Constant attacks on Hillary Clinton around here are radical, off the rails, and ridiculous.

[RBInMaine]

What wild-eyed radical nonsense.

"Hillary destroyed feminism."
"Hillary is trying to destroy Bernie's character."
"Hillary's Democratic Senate supporters are corrupt."

And on and on this nonsense goes.

And all this from people who are supporting a candidate who has pledged repeatedly to SUPPORT Hillary if she is the nominee. These attacks are off the rails of reality, plain and simple.

[hoosierlib]

1. It's a civil war...the corporatist establishment against the people

What did you expect?

[RBInMaine]

4. Hillary is progressive and has worked to improve people's lives all her life. Enough hyperbole.

[Live and Learn]

7. Repeating falsehoods doesn't make them true. nt

[valerief]

52. ^^^THIS^^^

[dchill]

54. +1

[Hortensis]

90. Irrationality enabled by profound self-delusionment,

enabled by irrationality. It would arouse sympathy and concern if it wasn't paired with endless hostile attacks and scurrilous libels. Which came first? Hostility borne of irrationality or irrationality borne of need for a target for hostility? And why on earth did these people choose the single person most disliked and feared by the GOP and ultraconservative plutocrats (Hillary!) as their target ALSO?

[BeanMusical]

143. Speaking of irrationality...

Your post doesn't make much sense, especially since you are replying to someone who posted: +1 in support of someone else who was supporting another post that has nothing to do with what you are talking about, which is pure word salad to begin with.

[Hortensis]

148. Try this: those spreading lies about Hillary are

working alongside the very forces they claim to oppose. Rational people really opposing the ultraconservative threat to our country would shoot AT them, not try to take out their current single biggest enemy FOR them.please

These actions call their professed goals into question, to put it mildly. It is possible to support Sanders without endorsing right-wing lies about the Democrats. They reject that course.

[mgmaggiemg]

189. exactly

[Fawke Em]

202. You do realize she's done many things that have earned our disrespect of her

that aren't formed from "right wing lies," don't you?

[Hortensis]

205. The problem is that the "disrespect" of many

is so huge and out of proportion that it is not credible as honest disrespect. I have my own areas of disrespect, and many people I feel have earned it, including Hillary, and I know what disrespect is.

Something else is involved here, something that causes people to take all the blame from many and pile it on one woman. I'm not a psychologist and I have no idea why this one victim was chosen, why so many chose to swallow all the right-wing lies and slurs and propaganda that they and others could get hold of to build a really silly loathing, but IMO there is a profound self-indulgence to all this -- and a profound willful/determined ignorance and dishonesty that generate both bemused wonder and profound disrespect from many observers.

[bettyellen]

208. "IMO there is a profound self-indulgence to all this -- and a profound willful/determined ignorance

and dishonesty that generate both bemused wonder and profound disrespect from many observers."


Nailed it. Thank you.

[betsuni]

210. +1

[kristopher]

83. +1

[840high]

206. ..+1

[hoosierlib]

8. Lol...sure she has...

Early on in her career she did, but she sure did make herself wealthy lobbying for her "constituents" both during and after her stint as Senator...

[bvf]

16. Funny.

A hyperbolic post eating its own tail.

[Katashi_itto]

24. Cool story bro

[JackInGreen]

34. I'm certain her time at Walmart

Helped a lot of folks.....all named Walton.

[lark]

95. Can't stand uninformed attacks.

Have you researched Clinton's time at Walmart? Bet you didn't because then you'd know that she used her position to get them to move a lot of their procurement to the US from China. That was her terms for being on the board and Sam agreed. Walmart didn't become the evil worker destroying place it is now until after Hillary left the Board and Sam died. It's his children who are evil vampire mutants. Hillary hasn't been part of this new era as you are trying to erroneously claim.

Oh, BTW, I'm voting for Bernie in the primary. Just can't stand for Dems to lie about other Dems out of ignorance and hate. She's done enough stuff that's real and not good for the 1%, don't need to make stuff up.

[creatives4innovation]

142. Hillary was on the board from 1986-1992

Here are some excerpts from a PBS article entitled Secrets - Wal-Mart and China: A Joint Venture

According to Ortega, Walton himself estimated that imports accounted for nearly 6 percent of Wal-Mart's total sales in 1984. But another observer of that period, Frank Yuan, a former Taiwan-based apparel middleman, who dealt with Wal-Mart in the 1980s, puts the number, including indirect imports, at around 40 percent from "day one." Either way, Walton's vision was a harbinger of far vaster global sourcing today.

...Even as Wal-Mart was pushing its U.S. suppliers to be more efficient and promoting its "Buy American" program through the '80s, the company bought more and more from Asia, according to Jay Moates, a former accountant with Wal-Mart's overseas buying operation.

...As PREL provided Wal-Mart cover for its Asian buying, Walton could both continue promoting his "Buy American" campaign at home and expand his overseas procurement out of PREL in Hong Kong.

But several months after Walton's death in April 1992, the "Buy American" campaign backfired when Wal-Mart became the target of a Dateline NBC expose that revealed "Buy American" signs adorning piles of imported goods from Asia. Overnight, an embarrassed Wal-Mart de-emphasized the "Buy American" campaign.

[Ferd Berfel]

87. can you just taste the Delusion?

Talk about unicorns and sparkle pony's


She helped write the TPP. She supported NAFTA and the other crap that Wild Bill did to move us to the right.

[Odin2005]

168. Hillary is a corporatist, a warmonger, and a liar.

[Squinch]

13. It is not a civil war. It is not the corporatist establishment against the people.

Bernie is not the people. He has been in Congress for decades, which makes him the definition of the establishment.

And in all those years in Congress, he has had no success in getting legislation or reforms passed that do anything to curtail corporations or do any of the things he is promising, though he has been hawking his message against corporations for a long, long time.

This persona of Bernie being the crusader against the corporate establishment has no basis.

[hoosierlib]

17. Of course he wasn't successful...

The corporate interests have been in control of parties for decades. Bernie railed against the repeal Glass-Steagall, was against NAFTA, was against CAFTA and the TPP.

And what establishment are talk about? Bernie has been a independent politician since he started running for office. He caucused with Democrats once he become a Congressman. He has beholden to no one except the voters.

As for Hillary, 350+ super delegates and the backing of the corporate America says otherwise.

And yes, it is an insurrection...and Hillary wins because the party establishment tipped the scales, many of us will NOT vote for her or any other corporate puppet...

[Squinch]

21. So I guess the only problem you face is that there is a 1% and you're not part of it?

Gender equality, racial equality, LGBT equality, etc are not worthy of your effort?

And PS, if it is an insurrection, doesn't there need to be a groundswell? In the primaries so far, the voter turnout has been lower than previous primaries.

[hoosierlib]

23. Most certainly...and Bernie has been the more progressive record

And its not wealth envy...I do quite well for myself. It's more a matter of fairness and merit. The current system favors those with money and good health. How is someone supposed to overcome their genetics or the socio-economic situation in to which they are born? Effort alone is not enough.

Whose programs or policy proposals do a better job of addressing thise issues? Bernie's by far.

And if Hillary is the nominee...she will lose...

Already unstrusted by independents and moderates...

Bernie is the party's best option...

[Squinch]

39. Most ignorant post of the day.

[earthshine]

107. Hillary = 1%, but you don't want to acknowledge it. nt

[Squinch]

112. Yes. Hillary is wealthy. And?

[earthshine]

138. D'uh! She represents her ilk. nt

[Squinch]

140. Kennedy was wealthy, FDR was wealthy, Carter was pretty wealthy, TR the trustbusting

king was wealthy.

It isn't a disqualifier for me. YMMV.

[earthshine]

145. And those great men had far more integrity than the Clintons ever did.

I used to like her. Was thrilled that she went from being first lady to being my senator in New York.

In 2008, I supported Hillary for president. But, I found her campaigning to be dishonest and vile. I switched to Obama.

[Squinch]

153. For someone who thinks I am not worth arguing with, you sure are chatting with me a lot.

[pangaia]

158. It is not always a matter of wealth but one's behavior.

Is that REALLY so hard to understand? Really?

[Carolina]

193. Hillary

ain't no FDR or JFK

[eridani]

212. And you are supporting the pro-DOMA candidate tohelp LGBT people?

Clinton is a follower on all of those issues as well.

[Perogie]

22. Are you making this up of do you have proof?

Here are just some of Bernie's success in congress.

