Tough on crime a main policy of Clintons. Hypocritical for them to attack Bernie on his vote.

[madfloridian]

It was their baby, so to speak. They pushed "tough on crime" as one of their legacies. They were proud of it.

Now Hillary's folks are criticizing Bernie because he finally grudgingly voted for it. How low can you go to go after a candidate because he voted for the policy they pushed so hard.

Bernie did it while speaking loudly in opposition. Many other Democrats voted it for it as well. The Clintons had power even then.

The hypocrisy of these attacks on Bernie overwhelms my poor brain.

hy·poc·ri·sy
həˈpäkrəsē/
noun
noun: hypocrisy; plural noun: hypocrisies

the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.
synonyms: dissimulation, false virtue, cant, posturing, affectation, speciousness, empty talk, insincerity, falseness, deceit, dishonesty, mendacity, pretense, duplicity; More
sanctimoniousness, sanctimony, pietism, piousness;
informalphoniness, fraud
"must politics be the perennial benchmark of hypocrisy?"
antonyms: sincerity

https://www.google.com/search?q=hypocrisy&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

His words about it were strong and powerful. This WAS the policy of the CLINTONS. It's pathetic for them to attack him.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Thank you for this important thread, my dear madfloridian.

I wish I had your courage.

[madfloridian]

69. Well....

You're just nicer than I am...CAPeggy...I should stop making waves.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

70. I may be nicer publicly...........

You should hear me privately!

And NO you should not stop making waves. You do it extremely well and effectively too.

I've got your back!

[madfloridian]

71. Thank you for that.

I have had the kind of week that is a nightmare....culminating in the loss of my computer for 3 days. The kind of week where something breaks down every day....

My computer tech was here Monday, said it was even a puzzler to him but he got me up and running again.

But with all that it's like my thought processes changed. Something hit me. It's like the way the party has treated me as an outsider because I support Bernie, but they still want my vote and my money. It's like the way the Hillary campaign and surrogates started the racism issue against Bernie when none existed at all. It just all hit me that we keep doing the same things over and over and getting the same rightward drift.

I feel rebellious, and that is not like me. But it has a liberating feel to it.

[msongs]

2. spoke loudly against yet voted for it anyway? no profile in courage award for that move nt

[madfloridian]

4. And the Clintons loved it, pushed it, took pride in it. "Incarcerating a country."

[msongs]

5. evidently sanders loved it too since he voted for it. he voted for it when he could have voted no nt

[madfloridian]

6. A hypocritical comment. A huge huge difference....

[kcass1954]

52. Sometimes you hold your nose and vote for something because it's better than the alternative.

Like I'll probably do in November if Clinton is our candidate.

[rhett o rick]

17. I know you know better so why side with the Clintons that wanted to imprison those that

they wanted to "bring to heel".

Statement from BLM activist Ashley Williams:

"Here's the truth: the Clinton legacy has left our prisons bursting at the seams. Real lives have been destroyed as a result. It is an indisputable fact that millions of Black people were locked up for drug crimes and provided the bodies for the expansion of the prison industry."

Of course we know that the Prison For Profit industry supports H. Clinton.

[BainsBane]

25. You mean the crime bills Bernie voted for

That aren't his responsibility but rather all the fault of someone who was First Lady at the time.

I agree the current prison system is awful and I think those who voted for it should accept responsibility. You would seem to disagree.

[jeff47]

28. Why should Sanders have voted against the Violence Against Women Act and the

Assault Weapons Ban?

That is how the Clintons and the Republicans got their tough-on-crime legislation passed. They attached other bills to them.

Aren't Clinton supporters supposed to be the ones who know how politics works? Why are you acting as if Sanders had a line-item-veto?

[BainsBane]

32. I see you've missed the latest

http://www.buzzfeed.com/christophermassie/sanders-campaign-says-he-voted-for-crime-bill-due-to-weapons?utm_term=.cnjxP1Jaq#.vl8OWQPk7

Politicians make compromises in voting all the time, but that doesn't mean they aren't responsible for their votes. He has chosen to blame Hillary Clinton for policies he voted for. He chose to make a campaign issue out of a situation he voted to create. He has since made excuses for his vote that don't hold up, and his supporters don't care. Legislation doesn't matter; action doesn't matter. What matters is he tells you what you want to hear.

