:13 PM

116. Thank you!

 

Your sigline is very funny

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:58 PM

97. but apparently Hillary can give them some harsh business and then the boot

 

as opposed to the podium/mike when they get in her way, and without fear of reprisal.

ANd it's terrifically stupid for the author to claim that he lost something he never had, but that Clinton undeservedly imo, long has. Only in the mind of a HC supporter does gaining ground/making inroads become "failure/loss". SHe "lost ground", not him, no?

too funny

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Response to stupidicus (Reply #97)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:15 PM

120. And somehow she got greater than eighty percent of the black vote so far...

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #120)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:42 PM

147. thanks for conceding that the author of the top posted hogwash is fact/logic-challenged

 

and that only Hillary lost any of the black vote that was there to be had at the beginning.

and it's gonna take more than repeating any of that garbage to alter that, nor does any of it even really impinge upon the aforementioned assertion except in a tangential way at best. It is and will remain unaddressed and unrebutted because it's the fact of the matter.

That's what so funny about "facts" like that 80% -- it's like that's a surprising result after having started this relatively short race temporally speaking a mile ahead with money, name recognition, disparities in coverage, etc, etc, etc, is something to brag about. It's kinda like Michael Jordan bragging that he dunked on Erkel, no?

In the final analysis, this is gonna be a story about the gains Bernie made in various ways, not how the 3rdwayer HC managed to keep enough people enamored long enough and in sufficient numbers to make it across the finish line.

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Response to stupidicus (Reply #147)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:43 PM

148. He was up to thirty and went down below twenty

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #148)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:02 PM

160. and?

 

that could be explained in whole or at least in part by the margin for error in the polls

Look, I made a very narrow case that that doesn't really address or rebut either because it still means he has net votes gained from square one, and she has been the one to suffer a net loss -- totally contrary to BS the author tried to peddle. All this dodging is tantamount to a tacit concession that this is the case, so as a wiseguy once said, "PLease Proceed"...lol

And there is absolutely no evidence that I've seen that indicates that he can't improve upon those gains once again as well, and perhaps sufficiently so to make a difference in the final primaries outcome.

ANd how do you explain an erosion of that magnitude based on a confrontation incident of the negative kind for Bernie alone, when she's had as MisterP illustrated below, had three abusive incidences? What, the AA community doesn't keep up with current events on her, or are they simply hypocritically giving her a pass as the first "black" (by extension from Bill) first lady?

in any case, cya tomorrow

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Response to stupidicus (Reply #97)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:41 PM

145. repeatedly: she thinks she can keep doing this indefinitely



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Response to MisterP (Reply #145)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:48 PM

151. yep, they are all sacrificial lambs

 

sacrificed for the higher calling a -- HC presidency.

there really is no other plausible explanation for the disparate hypocritical treatment Bernie has received over his interactions with BLM members.

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Response to stupidicus (Reply #151)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:49 PM

152. oh, it's now racist to point out who BLM still has to protest and who gives BLM the bum's rush

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Response to MisterP (Reply #152)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:09 PM

164. LOL

 

dude, after spending most of the last 15 years locking horns with rightwingnuts in a "you're a dumbass and here's why" debate jungle, I've really been a bit disappointed to find that most of the 3rdwayers around here
"debate" like and as well (not very) their rightwing cousins.

That's similar to but not to be confused with the way they use to call me a racist for C&ping/quoting their racist remarks.

criminally stupid it is...

goodnight

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Response to stupidicus (Reply #164)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:36 PM

173. outing myself as an Angeleño, but the closest analogy seems to be the Bus Riders Union

it presents itself as an analogue to the "straphanger's campaign" advocating for humane transit conditions--"we are not sardines," pointing out broken and hazardous bus interiors, against route cuts, etc.

