2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumAt whAt point does hillary look over her shoulder
And see the burnt remains of all the bridges she and her surrogates have destroyed?
At that point (since she hasnt reached it yet) what can be done to unite the party?
merrily
(45,251 posts)Last edited Sun Feb 21, 2016, 09:18 PM - Edit history (1)
Ok i looked it up
Yes very apropos.
Ino
(3,366 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)she does
Absolutely...On the button
PADemD
(4,482 posts)PonyUp
(1,680 posts)Tarc
(10,472 posts)when he tells his supporters to get behind Hill and the Democratic Party. That it wasn't a cult of personality about him, but about supporting the best candidate still running. That is what she did for Obama in 2008, and that is what he will do for her in 2016.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)We are still very early in the process.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)With the cult stuff
Hope you brought enough matches and gas
Tarc
(10,472 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)nc4bo
(17,651 posts)I wouldn't bet a dang dime on it working this time around.
Just sayin'.
merrily
(45,251 posts)You can only insult voters so much and expect them to turn around and reward you with their votes. The Clinton camp seems to think they can't possibly push this crap too far. Trust me- they can. It's not about Bernie. It's about believing we need to fix the system. She's reminding me every day that she's not the one to do it.
Tarc
(10,472 posts)Choice is yours.
840high
(17,196 posts)Tarc
(10,472 posts)as that is the reality.
840high
(17,196 posts)tactic. It's only aim is to keep us in the status quo.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)with her feces you shouldn't really place you head so firmly up there...
TDale313
(7,820 posts)So my vote won't actually make a damn bit of difference in the general. But plenty of others who don't will no longer take the bullying. You have to actually earn people's votes.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)But you arent scared of it enough to stop running off voters so how scary can it be?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)by the way, before you tell me this. I am in a deep blue state. But I agree with you, I do expect Trump to get the nomination and he has a good chance of getting the presidency. And you know who I will blame? The politics of personal destruction, Take a bow.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)Too bad so sad. Then tell her to pull out of the race and allow us to elect a President for the people. She is a poor excuse of a candidate.
Pharaoh
(8,209 posts)Hillary is a tool.
Cruz is kind of scary, creepy and I would flee the country if he were elected.
The choice is yours
humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)because I can say now your position not facing the fact that your candidate is hugely flawed and brings so much baggage, indefensibly baggage to a GE is the reason that you will get us all a TRUMP.
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)PonyUp
(1,680 posts)Jarqui
(10,110 posts)GreenPartyVoter
(72,377 posts)by virtue of just being the candidate. I will have to see what she gets done and whether she takes great leaps or baby steps in the right direction. I'll allow for a stubborn Congress, but I need to see an Administration that stakes out truly progressive policies and then sweats blood in the negotiation process to get something for us. No more negotiating with ourselves down to nothing and THEN handing it off for negotiations with the Rs.
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)We don't want anymore steps in the Right direction...
Beowulf
(761 posts)This isn't about Bernie. He's just a placeholder. This is about what we feel is fundamentally wrong in this country and for many of us the way the Clintons conduct political business is emblematic of what we see is holding back the 99%. Asking the Clintons and the Third Way to address the needs of those who are not among the elite is like asking a pig to fly. The pig might promise you he'll fly, he might even tell you he has a plan for flying, but in the end he cannot deliver because nothing in his nature will allow him to fly.
That's where many of us stand. You are asking us to accept part of the problem as the solution.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)I seriously doubt the millenials supporting Bernie will show up for status quo. And I know that hubby and I will not.
Tarc
(10,472 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)What if I don't see a whole lot of difference between those options? Blowhard# 1 vs Blowhard # 2.
Neither one cares about We, The People.
basselope
(2,565 posts)By putting forth such a weak candidate.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)she's willing to burn down the party for her own personal gain.
mpcamb
(2,855 posts)and on election day hold our noses and vote for HRC. She'll lose. Her #'s will drop like they have against Bernie in the months to come and, tho you'll never admit it, she'll lose to the weakest opponent imaginable.
Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)No matter how cute and fashionable a Pet Rock was at one time. It was still an eight dollar rock in a box. It did nothing, gave nothing, and the only value were temporary bragging rights.
By all means, Rock on
daleanime
(17,796 posts)we would be Hillary's supporters, not Bernie's. Speaking for myself, I despise people who try of use fear to get what they want.
