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Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:41 AM

There is now enough evidence to think that Bernie actually won the Iowa Caucus.

Too many vote-count irregularities. Too many "transpositions" of odd-numbered delegations, always in Hillary's favor... for example, taking a 5-4 delegation for Bernie, and having it entered in as a 5-4 for Hillary. "Oopsie!" How cute. Vote fraud doesn't have to involve obviously evil bad guys stuffing ballots in back rooms. It can easily be some low-level apparatchik dishonestly typing in the wrong numbers. It only takes a second. The deed is done so quickly, it hardly seems like vote fraud at all...

Obviously, this is just my opinion about who really won. But I think everyone would agree, a full investigation is now required.

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Reply There is now enough evidence to think that Bernie actually won the Iowa Caucus. (Original post)
reformist2 Feb 2016 OP
DanTex Feb 2016 #1
reformist2 Feb 2016 #2
DanTex Feb 2016 #3
2pooped2pop Feb 2016 #6
DanTex Feb 2016 #8
2pooped2pop Feb 2016 #9
DanTex Feb 2016 #31
2pooped2pop Feb 2016 #32
DanTex Feb 2016 #36
SCantiGOP Feb 2016 #41
MrChuck Feb 2016 #90
DanTex Feb 2016 #96
MrChuck Feb 2016 #103
DanTex Feb 2016 #115
MrChuck Feb 2016 #124
DanTex Feb 2016 #130
Matt_R Feb 2016 #196
Mbrow Feb 2016 #134
Plucketeer Feb 2016 #110
treestar Feb 2016 #203
libdem4life Feb 2016 #156
totodeinhere Feb 2016 #172
rhett o rick Feb 2016 #211
TheBlackAdder Feb 2016 #54
Bubzer Feb 2016 #94
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2016 #190
Bubzer Feb 2016 #191
bkkyosemite Feb 2016 #46
CentralMass Feb 2016 #56
greiner3 Feb 2016 #141
Bohemianwriter Feb 2016 #214
Betty Karlson Feb 2016 #121
NowSam Feb 2016 #18
A Simple Game Feb 2016 #35
libdem4life Feb 2016 #178
notadmblnd Feb 2016 #60
NowSam Feb 2016 #70
frylock Feb 2016 #137
notadmblnd Feb 2016 #152
Cary Feb 2016 #199
NowSam Feb 2016 #200
Cary Feb 2016 #206
NowSam Feb 2016 #207
Matariki Feb 2016 #201
CoffeeCat Feb 2016 #55
DanTex Feb 2016 #61
CoffeeCat Feb 2016 #68
MrMickeysMom Feb 2016 #101
senz Feb 2016 #170
treestar Feb 2016 #204
MrMickeysMom Feb 2016 #205
Perogie Feb 2016 #84
kath Feb 2016 #111
Thor_MN Feb 2016 #126
OhZone Feb 2016 #69
senz Feb 2016 #174
ljm2002 Feb 2016 #81
Android3.14 Feb 2016 #82
cannabis_flower Feb 2016 #83
TryLogic Feb 2016 #100
Chasstev365 Feb 2016 #114
zeemike Feb 2016 #127
DanTex Feb 2016 #131
zeemike Feb 2016 #135
mindwalker_i Feb 2016 #192
Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #213
frylock Feb 2016 #133
DanTex Feb 2016 #140
frylock Feb 2016 #144
DanTex Feb 2016 #158
frylock Feb 2016 #162
DanTex Feb 2016 #163
frylock Feb 2016 #168
Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #212
newthinking Feb 2016 #138
malokvale77 Feb 2016 #186
2pooped2pop Feb 2016 #4
kristopher Feb 2016 #13
peacebird Feb 2016 #27
2pooped2pop Feb 2016 #28
chervilant Feb 2016 #34
2pooped2pop Feb 2016 #38
FlatBaroque Feb 2016 #80
malokvale77 Feb 2016 #188
FlatBaroque Feb 2016 #189
SoapBox Feb 2016 #125
CharlotteVale Feb 2016 #5
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #7
2pooped2pop Feb 2016 #10
KittyWampus Feb 2016 #11
2pooped2pop Feb 2016 #16
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #202
Gene Debs Feb 2016 #53
zalinda Feb 2016 #77
Rilesome Feb 2016 #184
Mnpaul Feb 2016 #208
A Simple Game Feb 2016 #39
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #43
ornotna Feb 2016 #58
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #62
ornotna Feb 2016 #64
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #66
ornotna Feb 2016 #75
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #76
ornotna Feb 2016 #78
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #79
libdem4life Feb 2016 #171
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #173
libdem4life Feb 2016 #176
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #177
libdem4life Feb 2016 #179
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #180
libdem4life Feb 2016 #181
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #183
libdem4life Feb 2016 #185
Perogie Feb 2016 #86
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #87
Perogie Feb 2016 #88
