2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWho here wants to vote for someone instead of picking the lesser of 2 evils.
I am hoping that I can vote for someone that I trust and support rather than someone to stop the other side from winning.
monicaangela
(1,508 posts)Bernie Sanders...I will not vote for the lesser of two evils. If he doesn't win I will concentrate my efforts down ticket in hopes that in 4 years I will have an opportunity to vote for someone who supports his ideology.
840high
(17,196 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Except for downticket?
monicaangela
(1,508 posts)Or vote for a third party candidate.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)monicaangela
(1,508 posts)that is bought and sold according to Wall Street and the Weapons merchants progressive? How is voting for someone who was for the Keystone XL pipeline before she was against it progressive? How is voting for someone who was for TPP before they were against it progressive? How is...well, I'm sure you get the message. I'd rather vote green party, or something I could live with before voting for someone who changes positions more often than they change their underwear.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)monicaangela
(1,508 posts)Republicans have been limiting voter rights for a long time now. If you will notice, turnout has been low on the democratic side, not all of that is because people are required to jump through hoops in order to vote and decide not to vote, much of it is because they don't feel they have anyone to vote for, especially if that person is this person you seem to think has so much experience and is the lesser of the two evils when it comes to her or Trump. I say, if it's Trump so be it. I won't be voting for him, and I don't believe many people with a conscience will be either. I think instead of us fighting over which democratic candidate we are going to or not going to vote for, we need to address the problem of having so many people in this nation that will vote for someone like Donald Trump. That is where our real problem lies.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)monicaangela
(1,508 posts)and her ability to debate better than Trump is something that is yet to be seen. You have to remember, republicans do not debate in the same manner in which democrats do. They like mud slinging, not sticking to the issues. And, from what we are seeing in the primaries, the public appears to be more interested in mudslinging than actual policy issues. Yes, she has an ability to debate, but she's also vulnerable because she lies a lot. Trump will drown her in her own flip flopping record that she has developed over the years. I'm sure that if she has to run against Trump it is going to be very, very ugly and in the end she will lose.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)This place sometimes...
monicaangela
(1,508 posts)Kind or not, truth is much better than fiction in my book. I say, let's wait to see what happens if the eventuality is Clinton vs. Trump.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)monicaangela
(1,508 posts)Why should it be anything other than MY OPINION?
tymorial
(3,433 posts)This will ruffle feathers but so be it. There are those who have adopted identity politics to the point that they demand echo chambers not open debate. The result is differing opinions are viewed as hostile and offensive. Unless you express an opinion that matches those of the collective, you are viewed as a traitor and a sellout. It is becoming far too commonplace on both sides of the political spectrum.
monicaangela
(1,508 posts)and analysis tymorial. I believe some here don't even realize they have fallen into that cookie cutter template, that doesn't allow them to think outside the box, that's sad, very sad.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)They are to blame if their candidate is the worst for the GE.
They should be promoting the candidate who generates the most enthusiasm to get the turnout to be max, instead of trying to undercut his every move.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,167 posts)No more "lesser" - those days end now.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)I have come to the same conclusion. It will never end if we keep voting for the fools they put in front of us.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)No more nose holding.
LuvLoogie
(6,913 posts)I support Hillary Clinton. I do not think she is evil.
JI7
(89,240 posts)JEB
(4,748 posts)An evil I cannot stomach.
BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)Illegal Pete
(12 posts)They havent done me squat for 36 years. I want a change candidate.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)Autumn Colors
(2,379 posts)If HRC is the nominee, I'll either either write in Bernie's name or vote Green. I've voted straight-ticket Dem. since I was 18 (1980), but I will NEVER vote for Hillary Clinton.
Also: I looked at your profile/rec history and want you to know that I'm an over-50, pro-choice woman, who has had an abortion in the past. That being said, I still will never vote for Hillary Clinton.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)It truly sucks, to not be able to vote for something but against others.
One fear of mine is people will then not vote at all and there are so many other races, initiatives, local things that need voting on also. Yes, Pres is important, but local issues and Congress address also.
Autumn Colors
(2,379 posts)All local officials except one in my town are Democrats.
Kali
(55,003 posts)but while maybe nobody "did squat" they may have at least staved off horrible problems for you. try thinking about it that way.
unfortunately in our current system it has to be a Democrat or a repuke, tossing votes away is like giving them to repukes.
Illegal Pete
(12 posts)If it's Clinton, it's Republican-Lite vs Trump, a Republican.
Harry S Truman had it right: Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time
monicaangela
(1,508 posts)PonyUp
(1,680 posts)Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time
- Harry S Truman
treestar
(82,383 posts)it's voting for anti-abortion, anti-affirmative action, no regulation of business, no environmental protection candidates?
