2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary Clinton: I Could Compromise on Abortion If It Included Exceptions For Mother's Health
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/29/hillary_clinton_i_could_compromise_on_abortion_if_it_included_exceptions_for_mothers_health.htmlAgain, I am where I have been, which is that if there's a way to structure some kind of constitutional restriction that take into account the life of the mother and her health, then I'm open to that. But I have yet to see the Republicans willing to actually do that, and that would be an area, where if they included health, you could see constitutional action.
"structure some kind of constitutional restriction"?!
mikehiggins
(5,614 posts)OH, wait a minute. I'm a guy. Abortion doesn't apply to me.
Denying women the right to control their own bodies does.
This is the problem I have with HRC and the Big Dog. They'll compromise on anything if it advances their plans. I'm just too simple a person to handle the nuance of taking a position just a little away from Rubio's.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)as Obama DID!
Medicare - safe under Clinton?
Bohemianwriter
(978 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)I think she sees it as the proper direction.
She is a creature of Wall Street and the 1%. It's simply where she wants to go
Bohemianwriter
(978 posts)..and their corporate "personhood"...
Wonder if Hillary is against the corporate death penalty, or if she is only supportive of killing real humans in the name of her state...
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)There a post around here now about this one...regarding a SCOTUS appointment
Bohemianwriter
(978 posts)But I guess she is only against the part with "dark money"...
I would choose Lawrence Lessig for the post and THREATEN any protesting republicans if they dared to vote against my choice...
I would go Karl Rove on them if they obstructed...
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)And claims to be religious, so this doesn't surprise me at all. Yes, she says as long as it protects the life of the mother. What about when the child will be born with serious, life-threatening, or permanent brain damage that will make their life a living hell on earth?
What about the right to not suffer and be forced to be born.
I'm all for legal euthanasia for humans, as long is it's decided by reasonable people (not for monitary gain...sorry grandkids). People should be able to die with dignity, not suffer because life is so damned precious. It's religion that has fucked this up. Religion says it's god's place to decide when you live or die...well fuck that. I don't like a lot of his decisions on that issue.
BTW, I'm an atheist, so I don't believe there is a god or an all-powerful entity that has anything to do with our lives or deaths.
Clintons been known to carry a Bible in her purse but, she told the 2007 CNN Faith Forum, advertising her faith doesnt come naturally to me. Every vote Clinton made as a senator from New York, she said, was a moral responsibility.
http://www.religionnews.com/transmission/5-faith-facts-hillary-clinton-social-gospel-methodist-core/
So, Hillary, all those people who died or were injured in the war on Iraq...that was your moral decision?
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Response to Ferd Berfel (Reply #29)
zigby This message was self-deleted by its author.
Depaysement
(1,835 posts)Or am I reading this incorrectly?
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Just wow.
I thought I had a reading comprehension problem.
840high
(17,196 posts)No, you are not.
Fla Dem
(23,650 posts)emulatorloo
(44,116 posts)Republicans are against all abortion including late term ones where life health of mother is at stake. GOP wants those women to die.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)scottie55
(1,400 posts)Muuuust Triangulate....Muuuuuust Triangulate.....Muuuust Triangulate....Muuuuuust Triangulate.....Muuuust Triangulate....Muuuuuust Triangulate.....Muuuust Triangulate....Muuuuuust Triangulate.....Muuuust Triangulate....Muuuuuust Triangulate.....
I am sure this is what goes through her head every second of every day.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)Duppers
(28,120 posts)Dang! what a statement! Let her try.
Even if, as I learned down thread, she was speaking of late term abortions. This alone would cause me not to vote for her. This issue is very personal. I'll discuss it only if asked.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)LOL That's great!
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)She's had time to change her position...I wonder what it is today and what it'll be tomorrow.
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)Or double-talk, or lying.
No Hillary. No How. No Way!
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)Careful. Don't step in the evolving.
demwing
(16,916 posts)Arazi
(6,829 posts)a wink to the evangelicals
Uhm hello?!, there's no shame or stigma having an abortion. It's a private medical decision between a woman and her doctor. Period.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Arazi
(6,829 posts)[div class="excerpt"
Snip
Make abortion rare by supporting adoption & foster care
I think abortion should remain legal, but it needs to be safe and rare. And I have spent many years now, as a private citizen, as first lady, and now as senator, trying to make it rare, trying to create the conditions where women had other choices.
Snip
Edited to add link
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Abortion.htm
yodermon
(6,143 posts)he left office.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)'evolve' with the polls, I mean times.
Sparkly
(24,149 posts)CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Arazi
(6,829 posts)bunnies
(15,859 posts)ladjf
(17,320 posts)Faux pas
(14,667 posts)for anybody but herself.
handmade34
(22,756 posts)discussion... only part of the interview was played in that clip...