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #89
JoeyT Feb 2016 #104
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #105
JoeyT Feb 2016 #118
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #120
INdemo Feb 2016 #42
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #45
bkkyosemite Feb 2016 #49
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #51
reformist2 Feb 2016 #92
AlbertCat Feb 2016 #145
bkkyosemite Feb 2016 #195
INdemo Feb 2016 #73
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #74
reformist2 Feb 2016 #95
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #97
reformist2 Feb 2016 #98
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #102
frylock Feb 2016 #143
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #146
frylock Feb 2016 #148
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #149
frylock Feb 2016 #155
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #159
greiner3 Feb 2016 #164
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #169
INdemo Feb 2016 #132
frylock Feb 2016 #139
stillwaiting Feb 2016 #12
scottie55 Feb 2016 #40
randome Feb 2016 #14
2pooped2pop Feb 2016 #17
reformist2 Feb 2016 #23
mythology Feb 2016 #72
gyroscope Feb 2016 #15
2pooped2pop Feb 2016 #19
restorefreedom Feb 2016 #21
gyroscope Feb 2016 #22
restorefreedom Feb 2016 #24
Yurovsky Feb 2016 #26
Old Codger Feb 2016 #99
restorefreedom Feb 2016 #20
in_cog_ni_to Feb 2016 #25
scottie55 Feb 2016 #47
MissDeeds Feb 2016 #93
Metric System Feb 2016 #29
chervilant Feb 2016 #37
DamnYankeeInHouston Feb 2016 #44
chervilant Feb 2016 #48
Metric System Feb 2016 #52
Post removed Feb 2016 #147
Metric System Feb 2016 #153
frylock Feb 2016 #157
Metric System Feb 2016 #161
frylock Feb 2016 #165
bkkyosemite Feb 2016 #50
INdemo Feb 2016 #30
mdbl Feb 2016 #33
in_cog_ni_to Feb 2016 #57
restorefreedom Feb 2016 #59
Moral Compass Feb 2016 #63
2pooped2pop Feb 2016 #85
SammyWinstonJack Feb 2016 #142
pokhum Feb 2016 #65
ecstatic Feb 2016 #67
frylock Feb 2016 #151
lumberjack_jeff Feb 2016 #71
Blue State Bandit Feb 2016 #91
HassleCat Feb 2016 #106
Motown_Johnny Feb 2016 #107
jeff47 Feb 2016 #175
Motown_Johnny Feb 2016 #197
madokie Feb 2016 #108
Enthusiast Feb 2016 #109
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #113
Cal33 Feb 2016 #122
wyldwolf Feb 2016 #123
Enthusiast Feb 2016 #129
TryLogic Feb 2016 #112
basselope Feb 2016 #116
cantbeserious Feb 2016 #117
Helen Borg Feb 2016 #119
SidDithers Feb 2016 #128
polichick Feb 2016 #136
greymattermom Feb 2016 #150
Not Sure Feb 2016 #154
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2016 #160
21st Century Poet Feb 2016 #166
litlbilly Feb 2016 #167
dchill Feb 2016 #182
kjones Feb 2016 #187
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kjones Feb 2016 #210
Odin2005 Feb 2016 #193
TeddyR Feb 2016 #194
Motown_Johnny Feb 2016 #198
jwirr Feb 2016 #216
jwirr Feb 2016 #215
progree Feb 2016 #217

Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:42 AM

1. And also that the moon landing was faked. Don't leave that one out.

 

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Response to DanTex (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:46 AM

2. Don't be so proud to think that vote fraud doesn't happen in America. Or that only Repugs do it.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:47 AM

3. It was probably the same people that faked the moon landing who rigged the Iowa caucus.

 

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Response to DanTex (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:49 AM

6. Yes because the elections are never rigged are they?

 

I don't believe you could be po!itically engaged and believe that

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:51 AM

8. I guess maybe Bernie rigged it and came up a little short, but it seems like a stretch. Maybe

 

it wasn't the moon landing people after all -- he went with the B team.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #8)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:59 AM

9. Hmmm so he rigged it so he would lose votes to Clinton?

 

You are getting a bit silly in your desperation to ignore the truth. I'm betting this is going to get bigger and the people will be pretty mad about it.