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-gets-it-done-sanders-record-pushing-through-major-reforms-will-surprise-you

Again this is just an example. Try the google.....lol

[Squinch]

33. None of those actually works against the corporate establishment.

Unless you count the one that says that corporations convicted of a crime have to inform those who were affected by the crime. Which is nice, but corporations already had to do that under other already existing laws.

There isn't much in that list for a 25 year career in Congress, but there are some nice things.

A little money here and there to a worthy cause.

A nice one time bump to health care centers (doesn't hold a candle to Hillary getting permanent health care for millions of kids and getting the National Guard insured.)

There are a lot of achievements in that list that boil down to Bernie pushing amendments to say people shouldn't do things that are already illegal.

But none of the things on that list actually does anything to hinder the corporate establishment.

[geologic]

92. His very existance hinders the coporate establishment...

[Squinch]

141. In what way?

[Katashi_itto]

26. Tell us another one bro

[Squinch]

35. What is Bernie's signature accomplishment in curtailing the corporate establishment?

Tell me one major thing he did to curtail the corporate establishment in 25 years in Congress.

[Katashi_itto]

38. Tell us one major thing Hillary has done to curtail the corporate establishment

other than take fees from them.

[Squinch]

62. OK, I'll help you out. Bernie is the one who is running on the fact that he is going to take down

the corporate establishment.

In 25 years in Congress, here are the three acts that Bernie sponsored that became law:

•S.893 - The Veteran's Compensation Cost of Living Adjustment Act of 2013
•S.885 - A Bill to Designate the Facility of the United States Postal Service Located At 1 Marble Street in Fair Haven, Vermont, as the "Matthew Lyon Post Office Building"
•H.R. 5245 - "To Designate the Facility of the United States Postal Service Located At 1 Marble Street in Fair Haven, Vermont, as the "Matthew Lyon Post Office Building"

Now, I understand that a record is based on more than that, but if he is going to be leading a revolution, I would expect a little more than that.

If I were the corporate establishment, I wouldn't be that scared.

[Katashi_itto]

64. So help me out. List Hillary's accomplishments now.

[Katashi_itto]

65. Which puts him in "Laws Enacted at the highest 25% among Serving 10+ Years; tied with 5 others"

[Squinch]

69. And he has proven his ability to take down the corporate establishment in which of those three?

[Katashi_itto]

71. And tell us where Hillary is in this? Or should I?

[Squinch]

73. She isn't claiming to be leading a revolution. By renaming post offices.

[Katashi_itto]

74. No your right I agree she doesn't. What she does claim changes by the hour.

[geologic]

122. Cuz she ain't...

[Squinch]

126. What are you doing?

[Katashi_itto]

67. Bernie Sanders "Bills Out of Committee highest 15% among All Senators; tied with 2 others"

[Squinch]

72. Yes. He sponsors record numbers of bills. None of them get passed.

[Katashi_itto]

75. Tell us about Hillary's record.

[Katashi_itto]

70. Cosponsors highest 20% among All Senators

Sanders’s bills and resolutions had 365 cosponsors in the 113th Congress. Securing cosponsors is an important part of getting support for a bill, although having more cosponsors does not always mean a bill will get a vote.

[earthshine]

117. You realize the "Squinch" is not worth arguing with.

She, and other Hill supporters on this board attack Bernie, but do not actually promote their own candidate.

And, she's not very good at it.

To me, Bernie has been one of the few voices of reason in the Senate, whether or not bills get passed.

Have a heart, on me.

[Katashi_itto]

123. Yeah I was getting that idea. Thanks for the heart!!

[Squinch]

125. Huh. And yet there you are upthread arguing with me. Go figure.

[nyabingi]

197. It's important for you (and people who think like you)

to remember that for a very long time (until last year actually), Bernie was considered a fringe outsider who just happened to caucus with the Democrats. As a former C-SPAN junkie, I remember seeing Bernie over the years giving impassioned speeches to often empty chambers on Congress and bringing forth legislation that no one paid attention to. My how times have changed.

Politicians are ultimately swayed by what is politically palatable at the given time, and there is not any time in the past 25-30 years or so when the ideas Bernie has always espoused were popular and talked about nationally...until now. Most politicians take vast sums of money from private interests because they want to keep their seats and their power, but public sentiment and mood will trump the money they receive from special interests because you can't take special interest money if the people won't vote you back in office.

Of course many of Bernie's ideas haven't been popular, and many have stood no chance of even being brought to the full Congress, let alone being passed into law. But that was more a sign of the political landscape of those times, not the inefficacy of Bernie's ability to get things passed.

What Bernie has consistently and doggedly presented to the nation is now politically popular, so much so that Republican-lite candidates like Hillary Clinton are trying to pass themselves off as "progressive". When politicians are under huge pressure from their constituents to vote a certain way, the stranglehold of corporate money begins to ease up.

Corporate America is afraid right now because they are not only faced with a popular candidate who is determined to rein them in, but they are faced with an angry population who have had enough of corporate domination of all aspects of our existence.

[Carolina]

194. what is Hillary's signature accomplishment on ANYTHING?!

She is part of Bill Clinton's legacy (the two for one, the 8 years of 'experience'): NAFTA, Telecommunications Bill of 1996, Welfare Reform (not), Three Strikes, overturning Glass-Steagall, etc. She and Bill kept Alan Greenspan at the Fed, placed the then Mr. Goldman Sucks himself Robert Reuben as head of Treasury and hired as financial advisor that abominable Wall Streeter Larry Summers (who lost a $billion from Harvard's endowment!). Those three crashed the economy:



And we, the people (the little people, lots of women and children), reaped the whirlwind of that 1999 Act which ended Glass-Steagall and for which every repuke in the Senate voted AYE while every Dem -- save one -- voted NAY. Bill signed it into law anyway, paying no heed to the canary-in-the-mine Dems who said that this dastardly new law would lead to disaster 10 years hence. Sure enough it did, harming women and families throughout the land. And Wall Street, Hillary's BFF, continues to be such a benefactor for women!

In the Senate, what did she DO? What legislation or amendments to legislation illustrate her initiative or activism on behalf of women and children. The aye votes for IWR, the Patriot Act and Bush's Bankruptcy bill sure were a big help to us all!

Then there was her abysmal management and nasty conduct during the 2008 primary campaign. She had the money, she had the name, she was entitled, she was "in it to win it" and so arrogant that she claimed it would be over by Super Tuesday. But when it wasn't and she was losing, she resorted to the gutter. She praised McCain and derided Obama as someone who only gave pretty speeches. And when the Party urged her to bow out gracefully, she said that she was going to stay in the race through the CA primary because "you never know... remember Bobby Kennedy..." Her insinuation (a veiled wish?) that Obama might be assassinated like RFK was beyond classless and tasteless. It was evil (google Keith Olbermann on that atrocity). And when she finally, gracelessly bowed out, she did so on condition that the Obama organization and DNC pay off her campaign debt. Some management skills, just like her Wall Street benefactors who f--- things up, then expect others to pay for the disaster created.

As SOS, she was also terrible. Honduras, Libya and Syria are a mess. But HRC, the consummate pro-MIC corporatist, never saw a war she didn't like. And last I checked, war is not good for women, children or men!

Now in 2016, HRC is in kitchen sink mode. The surrogates have been unleashed. They have insulted young women for “going where the boys are” and damned all women who don’t support the anointed one. They are impugning the opponent’s integrity and record on Civil Rights and there is more and worse to come. This is 2008 redux with added shock and awe.

This is HRC's history. So, please tell me what she has DONE that is positive or constructive? What is this record she always harkens back to in her me, me, me, mine, mine, mine debate responses and that her supporters mimic? She's in it for herself, she plays sexist gender politics, she lies about her alleged record, she changes her mind with the political winds, she panders, she pads her pockets, and she is the worst sort of Democrat... a founder of the DLC and a triangulator to her core.

[Oilwellian]

201. Wow

[jonestonesusa]

207. Preach!

Waiting for a pro-Clinton response that addresses this. That's what primary season is about.

[Squinch]

211. Here you go:

Here is an article that talks about some of her accomplishments. http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/09/carly-fiorina-debate-hillary-clintons-greatest-accomplishment-213157

The SCHIP program was a VERY big deal and Kennedy, who authored it, said "The children’s health program wouldn’t be in existence today if we didn’t have Hillary pushing for it from the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue."

