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Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:11 AM

The DU is a place of seething disgust. No wonder dems aren't

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by BooScout (a host of the 2016 Postmortem forum).

voting in primaries and caucuses. GOP trolls on the DU and elsewhere are mucking up Democratic enthusiasm. While the GOP are breaking records in participation in their primaries, Democrats are not doing well.

If Democrats have nowhere to go to feel giddy with hope on the internet, why would they vote? Any time anyone says anything positive about Hillary on the DU the trolls show up and 'seeth'. Why would anybody feel excited when the choice is to follow the 'seether', supposedly Bernie fans, or the 'seethee', Hillary? Disgust is an emotion that keeps humans away bad pathogens. What the hell is it doing in our Democratic primary race, disgust every second of every minute of every day? No wonder nobody is showing up to vote or caucus.

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Arrow 65 replies Author Time Post
Reply The DU is a place of seething disgust. No wonder dems aren't (Original post)
applegrove Feb 2016 OP
daleanime Feb 2016 #1
roguevalley Feb 2016 #17
Dem2 Feb 2016 #2
Kalidurga Feb 2016 #3
CJCRANE Feb 2016 #4
PoliticAverse Feb 2016 #8
DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2016 #26
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #35
DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2016 #5
cali Feb 2016 #12
bvf Feb 2016 #18
NurseJackie Feb 2016 #22
DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2016 #23
NurseJackie Feb 2016 #25
DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2016 #27
NurseJackie Feb 2016 #28
Laha Feb 2016 #37
DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2016 #50
cali Feb 2016 #41
Art_from_Ark Feb 2016 #46
DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2016 #51
NBachers Feb 2016 #6
Name removed Feb 2016 #7
stonecutter357 Feb 2016 #13
PoliticAverse Feb 2016 #9
NowSam Feb 2016 #10
Spider Jerusalem Feb 2016 #11
cui bono Feb 2016 #14
cantbeserious Feb 2016 #15
bvf Feb 2016 #16
applegrove Feb 2016 #19
bvf Feb 2016 #21
applegrove Feb 2016 #24
Laha Feb 2016 #40
bvf Feb 2016 #55
Mike Nelson Feb 2016 #20
narnian60 Feb 2016 #53
stone space Feb 2016 #29
applegrove Feb 2016 #32
stone space Feb 2016 #33
sahel Feb 2016 #30
EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #31
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #34
Lazy Daisy Feb 2016 #36
Paka Feb 2016 #43
ChairmanAgnostic Feb 2016 #38
mhatrw Feb 2016 #39
The Traveler Feb 2016 #42
Ken Burch Feb 2016 #44
Jitter65 Feb 2016 #45
djg21 Feb 2016 #47
Laha Feb 2016 #48
bigwillq Feb 2016 #49
DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2016 #52
bigwillq Feb 2016 #54
DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2016 #56
bigwillq Feb 2016 #57
DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2016 #59
bigwillq Feb 2016 #60
DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2016 #61
bigwillq Feb 2016 #62
DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2016 #64
Vinca Feb 2016 #58
Betty Karlson Feb 2016 #63
BooScout Feb 2016 #65

Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:13 AM

1. There's something positive to say about Hillary?

What is it? She only gets to vote for war once in a while?

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Response to daleanime (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 05:01 AM

17. I don't know which I hate more, things as they are or

the nanny posts that whine about it.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:13 AM

2. Seemed appropriate



This is the DU member formerly known as Dem2.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:17 AM

3. The GOP is not the problem.

They are a bunch of hate bags to be sure. And I hate them back. But, they are not our problem. We need to talk more to each other and just ignore the hell out of the ignorant people that have caused this country to stagnate over the last 40 or more years. It is not their fault we don't have more activists, people willing to go to primaries and caucuses, or that we have as a party not promoted our agenda with the general public and that we as a party have not reached out more to people who have been left behind by our system.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:17 AM

4. DU doesn't have that kind of influence.

The readership is fairly small in the grand scheme of things, so it reflects the prevailing mood rather than creating it.