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:21 AM

31. Well, nobody accuses Bernie of being able to actually accomplish things....

 

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Response to DanTex (Reply #31)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:25 AM

32. Again silly response. We should probably just stop here.

 

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #32)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:28 AM

36. Well, the entire discussion about Iowa being rigged is silly.

 

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Response to DanTex (Reply #36)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:31 AM

41. Donald Trump believes it

N/T, just

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Response to DanTex (Reply #36)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:24 PM

90. We don't believe Iowa was rigged.

I don't even believe that the former Secretary issued any directive to cheat.
The caucus was a nightmare with tiny venues and inexperienced precinct captains and a few overzealous Hillarians slipping quickly into desperation mode.
It's not difficult to see how some low level chicanery coupled with some rookie mistakes could have produced these results.
It's like the Senator said though, not the biggest deal in the world. So, she lost. Suck it up buttercup. What about your firewall?

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Response to MrChuck (Reply #90)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:28 PM

96. Yeah, I'm sure there were rookie mistakes in such a chaotic system.

 

And, like the coin tosses, I'm sure some benefited one side and some the other. In the end, Hillary won, and the conspiracy theories do nothing but make Bernie supporters look bad. So please proceed.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #96)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:34 PM

103. Come on Dan...

I'm not an enemy. You know I'll vote for Hilldawg if she's the nominee.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I've read enough books to know that human nature is such tha desperation can affect judgement. That's all.
In all actuality, in light of the post-caucus developments, I don't think it's quite fair to say "in the end, she won"
Clearly, we're not at the end.

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Response to MrChuck (Reply #103)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:48 PM

115. Lots of books on human nature, huh? Did those books only apply to people caucusing for Hillary?

 

Was there a special section on "Hillary supporters only"? Fascinating!

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Response to DanTex (Reply #115)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:02 PM

124. I'm going to ignore the fact that you have twisted my words regarding the books that I've read

and ask if you've heard or seen any accusations that Sanders supporters engaged in anything shady.

Take your time googling, I'm sure you'll come up with something if you look hard enough.

In the meantime try not to drown in the tidal wave of speculation as to why the Clinton machine might feel it more important to check one in the W column leading up to NH.

Without speculating let's just call it like we all see it.

Hillary has massive lead. Hillary loses massive lead. All the little Democrats that already printed up their "Hillary Wins!" T-Shirts see trouble on the horizon.

That's as far as I need to go. The Sanders campaign and his supporters have been busy motivating voters and trading on his message of enough is enough and what they've had enough of is business as usual in politics.

Hillary has embraced the business as usual trope in her support of incrementalism. She is opposed to radical change because it upsets the comfortable groove we've worn in the floor, walking back and forth between the aisles.

Like I said Dan, I'll vote Democrat in November because I know that Hillary would have been my choice if a better option hadn't come along. Until she's the nominee though I'm going with the better option.

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Response to MrChuck (Reply #124)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:10 PM

130. Well, I saw one video of an enraged Bernie supporter trying to bully the guy running a caucus.

 

But, unlike what seems to be the national sport of BernieLand, I'm not interested in pursuing election conspiracy theories. Like the coin tosses that Bernie supporters were absolutely furious about a couple days ago, I'm confident that the mistakes, which I'm sure there were plenty, went about equally one way and the other.

There have been so many conspiracy theories comping from Bernie people on reddit this campaign, that even you have to admit that there's a certain Boy Who Cried Wolf effect taking place. Remember how all those unions had been infiltrated, and the polls had been intentionally skewed, and media execs instructed reporters and pundits to be biased against Bernie because of whatever reason, and that Paul Krugman and others writing things not sufficiently pro-Bernie were angling for a cabinet position?