This article doesn't include the cease fire she brokered between Hamas and Israel, the increase that she authored to the FMLA that was rolled into the defense reauthorization of 2008. It doesn't include the coverage she got with her old enemy Lindsay Graham for National Guard reservists and retirees http://www.nbcnews.com/id/9063246/ns/politics-tom_curry/t/hillary-care-uniform/#.VsDt4XldHIU It doesn't include that she was on the advisory committee to President Obama that led to the killing of Osama Bin Laden.

Here's some more things not on that list:

◾Helped found Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a group dedicated to the betterment of children’s lives by advocating for their health, well-being, and education.
◾Attorney at the Children’s Defense Fund leveling the playing field for children
◾Director of Legal Aid Clinic at the University of Arkansas School of Law
◾Created Arkansas’s Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth because she saw a need for educating young children. Bringing HIPPY to Arkansas enabled parents to be their child’s first teacher and prepare them for a life of learning.

These next are a little fuzzy, and I don't feel like looking up exactly what her role was. But feel free:
◾“Played a leading role in creation of the Adoption and Safe Families Act and the Foster Care Independence Act”
◾Successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health
◾Helped investigate the affects of Gulf War Syndrome of the Veterans afflicted
◾Created the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice
◾Initiated and helped guide the Adoption and Safe Families Act helping in children in foster care move faster in to permanent homes


These three were big deals:
◾Declared to the United Nations that “women’s rights are human rights” which at the time she said it, was a very big deal
◾Commissioner on the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe
◾With Chuck Schumer, secured $21 billion in funding for the World Trade Center site’s redevelopment

AND... She won a Grammy!

There is more, but there's a start for you of her accomplishments.

If you are going to hold the things that Bill did against her, I have nothing to say about that.

[Katashi_itto]

213. Thats it? Nothing to rein in Corporate America? The very thing you were screaming about Bernie?

[Carolina]

214. Exactly!

Whatever she did ( along time ago) as atty for the CDF, was undone by her and Bill's Welfare Reform Act. That law led CDF founder Marian Wright Edelman's husband Peter to resign in protest from his position as under secretary of DHHS in the Clinton Administration.

Getting funding for rebuilding the WTC was something that Congress would have done anyway... so I am not impressed

CHIP was a collaboration with Teddy Kennedy, the true 'liberal lion' of the Senate. He was the likely mover and shaker behind it and also humble enough to share the glory with HRC.

Bottom line: her coziness with Wall Street, her vote for IWR, her support of the TPP and fracking, her tenure at State -- all the recent history -- show who HRC is today and why her record is shady and her judgment deeply flawed!

[Katashi_itto]

215. Agree!

[Squinch]

216. Bernie's schtick is reining in corporate America. Hers before she entered the

world stage was women, children and families.

Now Bernie has done EXACTLY NOTHING to accomplish his stated goals.

Hillary has done quite a lot to accomplish hers.

You still haven't provided a list of Bernie's accomplishments. I'll broaden it out. ANY KIND of accomplishment. Show me ANYTHING he has gotten done.

[Katashi_itto]

217. Lol its already listed by another poster so spare me your dribble.

[Squinch]

218. Then it should be no trouble for you to post it here.

[Katashi_itto]

220. Functionally illiterate? It is on this OP, look it up your damn self.

[Squinch]

221. We both know that means you have nothing. We also both know you will never admit that,

so ok. But for your own edification, do go look it up.

Bernie has done NOTHING. And will continue to do NOTHING.

Deny it all you like, but the record - or lack of record - is out there.

[Katashi_itto]

222. Lol...If you say so.

You want to pretend her record isn't shit fine. Play in your own bubble.

What it really boils down to.

I will not under any circumstance vote for Hillary. I will write in Bernie's name if thats my only option.

Get it padre?

You can spin shit day and night, any way you like.

Please continue.

[Squinch]

223. Among Democrats it's generally understood by non-morons that the most important outcome

of this election is that a Republican shouldn't take the Presidency.

So your plans don't surprise me at all.

[Katashi_itto]

224. Among 3rd way Vichy "Dems" your ongoing tactics don't surprise me at all.

[enid602]

37. VA

One only needs to look to Bernie's chairmanship of the VA Senate Committee to see how little impact he has had.

[Squinch]

63. Very good point.

[kristopher]

84. Have you read this?

From the Sept 2014 journal "Perspectives on Politics"

Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens
Martin Gilens and Benjamin I. Page

ABSTRACT

Each of four theoretical traditions in the study of American politics—which can be characterized as theories of Majoritarian Electoral Democracy, Economic-Elite Domination, and two types of interest-group pluralism, Majoritarian Pluralism and Biased Pluralism—offers different predictions about which sets of actors have how much influence over public policy: average citizens; economic elites; and organized interest groups, mass-based or business-oriented.
A great deal of empirical research speaks to the policy influence of one or another set of actors, but until recently it has not been possible to test these contrasting theoretical predictions against each other within a single statistical model. We report on an effort to do so, using a unique data set that includes measures of the key variables for 1,779 policy issues.
Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence. The results provide substantial support for theories of Economic-Elite Domination and for theories of Biased Pluralism, but not for theories of Majoritarian Electoral Democracy or Majoritarian Pluralism.

The last paragraph of their findings:

Despite the seemingly strong empirical support in previous studies for theories of majoritarian democracy, our analyses suggest that majorities of the American public actually have little influence over the policies our government adopts. Americans do enjoy many features central to democratic governance, such as regular elections, freedom of speech and association, and a wide-spread (if still contested) franchise. But we believe that if policymaking is dominated by powerful business organizations and a small number of affluent Americans, then America’s claims to being a democratic society are seriously threatened.

https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf

"...America’s claims to being a democratic society are seriously threatened."


If you'd like to see how this is viewed by others, the press gave it a fair amount of coverage when it came out.
For example, http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/is-america-an-oligarchy

[Squinch]

85. I don't dispute that. I dispute that Bernie has ever done or will ever do anything to change that.

[kristopher]

88. WTH?? Of course you disputed that!!!

Quote: "It is not a civil war. It is not the corporatist establishment against the people."
- Squinch 9:05 A.M. post #13

[Squinch]

99. It is not the corporatist establishment against the people.

Because Bernie HAS DONE and WILL DO exactly nothing of what he is saying he will do against the "corporatist establishment."

The situation described in your article will not be changed one iota by Bernie.

[kristopher]

132. Hillary is taking millions from the corporate lobbyists - right now.

She " HAS DONE and WILL DO exactly nothing" because of those millions.

Bernie's views and his intent to act should he be elected, on the other hand, are deeply rooted in sound principles and a vast body of accumulated knowledge.

[passiveporcupine]

106. You love your memes don't you?

they spread so fast and you don't even have to think about it...just repeat it over and over and over.

[Squinch]

110. You say meme, I say description of actual events. Potato, potahto.

[passiveporcupine]

116. You can have an opinion but you can't make up facts

Establishment politics is the two party system run by money. Bernie has always been an Independent...independent of the establishment, and his whole life he has fought against the establishment of the two party system that is run for the wealthy and not the 99%.

[Squinch]

119. And in that fight of his whole life, he has gotten precious little done.

[passiveporcupine]

135. Again, your opinion, your meme

Not the facts.

[Squinch]

136. Well, no. That IS a fact.

In 25 years in Congress, 3 of his sponsored bills have been enacted.

Three.

Two were to name the same post office.

[passiveporcupine]

144. I dare you to read this

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/6/1428616/-Bernie-Sanders-What-the-Hell-Have-You-Done-for-Us-Lately

[Squinch]

149. Look carefully at that list.

Most are bills he voted for. That's good, but he didn't write them and he is not responsible for them.

A lot of the language is very squirrelly. For example:

He later secures $3.2 billion in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 for the grant program.

This sounds great, doesn't it? But that's the Recovery Act. He did nothing but vote for it. Nice, but not revolutionary.

The Audit the Fed act he "worked with Ron Paul" on didn't pass. Neither did the legislation to "break up the big banks." I agree that he introduces a lot of legislation, and it sounds good. But he knows they're never going to pass. They're kind of a kubuki act. You may think of that as an accomplishment, but I don't.

Lots of it has to do with tweaks he contributed to the ACA, along with many, many other people. And now he's trashing the ACA. SO what's that about?

The accomplishment of being Chairman of the Veteran Affairs committee? He should probably not be listing that as an accomplishment, given that he ignored the VA scandal for years.

The LIHEAP thing is great. But he didn't create LIHEAP. It's been around for decades. He did get 17 million dollars for Vermont, which is great. But again, not revolutionary.

I could go on, but you get the idea.

I know you are going to respond by saying something to the effect that "nothing would be good enough for me." But if you honestly look at what he has done, you have to admit that it isn't much for 25 years in Congress.