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:25 AM

8. For some reason posters on Internet discussion boards vastly overestimate the influence of them. n/t

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 05:49 AM

26. D U is no more a reflection...

D U is mo more a reflection of the general will than Kos, Huffington Post, firedoglake, the Cave, Discussionist, and Free Republic, et cetera. It is a place where people go to get their own views shouted backed at them so they can maintain the illusion that everybody else thinks like them. That's why the folks who frequent these venues are in a perpetual state of shock, because the world doesn't conform to their parochial world views.

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 06:15 AM

35. "it reflects the prevailing mood rather than creating it."

Exactly. Even if every single DUer who said 'I'm not going to vote for Hillary' turned around and did so, she'd still be losing hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of voters who said it and meant it from the ranks of Dems and Indies who are truly disgusted with both her policy choices and the way she runs her campaigns.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:21 AM

5. Your error, my friend is thinking this site is a mirror of reality. It never was and isn't.

It is an ersatz internet watering hole where folks go to have their own views shouted back at them so they comfort themselves in the illusion that everybody thinks like them.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:43 AM

12. Your error is in thinking it doesn't reflect anything meaningful.

 

Both takes are demonstrably wrong.

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Response to cali (Reply #12)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 05:11 AM

18. Yep.

 

Makes you wonder, too, just what qualifies an internet watering hole as "ersatz." Are there genuine internet watering holes?

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 05:38 AM

22. It's a closed ecosystem ... a coral reef ...

... that has no similarities to the rest of the oceans and seas.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #22)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 05:41 AM

23. More like a unharvested vineyard where the grapes are souring...

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 05:48 AM

25. Is that how we get raisins? ;-)

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #25)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 05:50 AM

27. I am straining to make a sour grapes metaphor at 3:00 A M. Off to sleep

Good night, my friend.


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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #27)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 05:54 AM

28. You're much more clever than I.

nite nite

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #27)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 06:32 AM

37. Sour grapes

I'm sure I'm not about to make any friends here with this comment - I'm nothing but an outside observer here, but your comments only make you sound bitter that DU is no longer *your* echo chamber.

Overwhelmingly I see Hillary supporters put down Bernie supporters with similar arguments - this is an echo chamber, not representative of reality, "DU is a place of seething disgust", etc., etc. You wouldn't be saying these things if the majority were agreeing with the statements of your candidate.

You can't write off the opinions so flippantly just because you're upset that they don't share your own. And you won't win anyone over to your side by implying the opinions of the others are disgusting.

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Response to Laha (Reply #37)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:19 AM

50. My views are my views. I need not seek nor do I require validation for them.

I'm sure I'm not about to make any friends here with this comment - I'm nothing but an outside observer here, but your comments only make you sound bitter that DU is no longer *your* echo chamber.


My views are my views. I need not seek nor do I require validation for them.


Overwhelmingly I see Hillary supporters put down Bernie supporters with similar arguments - this is an echo chamber, not representative of reality, "DU is a place of seething disgust", etc., etc. You wouldn't be saying these things if the majority were agreeing with the statements of your candidate.


I labor under no illusion that my views represent the majority of DU. I do labor under the reality that my views represent the majority of Democrats and that is why Mrs. Clinton will be our nominee. That is an empirical observation and not a normative one.

You can't write off the opinions so flippantly just because you're upset that they don't share your own. And you won't win anyone over to your side by implying the opinions of the others are disgusting.


I don't know how you can make the inference that I find the opinions of others disgusting. If I thought so I would say so. I am merely describing a phenomenon and that is that folks come to sites like this, on both sides of the political spectrum , to have their views validated.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #22)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 06:48 AM

41. Lol. And so is kos and reddit and well, the internet

 

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 07:15 AM

46. So why do you come here,

if it's such an echo chamber?