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)Obama did in 2008 and look what happened. Can't let that happen again! Even though if HRC is the nominee, it will pretty much guarantee every Republican will go out and over against her.
Win the battle, lose the war?
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)Stealing and cheating will NOT get the votes she NEEDS.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)the one this year should launch Bernie to the Oval office!
mwooldri
(10,291 posts)Yeah, you will see all the PUMAs come out (there's Hillary PUMAs and Bernie PUMAs) (PUMA: Party Unity My A**). That's inevitable.
Bernie Sanders' campaign hasn't been and never will be about a cult of personality, so for him to say anything like that... not going to happen. He's also running quite a clean campaign, and there are people attracted to him because of this. If it is clear that Hillary will win the nomination (and it's not clear yet one way or another) then Bernie conceding and then throwing his energy behind her will pull some people around. But not everyone.
However... I have found that people who have a view about Hillary are strongly one way or another, and those who have a negative view about her are quite vocal about it. She's been in the national public eye since 1992, so she has more name recognition and time for people to form opinions about her. Though totally unscientific, my wife (not registered with any party) says that she would never vote for Hillary even if she wins the nomination. If the campaign changes things around and my wife gets behind Hillary then she'll win the White House. If people like my wife stay at home if Hillary wins the D nomination, or worse vote for the R, then Hillary will not win the general.
In any case, should a Republican win the Presidency it's going to be not that good for America for a while... but better for future years to get Democrats to run Congress. It's been a bit of a pattern lately... you get a D President (Clinton) come in, with a D Congress that goes R... a R President (Bush Jr) comes in... then Congress goes D on the R's watch... then a D (Obama) comes in... and Congress goes R... if this pattern is repeated then we'll have a R President and a R Congress for the next two years... then a D Congress.
humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)Then Donald Trump will present her Goldman Sachs transcripts and when we question those and say hey she stole this nomination from Bernie Sanders then what we are supposed to just eat it?
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)are pretty much permanent.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Like all big lies keep repeating it until its true.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)You claim discussing what the kings and queens do is now bashing them? Are the icons so far better than any of us, in your mind, that the rest of us should stfu?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)But no better than most of the rest of us.
Point is, in this country, we are allowed to discuss our dear leaders and the actions they take in our names. It's called freedom.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)them, but your assessment is just symptomatic of the problem here.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)We speak freely here and I know you have big problems with us doing so.
The problem is the establishment steals votes, lies to us to keep their power, and too many of us swallow their spew as truth. We need to clean house and put new people in office.
Which was how this country's political system was designed. WE HAVE NO MONARCHY. No one should act as if we do.
Mic drop....
merrily
(45,251 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Why in the ever living fuck should I respect a man who voted that I should not have rights equal to his own? With his votes, he has claimed to be better than entire classes of people, I find that to be despicable.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Lately, I've seen/reada lot of crud that reminds me of the Dixiecrats I grew up with.
frylock
(34,825 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)Response to SwampG8r (Original post)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
merrily
(45,251 posts)At this point, the only sane SOUNDING one at this point is Kasich and he's very extreme, IMO.
TDale313
(7,820 posts)They think they can get to the nomination and all will be forgiven, or that we'll at the very least tow the line and vote for her. She's tearing the party apart, and it is not going to come back together as easily as she thinks. The contempt and divisiveness and "we don't need or want you" arrogance coming from the Clinton camp- the attacks and smears of Bernie and his followers- the refusal to acknowledge that a huge part of the base feels the party is moving in the wrong direction- we will remember, and we will not reward these tactics.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)done to those of us who are not the 1%. We were tired of politics as usual and angry at those who caused it including her and her husband long before she started with her dirty tricks and lies.
Old Codger
(4,205 posts)She is the main instigator I am sure but she has a large following in the 1% and upper class elitists in the DNC
TDale313
(7,820 posts)mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)closeupready
(29,503 posts)Not really, and particularly not her - this is what she does.
Regardless, I live in a very blue state, so she neither needs nor wants my vote, so I'm probably not going to give the most useful response.
mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)women do much better later in life than men do.....
closeupready
(29,503 posts)Given I'm in a very blue state, and I'm not inclined to give it to her, as she has not only not earned it, but earned derision in how her campaign has been cheating its way through, lol.
Cheers!
mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)or vote republican?
SHRED
(28,136 posts)If Bernie doesn't win the nomination I'll vote Green Party.
That is the luxury of living in a blue state.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Your vote is no one's business but yours.