[passiveporcupine]

159. Put up a comparison to anyone else and show me what he "could" have done

especially since his fight has been against the system the whole time he has been "in" the system. So you need to compare him to someone who has fought his same issues.

Thank you.

[Squinch]

161. No. I need to look at what he has done and decide for myself if I think that record supports the

idea that he is capable of leading a revolution against that same system that you are saying tied his hands for 25 years.

My answer is no.

[passiveporcupine]

163. Oh, I should have included this

Lots of it has to do with tweaks he contributed to the ACA, along with many, many other people. And now he's trashing the ACA. SO what's that about?

Seriously? If you have to ask this, you haven't been paying attention.

[Squinch]

165. Well then those don't really count as accomplishments, do they?

[sgmcenroe]

109. Sanders has been successful

He uses the amendment process to change and better bills, and has often even gotten improvements on GOP bills.

[Squinch]

118. See post 33, responding to the

link above it that lists his amendment achievements.

Yes. There are a few very nice things in that list, but it certainly isn't very impressive for 25 years in Congress, and its certainly nothing groundshaking.

[creatives4innovation]

146. Dubbed the Ammendment King

Sanders sponsored and co-sponsored over 6,000 bills in the House and Senate; he introduced 5,286 of those bills. 704 made it out of Committee; 206 became law.

[Squinch]

150. But only 3 that he sponsored were made into law. And two of those were about naming the same post

office.

Co-sponsoring is nice, but it means that he didn't write them, he just agreed with them. And you will find that during her tenure in the Senate, Hillary co-sponsored the vast majority of the same bills as Bernie.

And co-sponsoring is not really revolutionary.

[creatives4innovation]

178. From Wikipedia for Senator Clinton

While a member of the U.S. Senate, Clinton sponsored 713 pieces of legislation. Of these, three became law. The three were: establishes the Kate Mullany National Historic Site in Troy, NY, names post office after Major George Quamo, named U.S. Route Highway after late journalist, Tim Russert. Source.

[Squinch]

182. Yes, but unlike Bernie, she is not promising a revolution. She is open about

the fact that her accomplishments have been in cooperation with others, and that is her advantage.

Here is an article that talks about some of her accomplishments. http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/09/carly-fiorina-debate-hillary-clintons-greatest-accomplishment-213157

The SCHIP program was a VERY big deal and Kennedy, who authored it, said "The children’s health program wouldn’t be in existence today if we didn’t have Hillary pushing for it from the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue."

This article doesn't include the cease fire she brokered between Hamas and Israel, the increase that she authored to the FMLA that was rolled into the defense reauthorization of 2008. It doesn't include the coverage she got with her old enemy Lindsay Graham for National Guard reservists and retirees http://www.nbcnews.com/id/9063246/ns/politics-tom_curry/t/hillary-care-uniform/#.VsDt4XldHIU It doesn't include that she was on the advisory committee to President Obama that led to the killing of Osama Bin Laden.

Here's some more things not on that list:

◾Helped found Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a group dedicated to the betterment of children’s lives by advocating for their health, well-being, and education.
◾Attorney at the Children’s Defense Fund leveling the playing field for children
◾Director of Legal Aid Clinic at the University of Arkansas School of Law
◾Created Arkansas’s Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth because she saw a need for educating young children. Bringing HIPPY to Arkansas enabled parents to be their child’s first teacher and prepare them for a life of learning.

These next are a little fuzzy, and I don't feel like looking up exactly what her role was. But feel free:
◾“Played a leading role in creation of the Adoption and Safe Families Act and the Foster Care Independence Act”
◾Successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health
◾Helped investigate the affects of Gulf War Syndrome of the Veterans afflicted
◾Created the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice
◾Initiated and helped guide the Adoption and Safe Families Act helping in children in foster care move faster in to permanent homes


These three were big deals:
◾Declared to the United Nations that “women’s rights are human rights” which at the time she said it, was a very big deal
◾Commissioner on the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe
◾With Chuck Schumer, secured $21 billion in funding for the World Trade Center site’s redevelopment

AND... She won a Grammy!

There is more, but there's a start for you of her accomplishments

[JRLeft]

195. She's promising more stagnation and corporatism. That's fuckin problem.

[basselope]

155. Your message is self contradictory...

"he has been hawking his message against corporations for a long, long time.

This persona of Bernie being the crusader against the corporate establishment has no basis."

That is the very definition of being a crusader against the corporate establishment. The fact that we have a largely corrupt political system that LOVES its corporate donors doesn't change what he has been trying to do.

Bernie is the Serpico of Congress.

[mgmaggiemg]

190. great post

[roguevalley]

166. she vacays with Kissinger. that is all. Truly.

[Beacool]

173. The funny thing is that some of you really believe this.

[bullimiami]

3. Exactly. nt.

[Squinch]

5. It comes from the combination of a big Bernie majority here and the silly jury system.

Bernie supporters know that they can say ANYTHING, and I do mean ANYTHING, and it likely will not be hidden. Hillary supporters know that they can expect regular hides for things that really do not cross any lines.

The combination makes the most loony feel invincible, and they are right in this feeling. It's a kind of group manipulation of the message of the board that requires that each comment against Hillary has to be dopier and more destructive than the last.

[Empowerer]

14. You nailed it!

[betsuni]

15. +1

[DrDan]

20. bingo

[Stuckinthebush]

44. Yes, indeed. This

Spot on.

[geologic]

94. Ouch, er out;damn spot...

[Enthusiast]

49. I call bullshit on that nonsense. I have had posts hidden for the most innocuous reasons.

[Bobbie Jo]

59. You're describing the exception

rather than the rule.

Anyone taking an honest look at what has been going on here sees this.

I call "bullshit" right back at ya.

[Squinch]

76. This was NOT hidden:

On second thought I take that big FUCK YOU back. I wouldn't fuck you even with someone else's dog's cock. You have proven yourself to be utterly and irretrievably morally repugnant. You have stooped to depths that are lower than whale shit in the fucking Marianas trench. There's a lot of pressure down there for anyone with a shred of fucking decency but once your balls are shriveled to the obvious pinhead size it affects the brain and there's little left than to attempt to smear the shit on the walls when it didn't stick whilst you were flinging it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1107&pid=30492


Multiple posts saying that this was disgusting and needed to be hidden WERE hidden.

[Enthusiast]

77. I didn't say it.

[Squinch]

80. No, but this is just one illustration of the fact that Bernie supporters can

go as batshit crazy as they want, and their friends back them up and let it happen.

[earthshine]

137. Did you alert on that post? You should have.

I'd have voted to hide it. Seriously, the fella needs to be banned from DU.

But, if vacuousness or bellicosity were alert-worthy offenses, I'd vote to hide most of yours.

Tearing down Sanders does not elevate Hillary. It does not contribute to a productive conversation.

What is the point? Do you think you will change any minds with your always-negative posts?

[Squinch]

139. About 14 people alerted on it. It went to MIRT. I and three others made posts

complaining about it. The four of us got hides. That post was never hidden.

And as for your other comments, I guess you think your posts are sunshine and roses? Seriously, this is another Sanders supporter thing I have noticed. They project A LOT!

[earthshine]

147. It's too bad about the profanity-laden post. It shouldn't have been that way.

That post could be seen as a real embarrassment to Sanders' supporters.

I am far from sunshine and roses. Definitely more of a cynical complainer, who really does not know how to solve the world's problems.

This is a large reason why I'm on the DU. I'm looking for solutions.

But, I do know that the very mutual vitriol between the two Democratic camps adds to the problems.

[NurseJackie]

50. A tool for peer-reviewed civility and courtesy is now a weapon ...

... being abused to silence critics. It's really a shame and doesn't reflect well on those who do this. (I could go on, but, well ... you know why not.)

[geologic]

96. Why??? Please do tell...

[NurseJackie]

103. Not a chance! (I'm smarter than some think I am.)

Nice try, though.

[cherokeeprogressive]

176. You sure?

[Squinch]

183. That was gratuitously nasty.

[Bobbie Jo]

56. Exactly right. nt

[JRLeft]

98. Bullshit I've had plenty of posts hidden by Hillary supporters.

[Squinch]

102. Then they must have been pretty damn awful.

[JRLeft]

114. No, it's called censorship by the way I've called out BS supporters for censorship too.

[Squinch]

130. Well if they weren't awful, you are very unlucky. The odds are about 90-10 in your favor.

[Odin2005]

167. Bullshit, I had a post calling Hillary a Democratic equivalent of Nixon hidden by the Hillarians.

It is the Hillarians censoring us Bernie supporters, not the other way around.