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Response to Art_from_Ark (Reply #46)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:26 AM

51. Thank you for asking me.

Art_from_Ark
46. So why do you come here,
View profile
if it's such an echo chamber?


I come to and contribute to the maintenance of this site because I believe in its mission:

Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice


and I have friends here. May I inquire as to why you come?

Thank you in advance.
DSB

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:21 AM

6. The Democrats had this; but the Demo- trolls are going to hand it to the republicans.

After they've finished committing Democratic Party Suicide, there will be no way to rebuild the ruins to beat the republicans in the general election.

The Acolytes will abandon the party they've temporarily occupied, leaving smoldering devastation behind.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)


Response to Name removed (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:43 AM

13. " this posts has been hidden by a DU Jury" DanTex.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:26 AM

9. You can't expect people to be really interested in a contest if a winner has already been anointed.

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:31 AM

10. and the anointed one displays contempt

...for the truth, for the people, for fair play. A house divided cannot stand but a would be leader who engages in divide and conquer strategies 24/7 doesn't inspire me one iota.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:35 AM

11. I've voted Democratic in every election since I could vote.

I did not vote for Hillary in the 2008 primary. I will not be voting for her in this primary. I do not think that she is a good candidate; I do not think she would be a good president. This does not make me a troll. For the most part I've been keeping my opinions on this primary so far to myself and trying not to get involved in what seems to be mostly ill-natured and ugly sniping from supporters of both candidates; however I'm also observant enough to've noticed that most of the criticism of Clinton on this forum, specifically, is from the left, and thus pretty fucking unlikely to be coming from "GOP trolls" (but you can tell yourself that, if it makes you feel better).

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:49 AM

14. How is Hillary the "seethee" when she's the one starting all the smear campaigns and lying

about Sanders?

.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:58 AM

15. This Revolt Has Been Building For Years - The DWS, DNC, DLC, Third-Way Has Only Themselves To Blame

eom

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 05:00 AM

16. And yet, here you are.

 

If Democrats have nowhere to go to feel giddy with hope on the internet, why would they vote?


Maybe a sense of social responsibility?

Maybe you need to feel "giddy" from an internet site in order to vote. I vote to make a difference, and assume most grownups do too.

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Response to bvf (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 05:16 AM

19. Social network that releases hormones of social connectedness.

I find good information makes me giddy too. And connected. I don't think we want people with only one type of reason for getting political. A big tent is the goal no? People have been commenting on how depressing the democratic race is. That doesn't serve us at all. People should find some meaning in getting political. You need that to fight at one's best.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #19)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 05:27 AM

21. That wasn't what you said.

 

Do you suggest that a "big tent" implies that criticism of one's party (or certain candidates within it) is off-limits?

If so, you need to review your civics.

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Response to bvf (Reply #21)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 05:47 AM

24. I believe that if one out of two candidates is dehumanized

constantly, with no we bit of sunlight allowed to shine on her person without getting shot down with seething anger that she still exists, that her narrative as a person is destroyed, then we are all victims and we all lose. That the thing with dehumanization....the doers are victims of their own actions. It is an early step in doing a holocaust. Of course criticize. But to dehumanize? That should never be okay.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #24)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 06:43 AM

40. Dehumanizing your candidate is an early step to a holocaust?

I've seen many people criticize Hillary for many things. I've also seen some horrible people dehumanize her.

On these boards, as an observer with no outside objective I have witnessed far more reasonable criticism of Hillary than dehumanization. DU is still a good place to go for meaningful conversation.

Please don't try to link criticism with your candidate to holocaust style dehumanization - I promise you are only damaging your own credibility.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #24)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:47 AM

55. Holy shit, but that's a stretch.

 

Criticize Clinton for her unending fealty to Wall Street, her penchant for war, her race-baiting, her propensity to lie through her teeth, or the twenty-odd other things that make her unfit for the presidency--and the next thing you know, we're exterminating people by the millions.