I've seen several posts about DU's right making lists they intend to use to get people banned if she's the nominee
People started asking me if I'd vote for Hillary if she were the nominee two years ago. I'm so sick of this Joe McCarthy crap.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)It's nothing new from me.
I knew Obama had California so I voted Green.
If I get banned for saying this after years of donating to this site then so be it. I'd never come back.
mountain grammy
(26,571 posts)we're hanging on by a thread. Every Democratic vote counts here. I will vote for Bernie Sanders because he will be our nominee.
amborin
(16,631 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)immerse yourself in mathematical truth
jillan
(39,451 posts)According to the U.S. Bureau of the Census, slightly over 5 percent of the 65+ population occupy nursing homes, congregate care, assisted living, and board-and-care homes, and about 4.2 percent are in nursing homes at any given time. The rate of nursing home use increases with age from 1.4 percent of the young-old to 24.5 percent of the oldest-old. Almost 50 percent of those 95 and older live in nursing homes.
http://nursinghomediaries.com/howmany/
Enjoy your immersing.
mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)you find young men there put there by there wives who are still out there functioning in the world or you find very old widows...who are at the very end who's husbands have already passed on....so you find single old men that will die sooner than the single widowed women that are a decade or more older than they are ....women don't end up in nursing homes until far later in their chronological lives...because biologically they are functional longer
840high
(17,196 posts)home - this is not what I see. Predominantly female residents.
mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)finish the sentence
840high
(17,196 posts)coming to see his wife. He did not die.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)He passed at 90. His mind was a sharp as ever. Lost my mom this year at 94. 74 is a great age.
Don't forget that Hillary had a blood clot in her brain.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/hillary-clinton-blood-clot-life-threatening-medical-experts/story?id=18101213
merrily
(45,251 posts)They are both more than old enough for voters not to expect much change was the point.
mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)to respond although you apparently missed the point of Reply 18. Moreover, truth trumps falsehood, regardless of whose point it was originally.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Jewish men do better than the average.
mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)of jewish faith are so diverse I don't think that's a mathematically correct generalization
frylock
(34,825 posts)I doubt Madame Secretary could walk from one end of the court to the other without getting winded.
mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)CentralMass
(15,265 posts)Howler
(4,225 posts)I live in dayton ohio and alot of Bernie supporters will not be falling in line with clinton if she is the nomine.
mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Surely, you know that.
Anyway, you have no business asking it. Besides, it's McCarthy-ish in the context of this board.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Its unbecoming trying to bait people into hides.or.pprs
Its like you hate opposing views enough.to silence posters.
Imho.it shows.a.certain meanspiritedness that is offputting
mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)Some people are like screen doors. See-through.
Howler
(4,225 posts)However they have a socialist ticket here as well as third party.
The thing that is also different in this election year is the way the establishment has kicked up into high gear into trying to ram hillary down our throats.
I think you can count on alot of folks leaving the democratic party too.
I am a 56 year old woman who has voted democratic my whole life.....but there are alternatives besides republican.
mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)my lifelong republican bro is voting dem this year...HRC
Howler
(4,225 posts)Has I said I will never vote republican.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)Just because we won't be there for HilLIARy does not mean we voted GOP. I'm tired of the lying and the cheating and the fact that she thinks we'll be here for her in the end. Surprise we WON'T. If you don't want GOP rule, vote for Bernie. The GOP is going to tear her apart. And all of us will laugh at the HilLIARy Bubble going ape shit crazy that we're not helping to confront the "lies" being told about her.
mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)election night when she wins...there's no crying in baseball
mwooldri
(10,291 posts)mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)just curious....?
andrewv1
(168 posts)I have voted for a Democratic Candidate for President every four years now for over forty years.
If Clinton is the nominee, I will not vote & keep my record intact in not voting for a Republican or a Republican "Lite".
She's shameless with no morals just like the other side, but the main reason I won't vote for her is she's a war hawk on steroids that could easily start WW III.
No Thanks.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)Old Codger
(4,205 posts)Being among the OLD class I pretty much resent a catchall like that.. I am just as capable of learning new stuff as anyone else
closeupready
(29,503 posts)No reason to think she will.
Old Codger
(4,205 posts)she won't change her ways but has nothing at all to do with being "old" you want to put people down because of age there is a name for that ...There are a lot of us "old" people who are quite capable of functioning in a changing world and we seem to be able to adapt quite well thank you so maybe you have some prejudices about elderly people.. too bad...
closeupready
(29,503 posts)Have a great week.
