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Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:10 PM

 

Bernie Sanders still won't update his message on race issues

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/12/bernie-sanders-still-wont-update-his-message-on-race-issues/

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Reply Bernie Sanders still won't update his message on race issues (Original post)
bravenak Feb 2016 OP
EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #1
radical noodle Feb 2016 #47
ananda Feb 2016 #77
EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #89
radical noodle Feb 2016 #96
EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #98
radical noodle Feb 2016 #99
EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #100
radical noodle Feb 2016 #110
EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #112
dchill Feb 2016 #132
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2016 #2
arcane1 Feb 2016 #83
mythology Feb 2016 #113
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2016 #114
wildeyed Feb 2016 #115
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2016 #116
wildeyed Feb 2016 #118
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2016 #119
wildeyed Feb 2016 #120
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2016 #121
wildeyed Feb 2016 #122
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2016 #123
wildeyed Feb 2016 #147
TCJ70 Feb 2016 #3
Warren Stupidity Feb 2016 #4
bravenak Feb 2016 #6
beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #37
JonLeibowitz Feb 2016 #61
azurnoir Feb 2016 #5
madfloridian Feb 2016 #8
jfern Feb 2016 #103
whatchamacallit Feb 2016 #7
bravenak Feb 2016 #9
whatchamacallit Feb 2016 #11
SMC22307 Feb 2016 #108
yourout Feb 2016 #10
bravenak Feb 2016 #13
immoderate Feb 2016 #12
bravenak Feb 2016 #14
virtualobserver Feb 2016 #17
bravenak Feb 2016 #19
TCJ70 Feb 2016 #21
bravenak Feb 2016 #25
shawn703 Feb 2016 #30
bravenak Feb 2016 #34
virtualobserver Feb 2016 #26
bravenak Feb 2016 #33
MrWendel Feb 2016 #39
virtualobserver Feb 2016 #42
bravenak Feb 2016 #43
virtualobserver Feb 2016 #48
bravenak Feb 2016 #49
virtualobserver Feb 2016 #51
bravenak Feb 2016 #54
virtualobserver Feb 2016 #57
bravenak Feb 2016 #60
virtualobserver Feb 2016 #64
bravenak Feb 2016 #68
Human101948 Feb 2016 #102
radical noodle Feb 2016 #52
bravenak Feb 2016 #56
jfern Feb 2016 #104
Matariki Feb 2016 #18
bravenak Feb 2016 #22
Matariki Feb 2016 #36
bravenak Feb 2016 #38
AtomicKitten Feb 2016 #20
bravenak Feb 2016 #23
AtomicKitten Feb 2016 #29
tkmorris Feb 2016 #72
AtomicKitten Feb 2016 #78
jfern Feb 2016 #106
Nite Owl Feb 2016 #109
Senator Tankerbell Feb 2016 #15
bravenak Feb 2016 #16
Senator Tankerbell Feb 2016 #24
bravenak Feb 2016 #27
Senator Tankerbell Feb 2016 #86
dinkytron Feb 2016 #28
beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #80
thereismore Feb 2016 #31
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2016 #32
Arazi Feb 2016 #46
beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #85
arcane1 Feb 2016 #93
muriel_volestrangler Feb 2016 #35
bravenak Feb 2016 #40
MrWendel Feb 2016 #41
Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2016 #62
LiberalAndProud Feb 2016 #44
bravenak Feb 2016 #53
LiberalAndProud Feb 2016 #71
bravenak Feb 2016 #74
LiberalAndProud Feb 2016 #79
bravenak Feb 2016 #82
R B Garr Feb 2016 #45
bravenak Feb 2016 #50
Name removed Feb 2016 #65
R B Garr Feb 2016 #66
Name removed Feb 2016 #73
R B Garr Feb 2016 #75
Name removed Feb 2016 #81
R B Garr Feb 2016 #84
B Calm Feb 2016 #55
bravenak Feb 2016 #58
thereismore Feb 2016 #87
AtomicKitten Feb 2016 #59
SMC22307 Feb 2016 #105
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2016 #63
beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #67
LexVegas Feb 2016 #69
bravenak Feb 2016 #70
Eric J in MN Feb 2016 #76
LiberalAndProud Feb 2016 #90
madfloridian Feb 2016 #88
99Forever Feb 2016 #91
bravenak Feb 2016 #126
99Forever Feb 2016 #136
bravenak Feb 2016 #137
99Forever Feb 2016 #138
bravenak Feb 2016 #139
99Forever Feb 2016 #140
bravenak Feb 2016 #142
99Forever Feb 2016 #143
bravenak Feb 2016 #144
Bluenorthwest Feb 2016 #92
LiberalAndProud Feb 2016 #94
zalinda Feb 2016 #95
bravenak Feb 2016 #125
zalinda Feb 2016 #145
LineLineLineLineNew Reply .
bravenak Feb 2016 #146
NurseJackie Feb 2016 #97
tk2kewl Feb 2016 #101
valerief Feb 2016 #107
SMC22307 Feb 2016 #111
wildeyed Feb 2016 #117
bravenak Feb 2016 #124
JonLeibowitz Feb 2016 #127
bravenak Feb 2016 #135
Recursion Feb 2016 #128
bravenak Feb 2016 #129
Recursion Feb 2016 #130
Beausoir Feb 2016 #131
Bonobo Feb 2016 #133
bravenak Feb 2016 #134
Vinca Feb 2016 #141

Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:16 PM

1. I know

You're used to a candidate that changes their positions all the time for short-term politics gain, but that's not what Sanders is about.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:51 PM

47. The ability to change is an attractive characteristic

It's normally a good idea for people to learn and grow with time. That's what being a progressive is all about, isn't it? I think he should show he's able to listen and learn. I never want a president who is so stuck on everything that they can't change their mind when they need to.

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #47)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:06 PM

77. Maybe Sanders is NOT a progressive ..

.. but a true socialist in the most LIBERAL sense.

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #47)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:18 PM

89. No

You want him to change because you disagree with him. But that doesn't mean that him doing what you want = learning or growing.

Thinking he needs to learn to be good or clued up as you are is arrogant.

And no progressive isn't about changing your beliefs when it's expedient politically. I know Clinton has confused you, so that you THINK that's what progressive means - political games and cynical flip-flops, but no that's not progressive.

The thing about changing your mind is thst it's good to do it if youve learned you're wrong, but as much as it annoys you, he's not wrong; he has a perfectly valid approach and is putting it out there. If enough people agree he'll get the nomination. Changing his position to get the nomination, based on nothing more than people shouting at him to fall in line is weak and would be a disasterous personality traits to have as a President.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Reply #89)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:49 PM

96. No of course...

If he doesn't see anything differently he shouldn't change his position to be elected. I would have thought he might have a different view of things now after talking to his AA advisors and other leaders in the black community.

You are very wrong if you think that I would suggest that anyone change their views for political advantage. That is not progressive. It IS progressive to listen and learn and steer a course in a better direction.

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #96)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:55 PM

98. Again

Listening to advisors doesn't mean he needs to change his position.

The point is that he's probably getting multiple opinions and unless he sees a reason to change, which I certainly haven't personally seen, then why should he?

I think that his positions are all rooted in his deep seated beliefs about what's wrong and how to fix it. He not opposed to listening and changing or taking advice, obviously, but I think it's presumptuous to assume that hes not acting like a progressive simply because he's not taking a specific bit of advice from the sea of advice he's probably getting.

One of his most endearing qualities is his consistency and so I'd imagine he's not going to radically change positions without a damn good reason.

Plus, honestly, the ability to stand up to the pressures put on him by all special interests and pressure groups is very reassuring. He may not ALWAYS do what any one person wants, but you can be sure he's doing what he thinks is right and that he won't stab you in the back just because of some advisors opinion.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Reply #98)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 06:29 PM

99. You seem to like to put words in my mouth

I never said he wasn't a progressive, and if you think I did, you took it in some way other than how I meant it.

The problems in this country are wide and varied and I think it would be difficult for any politician who had spent most of his time in a small state in the northeast to know about some of them. Maybe he does think fixing Wall Street and breaking up the big banks will fix it all. Okay then, you're right. He should not change because any group gives him information that he doesn't relate to.