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)ban on abortion unless you're going to die? I have no access beyond my phone and a busy office.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)handmade34
(22,756 posts)to 3rd term abortion... playing part of a clip is disingenuous..
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)She supported a ban on late term abortions before but I thought she had evolved.
kath
(10,565 posts)And PP and NARAL endorsed her over Sanders WHY, exactly??
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)conservative on social issues obviously. Gay Marriage-no until 2013 and now this.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)That's why the unprecedented primary endorsement. Sanders record is every bit as good, if not better, than Clinton's. I've never heard him willing to put choice on the negotiating table.
kath
(10,565 posts)Fuck's sake, where Bernie has never said any such thing. Bernie is better on choice than she is (and I wonder if he's ever used that "safe, legal and RARE" bullshit line and other things in an effort to cozy up to the right wing whackjobs)
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)a matter for the woman and her doctor.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)What she is willing to sacrifice is a woman's right to privacy about her medical records.
A doctor is unlikely to do a late term abortion.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)3rd term abortions are almost 100% because there is a medical problem. And if there is a small percent of women who couldn't just make up their damn minds (I say that because you know women they just can't seem to make a decision any time soon amiright or amiright ladies) about whether or not they want/can afford/want to sacrifice their time money and lives to have a child in just a few short months. So you have all these women going in when they are 8 months and 3 weeks pregnant wanting to get an abortion so yeah I guess I see the point of saying only if it's a for sure real emergency. I guess it's okay though to put another woman's life at risk because you want to stop the wishy washy woman from getting an abortion moments before she goes into labor for real.
ybbor
(1,554 posts)DebbieCDC
(2,543 posts)and THIS is what DWS and the DNC are shoving down our throats for the nominee?
Not in a million years would this person get my vote for anything.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)them getting hurt/killed. But Congress doesn't give a shit when they vote for more war. They don't give a shit about women either.
Paper Roses
(7,473 posts)Duckfan
(1,268 posts)There you go. What a perfect attitude for a candidate.
Endorse me so I can give you the middle finger later.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)kath
(10,565 posts)It is utterly beyond me why anyone would want to vote for her.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And her supporters wonder why we say Bernie is better for women.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)Vinca
(50,267 posts)No compromise on Roe . . . period.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)HRC will say anything to anyone.
This is why I don't believe one word she says.
AllyCat
(16,178 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)I have always taken her to task for the whole "rare" phrase and I will take her to task for it in the future. However, I fully trust Cecile Richards and Ilyse Hogue in their vetting of her on this issue.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)She was not. She was talking about third trimester abortions.
Almost all--possibly 100 percent--of third trimester abortions are performed due to some health problem affecting the mother, the fetus or both. So the number of women affected by this policy would be approximately zero.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)LastLiberal in PalmSprings
(12,582 posts)She could privatize Social Security, completely deregulate the banks and other businesses, eliminate abortion and restrictions on guns, terminate the Department of Education and the EPA, drill baby drill, etc., and the Right will never vote for her, just because her name is Hillary Clinton.
All she's doing is alienating the very people she needs to win the GE, like Democrats.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)yourout
(7,527 posts)colorado_ufo
(5,733 posts)Once a mandate concerning any form of abortion becomes part of the CONSTITUTION, then you are looking at charging a woman with a federal offense, and it comes into question whether or not her doctor has committed a federal offense and both could be incarcerated. Her medical records would become the property of a jury, and it would be up to medically unqualified individuals to determine whether or not the abortion was an appropriate measure to protect the health of the mother. It is not a matter of being "reasonable" and allowing exceptions; one must look at the far-reaching consequences of criminalizing abortions. That being said, no ethically responsible doctor would abort a fetus capable of independent life without justification.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)farleftlib
(2,125 posts)There is no reason to accommodate Republicans on their mission to make women brood mares. So what if there are "reasonable" exceptions included? Reasonable to whom? We don't put women's rights on the table, Hillary. EVER!
kristopher
(29,798 posts)CTyankee
(63,903 posts)but she was far enough along so my grandson was delivered by C section and was fine. But it was scary indeed. She wasn't making blood platelets and was in lots of pain which wasn't labor. Just thinking about it now makes me a bit shaky. He is now 11 and, apart from a vision problem that will be corrected when his eyes are full sized, he is doing well. It's interesting, his faulty vision has enhanced his hearing skills...he is in 6th grade at a foreign language school where he has been enrolled in Italian class, everything including math and science is taught in the language, and with the help of a native speaking Italian teacher, has near-native Italian. His maestra is from Rome so I suspect he has a Roman accent...