[Squinch]

169. As I said above, it must either have been a really awful post, or you were really unlucky. The odds

are about 90-10 in your favor.

Comparing the Democratic frontrunner to Nixon is pretty crappy.

[Odin2005]

170. Truth hurts.

Both are politicians who only care about their own power.

[Squinch]

171. Yeah. I can see how you might say something that might offend even those on your own side.

[Beacool]

174. Hear, hear!!!!

The only RW talking point I haven't seen used against Hillary is the RW's accusation that she had Vince Foster killed. I'm waiting for that little nugget to be included in a post any minute now.

Therefore, I choose to take everything they say as the rants of a fringe group and ignore them. It's not worth raising one's blood pressure.

As I keep repeating, DU is the mirror image of Free Republic. Same extremism, different party.

[Squinch]

179. Oh, no. I think that came up early. But iirc it was hidden.

[Beacool]

184. Wow.........

They really got no scruples or shame.

[livetohike]

6. It's not changing anyone's vote. My ignore list is long in the 12 years I've been here, I never used

that function or the trash function until now.

[mcar]

27. As is mine

I never used ignore or trash until this primary season.

[Karma13612]

9. For the umpteenth time:

It's the primaries.

Supporters of candidates are going to vehemently support their candidate and criticize the other.

When the future of this tattered country is at stake, do you blame us?

Do we go to extremes sometimes?

YES

Except for some rare outbursts, I myself am trying to stay on an even keel.

But, it goes both ways. Hillary and her surrogates are in this fight, and getting pretty nasty as well.

After the convention is the time to ask us to come together and save the fights for the GOP

[Ed Suspicious]

10. Here's one. Hillary chose to believe the Bush administration which resulted in her voting to bring

our country to another country's soil in order to go to war. She used her power to help take our country to war. Is that a smear? Is that off the rails ridiculous? I read it as factual, but YMMV.

Imagine sending a trained killer into your neighbor's house to kill them because you felt their boss was a dangerous man.

She did that on a grand scale based on shoddy information, information that was being disputed by UN weapons inspectors, from a group of neocons whose known international proclivities include "preemptive war."

That confluence of circumstances should invalidate any claim to power she might feel she is worthy.

[Happyhippychick]

11. It is apparent to those of us who don't have a strong opinion for either candidate

And it's very disheartening frankly. I rarely come here because of it.

So flame away Bernie people, I expect you will. And I don't really care.

[notadmblnd]

81. Well that's not an unbiased statement

Some of HRC supporters are every bit as mean and nasty and rude as some of Sander's supporters. They've got the hides and timeout to prove it.

You see, that is an unbiased statement. I do have a strong opinion of both candidates.

[djean111]

12. Constant attacks on Bernie and his supporters around here are radical, off the rails, and

ridiculous.

As is being ordered, on a daily basis, to support Hillary.

Oh, and the examples you give? IMO are true, not wild-eyed radicalism. Plus - this is the primary season. Get used to it, or ignore it - but accept that you are not the arbiter.

[Empowerer]

18. You sound like the little kid who, not being clever enough to challenge his big sister

just puts his hands on his hips, bobs his head back and forth, and repeats everything she says word for word.

It's not effective when 5-year-olds do it and it doesn't work very well here, either.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

60. 0-7. I was #3.

On Sun Feb 14, 2016, 09:16 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

You sound like the little kid who, not being clever enough to challenge his big sister
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1229865

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Telling a long time poster that they are a 5 year old and acting like one is not appropriate. This type of immature name calling needs to stop.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Feb 14, 2016, 09:22 AM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Empowerer is right. And it's another example of trying to hide tame things that Hillary supporters (on this site) say in response to juvenile things Bernie supporters (on this site) say. Leave it.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Empowerer]

66. And then run to Mommy and Daddy when they don't get their way ...

Thanks for the support.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

68. No problem.

[malletgirl02]

111. What the Bernie supporter said was not juvenile.

While I don't think the alerted post should have been hidden, it was the post that was juvenile, not the Bernie supporter's post he was responding to.

[noiretextatique]

177. I agree. Clinton's desperation is being mirrored by her supporters eom

[geologic]

101. "You sound like the little kid who, not being clever enough to challenge his "BIG SISTER"...

[malletgirl02]

131. DU jury results.

A Clinton supporter poster the DU jury results, one of the comments claimed that the alerted post was in response to a juvenile comment by a Sanders supporter. I looked at the comment and the Sander's supporter's comment was not at all juvenile. If anything it was the alerted post by the Clinton supporter that was juvenile attack.

[uponit7771]

160. killin it

[Broward]

19. A pro-Kissinger corporatist should get pushback.

[hobbit709]

25. And you of course are as pure as the new fallen snow when it comes to Bernie

[Art_from_Ark]

41. He was pretty pure about Hillary last time around

RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 09:14 PM
Response to Original message

230. Hillary will say ANYTHING and do ANYTHING to win. STINKING ROTTEN !!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5168167

[Broward]

121. Thanks for finding again.

Looks like we're getting trolled.

[LuvLoogie]

28. I think DU might have tape worms...

[still_one]

29. you missed one, "Hillary killed Scalia"

[geologic]

104. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT!!!

[betsuni]

30. Like listening to a bunch of damn parrots mindlessly repeating stupid nonsense.

The only ones who are fooled are the other parrots.

[Bonobo]

31. Meta-crap. Will not alert since it is so damned amusing.

In fact, happy to kick!

[99Forever]

32. The choice is simple.

The parasitic rich or We the People.

Easy, peasy.

I know who gets my vote and it isn't the entitled, entrenched, worthless, corrupt establishment.

See if you can change my mind.

Go for it.

I dare you.

[cantbeserious]

40. Your Opinion Only - Others See The World Differently

eom

[jalan48]

42. Hillary Progressive? Maybe when she's hanging out with the Wall Street crowd.

[Myrina]

43. ... your nearly daily screeds like this are beyond tiring.

Seriously.

[casperthegm]

45. Sorry you feel that way

But rather than general comments that lead to hurtful back and forth, I'll do you a favor and list exactly why I am not a supporter of Clinton. See below and feel free to engage in a meaningful conversation based on the actual issues. This is where I usually hear crickets from the Clinton supporters.

Her position on Keystone (or lack of one). She waited until the same week that Obama made his decision before announcing where she stood. That's not standing up for the environment. That's politics.

Wall Street money. Whether it's impression or reality, it's there and it can't help but make me wonder. Generally speaking, it's hard to imagine the banks and Wall Street throwing all of that money at her and saying "here you go, we don't expect anything in return."

Her opposition to Glass Stegall. Though I do recall her telling the banks to "cut it out." Thanks Hillary.

Her Iraq vote. You may be sick of hearing about it but it's a big deal. It was poor judgement and lack of foresight. Sanders saw that it would destabilize the region. And it did. Now we not have the legacy of the Iraq war, we have the current ISIS situation.

Speaking of that, there is the no-fly zone proposal. Another poor foreign policy decision. What happens when Russian jets cross that line? You have to be prepared for that and I don't see it.

The email and server investigation by the FBI. Sorry, it's real. It very well could end up being nothing in the end, but what if it's not? What if it drags on until the general election and then she gets indicted? Then you end up with a republican in the White House.

Gay marriage. You can see how she has flip flopped over the years, as confirmed via politifact. Another change based on the political winds.

All of this and more have led me to distrust her judgement and her authenticity.

[azureblue]

46. yep

And the people posting this crap must think we're a bunch of stupid 6th grade boys. All they are doing is making themselves look stupid and desperate. If you think wild accusations, name calling and mudslinging will get your candidate a win, you are wrong.

My grandfather,who was an old line pol, told me this "if you haven't got anything to run on, no track record, if you have things to keep hidden, then sling mud, engage in character assassination, and maybe the idiots will fall for it and ignore the fact that your candidate isn't fit or qualified to hold office. So, to the posters of this crap, are you saying, by slinging mud, that your candidate isn't fit to hold office?


You want a "discussion"? Then stop the mud slinging and discuss facts that are relevant to fixing America. Talk about why your own candidate is better, what their plans for the future are... Show the track record. Tell the facts about your candidate. But if you can't do that then GTFO.

[betsuni]

47. There's a "Hillary killed feminism" one. KILLED. Hillary murders everything and everyone.

She is very busy!