You at free to vote based on any criteria you want, but Sanders is not immune from scrutiny, as his supporters insist he should be. Not everyone values words over actions. In fact, when I see someone whose rhetoric diverges so greatly from their record, I judge them lacking in credibility. That is an entirely reasonable and logical response.

[jeff47]

33. I see you didn't read your own article.

The ban was in the version of the bill that passed the Senate. Sanders ultimately did vote for the bill with the ban in it, and President Bill Clinton signed it into law.

Oops. So much for that gotcha.

Politicians make compromises in voting all the time, but that doesn't mean they aren't responsible for their votes.

Yet you are arguing as if he had a line item veto.

You at free to vote based on any criteria you want, but Sanders is not immune from scrutiny

Wow have you not been paying attention. Enjoy your bubble.

[BainsBane]

57. You missed the point

He supported the bill before the ban was in it.
Bernie's got a handy thing going there. He can say anything and his supporters believe it, irrespective of evidence. Problem is that it doesn't broaden support. Most voters are rightly more skeptical.

You also ignored my point. I'm not talking about what he should or shouldn't have done in 94. I'm criticizing his 2016 stand, making a campaign slogan that blames everyone else for a policy he himself voted for, without acknowledging the role he played in making it creating the law. If we are to buy Bernie's excuses, the provisions he cites took priority over the creation of a caceral society. If he believes that, then why is he even criticizing the criminal justice system. The contradictions in his stated positions defy logic.

He did the same with Gitmo the other night, declaring it shameful that it's still open, when he twice voted against closing it. He doesn't take responsibility for his own actions.

The bubble in which the people dare to question authority rather than uncritically repeating
What a politician says? That's not a bubble. It is what it means to be a responsible, engaged citizen.

[George II]

62. Turning that around, why should Hillary Clinton be blamed for the Violence Against Women Act...

...and the Assault Weapons Ban?

Works two ways, you know.

[jeff47]

68. You'd have to describe something that actually "works" for it to work both ways.

Bill Clinton and the Republicans, with lobbying from Hillary Clinton, left Sanders with a choice of opposing the entire bill, or voting for the entire bill.

When you blame Sanders for not opposing one part of the bill, you are also calling for him to oppose the rest of the bill.

If Hillary Clinton wanted to trumpet VAWA and AWB while decrying the "tough on crime" parts of the bill, that would be lovely. She didn't do that.

[rhett o rick]

55. So let's see if we can guess your point. I think you agree that the bill was devistating to

minority communities as well as all of the 99%. So the fact that Sanders reluctantly (as he made clear over and over) he is as bad as Clinton who championed the bill. The Clintons are not friends of the AA community nor any community in the 99%. They have been very successful at amassing an enormous wealth which is their main goal.

"The choice is stark, keep living under corporate rule under Hillary and watch things get worse, or go with Bernie and fight TPTB to regain our Representative Democracy!"

[BainsBane]

56. I think the 99 % and AAs

are perfectly capable of deciding who best represents their interests. We don't need to take instructions from the well-heeled on how to vote.

Corporate rule? Like GE and Big Pharma? I hear they pay some hefty salaries. As for Wall Street, not quite sure why Citibank is okay but Goldman isn't.

Cast your own vote and let us plebes vote as we see fit. We don't allocate votes in this country according to wealth. Yours counts no more or less than mine or anyone else's. It's in the 15th amendment. Look it up.

The point of my post was his vote for the crime bill. It wasn't about one perenter anger at other one percenters.

[rhett o rick]

59. I am not sure why you think it appropriate to claim that I am wealthy. You don't know me.

I do wonder why people worship the wealthy. I certainly don't. I've seen first hand the results of what the corrupt culture of Big Money in politics has done to people's lives. Some very close to me.

You certainly can't think that Clinton and her wealth and her wealthy friends will actually help the "plebes" as you call us?

And the point of my response was to point out that while Sen Sanders reluctantly voted for the bill and tried to change is time and again, Clinton (boy she is tough) championed the bill. And she has benefited from the growth of the Prisons For Profits that are using her toughness for profits.