Oh, and one more thing. Winning Iowa was equally important to both sides. That's because the primaries are a zero-sum game. In a sense, Bernie "needed" a win more because it was a very friendly demographic. Hillary's ahead nationally, she can afford to run out the clock, Bernie needs to create some motion. But since Bernie's loss is Hillary's gain, and vice versa (in the primary race), then both sides would be equally motivated to cheat.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #130)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 04:08 PM

196. I recall reading it was a 45 Minute holdup of the vote. n/t

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Response to DanTex (Reply #115)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:16 PM

134. DanTex believe me when I say

That caucus can be quite pain full. My wife and I were heavy in to the BHO election the first time, It was great we had over a thousand people show when we normally get a hundred. We collected email address from young people who were eager to get involved. The address were never saved, the state Dems won't let us have access so we could get volunteers for the midterms, our local chair would not let the captains have the info and threw it out rather then let us build something good. so when someone tells me that was some BS going on, I tend to believe it because I've been there when we put BHO in office.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #96)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:43 PM

110. I'd like to think your attitude isn't prevalent among our populace

 

but I tend to think it is. And THAT'S what's scary. : C;mon now - it is what it is so move on.

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Response to MrChuck (Reply #90)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 05:47 PM

203. Why would anybody be "desperate"?

There are 49 states left and many of them a larger.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #36)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:32 PM

156. That's probably why it's major newspaper came out and pretty much said the same thing.

 

Nothing to see here. Not.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #36)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:47 PM

172. It's only silly if you are in the tank for Clinton no matter what.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #36)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 01:44 AM

211. Why is it silly? We know of some irregularities. And we know that the Oligarchy that you

 

appear to stand behind have rigged votes before. And your side has unlimited money. The wealthy rich don't like to lose and are willing to do what it takes.

We want the existing culture of corruption by big money to end.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #31)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:43 AM

54. Sometimes, it's best to try and not force the last word when one is flailing.

.

Of course, you'll try and force the last word with this comment, making it even more ironic.

.

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:27 PM

94. You can't be...not in the day and age. DanTex knows better... but is being disingenous.

It's really the primary trait I associate with hillary supporters this election season: intellectual dishonesty.
You're absolutely right... you cannot be politically active and reasonably discount election fraud.

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Response to Bubzer (Reply #94)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 02:42 PM

190. Disingenuous... I call it flailing. I think they've seen the writing on the wall.

 

Can you just imagine the PMs going back and forth between Hillary supporters? Goodness me.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #190)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 02:52 PM

191. Honestly, I'd rather not. I already have a low opinon of a number of her supporters...

I'd rather not make it any lower. That and I actually respect a number of her supporters... I'd hate to think they might be involved in any of that.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:36 AM

46. It was probably the driver with the HRC license plate on her car.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:21 PM

141. OJ Simpson

 

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Response to DanTex (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 10:22 AM

214. Got any better strawmen?

 

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:55 PM

121. Debbie has lots of Republican friends. Maybe they sent her a how-to-rig-elections book.

 

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Response to DanTex (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:08 AM

18. To equate someone who questions the vote integrity to a conspiracy nut

Is something else. Do you think there was no foul play in Florida 2000? In Ohio 2004? Do you also equate the Des moines Register with conspiracy types who think the moon landing was fake? They supported your candidate but are publishing stories about how something smells in the Iowa results and are also calling for an audit which is being stopped by a woman in power who;s plates on her car read HRC 2016.

To call someone who is reasonably calling for certainty in elections a conspiracy nut only furthers the perception is very...Republican and bullyish - in my opinion.

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Response to NowSam (Reply #18)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:28 AM

35. The Desmoines Register realizes what is at stake for Iowa.

Probably 90% of the people in the Country question why two of the smallest States have so much say in our Presidential elections. Add the fact that Iowa can't seem to get it right, at least two times in a row, and it wouldn't take much to get a ground swell started to get some changes made in the primary system.

Can you imagine the affect of Iowa going from first in the nation to say fortieth? Lost are all the millions spent by the candidates, their staff, and the media. Potentially more devastating could be the loss of the ethanol subsidies when politicians don't have to suck up to Iowa anymore especially when oil is now so cheap.

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Response to A Simple Game (Reply #35)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 02:02 PM

178. I think that, as well. It should be a state without weather issues, sizeable enough to warrant the

 

kind of spending required and somewhat in the mainstream. I believe it is a discussion that may come up, as it should.