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #99)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 06:55 PM

100. It's not just

About fixing Wall St. and banks. It's about re-redristributing the wealth taken from the middle and working classes... That alone would go a LONG way to redressing the EFFECTS of institutional and societal racism. Will it FIX racism no? But. Will empowered people be less damaged by the hatred and ignorance of others? I find it hard to see a way that couldn't be true.

It's a difference approach to the same problem, but it's not not an approach. It's a legitimate idea and honestly, considering that he's much more likely to ACTUALLY spend his efforts and political capital trying to make this happen - for the poor and minorities - than almost any other politician out there.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Reply #100)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 07:38 PM

110. I will admit

I have been discouraged by the elevated racism in this country since we elected President Obama. Although the Republicans like to blame him for this decline in reasonable behavior, it actually seems the reverse is true in some bizarre way. Racists seem outraged by the accomplishments of those they despise, so their behavior worsens. They want to remove all good things from those they hate. Helping the middle and working classes and alleviating poverty are all wonderful things and will certainly make life easier for all who benefit. My personal learning curve in the last 7+ years tells me things might get even worse than they are now in regard to racism *because* of these changes and we should consider being prepared for that. Please do not misinterpret this to mean I don't believe in the value of raising people up economically.

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #110)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 07:56 PM

112. I tell you what

I grew up in the deep South. I was caught in the middle of a race riot in High School and saw two kids shot dead over drugs... Black kids in a black neighborhood shoot by other black kids... And I mean kids.

I also saw endless confederate flags... Heard endless racial epithets and saw endless discrimination.

And yet.

There were some black kids and adults who avoided a lot of this. And the main way they did was money. Which sucks to say but it's true.

A large part of the problem that I saw was poor black and poor white racists tearing each other up. Not rich racists... They exist and got their sick thrills in other ways... But the racism I mostly saw was connected directly to poverty.

Imagine if a significant percentage of the minority population that can't afford University education suddenly good. Or people that had to work that third job to afford Healthcare could instead spend thst time with their families.

It wouldn't stop dad's from teaching their kids to hate, but it would create multiple situations where people now with few options could have at least one more.

And honestly I don't see ANYTHING being offered by Clinton that would come close to having such a transformational impact on the lives of so many.

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #47)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:10 AM

132. "The ability to change is an attractive characteristic..."

Yeah, to another chameleon in mating season.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:17 PM

2. Just another way of calling Bernie Sanders a racist. SO unlike you!

 

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:10 PM

83. With a dash of "Look at me!" n/t

 

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 09:06 PM

113. Obviously you didn't read the article

 

Sanders will need to win a higher percentage of minority votes than the most recent polling shows he is getting in upcoming states.

Sanders has a good message, but he isn't being received positively by minorities as reflected in polling. If you want him to be the nominee, shouldn't you care about that?

If you believe the article, which does quote Sanders from the debates the issue is that when he is asked a question about race, he gives a sentence on that before shifting right back into his standard message. But being middle class didn't stop Trayvon Martin or Sandra Bland from dying. It doesn't stop random black people from being pulled over while driving or stopped by the police while walking. It doesn't stop poor store security from following/harassing black customers. Insisting that only one approach will work, isn't exactly inviting people to join up unless they already believe what you do.



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Response to mythology (Reply #113)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 09:18 PM

114. Ya know... you people really confuse me. Out of one side of your mouth comes a complaint that he

 

goes "shifting right back into his standard message", then you mention that Trayvon and Sandra dying at the hands of police...

If you paid one second of attention, ever, you'd have heard Bernie Sanders talking about how bad black people have it at the hands of the police... how we need to demilitarize them, etc.

What planet do you live on?

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #114)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 09:40 PM

115. "you people"

Hmmmm.....

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #115)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 09:43 PM

116. That is an awesome refutation of my post. What side of your mouth did the "Hmmmm" come out on?

 

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #116)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 09:52 PM

118. And my eyes rolled.

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #118)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 09:54 PM

119. You are seriously on your game this afternoon, I'll tell you that.

 

Your eyes rolled in wildeyed... something huh?