[Dem2]

48. It is over the top.

Last edited Sun Feb 14, 2016, 11:50 AM - Edit history (1)

I like both candidates, but I first have to trash 10-20 slanderous attack threads before I open anything here. 90% of these are over-the-top fox-news-like attacks. Edit: to clarify, a small percentage of those I trash are attacks on Bernie, but Hillary enjoys the majority of the slanderous garbage dumped here.

[ladjf]

51. I disagree with this OP and agree with most of the counter posts here. nt

[DFW]

53. It's the endless repetition that gets me

If there's a point to be made, I can see that, whether I agree with it or not. But make it and move on.

If it's made a few dozen times a day, it's not a point to be made any more. It's an infomercial. More than likely, one that is paid for, and designed to be made so often as to dull the senses of anyone who is left undecided (such as yours truly). I say the same for attacks on Sanders. Is Hillary burying him in the polls in South Carolina? That's nice. Tell me once, and I'll listen. Tell me twenty times, and I won't. ANY post with "corporatist" in it is one I just glide over. Nothing to read here that hasn't been posted three hundred times already in the last week. It's like hearing "liberal" on Fox Noise.

If all you have to offer is to shout the same thing a few hundred times a month, and no one is paying you to do it, then I'm sure there are plenty of Republican sites that cater to that level of discourse. Judging from the last "debate," if it could seriously be called that, they seem to get off on that sort of thing. I find it to be about as intriguing as watching paint dry.

[malletgirl02]

55. Hillary supporters also attack Bernie Sanders.

It goes both ways, Hillary Clinton supporters are not innocent either.

[Bohemianwriter]

57. If the shoe fits....

If you support your candidate's mudslinging, don't expect people to shut up about it, while complaining about attacks on her while defending attacks on others characters...

NOT a good way to attract Bernie supporters if your candidate gets selected by superdelegates over votes..

What a candidate pledges, is not making it compulsory for all his supporters to do the same.

So tell us:

What has the Clintons done for minority communities the last 20 years?

[Logical]

58. Here is some advice, ALERT THEM or quit whining. nt

[Bobbie Jo]

61. lol

riiiiight.

What nonsense.

[cherokeeprogressive]

78. Stop lecturing people.

[Sancho]

79. How many of these attacks are really undercover RW operations?

We may never know, because it's hard to tell the difference between an anti-Hillary hater, a naive person who falls for an unsubstantiated meme, or a troll from the conservative side. Certainly some attacks on Hillary are identical or parallel stories on the other side, so they are an unreasonable way to describe good Democratic candidates.

The way to tell the difference between truth and fiction is to carefully consider criticisms objectively - and then if your opinion differs that's fine. Instead, some people are so desperate that they stretch the truth, resort to personal attacks, and spread propaganda.

Yes, the anti-Hillary attacks on DU are approaching the level of GOP silliness about Obama (birth certificates, etc.). Even if I like Hillary better than Bernie, I don't think that Bernie is a spy for Israel or that he has millions of dollars stashed in the Cayman Islands! Making up nutty acquisitions is wasting everyone's time.

Character assassination by some posters is likely an attempt to make their candidate "better". All it really does is say something about the judgment of the poster and demeans the candidate they support.

[CoffeeCat]

82. You forgot her warmongering and corporate toe sucking

In my opinion those are the most important reasons for detesting her policies.

She chose Robert Kagan to be one of her most trusted foreign-policy advisors--while she was Secretary of State. Kagan, the founder of PNAC and the grandfather of the neocon movement, has no business anywhere near a Democrat--unless that Democrat is giving them a lecture about how their sociopathic warmongering is driving the country into the ditch.

Hillary's entrenchment in corporate interests is revolting. She's a part of an issue foundational to our democracy. Corporate money is a cancer within our political system that has left our politicians beholden to and serving the corporations--not "We The People." The corporations are winning, as these bought-and-paid-for politicians regulate, deregulate and enrich these corporate interests. If we don't fix this issue--we don't have a democracy.

It's not personal, when it comes to Clinton. I don't know Hillary Clinton. This is business. Her policies are wrong for America.

[RiverLover]

86. +1000000!

Corporate money is a cancer within our political system.

Can't be said often enough!!!

[workinclasszero]

89. Totally agree

It seems as if the goal on democratic underground has changed from supporting and electing democrats to destroying the democratic party and all democrats other than BS.

[geologic]

113. Just tryin' to keep it from becoming the DNCGROUND...

[catnhatnh]

91. He may

I won't.

[DCBob]

97. Sickening. I lost all respect for those types.

Good post.

[sgmcenroe]

100. When the Clinton campaign

cleans up its own act it can start acting all high and mighty.

[Android3.14]

105. I'm more concerned with the constant attacks regarding her policies and character

Hillary voted for the IWR.
The majority corporate support of her candidacy means she is a puppet of the 1%.
Hillary has no ethical or moral standard for which she stands.
Hillary fails to support publicly funded college, a living wage, and universal healthcare.
Hillary runs a dirty campaign.

Those attacks are the ones that are actually hurting her.

[Got it]

108. HRC has earned the criticism

Her campaign has oozed sleaze. Her judgement is beyond questionable. Her past speaks for itself.

Frankly, I think your outrage is comical.

[BlueMTexpat]

115. I absolutely agree.

[Scalded Nun]

124. What a joke

You are confusing facts with opinion.

She has earned, and continues to earn, the criticism.

The fact that they strike so close to home in their alignment and truth just make them seem like attacks.

[Carolina]

196. Exactly!

She is part of Bill Clinton's legacy (the two for one, the 8 years of 'experience'): NAFTA, Telecommunications Bill of 1996, Welfare Reform (not), Three Strikes, overturning Glass-Steagall, etc. She and Bill kept Alan Greenspan at the Fed, placed the then Mr. Goldman Sucks himself Robert Reuben as head of Treasury and hired as financial advisor that abominable Wall Streeter Larry Summers (who lost a $billion from Harvard's endowment!). Those three and their brilliant ideas crashed the economy



And we, the people (the little people, lots of women and children), reaped the whirlwind of that 1999 Act which ended Glass-Steagall and for which every repuke in the Senate voted AYE while every Dem -- save one -- voted NAY. Bill signed it into law anyway, paying no heed to the canary-in-the-mine Dems who said that this dastardly new law would lead to disaster 10 years hence. Sure enough it did, harming women and families throughout the land. Meanwhile Wall Street, Hillary's BFF, continues to be such a benefactor for women!

In the Senate, what did she DO? What legislation or amendments to legislation illustrate her initiative or activism on behalf of women and children. The aye votes for IWR, the Patriot Act and Bush's Bankruptcy bill sure were a big help to us all!

Then there was her abysmal management and nasty conduct during the 2008 primary campaign. She had the money, she had the name, she was entitled, she was "in it to win it" and so arrogant that she claimed it would be over by Super Tuesday. But when it wasn't and she was losing, she resorted to the gutter. She praised McCain and derided Obama as someone who only gave pretty speeches. And when the Party urged her to bow out gracefully, she said that she was going to stay in the race through the CA primary because "you never know... remember Bobby Kennedy..." Her insinuation (a veiled wish?) that Obama might be assassinated like RFK was beyond classless and tasteless. It was evil (google Keith Olbermann on that atrocity). And when she finally, gracelessly bowed out, she did so on condition that the Obama organization and DNC pay off her campaign debt. Some management skills, just like her Wall Street benefactors who f--- things up, then expect others to pay for the disaster created.

As SOS, she was also terrible. Honduras, Libya and Syria are a mess. But HRC, the consummate pro-MIC corporatist, never saw a war she didn't like. And last I checked, war is not good for women, children or men!

Now in 2016, HRC is in kitchen sink mode. The surrogates have been unleashed. They have insulted young women for “going where the boys are” and damned all women who don’t support the anointed one. They are impugning the opponent’s integrity and record on Civil Rights and there is more and worse to come. This is 2008 redux with added shock and awe.

This is HRC's history. So, please tell me what she has DONE that is positive or constructive? What is this record she always harkens back to in her me, me, me, mine, mine, mine debate responses and that her supporters mimic? She's in it for herself, she plays sexist gender politics, she lies about her alleged record, she changes her mind with the political winds, she panders, she pads her pockets, and she is the worst sort of Democrat... a founder of the DLC and a triangulator to her core.

[SheenaR]

127. Scroll up and down

The GD-P list. It goes both ways. All
I have to do is look at some of your OPs to find evidence

[yourpaljoey]

128. Bernie may be our last best chance

Bernie's truth telling is essential.
I want more, much more, not less.