Good god almighty.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 05:23 AM

20. The turnout...

...is a warning sign for Democrats. I'm surprised at the Republicans' record turnout - but there is hope in that those people are, in my opinion, voting on anger. They see a Black President, a possible female (or Jewish) successor, and Gay people getting married... They are negative voters. The Republicans are in more disarray than Democrats, despite the mud-slinging on DU. Hopefully the Republicans' angry mob will succumb to the Democrat's fair and optimistic message.

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Response to Mike Nelson (Reply #20)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:42 AM

53. I agree.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 05:58 AM

29. Turnout was pretty good at my (Iowa) precinct.

 

No wonder nobody is showing up to vote or caucus.


Oddly enough, not one single caucus participant even so much as mentioned DU the entire evening.

Who told you that folks weren't showing up?



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Response to stone space (Reply #29)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 06:06 AM

32. Someone posted it on the DU.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #32)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 06:09 AM

33. And somebody replied on DU as well. (nt)

 

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 05:59 AM

30. The Left is used to being told to get in behind

 

its what they get told election after election, when the party serves up some stand-for-nothing centrist and the Left gets told to vote for them anyway otherwise we'll get stuck with the Republicans.

Its not going to plan this time. A leftist has a genuine shot at the nomination since...shit, I can't even remember. And just listen to them squeal.

It never works the other way. If the Left wins the nomination the Centrists will fuck them over blind. Its not just here. Look what the Blairites are doing to Jeremy Corbyn in the UK. It works the same in any country.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 06:06 AM

31. why would anyone

feel optimistic about Hillary in the first place?

There's the basic flaw in your premise.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 06:12 AM

34. You don't need trolls to be disgusted with Hillary.

Yes, she's done some good things in her time. But she's chosen... poorly... in a lot of her policy decisions over time, helping cause a lot of pain and suffering both at home and abroad.

Why is 'nobody showing up to vote or caucus'? Maybe you could take that question up with DWS of the coronation committee.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 06:17 AM

36. Yep

 

There you go, blame it ALL on the Bernie supporters.

I've seen thread after thread of Bernie supporters with hat in hand trying to make nice. Not one from any Hillary supporters, only thread after thread about how we need to get in line if she wins the nomination.

Not one, not one Hillary supporter has come out and said they don't like the way she is running a racial/gender dividing campaign. And of the very few that admit it, they say tough beans, politics are rough. And how about the contempt her supporters have for the youth supporting Bernie. Some of those youth are MY children you are talking about.

Those poor kids are fighting for THEIR future, and what they see coming from her campaign is one icon after another lie to them, berate them and demean them.

And IF she makes it to the GE when they don't turn out for her, they'll be blamed instead of putting the blame where it belongs with her and her campaign.

She needs to EARN the votes and she's not.

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Response to Lazy Daisy (Reply #36)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 06:56 AM

43. +100000

Welcome to DU!

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 06:32 AM

38. Yeah, well, she has that effect on people.

That is part of her baggage.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 06:34 AM

39. WE LOVE WALL STREET AND THE THIRD WAY!!!

HOORAY!

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 06:54 AM

42. I have been a lifelong Democrat

 

My daddy was a Democrat. My mom was a Democrat.

The Clintons have me ready to bail to the Green Party.

It is all about what they do, what they say ... and above all how they savage language to shift position while claiming they were right all along.

At some point, an honest person just hits the wall.

But ... the Green Party just doesn't get the Black Lives Matter thing and how fucking important that is. As an environmentalist, I assure you it is vital. (Poor, racially marginalized folk always experience ecological problems first. So their cause is where the front lines are found. That simple. Time for white folk that stand fucking tall for people of color. Long past time, actually.)