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #119)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 09:55 PM

120. Ad hominem

Boring.

And yeah. It is Valentine's Day, right?

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #120)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 09:57 PM

121. Refute a point. Serve a purpose.

 

Or not...

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #121)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 10:07 PM

122. What point did you make?

Please note, for future debate purposes, that "you people" is not a great choice when discussing race.

So hmmm..... Wonder why you chose that?

Everything else you typed was couched in insults, so whatever point you were trying to make got lost. One of your previous comments to me is completely rude and a personal attack, IMO.

So pretty sure you are not interested in a real debate of the issues.

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #122)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 10:30 PM

123. You people refers to Hillary Clinton supporters, lest you forget what we're talking about; primaries

 

And if you want to call me racist, do it. Have some backbone and be open and notorious about it.

Or not.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #123)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 12:28 PM

147. We are talking about race and how it affects the primaries.

I did not call you anything. How would I know if you were racist or not? I don't live in your head. I only pointed out that 'you people' is a bad choice for conversations about race. You could have taken that for what it is, a good piece of advice from someone giving you the benefit of the doubt. Or choose to be defensive and rude. You chose the later.

You sure are sensitive on the subject. I'm done.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:19 PM

3. Consistency is a terrible thing, isn't it?

How dare he focus on the systemic economic injustice that disproportionately affects minorities!? Doesn't he know an imperfect relationship is better than solutions?

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:22 PM

4. Foto-derp got you down? No problemo just tack on over to

 

some other equally irrelevant idiocy.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:22 PM

6. Yea

 

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:42 PM

37. LOL! Nailed it! Is it that time again?



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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #37)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:00 PM

61. New memes distributed daily! Nom nom nom...

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:22 PM

5. well Clinton certainly has updated

from "superpredators" and "being brought to heel" to "firewall" but perhaps your author needs to update her knowledge of Bernie Sanders

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:25 PM

8. I would think all 3 terms would be insulting.

But it's more important to some to just look for stuff to make Bernie look bad.

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 07:07 PM

103. And Bill from confederate star on the state flag to I'm mixed race too

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:25 PM

7. Bernie shows up with an un-iced cake to greet the new neighbors

and it's all "you racist motherfucker, get off my doorstep!". Hillary shows up with a teaspoon of icing and it's all "come on in!"

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Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:26 PM

9. I would never call him that

 

But I'd also not accept the cake.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:27 PM

11. Why?

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Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #11)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 07:28 PM

108. Because nothing proves how tough you are than...

refusing welcome-to-the-neighborhood baked goods.


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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:27 PM

10. Wow..you don't give up do you.

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Response to yourout (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:27 PM

13. No. I did not like that answer

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:27 PM

12. What 'update' would change your mind?

 

Can't wait for this.

--imm

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Response to immoderate (Reply #12)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:27 PM

14. Him to change his approach

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #14)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:30 PM

17. what solution are you looking for?

 

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #17)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:32 PM

19. His view of all problems being fixed by taxing billionaires

 

We wont get the help you will because of racism, how to address that.
And do not talk about us like that anymore. It is hurtful

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Response to bravenak (Reply #19)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:34 PM

21. That's not his position...

...I know you've seen his racial justice platform because I've shared it with you. If you want to ignore it, fine...but don't paint his platform as just about taxing billionaires when it isn't.

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Response to TCJ70 (Reply #21)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:36 PM

25. What he SAID when asked about race relations is

 

He will tax the rich to give jobs to poor kids so they won't be hanging on street corners.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #25)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:39 PM

30. I thought you knew this was out of context?

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Response to shawn703 (Reply #30)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:41 PM

34. I read it

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #19)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:37 PM

26. what does he need to do, though?

 

Personally, I don't think that he believes that ALL problems will be solved by that, just some.

but I'll concede that point, if that is what it feels like he is doing. How should he be saying it?

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #26)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:41 PM

33. Well.

 

No victim shaming. Racism is not the fault of kids on streetcorners.
Stop trying so hard to make racism about POVERTY
They are not the same thing
He needs to gain perspective on what it is
Then he can figure out solutions


If we say 'racist cops kill us' and he says ' free college, jobs!', how does that help us at all on the racism? It does not.