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)For those of you not familiar with the area, southern Connecticut is very Italian. A trip to New Haven's Wooster St. or Bridgeport's less well-known Madison Ave. will confirm this. The Italian dialect of choice, however, is not Roman but Neapolitan, nor Sicilian as it would be in the rest of the Northeast (in SF's North Beach, Genovese rules).
CTyankee
(63,903 posts)a middle school for Dante but has come up with some real problems.
He's a pale skinned, blue eyed blond and hearing this perfect Italian roll out is pretty amazing. When he was a bit younger, he and his Italian class buddies playing kickball in a nearby park would employ a strategy of breaking into Italian to direct game strategy against the other teams. Pretty funny...
zigby
(125 posts)I'm not sure if you are playing coy or you're really not paying fuckin attention but the erosion of abortion access is one of the most alarming threats to our constitutional rights that exists. Hillary is really careful with words and she wouldn't string words like "restrict", "constitution" and "abortion" in the same zip code unless this is something she's seriously considered. We need STRONG federal support or else abortion will be something legal in name only, where the rich can take a few days to go get one and the poor will be shut out entirely.
I can't believe you're so naive that you can't recognize third trimester abortion for the dog whistle it is.
http://bigthink.com/praxis/new-abortion-restrictions-eroding-roe-v-wade
H2O Man
(73,536 posts)If one is opposed to abortions, then work to make sex education and birth control readily available. Expand people's option, rather than restricting them as republicans would.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)WTF is she talking about, "a way to structure some kind of constitutional restriction that take into account the life of the mother and her health"? It's already in RvW.
What is she dancing around with this shit for? How about just stating that RVW is the law of the land and move on?
What kind of 'compromise' is she talking about here?
tblue37
(65,334 posts)control over their own bodies.
Political_Junkie
(1,998 posts)n/t
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)hate the lady. if I was a one issue voter I'd be voting Republican but I'm not.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)sell out in the name of personal advancement or the hope therefor. "Feminist" my shiny metal ass.
Jebus Haploid Keerist in combat boots.
Merryland
(1,134 posts)my corporate masters want me to.
Moostache
(9,895 posts)Flexible on abortion?
Tells banks to "cut it out" while accepting $30,000/hr. speaking gigs?
Against universal healthcare?
Got on board with gay rights when it was politically expedient but not one minute sooner?
I am calling "bullshit".
Truman was right....given the choice between a Republican and a Democrat that acts like a Republican, the voters will choose the Republican.
Staking out ground to the right of Eisenhower and Nixon is not a Democratic Party that I want any part of...
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Then she's solid republicanz
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)LiberalArkie
(15,713 posts)are allowed. At no time did she mention about the early voluntary is was this and that and this and "consultation with doctors". It is about women wanting to carry it to full term and something goes wrong.
Not a damn thing about women who do not want the child. She has said numerous times about improving adoption services etc.
Demobrat
(8,970 posts)Is there anybody this woman WON'T sell out? Besides Wall Street, of course?
This is just ....not okay.
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)I suppose the women of America can be thankful that Goldman Sachs doesn't have any skin in game.
Scalded Nun
(1,236 posts)Once she leaves the deeply red state she will pivot as usual.
Campaign:Any promise to serve herself.
Elected:Any action to serve herself.
And when she gets called on it the story will be
1)That is not what she meant
2)How dare anyone suggest she meant anything like that
3)She is being attacked because she is a woman
4)The world wants to victimize her
Your pick
onecaliberal
(32,826 posts)kristopher
(29,798 posts)Please??
emulatorloo
(44,116 posts)She's defending late term abortion (against GOP) for mothers who would die if the baby came to term.
GOP'ers are against late term abortions, no exception. They want those women to die.
Where do you think Cecile Richards is on that issue? Does she want these women to die just because the GOP says so?
Hope that helps.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)I've been trying to find that video in context and it looks like it has bee removed from the NBC's posted version.
The outfit is the same and the date of the interview matches, but this 30 second section is not there as far as I can find. That includes a search of the transcript.
If the context were there then I might be able to see something that supports your claim of it only applying to late term abortion, but going by the content of the video posted, you are radically overstating the evidence.
The interview on youtube.
Praxxus
(10 posts)The part about abortion is just a couple of minutes into the interview. The snippet above contains pretty much all the context around it, though.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)Direct context doesn't add much, you're right. From what I see she is a bit right of center on the topic and thinks that full on rejection of government interceding isn't an option. I'm in the camp that sees this as a health care matter where the state has no business being involved.
That leaves me with the view that she may be starting her thinking more than halfway to their side of the finish line; if you know what I mean.
onecaliberal
(32,826 posts)makes her advocacy for women a bit of a joke.
fbc
(1,668 posts)(tm)
stonecutter357
(12,695 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)women open their personal medical files to legal scrutiny and can prove that they deserved the right to have an abortion.