[hopeforchange2008]

129. Stating the truth is not an attack.

This is similar to LePage's cries that the media is to blame for his being in the headlines, but the fact that he continues to say appalling things is not the media's fault. They are just reporting it like it is.

Hillary is conducting herself and her campaign the same way that she did against Obama in 2008, and it not appealing.

Now, not all Hillary supports are corrupt, but they have an agenda, and it seems as though the attitude is that all's fair even if it is misleading and disingenuous.

[earthside]

133. Well, I'm not making that pledge.

And ... I'm not making "wild-eyed" charges against her.

Hillary Clinton is a disaster for the Democratic Party in 2016 because she has been on every side of almost every progressive issue for the past thirty years.

She is consequently untrustworthy and undependable; she is a representative of the upper, upper one percent who parties with Henry Kissinger at the Oscar de la Renta estate -- she is NOT one of us.

Those 'political realities' aren't 'radical' -- they are true and they are not "off the rails of reality".

What is becoming increasingly ridiculous is the notion that Hillary Clinton can win in November.
She is a loser.

[BillZBubb]

134. Right back atcha, RB!

There are equally radical attacks on Senator Sanders here. Neither side is acting like angels.

But guess what? That's politics.

If Hillary does win the nomination, what you've seen here is only the tip of the iceberg in what awaits her from the republicans. They are going to run her through the meat grinder. What you consider "radical" attacks will pale in comparison. In a way, getting all her negatives fully aired in the primaries will help inoculate her in the general campaign. The voters will already have been exposed to and processed the information. Giving the republicans no surprise targets of attack is a good situation.

[mgmaggiemg]

151. exactly

the interesting thing is I don't see how they think immaturity will bring HRC supporters to the other side...which makes me think they are the t-partiers trolling DU....attempting to divide and conquer by insulting both sides....which I suspect is the case

[kerry-is-my-prez]

187. As someone who likes both candidates, it is a cesspool in here. Both sides piss me off. n/t

[mgmaggiemg]

188. I will agree surprised?

[bettyellen]

209. This has occurred to loads of people- many have left for a while....

because we all know the nastiest will be gone soon enough.

[basselope]

152. She voted for the Iraq War

She deserves it all and a whole lot more for all the blood on her hands.

[GreatGazoo]

154. "Reality"?

'Clinton campaign loses its soul..."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/2/8/1481801/-I-m-Not-with-Her-Hillary-s-Media-Wipeout-Just-Ended-the-Clinton-Era

Time Retracts slander of Sanders:
http://time.com/4220480/bernie-sanders-disputed-civil-rights-photo-1962/

Far beyond DU, in the land of reality....

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=&w=1484

[Fearless]

156. Hearing a lot of platitutdes and no actual defense against any claim made

Or citation of where your specific examples come from OR the integrity of the sources they allegedly came from.

[MrMickeysMom]

157. Here's an idea... Tell her to "CUT IT OUT!"

Or, at least tell her handlers that.

The Clintons don't seem to be able to run a campaign that stays away from destroying feminism, destroying her opponents' character, and the DLC's infusion into democracy with their hand up the ass of every other puppet running against REAL Democrats!

[Lorien]

162. Hmm, I'm not seeing any of those. How about you Hillary supporters talk about the ISSUES

instead of playing the victim while pulling one dirty trick after another on Bernie? I would support Hillary if it weren't for the issues listed below. If you can convince me, issue by issue, that I, as a liberal Democrat, should vote for her because she'll represent me as a left of center pro-environment, anti war, pro campaign finance reform DEMOCRATIC (which means LEFT of center; if you are right of center, please choose another party) candidate. So let's hear it; what are your defenses for Hillary's positions on:

Iraq
TPP
KXL
Pro arctic drilling
Pro for Profit Prisons
Pro Monsanto
Bankruptcy bill
Voting for a border fence
Saying child migrants should be sent home
Using her position as SoS to push fracking on the rest of the world
Wall Street donations
Six digit speaking fees
Taking money from weapons deals
Honduras
Comments about nuking Iran
Voted to raise credit card interest rates
NAFTA
DOMA
DADT
Opposing gay marriage in New York State
Brownbeck Amendments
Glass-Steagall
No living wage
No free college
No universal health care (ACA coverage gap....ACA will never provide UHC)
No medical Marijuana
Supports mandatory sentencing
Says that she's "proud of" the way Walmart does business
Libya
Yemen
Syria
Egypt
United States-Chile Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act
United States-Singapore Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act
Free trade - Oman agreement
Voted FOR Gitmo. --- Hillary voted against the Byrd ammendment and against a large majority of democrats to reduce Guatanamo funding by $36,000,000. She joined the republican majority against the majority of democrats in supporting Guantanamo.
Pro death penalty
Pro cluster bombing
Took millions from arms dealers, then awarded them huge contracts


Hillary wants to attack Iran: http://www.globalresearch.ca/hillary-clinton-if-im-president-we-will-attack-iran/5460484

Hillary pushed Fracking on the rest of the planet: http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/09/hillary-clinton-fracking-shale-state-department-chevron

Hillary and childhood poverty: http://www.salon.com/2015/10/15/the_worst_thing_hillary_clinton_has_ever_done/

What Hillary calls "feminism" : https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/03/hillary-clinton-womens-rights-feminism/

How women workers faired at Walmart when Hillary was on it's board:

Hillary takes millions in campaign cash from her "enemies": http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/10/14/hillary-takes-millions-in-campaign-cash-from-enemies

Hillary on Gay marriage in 2004:

&feature=youtu.be

Hillary open to raising the retirement age and reducing SS benefits: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/10/hillary-clinton-indicates-she-is-open-to-raising-the-retirement-age.html

Bernie has a MUCH better record of accomplishments as Senator than Hillary does: https://pplswar.wordpress.com/2015/10/21/fact-bernie-sanders-got-more-done-in-the-senate-than-hillary-clinton/

When you ask me to vote for Hillary: https://medium.com/@Lookingforrobyn/when-you-ask-me-to-vote-for-hillary-174becdb5ccc#.2ixs3cg5o

Hillary's legacy of pushing the party to the right: http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/33869-hillary-clinton-s-ghosts-a-legacy-of-pushing-the-democratic-party-to-the-right

Chomsky: Democrats are now moderate Republicans: http://trofire.com/2015/09/23/noam-chomsky-dems-are-now-moderate-repugs-republicans-are-now-off-the-spectrum-of-reality/

The political compass finds Bernie to be the most centrist candidate, Hillary falls into the right wing Authoritarian spectrum:: http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2016

Bernie rejects big fundraising events: http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/features/2015-03-26/bernie-sanders-hates-money-in-politics-the-very-thing-he-ll-need-to-beat-clinton

Elizabeth Warren on Hillary Clinton: https://www.facebook.com/shaunking/videos/986305904741661/

A comparison of bills put forth by Bernie and Hillary: http://giphy.com/gifs/clinton-vs-sanders-bills-passed-according-to-congressgov-3o6gaQaIZcGAW7hCfu

Hillary helps a bank, which then funnels millions to the Clintons: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/hillary-helps-a-bankand-then-it-pays-bill-15-million-in-speaking-fees/400067/

Under Sanders, incomes and jobs would soar: http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/08/news/economy/sanders-income-jobs/index.ht

Electing Bernie would usher a wave of "Bernie Democrats" into Congress: https://newrepublic.com/article/129047/bernies-army-running-congress

Bernie vows to stop disastrous TPP deal: http://ecowatch.com/2015/10/05/sanders-stop-tpp-deal/

Bernie's foreign policy positions are solid and through: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-foreign-poicy-213619

Hillary's foreign policy record is dismal: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-ritter/hillary-clinton-foreign-policy-record_b_9221284.html

Who could beat Trump? Bernie by a wide margin, while Hillary could lose against him: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/bernie-sanders-destroys-donald-trump-by-13-points-6-more-than-clinton-_b_8936840.html

Bernie Sanders would beat Donald Trump 51-38 in a general-election: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/poll-against-bernie-sanders-donald-trump-would-get-schlonged-20151223#ixzz3zvCwk44J

Poll shows that Hillary could easily lose to Trump in the General election: http://www.inquisitr.com/2667052/poll-shows-hillary-clinton-could-easily-lose-to-donald-trump-in-general-election/

Hillary's foreign policy record is a disaster: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-ritter/hillary-clinton-foreign-policy-record_b_9221284.html

Bernie's extensive foreign policy knowledge: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-foreign-poicy-213619

Need more details? http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-foreign-policy-and-national-security/bernie-sanders-on-foreign-policy/


Let's hear your rebuttals item by item. If you can't do that, then how will you handle what the GOP is going to throw at you?