All blacks had jobs during slavery. It did nothing to solve racism.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #33)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:42 PM

39. +1

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Response to bravenak (Reply #33)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:45 PM

42. Then help me fully understand

 

For a moment, be Bernie or Hillary

talk to me as if you are Bernie or Hillary and I am a black person.

What would you say to me?

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #42)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:47 PM

43. I would say

 

Be quiet and listen stop lecturing you
Cannot learn what do do unless you
Stop trying to fit a round peg in a square hole
It hurts

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Response to bravenak (Reply #43)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:52 PM

48. But you are still telling Bernie what not to do or say, What I'm asking is if you were Bernie

 

and I was a black person.....What would YOU (as Bernie) say to ME (a black person)?

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #48)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:53 PM

49. How can I be most effective? Help me understand.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #49)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:56 PM

51. If he did know how to be effective....if he did understand.....

 

What would his stump speech sound like?

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #51)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:57 PM

54. I cannot tell you that

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #54)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:58 PM

57. is it that you don't want to?

 

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #57)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:59 PM

60. Somewhat

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #60)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:01 PM

64. I'm disappointed, because I would like to understand.

 

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #64)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:02 PM

68. There is a lack of passion and understanding from him on certain things

 

It's understandable

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Response to bravenak (Reply #68)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 07:05 PM

102. In other words, nothing can be done to satisfy you...

 

you offer no useful advice or guidance yet you are happy to excoriate Bernie for not listening.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #33)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:57 PM

52. Exactly

Wealthy, well-educated black men are just as likely to be targeted. In fact, as we can see from President Obama's terms in office, sometimes the success black men have actually bring out racism that has previously remained hidden.

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #52)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:58 PM

56. Yep. Same wealthy black guys get pulled over week after week

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #19)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 07:09 PM

104. He gave a good answer on racism in the last debate

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Response to bravenak (Reply #14)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:31 PM

18. I'd also sincerely like to hear what that approach would be

What would a candidate need to say on race issues that you would resonate with and that would be helpful? I'm assuming that you think Sanders is too focuses on economic injustice?

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Response to Matariki (Reply #18)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:35 PM

22. Cultural sensitivity

 

Not talking about our kids on street corners
That is a stereotype
Wealthy kids suffer racism too
That was the question
Race RELATIONS
Makes it seem like we have issues with race because black kids dont have jobs.
He needs to fire divine
Bad track record

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Response to bravenak (Reply #22)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:41 PM

36. Fair enough.

"Makes it seem like we have issues with race because black kids dont have jobs." - yep, I agree, that could be inferred by the laser focus on 'jobs'.

In defense of Sanders, I believe he's trying to address the economic injustice that hits African American communities particularly hard but agree that he should be talking about it with cultural sensitivity.

I'm sure it comes as no surprise to you that white Americans aren't very good at talking about race

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Response to Matariki (Reply #36)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:42 PM

38. Thank you

 

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Response to immoderate (Reply #12)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:32 PM

20. Campaign Zero updates racial justice platform ratings; Bernie does best.

 

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #20)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:35 PM

23. As nothing to do with his framing on issues

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:38 PM

29. framing is completely subjective ... we get it, you aren't satisfied, but it's not all about you

 

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #29)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:03 PM

72. I'm pretty sure that it is

At least, that is the impression I get anyway.

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Response to tkmorris (Reply #72)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:07 PM

78. It's a continuation of the "Not Good Enough, Bernie" meme that started day #1 of his campaign.

 

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #20)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 07:11 PM

106. Bernie wins by a 9-3 landslide now that O'Malley is out

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #20)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 07:31 PM

109. It is most excellent.

He should speak about though in a debate. It is framed well too.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:29 PM

15. It seems like people want Sanders to make promises

that there is no way he can keep. And some people don't want to apply the same standard to Clinton that they apply to Sanders.

I think his platform on these issues is actually very good:
https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/

I believe Hillary is polling better in SC because she has been a national celebrity since 1992 and she is better at pandering.

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Response to Senator Tankerbell (Reply #15)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:30 PM

16. His framing is off

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:36 PM

24. Have you compared the platforms of both candidates?

Can you explain the difference in framing because I don't see it.