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Response to NowSam (Reply #18)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:47 AM

60. You're not going to get any serious answers from that poster

I tend to be a smart ass too, but occasionally I do provide material that is actually worth reading. That guy- not so much.

He's just here to annoy and attempt to rile people up so he can alert and get them banned. Don't take his silly bait. Just put him on ignore.

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Response to notadmblnd (Reply #60)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:56 AM

70. Thanks.

It really is silly season, isn't it? Reminds me very much of 2000. Up was down, inside was out and it started long before the Flordia theft of the election. It is theater of the absurd.

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Response to notadmblnd (Reply #60)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:18 PM

137. That poster knows the writing is on the wall.

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Response to frylock (Reply #137)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:31 PM

152. Have you ever heard a person who has just died- last breath come out of them?

It's sort of a strange sound. Slow and drawn out, high pitched- like it sounds when you pull on the neck of a balloon and let the air out?

I think it's gonna be a lot like that.

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Response to NowSam (Reply #18)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 04:46 PM

199. Making stuff up without real evidence. ..

Is making stuff up without real evidence.

Such people are liabilities.

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Response to Cary (Reply #199)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 04:54 PM

200. We just want a fair election

Those who blindly accept anything else are liabilities to a free society.

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Response to NowSam (Reply #200)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 08:11 PM

206. Smearing people is fair?

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Response to Cary (Reply #206)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 08:14 PM

207. Andi McGuire releasing the actual votes

would be fair. Allowing the audit to move forward would be fair.

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Response to NowSam (Reply #18)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 04:58 PM

201. Thank you.

Apart from this particular issue, which at the very most would only result in a tiny change, what really matters is that there must be NO DOUBT in the veracity of our election results.

When voting integrity comes into question it undermines our whole democracy.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:43 AM

55. I live in Iowa and we are dealing with these discrepancies

There have been four that have been reported by the media.

What is happening is this: The Iowa Democratic Party has all precinct caucus results on their website at this location:
http://iowademocrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/2016-IDP-Final-Precinct-Caucus-Results-PrecinctCandidateResults1.pdf

Bernie precinct captains and precinct chairs are looking at those numbers.

Thus far, 4 people have come forward to say that the numbers were reported incorrectly. Clinton was given one delegate that she didn't earn. Bernie had one taken away. All errors found have favored Clinton.

As much as you want to turn this into a sparkly, unicorn fairy tale--you are dead wrong.

Nice spin. But your spin is revealed for the bullshit that it is, when you know the facts. You need to come to Iowa and be involved with the reality is unfolding here.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

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Response to CoffeeCat (Reply #55)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:48 AM

61. I think it's great. Conspiracy theories about Iowa do nothing but make Bernie supporters appear out

 

to lunch. Same goes for Donald Trump.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #61)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:55 AM

68. You're hilarious!

The entire Editorial Board of the Des Moines Register has called for the Iowa Democratic Party to examine the caucus results.

Are all members of the Des Moines Register part of some concerted effort to perpetuate "conspiracy theories" as you said?

Do I have to remind you that this same Editorial Board has endorsed Hillary Clinton twice for President.

Oh boy! I've seen some disconnects with reality in my days, but your assertions have to take the cake.





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Response to CoffeeCat (Reply #68)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:32 PM

101. He's a frustrated and angry poster...

He could do a re-count on his logic, but it doesn't go along with the ends justifying the means. Good thing he's not in office.

Maybe he should run. He'd find out a thing or two. Meanwhile, I'm sure he's dialing for hollers on the alert baiting thing.

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Response to MrMickeysMom (Reply #101)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:44 PM

170. Exactly.

 

I was treated to a go-round the other day. By the end it felt like something was seriously wrong. I see tons more bullying from one side than the other.

Maybe it goes with the territory.

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Response to MrMickeysMom (Reply #101)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 05:48 PM

204. You mean Dan Tex? He never comes across as angry at all.

Mere ad hominem does not become us.

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Response to treestar (Reply #204)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 05:50 PM

205. It doesn't become him, either...

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Response to DanTex (Reply #61)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:14 PM

84. I guess that's all you got left now that Hillary is shown to be vulnerable.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #61)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:45 PM

111. You're really embarrassing yourself.

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Response to CoffeeCat (Reply #55)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:03 PM

126. "All errors found have favored Clinton."