"The choice is stark, keep living under corporate rule under Hillary and watch things get worse, or go with Bernie and fight TPTB to regain our Representative Democracy!"

[BainsBane]

60. There is indeed a stark difference

Clinton has accepted responsibility for her role in promoting the crime bill. Sanders has insisted he bears no responsibility, despite the fact his votes helped make it law. The other night he announced that it's shameful that Gitmo hasn't been closed. Indeed it is, yet Sanders also voted twice against closing it.

Your undying admiration for one man doesn't constitute a change in the system. You're great at repeating slogans but less adept at backing them up with substance.

In the interest of transparency, the FEC lists names of campaign donors, including those cases where campaigns have accepted donations from individuals that violate limits set by federal law. You should have a look sometime. It can be quite illuminating.

I'm sorry you feel your one vote as guaranteed by the constitution inadequate that you begrudge the rights of those of us who can't afford $1.3 million dollar homes to exercise our own democratic decisions.

Today was a historic turnout for African Americans in S Carolina, a greater percentage of the electorate (61%) that at any point in history, breaking the 55% record set in 2008. That is something everyone should celebrate.

[PeaceNikki]

61. Beautifully said.

[MaggieD]

64. +1

[rhett o rick]

65. How sad that some choose to worship the Wealthy. The Oligarchy doesn't love you. nm

[BainsBane]

66. Don't let the election get you down, Rhett

Count your many blessings and have a lovely evening with your family.

Perhaps some classic TV would make you feel better.

[Milliesmom]

22. The way bills are written

Violence Against Women was included in this bill, the only reason Bernie voted for it, he was trying to protect women, The Violence Against Women Act would not stand alone and would not be passed, so it did pass inside the crime bill.

[Uncle Joe]

42. Yes, here is Bernie speaking about that issue and you can bet if he had voted against the bill

many of the these same people would be condemning him for not protecting women from abuse.

[jeff47]

26. Why should Sanders have voted against the Violence Against Women Act and the

Assault Weapons Ban?

The way the Clintons got their "tough on crime" bill passed was to attach other legislation to it.

And we know that you would be screaming about voting against VAWA and AWB if Sanders had voted against the bill for the "tough on crime" parts.

Aren't the Clinton supporters supposed to be the ones who know how politics works? Congresspeople don't have a line-item-veto.

[TTUBatfan2008]

58. If he voted against it...

...Hillary would attack him for not supporting the Violence Against Women Act, which was part of the crime bill.

[KingFlorez]

3. Not really an attack, but an emphasis on the truth

Sanders did vote for the bill and it is on the record.

[madfloridian]

8. Baloney...that is obviously NOT what I am saying.

[That Guy 888]

24. So you wouldn't have said Sanders was pro-rape or against women if he had voted against it?

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/26/11116412/bernie-sanders-mass-incarceration

Sanders framed the 1994 crime law as a compromise

While the Clintons have defended the 1994 crime law until quite recently, Sanders was always careful to point out that he saw the law as a compromise — and regularly stated his concerns with mass incarceration.

In 1994, for example, he said that he would support it because it included the Violence Against Women Act, which helped crack down on domestic violence and rape. Sanders said:

I have a number of serious problems with the crime bill, but one part of it that I vigorously support is the Violence Against Women Act. We urgently need the $1.8 billion in this bill to combat the epidemic of violence against women on the streets and in the homes of America.

Earlier in the year, Sanders suggested that he did not see the tough-on-crime parts of the bill as the right solution to crime:

It is my firm belief that clearly there are people in our society who are horribly violent, who are deeply sick and sociopathic, and clearly these people must be put behind bars in order to protect society from them.

But it is also my view that through the neglect of our government and through a grossly irrational set of priorities, we are dooming today tens of millions of young people to a future of bitterness, misery, hopelessness, drugs, crime, and violence. And, Mr. Speaker, all the jails in the world — and we already imprison more people per capita than any other country — and all of the executions … in the world will not make that situation right.