it's the brainchild of Eric Mann, one of the "saurian left" like Bob "the Revolution! is! nigh!" Avakian that doesn't talk to anybody else, ever: of course he's got it into his head that 1. buses are THE transport mode of the poor, 1a. the city fathers deliberately make buses as crummy as possible to humiliate the colored underclass (hence the fliers likening the riders' plight to the horrors of Jenin), and 2. any other sort of transport, especially LRT/subways is a rich man's toy, built on the backs of the Black and Brown laborers of the city to whisk them around from caviar party to masked human hunt; they even protest double-jointed buses as racially-biased transit (since it supposedly means a little less money from the little Snickers-bar buses): of course it's just a front for the bus drivers' union--when they struck the BRU basically said that the scum's used to walking

whenever anyone criticizes him he even says "the only people criticizing me are white commuters! I'm a radical!" he of course has a padded chair in the Wiltern building, pulls in $300,000 a year from his BH/Westwood donors, and gets everyone to just do his volunteering for free by telling them "here's an INJUSTICE!" (also, spotting BRU kidlets in their yellow dayglo jerseys on the Metro subways is always a fun pastime in the city, besides dodging those cultists that were responsible for the Sewol); some judge in Washington gave them a consent decree where it had full veto over any Metro action, and all lawsuits against Metro would be paid in full by Metro

now West LA is notorious--a punchline, in fact--for its utter hysterical hatred to let any Metro expansion near it: Cheviot Hills's denizens outright go to the City Council and say "Rosa can take the bus, I don't want gangbangers near me"; Beverly Hills HS *embezzled $10 million in school district funding* to fight the Purple Line (including making a video of high schoolers getting detonated by a methane leak: the line goes under their tennis court, BTW); inaccessibility ("seclusion" is even a coded cachet for Westsiders wanting to avoid those of us who have to work for a living; it's poured millions into gumming up the Orange, Expo, and Purple by any means possible

so the BRU's protesters (not knowing anything beyond what Mann tells them), show up and scream and shout and drown out any other speakers when it's their turn ("WE! WILL! NOT! BE! SILENCED!"; especially amusing was when half of East LA turned out in favor of the Gold Line, sorta putting a damper on the "we represent all LA's oppressed minorities!" cheerleading

the Expo Line was also delayed and dragged for years and years by Damien Goodmon, some Cajun monomaniac from Leimert Park that said that light rail was a way to kill off Black kids(!): so again another wave of rent-a-rad "activism" occurred that just happened to get its millions from west of La Cienega; in fact his campaign to hold up the Crenshaw Line never got off the ground because Inglewood desperately wants light rail

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Response to MisterP (Reply #173)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 12:22 PM

244. I'll try not to hold your status as such against you MrP...lol

 

if there's one thing I've taken from this election, it's the need for a change in leadership for many a union across this country.

In many cases, they seem to be as untethered from the wants and needs of their members as our pols are

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Response to stupidicus (Reply #244)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 03:10 PM

248. it's not an actual union, but big-city people are inured to seeing double-jointed buses

being called racist

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Response to MisterP (Reply #248)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 07:54 PM

252. I knew that

 

of course, but given your critique I assumed that you felt he wasn't doing his fellow travelers, the bus riders, justice with such nonsense, much as I see all the union leadership that has endorsed HC without input from their members.

I can't imagine how anyone could ever get accustomed to something as stupid as that unless POC are in one part, whites the other.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:58 PM

98. Welcome back. My, my, my....nt

 

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #98)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:14 PM

117. Thank you. My my my is correct!

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #117)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:35 PM

138. I note how the Clenis set some folks off today. Damn. nt

 

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #138)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:37 PM

142. They can't stop thinking about it.

 

I feel for them.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #142)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:50 PM

153. I'm just floored at the level of hate for a good Democratic President. nt

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:05 PM

104. 4 Years as Obama's Sec'y of State

I think is the biggest reason she has taken the African American (older) vote. Minds were already made up by many before she actually announced she was running. Add the fact that she will "continue President Obama's policies", including her referring to Bernie as opposing Obama on some issues, trying to paint Bernie as the anti-Obama has worked well

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Response to gordyfl (Reply #104)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:15 PM

118. Bernie did say a primary would be a good idea...

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #118)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:01 PM

159. And an Uphill Battle.

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Response to gordyfl (Reply #104)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:21 PM

167. So any clue

 

why African American (older) would be so for Hillary for just being Sec of state vs Obama? I was a kinda Obama supporter but not really committed to him as he was unknown and I was kinda like meh because I just kinda felt he was too much fast tracked to the national stage because DNC wanted a POC to run. But his hope and change speeches did turn me and so did Hillary's attacks at Obama for being black. I was outraged that this person would use such tactics against first dam POC just to get into power.