 

Winners don't generally seek to question the results...

The results were certainly close enough to take another look, but touting that all errors favored the winner is most likely due to not looking for errors that favored the loser at this point. There's plenty of time, do as much of a recount as can be done and we will see where the chips fall.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:55 AM

69. Haha - moon landing.

Good one. I knew some of the Sanders people will end up as conspiracy nuts. I wonder if some will be subscribing to Alex Jones and Dan Bidondi and screaming that Hillary can't take their guns?

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Response to OhZone (Reply #69)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:54 PM

174. My goodness.

 

How people change.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:13 PM

81. Please direct us to the Des Moines Register article...

...outlining the reasons why they think the moon landing was faked.

Here is what they had to say about this year's Democratic caucuses:

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/opinion/editorials/caucus/2016/02/03/editorial-something-smells-democratic-party/79777580/

Editorial: Something smells in the Democratic Party

(...)

What happened Monday night at the Democratic caucuses was a debacle, period. Democracy, particularly at the local party level, can be slow, messy and obscure. But the refusal to undergo scrutiny or allow for an appeal reeks of autocracy.

The Iowa Democratic Party must act quickly to assure the accuracy of the caucus results, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

First of all, the results were too close not to do a complete audit of results. Two-tenths of 1 percent separated Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton. A caucus should not be confused with an election, but it’s worth noting that much larger margins trigger automatic recounts in other states.

Second, too many questions have been raised. Too many accounts have arisen of inconsistent counts, untrained and overwhelmed volunteers, confused voters, cramped precinct locations, a lack of voter registration forms and other problems. Too many of us, including members of the Register editorial board who were observing caucuses, saw opportunities for error amid Monday night’s chaos.


Waiting...

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Response to DanTex (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:14 PM

82. Ya know, I like that you compare Bernie's accomplishment to the Space Race

 

We won that one too.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:14 PM

83. Ah, that was a knee jerk reply. Lots of snark, you think?

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Response to DanTex (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:31 PM

100. This is way down line from the original DanTex cute-ism, but it sure seems that his

comments are silly, unproductive, not helpful, and distracting.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:48 PM

114. Your An Idiot!

 

Do you really think its statistically possible that every possible irregularity always went Hillary's way?

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Response to DanTex (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:04 PM

127. We need a technical term for what you did here.

Because it is widely used to shut people up when they say something you don't like to acknowledge. Because fear of ridicule works for some people.
Downlow would be a good one, because you use the lowest thing you can think of and compare it with what is being talked about to shut people up...but I know that term is used already in another way.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #127)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:12 PM

131. I believe the term is "joking."

 

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Response to DanTex (Reply #131)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:17 PM

135. No that is the excuse when confronted

With the reality of it.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #131)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 02:55 PM

192. Sleazy reply

"Joking" is when you get called out on your BS.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #127)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 03:17 AM

213. It's a good question- as in, which SPECIFIC glaring logical fallacy would that fall under.

It has a distinctive whiff of red herring to my nose, but I would say you could argue that it is a sweeping or hasty generalization as well.

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/

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Response to DanTex (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:15 PM

133. Do have an inkling as to how bad this is going to make you look?

Any idea whatsoever?

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Response to frylock (Reply #133)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:21 PM

140. My #1 concern: what Bernie fans on the internet think of me!

 

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Response to DanTex (Reply #140)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:24 PM

144. You're a rather prolific poster. I think you do care, Dan.

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Response to frylock (Reply #144)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:32 PM

158. Mindreading!

 

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Response to DanTex (Reply #158)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:37 PM

162. You post multiple times per day (often the same message) on a board dominated by Sanders supporters.

What other conclusion is there to draw, Dan?

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Response to frylock (Reply #162)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:38 PM

163. Umm.. that it's fun? Why do you do it?

 

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Response to DanTex (Reply #163)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:43 PM

168. It is a lot of fun.

Watching people compromise core principles in support of a flawed candidate is fascinating to me.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #140)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 03:16 AM

212. BernieBRO is the proper nomenclature, dude.

You know this.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:19 PM

138. Oh yes, we know this technique

"Conspiracies" in elections is not exactly an unusual thing. I mean look at what the Republicans have coordinated (voter supression) for years.