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Response to Senator Tankerbell (Reply #24)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:37 PM

27. The stuff he says

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #27)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:15 PM

86. I think policy outcomes are more important than political rhetoric.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:37 PM

28. Is this the message he refuses to update?

"Bernie speaks to students about ending racism”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511232589

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Response to dinkytron (Reply #28)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:08 PM

80. Whoopsie! There goes that meme!




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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:39 PM

31. A new thread on the same thing. Hmm... did the old one run out of steam?

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Response to thereismore (Reply #31)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:40 PM

32. She's destined to keep pushing that stone uphill for the rest of eternity. n/t

 

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #32)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:50 PM

46. unbelievable energy expended to "win" the internetz

I actually feel sorry, its pretty sad

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #32)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:12 PM

85. Sisyphus wants his gig back.


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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #32)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:28 PM

93. Whatever it takes to get attention n/t

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:41 PM

35. Jury results:

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Consistent race baiting.
This is at least the 2nd thread started this way.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Feb 14, 2016, 02:37 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Don't try to hide posts because they question your candidate's positions.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: "started this way" meaning "using the headline the Washington Post gave it"? You may disagree with the opinions of the author and/or poster, but it's not race baiting.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't think censoring discussions about race during an election season is what DU should be all about. Besides, I think the linked article is worth discussing.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't get it. Frivolous.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #35)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:43 PM

40. Thank you

 

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #35)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:44 PM

41. If you don't like the message...

pull an alert.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #35)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:00 PM

62. THANK YOU!!

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:49 PM

44. I think I don't understand.

I cannot see a chasm between Bernie's position and Hillary's position as described in the article.

She’d focus on policing reforms, yes, but also invest in housing, education and jobs.

“I particularly appreciate the proposal that Congressman Jim Clyburn has — the 10-20-30 proposal — to try to spend more federal dollars in communities with persistent generational poverty,”


Isn't Hillary focusing on economic concerns as well? I was a bit unnerved by Bernie's tone as conveyed by his quotes in the article. It does appear he places the focus in the wrong place when trying to talk about these things. I do get that.

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Response to LiberalAndProud (Reply #44)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:57 PM

53. He had to talk to people in their own language

 

He has to empathize to understand why the things he says can offend
He has to care about offending

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Response to bravenak (Reply #53)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:03 PM

71. I see. Thank you.

Do you think you would hear a change of tone, or are you especially attached to the original offense? I understand if that's the case. I've been known to do that myself.

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Response to LiberalAndProud (Reply #71)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:04 PM

74. I would hear it

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #74)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:07 PM

79. That's good. Thanks again.

(Signed, juror #5)

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Response to LiberalAndProud (Reply #79)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:09 PM

82. No prob. Thanks

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:49 PM

45. It's simple. Racism is caused by........

Wall Street Billionaires! See? Simple.

But, seriously, he does sound dated and simplistic in his responses. He is used to literally talking at people and not interacting with them. I guess that's what happens when you come from a small, unpopulated state with little diversity, which is the same thing people noticed about him months ago.

Great article, brave!

I thought Clinton's response about "persistent generational poverty" was excellent in the debate when she brought up Clyburn's 10-20-30 Amendment.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #45)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:55 PM

50. I'm sure he finds it difficult

 

But I think now is the time to try harder. I did like how she addressed the multigenerational poverty. Not everything is oligarchs. Contrary to popular belief.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #45)


Response to Name removed (Reply #65)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:02 PM

66. He fled New York

He's a Senator from Vermont

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #66)


Response to Name removed (Reply #73)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:05 PM

75. It's also quite a load to imply that Bernie is a Senator from New York

when he's a Senator from Vermont.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #75)


Response to Name removed (Reply #81)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:10 PM

84. He fled New York to live in rural Vermont.

Vermont has a population of 600,000. He's an elected official from Vermont.