Then there is this gem from 2008

"I have a much broader base to build a winning coalition on," she said in an interview with USA TODAY. As evidence, Clinton cited an Associated Press article "that found how Sen. Obama's support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me."

[snip]
"Clinton rejected any idea that her emphasis on white voters could be interpreted as racially divisive. "These are the people you have to win if you're a Democrat in sufficient numbers to actually win the election. Everybody knows that."

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-05-07-clintoninterview_N.htm

Kinda odd that in 2008 she claimed that Dems need white vote to win and not blacks but she was not trying for them and it was white votes that mattered. And now we see her Campaign pushing a narrative that Sanders does not care about Black vote and that is most important voting block there is. Odd no.

Or this one

“Dr. King’s dream began to be realized when President Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act,” Clinton told Fox News on the eve of Obama’s blowout win in the African-American-dominated South Carolina primary.
“It took a president to get it done,” she added.

This one IMO was very racial when you are talking about Primary in South Carolina to dam Fox news. And I bet Fox news viewers got what she meant. To me it seemed she was hinting at that it took a white man to get civil rights. When it was Civil Rights Act forced to get passed by many many Blacks standing up for rights and getting their heads knocked in for it on live tv that swayed public opinion. Int today world if we still had segregation we would never get rid of it because those images would of never made it on TV because money in politics and media being controlled by the people who want to keep everyone down and people like Clinton in power.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/us/politics/13cnd-campaign.html

In response to this she said “Clearly, we know, from media reports, that the Obama campaign is deliberately distorting this,” Mrs. Clinton said. “I think it is such an unfair and unwarranted attempt to misinterpret and mischaracterize what I have said. Look at what I have done my entire life. I have been working on behalf of civil rights, women’s rights, human rights for years, and I know how challenging it is to change our political system, and I have the highest regard for those who have put themselves on the line.”

She and Bill many speeches where when talking to white groups she said she was better indicate because she was white and Obama would not get the Independent white vote because he was dominating the black vote. She was Wrong. She like GOP assumed America is like them and would not want black POTUS. Now she is going after Sanders when talking to Black voters and telling them she is better candidate because Sanders does not care about blacks. Well Hillary cares as long as you vote for her, if you vote for someone else you are irrelevant.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:11 PM

112. What exactly has Hillary done for the African American Community?

Please...feel free to list ALL her fabulous deeds!

Waiting!

Don't forget,
-Prisons for Profit
-Welfare reform
-Super-Predators

...for just a few.

Still waiting.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:15 PM

119. Free DanTex!!

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #119)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:18 PM

122. Is he out?

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #122)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:56 PM

156. Later this month.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:18 PM

123. K&R

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #123)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:19 PM

124. Heeeeeyyyy.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #124)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:20 PM

126. Hey back!



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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #126)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:22 PM

128. It feels sad up in here...

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #128)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:36 PM

140. I've run out of words

Well, not really, but the inability to hear a powerful and very relevant message in the interests of protecting what I can only think are fragile egos is disturbing, to say the least. The other very worrisome and, yes heartbreakingly sad trend is how African American concerns are only popular and supported when immediately expedient.

And Hillary, thank God, has got this, so yes, that makes some folks a little sad

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #140)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:39 PM

143. I am hoping this is not just the calm before the storm.

 

I think some really do feel that they are losing if our issues get ány attention. Which is very sad.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #143)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:44 PM

149. Yes--although sort of interesting from a psychological POV

Myself, being white, I know we have the tendency to not see our own racism. We Definitely don't feel our own privilege most of the time. It's time to face our own shit and stop projecting on every "other" we find within reach. It's embarrassing.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #149)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:25 PM

170. Spot on assesment

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:25 PM

129. BS

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Response to ConsiderThis_2016 (Reply #129)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:27 PM

130. No

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:30 PM

133. Bravenak!

Great to have you back!

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #133)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:31 PM

134. Yay, lets see how long I last!!

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:31 PM

135. Sorry, not buyin' it

Media controls the message. Relatively few people even saw that event and it was over before it began. I'm not sure what will happen in the northern states, but I believe you will see a different turn out for Bernie. The south has a strong black sense of loyalty even when that loyalty isn't really deserved. The sleepy south . . . let's see what northern blacks and whites do. If the results are the same, I might become a believer but not yet.