Personally I don't see this as a conspiracy as much as difference in ethics. One of the problems with the current establishment in our party is they have more "ends justify the means" thinking. It seemed obvious to me from some of the "shenanigans" that went on that they are more willing to "game" the system.

Like this:

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/1478435

Feb 01, 2016 8:08pm PST by Henry Whitworth
Comment_large84
215

My wife and I stood for Bernie Sanders in Iowa tonight. We are in a fairly large precinct; nearly 600 people in the room with 11 delegates to assign. Hillary claimed 6 while we pulled in 5 for Bernie.

We brought our daughters with us this year and my eldest who is 11 wanted to be involved. She got to see “Bawack" when she was three and she's always known how much that campaign meant to me. She and her friends talk politics a surprising amount for 6th graders, but this is Iowa in a caucus year!

We were in a large cafeteria and after first count (and countless speeches) only Hillary and Bernie were viable with around 65 people in the middle as uncommitted. So my daughter joined me in wading into the group and trying to convince people to come over for Bernie. She’s a shy kid and it was really something to see how this affected her. She really wanted a piece of it. She also pushed me to go up and give a speech but the few of us who stepped up into leadership roles for the Bernie camp decided to cut the speeches short because we felt like the longer process would be likely to send more undecided out the door which was plainly what the Hillary camp was trying to encourage. Instead I started handing strips of Bernie stickers to anyone who seemed like they wanted to get into the mix, told them to just look people in the eye and get that sticker on em.

It was about 20 minutes of the funniest, sweatiest politicking you’ll ever see and we convinced the bulk of them to come over. It may have been a 7-4 split without that flurry at the end so it felt really good to bring em home. And the experience for my daughter was dynamite. The main theme, of course, was fear. They felt like they should support Hillary because Trump. bleh. Any time I got them talking about that we wound up getting them to come in. And when they’d say “ok,” my daughter would give them a sticker and I’d pump my hands in the air and get a cheer out of the Bernie side. No going back after that! Then it was all smiles and welcome aboard. Love doing that.

It wasn’t all sunshine and roses unfortunately. We were flying by the seat of our pants with a lot of people who had never caucused before. Hillary’s people came in not just organized but with a handful of parliamentary tricks to play from the start. One of their leaders began the night by claiming to be a strangely enthusiastic and outspoken “undeclared” who felt like there should be a delegate who just supports whomever is the nominee and he claimed leadership of that group and said they were going to try to become viable. Right away I said, “That dude is with Hillary.” And that was rough for me. The caucus usually feels really good. People holding each other by the sleeve and making an impassioned last minute plea for why your candidate is the best. And here’s a bald face liar taking a leadership role purely for the purpose of culling these people out of the process. They had also stacked the O’Malley camp at the beginning in case they could make him viable which was plain after first count as they just got up and joined their team that they'd been Hillary supporters all along. I can't tell you how that stuff makes me feel. And I feel like it comes from the top of the campaign. Leaders lead and that’s where some of my neighbors follow. And yes, as soon as the persuading started the lead “undeclared” guy who tried to lead them just walked over and joined his team.

So I had a great experience in some ways, especially doing this with my daughter but I left hot under the collar and a little queasy as well. The speech giving liar who took leadership of the undeclareds was wearing an Obama shirt of all things. This definitely added to my aggravation. I was there working with a handful of people who had helped us win this precinct for Obama in '08 with NONE of the cheap tricks they were pulling. I felt he had no right to take the mantle of Obama while behaving in a way we wouldn’t have touched in that campaign. Bring as many in as you can and make your appeals.

I’m going to stop now. My energy has been running too high leading up to this and it’s time to cool out.



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Response to DanTex (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 02:25 PM

186. Weak analogy. nt

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:47 AM

4. And of course Hillary knew nothing about it

 

But the look on the faces of Hillary, Bill, and Chelsea during her victory /non victory speech before they high tailed it out of town and refused to respond to questions, perhaps suggests otherwise.

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:02 AM

13. +1. It certainly created that impression. nt

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:17 AM

27. Yes.

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Response to peacebird (Reply #27)


Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:27 AM

34. She probably

"knows nothing" about the push polls, either...