Old Codger
(4,205 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)his policies and proposals, most of the millennial
and indy vote will be lost.
He can inspire people, but not make them
switch, and the HRC supporters should
come to grips with that now.
olddots
(10,237 posts)= someone who uses an agenda to mask their motives .
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Snollygoster.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)I love that word by the way, it is a good word and accurate the way it is being used here.
The other reason I like it is because during my self education, I took pains to be certain I had at least a college degree if not higher grasp of vocabulary, and now I know a new word, one I did not know an hour ago!
I greatly appreciate the gift.
merrily
(45,251 posts)outdated, but it never should have gone out of use.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x228588
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Don't think Hillary is the only one.
There is a limit to calling other people's preferred Democratic candidate an evil murderer. There is a limit to what kinds of arguments and accusations people will put up with about their beliefs and their moral practices.
Note that well. I think a lot of people are getting fed up with the charges flying against a hard-working, utterly competent Democrat like Hillary Clinton.
There's a limit out there.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)She has been in on an awful lot of bad decisions.
Thats on her.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Inability to see the other point of view is the mark of the fanatic.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)of people they hate in the name of a campaign. You think I care much about THOSE POSTERS here? Nope, not one bit.
At this point it is about the tragic comedy.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)and independents will never be attracted to and will never, ever consider voting for.
Her image is nearing the stage of being irreparable.
If Clinton and her supporters really think she has the nomination in the bag, they should be rebuilding Clinton's shattered credibility and unfavorable image. If all the candidates except the Hillary and Rubio were tragically killed in a multi-campaign-bus traffic catastrophe, and so the general election began tomorrow, it would be too late to fix her image and we would be stuck with a Rubio presidency. Clinton should not be wasting this opportunity to rehabilitate her image, but she cannot seem to help herself.
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)I'm no millennial but I too am no fan of her new self-portrait - it's her most commissioned work yet.
SamKnause
(13,043 posts)I do not think DWS cares.
I do not think the DNC establishment cares.
I am sick and tired of the Bush family.
I am sick and tired of the Clinton family.
I am sick and tired of the lying sniveling MSM.
The damage these 2 families have done to this country
and the world is incalculable.
Yuugal
(2,281 posts)mountain grammy
(26,571 posts)of being sick and tired.. and all of the above as well.
basselope
(2,565 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)at what point will her supporters on this site do that? My guess is... never. And at this point it is a group of people that deserve to be fully ignored. They know who they are.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Good to see you
You do good work
Keep your head up and push forward
You are one of the good guys
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)and income inequality, Apparently writing analysis on this shit, makes me a Sanders supporter... which I am not.
But hey, the piling and alerting continues apace.
As if I care at this point.
But i raise that issue often. Because what some posters here have done (mostly offsite) is reprehensible and then they play the victim card.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Youve always come down on the side of truth as far as i have seen and even if we disagreed i would give your opinion some consideration.
Like i said youre a good guy
Now just scuff your boots say aw shucks twernt nothing and get back to work
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And as to who I support, yup, I was told by one of these guys a funny. Let me link it
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1301622
It is a hilarious sub-thread... good for a laugh really.
dflprincess
(28,057 posts)they all expect that Bernie supporters will fall in line if Clinton gets the nomination.
That may be true for the party hacks like myself - but they're ignoring the independents who won't bother to show up or will vote Green.
If Hillary loses the general (and I expect she will), they'll never examine her actions or theirs it will just be our "fault" and they'll claim that none of us showed up. And then it will be used to move the party even further to the right.
We can talk about the coming demise of the Republican party but the Democratic party needs to wake up and figure out it's walking the same line. If it survives it will only be because moderate Republicans have taken it over as its past constituency of New Deal/Great Society Democrats look for somewhere else to go.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And I agree.
I will blame them though for it, and the politics of personal destruction.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)I havent had an op go unalerted since may so i know someone has them.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)Shit has gone too far in my opinion. The party is going to lose the GE if she is the nominee, then we are going to start wandering through the desert like the republicans have been doing since W.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)She won't have any shame for bringing us there. She's still friends with The Donald. She'll still get to visit the WH. Unless she's in jail which is what I hope the FBI does to her.
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)TIME TO PANIC
(1,894 posts)Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)It's common in election cycles. On balance, I think Hillary will do well in the general.