We can either educate or electrocute. We can create meaningful jobs, rebuilding our society, or we can build more jails. Mr. Speaker, let us create a society of hope and compassion, not one of hate and vengeance.

[kgnu_fan]

7. kick for you....

[madfloridian]

9. Appreciate the kick. It won't get many recs at all. So many have me on ignore.

But it is the truth.

[kgnu_fan]

10. Always sun rises...

[jhart3333]

15. I don't have you on ignore. Kick.

[haikugal]

11. Thanks Madfloridian...excellent post.

K&R!

[Waiting For Everyman]

12. Agree madflo, and he didn't vote for this,

he voted for the Violence Against Women provisions and the assault weapons provisions which this version of the bill contained. He knew it was going to pass anyway, the question was with these parts included or not.

As usual, he made the right call. This is a good example of how he is actually the "practical progressive", in getting done the good that was possible at the time, in the midst of the bad that couldn't be prevented.

Hillary was the force behind the bad. (Film clips of her promoting it prove that.)

If anyone cannot see the difference in his actions and hers, it's a waste of time discussing it with them. (As the Bible saying goes, "There are none so blind as those who will not see".)

This has been brought up 3 times by the Hillary contingent that I have commented on it, and I saw it at least that many times, also by them, that I didn't comment... it is becoming intentional spam at this point. It's pretty hypocritical to keep bringing up claims that have been repeatedly debunked, too.

Since we're on this subject again, there is one point on this subject which hasn't been made yet. We did not know then, and Bernie did not know then, no one knew then that at the very same time that this Crime Bill was being passed (on phony stats much like the Iraq War, but that's another topic), the private prison industry was being created. We did not have private prisons at that time. It was a brand new thing.

The fact that this law soon doubled the prison population, and the fact that the Clintons were involved at the very same time in setting up prisons for profit (Al Gore too, I'm sad to say), is twice as reprehensible as we knew at the time. That is a whole different dimension of moral depravity. It is slavery all over again. And that is why Hillary coralling the black vote and bragging about it as she does is simply intolerable for any moral person.

Thanks for the thread. Clearly it's needed, to clear the air and set the record straight.

[Milliesmom]

23. You stated it so much better then I did in my post.

[SoapBox]

13. No...More...Clintons.

America and Americans cannot take more of a Clinton in charge.

[Live and Learn]

14. Is their anyone naive enough to claim they aren't hypocrites. nt

[thesquanderer]

16. Clinton being hypocritical? Stop the presses! (n/t)

[AtomicKitten]

18. Bernie is on the record - clear as can be - and the accusation from ClintonWorld is subterfuge.

It transcends hypocritical. Their audacity is not defending the Clintons' zeal in pushing this policy through but rather attacking Bernie for it when he has made his position crystal clear. It's lame fodder for her uninformed fans.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. It is rovian

[FangedNoumenom]

19. "But he did it too!"

is literally toddler logic

[Nyan]

20. Oh you can always count on them to be hypocritical. You bank on it.

It's not even the first time the Clintons point finger at Bernie for the bill they themselves have pushed and signed.

"The Clintons have no shame, that much you can count on"

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/hillary_blames_bernie_for_an_old_clintonite_hustle_rotten_shame_20160119

[BainsBane]

29. I wasn't aware First Ladies signed legislation

Last edited Sat Feb 27, 2016, 04:55 AM - Edit history (1)

That would come as quite a revelation, and it is of course unconstitutional. Hillary Clinton is one person, an individual. Wives are no longer owned by their husbands. She signed no law. She did vote for laws as a Senator, just as Bernie has, among them the very crime bills you insist he is not responsible for.

[Waiting For Everyman]

38. She promoted the Crime Bill in the media.

That is where the clips come from that feature her talking about it, using language that is highly objectionable now: terms like "super-predator" and "bring them to heel". Several of those clips of her promoting the Crime Bill and Welfare Reform are in this video, and I'm sure more may be googled:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511346920

She "made the rounds" on all the news shows selling it. It's no exaggeration to say she fully endorsed it.

And this too... she constantly claims her time as First Lady as being experience on her own "resume". Otherwise, her government background would look pretty skimpy. So she doesn't get to shrug on this one and wash her hands of it. Doing that is, in itself, a lie.