[Carolina]

198. WOW! I said as much below, but love all your citations

She is part of Bill Clinton's legacy (the two for one, the 8 years of 'experience'): NAFTA, Telecommunications Bill of 1996, Welfare Reform (not), Three Strikes, overturning Glass-Steagall, etc. She and Bill kept Alan Greenspan at the Fed, placed the then Mr. Goldman Sucks himself Robert Reuben as head of Treasury and hired as financial advisor that abominable Wall Streeter Larry Summers (who lost a $billion from Harvard's endowment!). Those three and their brilliant ideas crashed the economy



And we, the people (the little people, lots of women and children), reaped the whirlwind of that 1999 Act which ended Glass-Steagall and for which every repuke in the Senate voted AYE while every Dem -- save one -- voted NAY. Bill signed it into law anyway, paying no heed to the canary-in-the-mine Dems who said that this dastardly new law would lead to disaster 10 years hence. Sure enough it did, harming women and families throughout the land. Meanwhile Wall Street, Hillary's BFF, continues to be such a benefactor for women!

In the Senate, what did she DO? What legislation or amendments to legislation illustrate her initiative or activism on behalf of women and children. The aye votes for IWR, the Patriot Act and Bush's Bankruptcy bill sure were a big help to us all!

Then there was her abysmal management and nasty conduct during the 2008 primary campaign. She had the money, she had the name, she was entitled, she was "in it to win it" and so arrogant that she claimed it would be over by Super Tuesday. But when it wasn't and she was losing, she resorted to the gutter. She praised McCain and derided Obama as someone who only gave pretty speeches. And when the Party urged her to bow out gracefully, she said that she was going to stay in the race through the CA primary because "you never know... remember Bobby Kennedy..." Her insinuation (a veiled wish?) that Obama might be assassinated like RFK was beyond classless and tasteless. It was evil (google Keith Olbermann on that atrocity). And when she finally, gracelessly bowed out, she did so on condition that the Obama organization and DNC pay off her campaign debt. Some management skills, just like her Wall Street benefactors who f--- things up, then expect others to pay for the disaster created.

As SOS, she was also terrible. Honduras, Libya and Syria are a mess. But HRC, the consummate pro-MIC corporatist, never saw a war she didn't like. And last I checked, war is not good for women, children or men!

Now in 2016, HRC is in kitchen sink mode. The surrogates have been unleashed. They have insulted young women for “going where the boys are” and damned all women who don’t support the anointed one. They are impugning the opponent’s integrity and record on Civil Rights and there is more and worse to come. This is 2008 redux with added shock and awe.

This is HRC's history. So, please tell me what she has DONE that is positive or constructive? What is this record she always harkens back to in her me, me, me, mine, mine, mine debate responses and that her supporters mimic? She's in it for herself, she plays sexist gender politics, she lies about her alleged record, she changes her mind with the political winds, she panders, she pads her pockets, and she is the worst sort of Democrat... a founder of the DLC and a triangulator to her core.

[treestar]

164. Insane really

and helps Bernie not one whit.

[Beacool]

172. I try to not take it personally.

I believe that in the end, Hillary will prevail and be the nominee. I still think that there's a greater probability that the Republicans will end up with Trump than the Democrats end up with Sanders as the nominee.

Of course, I could be wrong. Time will tell. Meantime, the drama and the most ridiculous of the posts about Hillary are only worthy of laughter and an eye roll.

Don't let these folks get to you.

[noiretextatique]

175. There is yet another "Bernie is racist" thread eom

[Califonz]

180. Bernie's supporters post a few basic facts about Hillary...

and her supporters think it's a vicious attack!

[Carolina]

199. Exactly

HST said: I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell.

Well here's the truth about Hillary and yes, it is hellish:

She is part of Bill Clinton's legacy (the two for one, the 8 years of 'experience'): NAFTA, Telecommunications Bill of 1996, Welfare Reform (not), Three Strikes, overturning Glass-Steagall, etc. She and Bill kept Alan Greenspan at the Fed, placed the then Mr. Goldman Sucks himself Robert Reuben as head of Treasury and hired as financial advisor that abominable Wall Streeter Larry Summers (who lost a $billion from Harvard's endowment!). Those three and their brilliant ideas crashed the economy



And we, the people (the little people, lots of women and children), reaped the whirlwind of that 1999 Act which ended Glass-Steagall and for which every repuke in the Senate voted AYE while every Dem -- save one -- voted NAY. Bill signed it into law anyway, paying no heed to the canary-in-the-mine Dems who said that this dastardly new law would lead to disaster 10 years hence. Sure enough it did, harming women and families throughout the land. Meanwhile Wall Street, Hillary's BFF, continues to be such a benefactor for women!

In the Senate, what did she DO? What legislation or amendments to legislation illustrate her initiative or activism on behalf of women and children. The aye votes for IWR, the Patriot Act and Bush's Bankruptcy bill sure were a big help to us all!

Then there was her abysmal management and nasty conduct during the 2008 primary campaign. She had the money, she had the name, she was entitled, she was "in it to win it" and so arrogant that she claimed it would be over by Super Tuesday. But when it wasn't and she was losing, she resorted to the gutter. She praised McCain and derided Obama as someone who only gave pretty speeches. And when the Party urged her to bow out gracefully, she said that she was going to stay in the race through the CA primary because "you never know... remember Bobby Kennedy..." Her insinuation (a veiled wish?) that Obama might be assassinated like RFK was beyond classless and tasteless. It was evil (google Keith Olbermann on that atrocity). And when she finally, gracelessly bowed out, she did so on condition that the Obama organization and DNC pay off her campaign debt. Some management skills, just like her Wall Street benefactors who f--- things up, then expect others to pay for the disaster created.

As SOS, she was also terrible. Honduras, Libya and Syria are a mess. But HRC, the consummate pro-MIC corporatist, never saw a war she didn't like. And last I checked, war is not good for women, children or men!

Now in 2016, HRC is in kitchen sink mode. The surrogates have been unleashed. They have insulted young women for “going where the boys are” and damned all women who don’t support the anointed one. They are impugning the opponent’s integrity and record on Civil Rights and there is more and worse to come. This is 2008 redux with added shock and awe.

This is HRC's history. So, please tell me what she has DONE that is positive or constructive? What is this record she always harkens back to in her me, me, me, mine, mine, mine debate responses and that her supporters mimic? She's in it for herself, she plays sexist gender politics, she lies about her alleged record, she changes her mind with the political winds, she panders, she pads her pockets, and she is the worst sort of Democrat... a founder of the DLC and a triangulator to her core.

Welcome to DU

[kydo]

181. Its pretty bad yet really sad.

Makes this forum look worse then the freeper place or that conservative cave/den/hole in the ground thing.

I will be glad when the primaries are done with. Hopefully we will be able to toss the dead weight and some how vote a dem to the White House.

The hate here is very disheartening.

[NurseJackie]

185. On the bright side ... those days will be coming to an end ... VERY SOON!!

As soon as it's mathematically clear that BERNIE WILL NOT BE THE NOMINEE (ie: in the few weeks following Super Tuesday) we'll know that Hillary will be the nominee! :-D

The attacks will end (either voluntarily or by forcibly being removed by the "bouncers&quot and we can all hug and be friends again.

[B Calm]

186. A lot of it started when Hillary supporters painted Bernie as a racist.

[Blue_In_AK]

191. There is nonsense and ridiculousness on both sides.

Hillary's supporters are hardly blameless.

[DesertRat]

192. Sometimes it's hard to believe

that this is a DEMOCRATIC website. I agree with you that these attacks are "off the rails of reality".

[RobertEarl]

200. This is meta

Just complaining and moaning and groaning.

You should delete this.

[Dawson Leery]

204. I no longer see a meaningful difference between the National Review and The Nation.

Both have gone overboard with their hatred of Hillary.

[Beacool]

219. When I pointed out that Hillary's character was the one that was being destroyed,

my message was hidden. I haven't had a hidden message in years.

This is supposedly a Democratic site. It is not democratic (with small "d&quot to censor posts at the rate that posts get censored here. What I wrote had no curse words or anything that was more offensive than what is posted here daily. I only questioned the gumption of Sanders' supporters to accuse Hillary's campaign of trying to damage his character when attempts to damage Hillary's character is all I see here day in and day out.