DrBulldog
(841 posts)Millions of Bernie supporters who have been insulted and slimed by Hillary's mob won't have amnesia this fall when they go to the polls. They will simply NOT vote for her, one of the foulest, ugliest, and most dishonest politicians the Democratic Party has ever produced. The world will shake its head at us as Donald Trump takes office.
840high
(17,196 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)Beacool
(30,244 posts)and has been insufferable, are not exactly the supporters of Hillary.
Burnt bridges? Read the hundreds of posts here that have attacked Hillary's character and that of anybody who has come out to endorse her. Then reflect on who is really burning bridges.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)well....you'll see.
Beacool
(30,244 posts)Or do you think that you can win without her supporters?
A little more civility from both sides is necessary, but MIA on this board.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)please let me know. So far that type of shit is coming from one campaign (I'm not talking about DU. I remember you from 08, you know the score as well as I do.)
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Are you saying the loyalty oath demands only go one way?
humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)if we don't turn out it is our fault, but I am waiting for Trump to drop the transcripts of her Goldman Sachs speech during the GE... If those were out now we would have a much different race going on, but unfortunately they will be used in the GE along with her potential indictment over emails and a bunch of other baggage and garbage that we will be called on to defend.... This is nuts...
TIME TO PANIC
(1,894 posts)... but I'll tell you one thing, if the democratic party doesn't want a republican sweep in November, they better hope that Sanders is the nominee.
cer7711
(502 posts)NAFTA
"Don't ask; don't tell"
reforming "welfare as we know it"
the "triangulation" of ever-rightward-moving policy as a means to forge political consensus
the deregulation of Wall Street
a vote in favor of invading Iraq
pursuing trade policies that drove up drug prices around the world
the implementation of draconian sentencing laws that gave us one of the highest incarceration rates in the world
HRC claiming she came under "sniper fire" after landing in Bosnia (Film exists of smiling children handing HRC flowers.)
HRC "golden handcuffs"--paid for by the American people & Goldman Sachs
suspicious last-minute election year reversals of long-standing support for TPP & the Keystone XL pipeline
luke-warm defense of unions
luke-warm efforts to raise the minimum (WORKING CLASS!) wage
Alert away, itchy pro-HRC fingers. I'll hold my nose and vote for HRC if she wins the nomination but you know what? It will be with exactly zero enthusiasm--and the understanding that hawkish, pro-war HRC will fix NOTHING in Washington or Wall Street.
......................
Time for the Clintons to exit politics, methinks. Experience only counts if you LEARN from it. And HRC, it seems, has learned all the wrong, cynical, word-parsing lessons from her husband and the 1%-ers that own her . . .
......................
SEE ALSO:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bill-clinton-is-sorry_us_55a83397e4b0896514d0e220
......................
AND:
In dealing with Wall Street, Clinton faced the same challenge as any lawmaker representing New York, where the financial industry includes not only constituents but campaign donors. Wall Street executives were the largest donors to both her 2006 Senate re-election bid and her 2008 presidential race; employees of just eight banking firms gave $2.67 million to those campaigns, according to data compiled by the Center for Responsive Politics, a non-profit research group.
Clinton in 2007 publicly decried a tax break for hedge-fund and private-equity executives and continues to do so in her current campaign. But she didnt sign on as a supporter of a Senate bill that would have curbed the break.
As a senator, Clinton also had a brush with the shadow-banking world that she now describes as a continuing threat to the financial system. When AIG, the giant insurance company and poster child for lightly regulated finance, began to implode in September 2008, Clinton reached out to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, who was involved in talks to rescue the firm with government funds. Her little-noticed overture came on behalf of some wealthy investors who stood to lose millions and had hired two longtime associates of the Clintons to represent them.
Brian Fallon, a spokesman for the Clinton campaign, declined to comment for this story.
https://www.propublica.org/article/hillary-clinton-mixed-record-on-wall-street-tough-cut-it-out-talk
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Depaysement
(1,835 posts)Do they really want to unite the Party? I think they just want you to vote for who they tell you to vote for, give money and don't ask for anything.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Also 9/11 and a gender. So if Sanders is denied the nomination, we had better start looking for a way to give Democratic Values a new party, since the Democratic Party, at that point, won't want them anymore.
polly7
(20,582 posts)striding in front of her to advance their interests all over the world .... she's racing to keep up. No time to look behind.