Welcome to DU.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:58 PM

55. Why is it Hillary supporters continue to paint Bernie as a racist?

 

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Response to B Calm (Reply #55)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:59 PM

58. This is not calling him that

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #58)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:16 PM

87. Ooh touchy.

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Response to B Calm (Reply #55)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:59 PM

59. per the OP's own words in a PM, she doesn't really support Hillary

 

and intends to spam DU to punish Bernie supporters for making her cranky or some such shit

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #59)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 07:09 PM

105. This speaks volumes...

Stop trying to fit a round peg in a square hole
It hurts


And DU gets to bear the brunt of the personal issues.

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Response to B Calm (Reply #55)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:01 PM

63. Because no matter how many rocks they turn over, they can't find a policy Hillary bests Bernie on.nt

 

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Response to B Calm (Reply #55)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:02 PM

67. They've been doing it since he announced last May.

Starting with the crowd in his home state and the now infamous "Not Good Enough, Bernie" thread that associated him with slavery and racist cops.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:02 PM

69. Cause he has nothing. nt

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #69)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:03 PM

70. Sad.

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:06 PM

76. The premise of this article is that Hillary Clinton wants to spend more in poor neighborhoods

...and Bernie Sanders doesn't.

That premise is false.

Bernie Sanders discussed that he wants to spend more in poor neighborhoods at a town hall in Minneapolis on Friday with a mostly black audience. Hillary Clinton was also invited but had a scheduling conflict and didn't attend.

Video of Bernie Sanders at Neighborhoods Organizing for Change town hall:


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Response to Eric J in MN (Reply #76)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:19 PM

90. Supporting small businesses. Supporting small black businesses.

Ending tax breaks to multinationals to focus tax credits where they should be. I could get behind that.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:16 PM

88. I know it won't matter to you, but a chart. You first didn't like Hillary, now it's anti-Bernie. ?

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:19 PM

91. The One Trick Pony rides again.

Derp.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #91)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:04 AM

126. He sure does

 

Wall street wall street wall street

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Response to bravenak (Reply #126)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 08:33 AM

136. I wasn't speaking of President Sanders.

Anyone who has actually listened to him, knows that isn't true. But keep on playing sore loser, it fits you well.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #136)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 08:37 AM

137. I was talking about him

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #137)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 09:02 AM

138. That's your one and only trick.

So of course you were.


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Response to 99Forever (Reply #138)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 09:02 AM

139. I have plenty

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #139)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 09:03 AM

140. Nope. It's all you have.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #140)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 09:04 AM

142. Oh wow, you are so omnicient

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #142)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 09:07 AM

143. And you don't even do it well.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #143)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 09:16 AM

144. Nice!

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:21 PM

92. A link to an untrusted merchant of smears, the Capehart Post.

 

The source you link to lacks all credibility at this juncture in regard to the Democratic Primary. I don't give clicks to mediocre McCarthyites.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #92)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:29 PM

94. It's comforting to know where the bias lies.

Who would have guessed it from Jeff [email protected]?

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:42 PM

95. I know I will get hated for this, but............

This campaign is not about black people, or brown people, or yellow people or red people or white people. It's about PEOPLE. In this country people are having a huge problem with just surviving, no matter what color they are. That rich black or brown people are being pulled over is going back to the ORIGINAL cause of the pull over, and that is that most black or brown people could not afford a car that nice. And, yes the cause is probably not the same as it was, some cops being what they are, and it has become standard operating procedure. It becomes habit, just like buying the same brand of peanut butter. It's thoughtless. And, it's not only the police, but in all forms of business, especially retail stores that have bought into this.

Bernie aims to change this perception, by making it less likely that people will perceive that black or brown people will steal or do illegal things, because they now have financial stability. Hardly any one gives notice to the millions of white people who are also poor and struggling. They are just as likely to commit a crime as their black or brown neighbor, but because of the bias of what 'used to be', they are not targeted.

When some one is struggling and they see what they consider 'unfairness' to some one getting something that they didn't earn, you get prejudice. You see a man get a job that woman is qualified for, and the woman sees it as unfair. You see a black person get into college that a white person also qualified for, the white guy sees it as unfair. It goes on and on. Bernie can't change jealousy, but he can try to change perception.