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Response to snowy owl (Reply #135)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:33 PM

137. I'm a Northern black

 

North as can be
The results will be similar

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Response to bravenak (Reply #137)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:03 PM

162. Then we'll be watching together.:)

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Response to snowy owl (Reply #162)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:20 PM

166. I hope so!

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:36 PM

139. Yes he did.

Welcome back! It was boring without you

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #139)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:40 PM

144. Thank you!!

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:37 PM

141. I have my theory why Sanders lost the vote of many good Democrats

There are good reasons why many voters including some African American voters are not supporting Sanders. I believe that one major difference explains one of the big divides between Sanders supporters and Clinton supporters. There is a vast difference in how Sanders supporters and Sanders view President Obama and how other Democrats view President Obama. I admit that I am impressed with the amount accomplished by President Obama in face of the stiff GOP opposition to every one of his proposals and I personally believe that President Obama has been a great President. It seems that this view colors who I am supporting in the primary http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-sanders-obama_us_56aa378de4b05e4e3703753a?utm_hp_ref=politics

But lurking behind this argument about the future is a dispute that's really about the past. It’s a debate over what Obama accomplished in office -- in particular, how significant those accomplishments really are. And it's been simmering on the left for most of the last seven years.

On one side of this divide are activists and intellectuals who are ambivalent, disappointed or flat-out frustrated with what Obama has gotten done. They acknowledge what they consider modest achievements -- like helping some of the uninsured and preventing the Great Recession from becoming another Great Depression. But they are convinced that the president could have accomplished much more if only he’d fought harder for his agenda and been less quick to compromise.

They dwell on the opportunities missed, like the lack of a public option in health care reform or the failure to break up the big banks. They want those things now -- and more. In Sanders, they are hearing a candidate who thinks the same way.

On the other side are partisans and thinkers who consider Obama's achievements substantial, even historic. They acknowledge that his victories were partial and his legislation flawed. This group recognizes that there are still millions of people struggling to find good jobs or pay their medical bills, and that the planet is still on a path to catastrophically high temperatures. But they see in the last seven years major advances in the liberal crusade to bolster economic security for the poor and middle class. They think the progress on climate change is real, and likely to beget more in the future.

It seems that many of the Sanders supporters hold a different view of President Obama which is also a leading reason why Sanders is not exciting many African American voters. Again, it may be difficult for Sanders to appeal to African American voters when one of the premises of his campaign is that Sanders does not think that President Obama is a progressive or a good POTUS.

Again, I am not ashamed to admit that I like President Obama and think that he has accomplished a great deal which is why I do not mind Hillary Clinton promising to continue President Obama's legacy. There are valid reasons why many non-African American democrats (myself included) and many African American Democratic voters are not supporting Sanders.

I personally am proud that President Obama is our POTUS and I do not want to abandon his legacy. This viewpoint explains why many good Democrats are not supporting Sanders including many African American voters. Sanders' legacy in the civil rights movement is nice but does not overcome this concern.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #141)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:42 PM

146. I agree with you.

 

The perfect becomes the enemy of the good.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #146)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:19 PM

165. BTW, welcome back

I missed your posts

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #165)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:23 PM

168. Thank you

 

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #141)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:02 PM

175. Now that's an argument I think has merit.

I believe that split absolutely exists. Rather than the perfect being the enemy of the good, I see it as the desire for the status quo impeding progress.

Bush gave the ok to spend another $350 billion of TARP and Lawrence Summers screwed it up. That's on Obama.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/secret-and-lies-of-the-bailout-20130104?page=2

https://findsenlaw.wordpress.com/2013/01/06/biggest-bailout-lies/

When the "thirteen bankers" appeared before Obama, he made matters worse by giving them a blank check. The authors complain that in the dark days of 2008 and 2009 the government chose to rescue the financial system “by extending a blank check to the largest, most powerful banks in their moment of greatest need. The government chose not to impose conditions [on bail-outs] that could reform the industry or even to replace the management of large failed banks. http://www.antitrustinstitute.org/sites/default/files/JohnsonKwakReview.pdf (Simon Johnson's Thirteen Bankers

Lawrence Summers should never have been in a progressive's cabinet.