Trav

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 06:58 AM

44. Disgust posts here?

 

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 07:04 AM

45. I think you see that the response to your post, which should give us pause, is equally disgusting.

 

I frequent many boards during this election cycle and this is one of two places where, I believe, the posters are doing irreparable harm to the Democrat party. No matter if Bernie or Hillary wins we need to pull together. I believe that the elder woman on the stage could not clearly hear what was going on in the frenzy but she did hear the moderator say "English only." We should at least give time for her to explain her misunderstanding. At least give the opposing campaign time to correct the record. At a time when the GOP is putting up some of the most disgusting candidates she should be circling the wagons around both our candidates instead of making ourselves look bad.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 07:20 AM

47. DU is an intolerant place.

 

You either subscribe to the DU groupthink, or the piling-on begins. These are not GOP trolls for the most part, but misguided DU members who seem to think that only they may divine what is best for the Democratic Party. Even reasonable disagreement is not tolerated. I thought there was a rule about not bashing Democratic candidates, but I guess that only applies when the Candidate has been anointed by DU.

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Response to djg21 (Reply #47)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 07:59 AM

48. It's just not true

The reason I lurk here is because of the intelligent conversation and inclusion of ideas and differing opinion. There are a lot of other places I could choose to get my information from, but there are many good reasons why I still come back here.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:12 AM

49. DU has little influence over how a large majority votes

 

DU is not the reason.

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Response to bigwillq (Reply #49)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:29 AM

52. Up thread, somebody asked why I come here...

We disagree on candidates but I come here because of people like you. You seem like a nice guy.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #52)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:46 AM

54. Thank you

 

You seem like a nice human.
We may disagree at times, but that's part of the fun.
Have a good one.

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Response to bigwillq (Reply #54)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:48 AM

56. I am a nice guy. I just am passionate about what I believe in.

But you are one of my favorite posters. I chuckled when you inadvertently suggested you were a HRC supporter by voting in one of my polls. I don't know if you remember it.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #56)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:52 AM

57. I like voting in polls

 

lol

And I don't like threads that say "Hillary supporters only" or "Bernie supporters only"

Threads should include all DUers. Plus, those threads are always skewered anyway.

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Response to bigwillq (Reply #57)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:55 AM

59. I don't want to pry but I believe you said you are a sportswriter. That's my other passion.

DSB

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #59)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 09:01 AM

60. I am.

 

Writing about sports? Or sports?

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Response to bigwillq (Reply #60)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 09:05 AM

61. Mostly watching

Do you cover Big Apple sports?


My dad and uncle were boxers, the former an amateur, and the latter a pro. They used to take me to MSG to see the Golden Gloves as a kid. That was the old Garden.


Are there any sportswriters you especially like?

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #61)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 09:08 AM

62. No, we mainly get Big Apple sports from the AP

 

Occasionally one of our guys will go down and cover, but I never have.



No one in particular, which probably sounds strange.

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Response to bigwillq (Reply #62)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 09:12 AM

64. I liked A. J. Liebling.

The first major magazine piece on Cassius Marcellus Clay was written by the greatest of all boxing writers, Liebling, in a 1962 issue of The New Yorker. Liebling had the spectacular good fortune to see the young boxer-poet get dumped on his seat by a tough journeyman named Sonny Banks. Clay was raw and unorthodox, but as Liebling wrote, "Honest effort and sterling character backed by solid instruction will carry a man a good way, but unearned natural ability has a lot to be said for it.''


I must have read over twenty five books on Ali.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:52 AM

58. I think you're giving DU way too much credit.

We are a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of Democratic voters. The impact of this site and our chatter on the election is pretty much zilch with the exception of directing people to fundraising sites. What makes it seem "disgusting" is that we are well versed on the issues and the candidates, unlike most people who turn up to vote. It's all subjective, anyway. What's "disgusting" to you may be "fact" to me and vice versa.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 09:12 AM

63. The disgust is at the status quo. But thanks for still being tone-deaf.

 

I'm sure things will work out for you.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 09:59 AM

65. Locking...

Disruptive Meta discussion is forbidden.

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