Hillary does not think practically.
At a moment when a woman, more than ever, needs privacy and the protection of the law that ensures that we have privacy with regard to our medical records, Hillary is willing to compromise that woman's right to privacy.
I have said this many times. I will vote for all other Democrats on my ballot but I WILL NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER VOTE FOR HILLARY.
I hope that Planned Parenthood withdraws its endorsement of Hillary if this story proves true.
This should be a warning to every feminist in this country. Hillary is not solidly on our sides.
emulatorloo
(44,116 posts)The GOP wants those women to die.
Fla Dem
(23,650 posts)FreedomRain
(413 posts)Its been said a few times now. And it deserved to be pointed out, surely.
And maybe it is even a good philosophical position.
None of which matters, because the best practical rule is "It is between a woman and the doctor of her choice." Anything else opens up the potential and likelihood of abuse, one way or another.
How does that make it OK?
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)what did Hillary mean when she said "then I'm open to that" and "you could see constitutional action." What is she open to and what constitutional action is she referring to. There are already laws in place that allow a woman to have late abortions and they already take into account the life of the mother and her health. So what exactly is Hillary talking about?
zigby
(125 posts)Abortion rights are under attack, access is being stripped, all while legal on the federal level. You start to erode that support constitutionally, and the whole thing will crumble. I'm not being alarmist, women's rights are under attack and we're supposed to vote for a woman because she's gonna be better on this issue? ANd then this? Makes my blood boil to see it defended. I'd come down just as hard on anyone else.
http://bigthink.com/praxis/new-abortion-restrictions-eroding-roe-v-wade
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Hillary's supposed to be the "champion" for women's rights and here she is admitting she'll work with anti-choice Republicans.
And it's not the first time:
Q: Are there circumstances when the government should limit choice?
LAZIO: I had a pro-choice record in the House, and I believe in a womans right to choose. I support a ban on partial-birth abortions. Senator Moynihan called it infanticide. Even former mayor Ed Koch agreed that this was too extreme a procedure. This is an area where I disagree with my opponent. My opponent opposes a ban on partial-birth abortions.
CLINTON: My opponent is wrong. I have said many times that I can support a ban on late-term abortions, including partial-birth abortions, so long as the health and life of the mother is protected. Ive met women who faced this heart-wrenching decision toward the end of a pregnancy. Of course its a horrible procedure. No one would argue with that. But if your life is at stake, if your health is at stake, if the potential for having any more children is at stake, this must be a womans choice.
Source: Senate debate in Manhattan , Oct 8, 2000
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Abortion.htm
Kablooie
(18,626 posts)Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)willing to abandon women's' choice and single payer among other progressive positions.
peggysue2
(10,828 posts)Late term abortions have always been highly controversial. Hillary Clinton has not retreated on anything that compromises a woman's life or health, even in the rare instances of late term abortion. She has been a consistent champion for the right of women to choose when it comes to their reproductive health.
This headline is utter nonsense.
Shame on you!
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Not nonsense. She is willing to compromise, regardless of whether or not it's third term. There are reasons why this should not be a constitutional issue, addressed in this thread.
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)Since the life of the mother and her health are already protected by laws that allow her to have a late abortion, what "constitutional action" is Hillary willing to agree to?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)She supported a ban on late term abortions in the past.
zigby
(125 posts)Please inform us as to why you think all these countless third term abortions on demand need anything but the decision of a woman at the advice of her doctor?
felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)it's pandering to conservatives. I envision a feminist as someone championing the ERA and clearly standing against the dominionist fundamentalist takeover of women's basic human rights.
It is this sort of pandering that has eroded our rights not preserved them, by not holding the line with our own autonomy as human beings but handing over the reins to these ignorant conservative groups.
vkkv
(3,384 posts)Bad Thoughts
(2,522 posts)tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)someone who never said shit like this and has a 100% rating from their own rating.
zigby
(125 posts)I was really excited about the opportunity to vote for a woman, but I can't make peace with this. She's so careful with words, I can't trust her to not trade away. This frightens me, with SC appointments coming up.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)She is not sincere about it, but rather trying to score political points by exploiting women and stoking the anxiety that always exists among women who reasonably fear where restrictions will lead.
Or, she really believes what she said and supports a RW agenda that says women can't be trusted with their own bodies.
They are equally disturbing possibilities and she confirms once again that she is willing to sell out the sisterhood. Hillary Clinton's feminism is more in line with concerned women for America than NOW.
Sparkly
(24,149 posts)which is not currently the case. The Republicans are trying to strip AWAY our rights, so this is a hypothetical.
Planned Parenthood endorsed her, btw.