[beam me up scottie]

49. Exactly, thank you!

[liberal_at_heart]

21. K&R

[BainsBane]

27. Bernie made it a campaign issue

Despite voting for it, and despite claiming he did so because of a ban on automatic weapons, when in fact he supported the bill before that provision was inserted. http://www.buzzfeed.com/christophermassie/sanders-campaign-says-he-voted-for-crime-bill-due-to-weapons?utm_term=.cnjxP1Jaq#.vl8OWQPk7

The hypocrisy is not that he is making a campaign issue over something he helped make law through his vote in congress, but that People dare to point out the discrepancies. The hypocrisy would seem to be having the audacity to care about what politicians actually do rather than what they say.

Bernie chose to make this a campaign issue. The notion that no one is allowed to discuss his
Voting record and should instead uncritically repeat his claims is absurd. Votes have a responsibility to inform themselves, and no politician has a right or expectation not to be vetted. Such demands for absolute deference to authority is antithetical to an engaged citizenry and democracy itself.

[madfloridian]

31. More baloney. Of course it's okay to discuss his votes, ALSO okay to discuss Clinton hypocrisy.

His votes are fair game....but this one was for the Clinton's planned legacy. At least he spoke fervently against it...they celebrated it. Big difference.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. Her buddy DWS is in the times clamoring for more pot smokers in prison.

The fact that Hillary still hasnt repudiated her speaks volumes.

[silvershadow]

35. I am supporting Tim Canova for Congress in Florida's 23rd

I wish I could be down there on the ground.

[Warren DeMontague]

48. Me, too.

DWS is a disaster for our party.

[silvershadow]

34. It was an insane right-wing policy, brought to us by the Third Way and President Clinton.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. That is becuase either many of these folks do not undersatand how these votes happen

no it is not school house rock. That would not shock me, civics 101 is not the strong suit of many americans, and that includes those who pretend to be involved in politics, Or there are ulterior motives. Your milage will vary.

To be honest, I am willing to go for the former since we really no longer educate people on the fantasy ideal version of civics, see school house rock, let alone the reality of it.

So I offer this, for people to get that necessary education, This is your legislature, the real deal... and damn it, these games go all the way down to your very own city hall to a certain extent.

http://reportingsandiego.com/2016/02/25/claims-and-counterclaims-mass-incarceration/

[delrem]

39. Wow. That was electrifying.

And that's the speech they pulled a sentence from and, in the abstract, tried to hang him for.
The fuckers.
I tell yah, win or lose, he's started something.

[Uncle Joe]

40. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, madfloridian.

[beam me up scottie]

41. Don't forget his speech about the Violence Against Women Act in 1994, this is why he voted for it:

[senz]

43. A beautiful, passionate speech.

Bernie is horrified by what women go through. He is a deeply caring man.

[beam me up scottie]

45. He wasn't putting on a show for cameras, nothing staged or planned.

That's the Bernie Sanders I've supported all along.

Hi senz!

[senz]

46. It's always from the heart with him.

He's real.

Hey bmus! Speaking of real.

Past my bedtime. Hope tomorrow brings enough good news to keep a good thing going.

'night!

[beam me up scottie]

47. Have a good night my friend.

[senz]

44. Clinton hypocrisy in blaming him for making a difficult choice.

He gave his reasons for disliking the Clinton 1994 Crime Bill but he could not leave women in the lurch. How disgusting to see female supporters of his opponent slam him for it.

[Broward]

50. The dirty Clinton campaign could care less.

It's win at all costs. Very disappointing that more people don't see through their bullshit or care to see.

[ms liberty]

51. K&R. You are correct madfloridian. Thanks. n/t

[Jitter65]

53. No one has "attacked" Bernie for his vote. He and his supporters are attacked for their hypocrisy.

[madfloridian]

54. That is called denial, pure and simple.

[Babel_17]

63. Jeanette Johnson-Jing is on a roll

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY94H6egWc29pIX5gW0Vdow

&feature=youtu.be

Check out her channel for much more.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY94H6egWc29pIX5gW0Vdow

[azmom]

67. Kick