A lot of racial tension is economic, it is the core value of every person on this planet. If a person is struggling to survive and sees another person he perceives as having it easy, there is prejudice. If I hear one more person tell me how easy it is being on Welfare and Food Stamps....LOL. Yes, quitting your $50,000 a year job and living hand to mouth and collecting a small government handout is much easier than working. Really?

Things can change, it isn't easy and it isn't fast, but working for economic equality is the first step.

Any one else remember how we laughed at people paying for water? Now people don't ask you if you want a glass of water, but a bottle of water. Yes, things do change.

Z

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Response to zalinda (Reply #95)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:03 AM

125. Different PEOPLE have different problems

 

And not all blacks are poor. Most are NOT. So using us hanging on street corners to illustrate his point was a bad fucking idea. He was asked about race relations, not 'all people'

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Response to bravenak (Reply #125)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 11:28 AM

145. So Black is the only other race?

You don't think NA's have problems with the police? You don't think that poor white in rural communities don't have problems with the police?

Of course not all blacks are poor, but back in the 30's, 40's and 50's, the vast majority were poor. As I said, what was once true has now become dogma. Dogma is very difficult to change, but it is changing. With Blacks and others who have been traditionally poor getting more financial parity, the dogma can be broken more easily. With a leader who will have no fear of prosecuting those who still adhere to the dogma, things will change. Dogma can only be broken from top down and Bernie will make sure that those chiefs of police will adhere to new government policy. For instance, Bernie plans to move marijuana out of schedule 1, and possibly get it legal federally.

Hillary has no plans to do any of that. She is pretty much satisfied with what Obama has been doing, and plans to do the same. While I know that Obama didn't want to be known as the BLACK President, he still should have done something to help minorities. And, again, why hasn't black America held Obama's feet to the fire?

Z

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Response to zalinda (Reply #145)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 11:30 AM

146. .

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:51 PM

97. At this late hour ... his opportunities have come and gone ... HE BLEW IT!

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 06:56 PM

101. unlike Hillary who will update it as many times as you like

 

one way for white audiences and another for black ones
one way for a jewish opponent and another way for a black one

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 07:26 PM

107. Ah, WaPo. And it's Rappaport in the picture, too.

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Response to valerief (Reply #107)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 07:40 PM

111. Camp Weathervane's new best friend: Right-Libertarian Jeff Bezos.

Pay your damn taxes, Jeff!

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 09:51 PM

117. Doesn't seem like it.

When asked at Thursday’s Democratic debate in Milwaukee whether he sees the economic struggles of Americans in terms of race, Sanders said something instructive.

“We can talk about it as a racial issue, but it’s a general economic issue,” he said.


There it is. That is what he believes. That is where he will spend his political capital if elected. Like you, I disagree. I think that we should address systemic racism and voting rights issues FIRST, then the economic issues fall into place.

This does not mean I am calling Sanders a racist. He is not. But this IS a pretty serious policy disagreement.

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #117)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:01 AM

124. Yep

 

He and I do not see eye to eye.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #124)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:05 AM

127. Well you do agree on one thing -- neither of you support Hillary Clinton, right?

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Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #127)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:41 AM

135. She can have my vote

 

That's all I can do with politicians

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:05 AM

128. Working class whites don't like it when politicians speak directly to black people

He wants working class whites. We'll see if it's the right choice, tactically.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #128)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:06 AM

129. He can have them I guess

 

That hanging on street corners shit pisses me off

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Response to bravenak (Reply #129)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:08 AM

130. Yeah. The tone deafness is awful.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:09 AM

131. I do not believe that he is a racist. He's just a clueless rich white man with a massive ego.

 

He literally thinks he is the most important man on earth. He has been a political insider for nearly 30 years. He loves the cushy perks and ego-stroking that go along with his job sucking at the government teat.

He simply can't connect with the rest of us because of his insulated lifestyle.

He is unelectable and he is NOT a Democrat....by his own admission.

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Response to Beausoir (Reply #131)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:14 AM

133. "He literally thinks he is the most important man on earth. "

I don't think you know what the word, "literally" means.

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Response to Beausoir (Reply #131)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:20 AM

134. I agree

 

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Response to Beausoir (Reply #131)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 09:04 AM

141. Satire. Right?

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