Finally, Obama has criminalized many whisleblowers but not insiders. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/16/whistleblowers-double-standard-obama-david-petraeus-chelsea-manning Obama's war on whistleblowers leaves administration insiders unscathed

I'm a progressive who voted for Nader Clinton's second term; voted for Stein Obama's second term; but who cried when Obama was elected first term I was so, so happy. I believed in him. But I'm no emotional bystander. If someone doesn't come through, I move on. BTW, we'll see what kind of legacy the ACA really leaves. It is a long way from perfect for most middle Americans. Time will tell.



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Response to Gothmog (Reply #141)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:08 PM

177. + a million! eom

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #141)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:40 PM

192. Great post. I too believe that Obama

Has done a great job considering the intransigence he faced. Especially considering the mess he inherited. Democrats that bash him have political amnesia. This country is in much better shape than it was 8 years ago. After a hard fought election Obama had the courage to appoint Hillary to an important job. I believe that resonates with A lot of the AA electorate.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:24 PM

169. Welcome back

Let me add an additional theory. Hillary has said she wants to continue what President Obama has accomplished. Sanders has stated he wants to take things in a more liberal direction.

In spite of the ranting one hears on DU Obama has had high approval rating among Democrats. He has an even higher rating among African Americans.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval-Center.aspx

Whether one agrees with Hillary or not she's out maneuvered Sanders by embracing Obama's legacy.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Reply #169)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:27 PM

171. Thank you.

 

This is true. I think she is smart to understand where the party is at rather than trying to force too much change too soon. I do not think he took the time to understand how he could appeal. It was over before it started.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #171)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:08 PM

176. Identity politics?

I don't know. Maybe you ought to research black poverty, unemployment among black youths, the wealth of black americans compared to white, and the trillion plus dollars that have moved from lower and middle classes to top tier. Or don't those things count anymore?

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Response to snowy owl (Reply #176)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:10 PM

179. Maybe i did my research and know more than you do about my own demographic

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #179)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:41 PM

194. You might. I don't have evidence of it.

But, you're not required to prove it to me. I speak for myself and give evidence when I can. I'm not an arguer but I do like rich discussions. I guess we have to agree to disagree. BTW, I live in Seattle and there wasn't much made of the incident here. It all blew over rather quickly but did generate some good discussion.

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Response to snowy owl (Reply #194)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:42 PM

195. You have not posted enough in the aa group to know what evidence we have posted there

 

Take a look and read through. I always read it.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #195)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:43 PM

196. Where do I find the aa group. I'd love to read it.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #198)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 12:04 AM

204. THANK YOU!

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Response to snowy owl (Reply #204)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 12:18 AM

210. Yr welcome. :)

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:09 PM

178. Good to see you back. You were missed

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Response to still_one (Reply #178)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:16 PM

182. Heeeyy!!!

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:11 PM

180. Welcome back!

 

Missed your posts.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #180)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:17 PM

183. Thank you!

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:15 PM

181. Welcome back to GD-P, brave bravenak indeed!

Love seeing your voice back where it belongs!

Thanks also for flushing out some newbies who have gone straight to my Ignore List for their bad behavior.

Life is too short and I don't have much patience left! You are a much better person than I.

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Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #181)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:18 PM

185. I don't know if I'm brave or just crazy

 

p
But I'm trying to ignore the worst too

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Response to bravenak (Reply #185)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:19 PM

186. Sometimes courage and

insanity go together!

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Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #186)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:21 PM

188. True!!

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:18 PM

184. What should Bernie Sanders have done when he was about to give a speech about Social Security

...at an event where he was a guest, and two women took the stage?

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Response to Eric J in MN (Reply #184)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:20 PM

187. Tell me, what do you think?

 

Should he stay, leave, listen, respond, what? I only know what I would do. Have a platform up and plenty of staff to advise me.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #187)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:29 PM

190. If I were asked to give a speech, and two women took the stage

...before my speech and refused to leave, then I would go home.

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Response to Eric J in MN (Reply #190)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:41 PM

193. If it had happened before I'd have security, lots!

 

And If they managed to get my mic I'm the type to sit down and watch the show. I do not answer yelled questions.

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Response to Eric J in MN (Reply #190)

Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:46 PM

200. He didn't actually go home...

He let the women have the stage and microphone for a time. He backed off and let them speak. I think he wasn't sure what to do but he was respectful.

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Response to Eric J in MN (Reply #184)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 12:11 AM

207. Good thing POTUS isn't a job that requires a good instinctive response

to an unexpected challenge...

What do you think Bill Clinton would have done?