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(107,741 posts)Life is full of choices like that. You rarely get what's perfect.
awake
(3,226 posts)Autumn Colors
(2,379 posts)(over-50 female here having a good laugh at that post and your response)
Kali
(55,003 posts)not sure you want to find out what that would entail (see the fucked up mess of geedubya)
I want to be voting for Bernie in the GE, but I sure as hell don't want ANY repuke winning.
monicaangela
(1,508 posts)I can tell you what that would entail, it's the same thing my people have been suffering since being dragged to these shores. Problem will be, those who haven't had the same experience may begin to see what that feels like. Karma is a mother isn't it.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)I hope it will happen again, but if it doesn't? I will pick the lesser rather than let the greater of 2 evils win. It sucks.
tgards79
(1,415 posts)I can solve your problem. Vote for Hillary!
That is why I am voting for an exceptionally qualified, competent Democrat with thoughtful policy proposals, someone who is committed to working hard to improve the lives of ordinary Americans. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/
awake
(3,226 posts)Although I do not share your view I am happy for you. At one point I thought that I could support her but seeing how her supporters have swiftboated Berrnie and his long support of POC at this point I am having a hard time with the thought that I may have to vote for her.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)2004 all over again.
Gore and Kerry were so much better liked by independents and so much better trusted than Clinton, but still they were kept from the presidency.
Independents respected Gore and Kerry, but they hate Clinton (and if you have spoken with millennial Democrats about Clinton, you know these feelings are not limited to independents).
I remember everyone saying "Gore/Kerry might be a bit moderate and unexciting but we'll unite in opposition to Bush who we all agree Bush is 100 times worse than even a moderate Democrat." Well, it just doesn't happen that way. We need enthusiasm to turn out in numbers that can win, and Clinton is the least exciting candidate to get this close to the nomination in my lifetime. This is the most important primary in a generation because it will be a forfeit in the general election if we let the establishment take the nomination away from the grass roots.
DefenseLawyer
(11,101 posts)onenote
(42,585 posts)I will vote for Clinton in the general. Will i be voting for the lesser of two evils? THat's one way to look at it. Te way I'm looking at it is that I'm voting to prevent the election of a greater evil.
greyl
(22,990 posts)They all have deep flaws, but Hillary and Bernie are much higher grade overall, no question.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)whatthehey
(3,660 posts)Let's say HRC gets the nomination (odds are for it, but still an open question). Let's say that she's everything the most bitter primary opponent has said; in thrall to Wall St, dishonest, warmongering, free trader, plutocratic, the lot (fringe BS though it is as she's pretty much a safe bog-standard Democrat, it makes the hypothesis clearer).
The Rep nominee doesn't matter. He's worse than that. More aligned with the rich, more hawkish, more pro-business and anti labor, plus we get anti-choice and bigotry too. There are no Rep candidates who do not fit this. Even by bringing up the trite "lesser evil" trope, that's axiomatic in that even her ardent detractors popsit Hillary as the lesser evil.
But in today's politics only the lesser evil or the greater evil have any chance whatsoever to win. Writing in Sanders or voting Green is short-sighted hand-washing. The only choice we realistically have is lesser evil, or if she does not win, greater evil. Who sane would prefer greater evil running the country or refuse to help lesser evil (again with the silly assumption that she is "evil" reduce the overall evil quotient.
Basic utilitarian calculus. Reducing harm is the same as increasing benefit.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)"lesser evil" is owned by the machine, but "greater evil" is not? Some people see it that way. And at that point many of them decide to abstain rather than voting for "greater evil" or the machine (which is greater evil too).
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)The first candidate I did that with was Barack Obama.
But the the reality is that in a two party system. The choice is ultimately between two people, and statistically it'll b e pretty rare that one of them will match your positions well.
But I haven;t felt like I was ever voting for "evil" when voting for a Democrat for President. Someone I don;t always agree with? Sure. A flawed human being? Yup. But never evil.
randome
(34,845 posts)...unless Sanders is Jesus Christ, we are ALWAYS voting for the lesser of two evils.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Neither of our candidates are evil. I will enthusiastically vote for Hillary if she gets the nomination, and somewhat less enthusiastically (but still very contentedly) vote for Bernie if he gets it.
Either way, I am voting for my values.
DinahMoeHum
(21,774 posts)than any GOP candidate out there.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)WhiteTara
(29,692 posts)and look at what it got us.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Bernie is the first, and I am grateful he is running.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)I don't sell my vote, especially to some nefarious political party that does not represent me. If I don't see a candidate I can vote for on the ballot, I write one in.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I don't want the worse evil.
emulatorloo
(44,063 posts)helps to take some time off from DU now and again.
They are both head and shoulders above Trump, Cruz, Rubio, Kascich, and the rest of them.
I want to vote for Bernie in the GE, but I will vote for HRC if she's the nominee.
BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)Hillary is evil in my opinion, and I will not cast a vote for her under any circumstances.
emulatorloo
(44,063 posts)That's your right!
As to me as a citizen, I'll never enable the Republican apocalypse.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)KansDem
(28,498 posts)...I'll go with the true progressive who represents the people.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)the fictional protagonist from Edward Abbey's 1975 novel The Monkey Wrench Gang.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)I decided that rather than not vote, if worse comes to worse, I'll just write in the candidate I want.