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Response to Recursion (Reply #207)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 02:32 AM

218. made sure the cameras were off before he spoke

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Response to Eric J in MN (Reply #184)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 12:32 AM

211. carefully stood aside the whole time and let them have the mic (oh wait ...)

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Response to MisterP (Reply #211)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 01:39 AM

215. Your link did not connect with topic for me

but did see it on local tv and some time ago. I only remember Bernie standing back and letting the girls talk. I don't recall seeing anybody trying to intervene at first. Here's local news on it: http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/black-lives-matter-protesters-shut-down-bernie-sanders-rally/

But I don't disagree that Bernie has been slow to make it personal with black Americans.

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Response to snowy owl (Reply #215)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 01:44 AM

216. yeah, that was the Seattle incident--they seem to have been disconnected and sorta fundie, too

those who weren't taking advantage of the incident were more scratching their heads

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 01:22 AM

212. Welcome back, bravenak! Your voice was sadly missed.

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #212)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 02:24 AM

217. Hey!!

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 03:00 AM

220. Coming in late, but welcome back!

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Response to Chichiri (Reply #220)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 03:04 AM

221. Hi!!

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 03:27 AM

222. Yes, Welcome Back, Bravenak! I see you're in your usual fine form~

Good article with a lot of the history and statistics..

"But whatever overtures her campaign makes to young black America, it is essential that Clinton take herself out of her comfort zone, Anthony says—just like she did when agreeing to meet "in private" with Black Lives Matter activists last year. Hillary was unaware that the interview would be captured on tape and shared with the public. But this turned out to be a blessing in disguise. Although Clinton did not agree with everything the activists believed, nor did she make all (or perhaps any) of the assurances they wanted to hear, Anthony called it a "big win" for Hillary, adding that young African Americans and young people in general were impressed by her vulnerability, candor, transparency, and—most importantly—her humanity".

Good to know!

One thing.. I have not been able to find where Al Sharpton endorsed Sanders?

Thank you!

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Response to Cha (Reply #222)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 04:13 AM

229. I did not hear that one? Sharpton? Very interesting.

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 05:17 AM

239. Because black leaders are part of the establishment...

 

Blacks rely as much or more than anyone on their leaders.

And for good reason.

But unfortunately for Bernie Sanders campaign, these leaders are part of the establishment.

And they will be hard pressed to risk their place in the establishment.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 09:29 AM

241. Another latecomer here, but

welcome back! You were very much missed.

I love it when some people here explain to you that Bernie was "robbed" of the Black vote, like he somehow owned it. There are many reasons why Blacks (and others) don't vote for Bernie. Robbing him of what is supposedly "rightfully" his is not one of them.

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Response to NastyRiffraff (Reply #241)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 01:22 PM

246. That was so ridiculuos

 

Robbed. Like it was his for the taking. I really do sense an extreme amount of privilege around here.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 09:36 AM

242. I don't believe he had the chance of getting the Black vote from the very beginning....n/t

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Response to asuhornets (Reply #242)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 01:24 PM

247. Looking back, neither do I.

 

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Response to asuhornets (Reply #242)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 07:13 PM

251. The way to win the African American vote would have alienated many of Sanders supporters

Sanders would have to change his position on several issues including refraining from attacking President Obama. These positions would have hurt Sanders with the segment of his base who believe that President Obama has been a bad POTUS and President Obama failed the progressive cause. I personally believe that President Obama has done a great job and that Sanders' attacks are not warranted. Many Sanders supporters disagree with this view strongly and if Sanders weakened his opposition to President Obama, they would not be as supportive

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #251)

Thu Mar 3, 2016, 08:21 PM

253. i see..n/t

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Response to bravenak (Original post)


Response to bravenak (Original post)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 01:48 AM

254. I don't think one can lose something one never had


There was strong rejection of Bernie's campaign by some Black writers from the day he announced going forward.

That was followed by BLM sending the message that Bernie was such a worthless person that he shouldn't speak at assemblages to which he was invited.


But it is true that he didn't effectively communicate with much of the Black community.

Sometimes I doubt that there was anything he could do. It seems like the Clibton Machine had locked up the Black vote or, rephrased, the Black vote committed to the Clinton Machine.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #254)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 01:52 AM

255. He never included us in the beginning so I have no idea why there is suprise at our opposition

 

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