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Response to chervilant (Reply #34)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:29 AM

38. Exactly

 

She certainly makes sure it can't be proven but we know and this may grow.

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:09 PM

80. The one thing that the Clinton's learn well

is never to leave their fingerprints on anything. Just like the server issue, it was obviously under her authority but underlings will pay the price. That is the cost of being associated with a Clinton.

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Response to FlatBaroque (Reply #80)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 02:38 PM

188. I'm fascinated by the number of people so willing...

to throw away their own credibility and/or fall on the sword for Hillary.

It would make for a great Phys-Ops study.

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Response to malokvale77 (Reply #188)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 02:41 PM

189. I have often wondered about the same thing

they throw away their credibility on behalf of a person with such questionable ethics

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:02 PM

125. Of course she didn't personally coordinate irregularities (I guess)...

BUT the "fix" was so in (with persons that are dedicated, die-hard Hill devotees, that will do anything) in many regions of the state...that it wouldn't come as any surprise that there could have been a few number changes. How many reports and videos of not only things in Iowa but Democratic offices around the country that have only Hill promotional materials and/or won't allow Bernie materials...thank you DWS for making it crystal clear the favored candidate.

All I want is honest and truthful voting results...in any vote, at any time. But it seems that our systems are so vile and corrupt that getting accurate vote counts seems almost impossible. HOPEFULLY, shining a brilliant light on Iowa will put other states on notice about keeping it honest.

This is another reason it's time for that Political Revolution in America...on all levels of Federal, State and Local governments. It's time for honesty and delivering what the citizen voters actually want.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:49 AM

5. I share your opinion.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:50 AM

7. Isn't it funny how Bernie followers are acting just as they said Clinton supporters would?

in a close race?

LOL.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:01 AM

10. Looks like its not gonna be a two tenths close

 

But a much wider margin with obvious cheating going on. But you go ahead and cling to that two tenths.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:01 AM

11. Who won the pool on how soon it'd take this to become voter fraud if it went to Clinton?

 

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #11)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:06 AM

16. First you should know more about what you are talking about. It's election fraud. Not voter fraud.

 

Look it up to learn the difference.

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 05:22 PM

202. THANK YOU! it is often a sign of Republicanism to cite voter fraud.

They do so often and without proof in order to disenfranchise voters with hurdles they put in place to keep people from voting, claiming the dead vote, unregistered ppl vote or that ppl vote multiple times when in truth such has not been known to happen more times than can be counted on one hand over the course of several elections dating back decades. It does not surprise me that a member here would cite voter fraud as it has become apparent that a great many right wingers have joined the last few years, I do not doubt they are Democrats (well maybe a little) but they are right wing no matter how they register and they have brought their lingo, tactics, and bad taste with them.

Election fraud on the other hand has been proven in places like Florida and demonstrated repeatedly by showing how easy and fast it is to switch votes in a machine or at the tally software location (too easy to believe coincidentally easy) hacking leaving no trace.

All known election fraud that has happened at caucus type venues (luckily such is rare) has been done by switching tallies in the office, after the fact, the same activities that have been described by multiple sources across the internet.

Another distinctive indicator of election fraud is that the person in charge of deciding if there is to be an audit or recount is a staunch ally of the person the fraud favors, perhaps sporting a licence plate HRC 2016 and this person in power over the results acts in a peculiar way in the face of multiple discrepancies during such a close race, such as calling it early and final while refusing an audit or recount, it is all so reminiscent of Harris in Florida in 2000.

Unfortunately, if the usual pattern of election fraud remains consistent the fraud will be left to stand, the person in power that likely enabled it rewarded, and all attempts to get a deserved audit would have to come from the court (in other words, the perpetrators will not budge, period, unless forced to)

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #11)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:42 AM

53. It wouldn't be fraud unless there were actual credible reason to believe that fraud of some kind

 

had actually occurred, which does appear to be the case. Who won the pool on how easily you'd dismiss any reports of irregularities as long as clinton were left the "winner"? would you be so blase about it if Sanders had won under equally suspicious circumstances? I suspect not. Bottom line is, there's credible evidence that irregularities happened. That should trouble you no matter who it went to.

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Response to Gene Debs (Reply #53)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:04 PM

77. You are wrong.

Bernie supporters are very avid 'every vote counts, and count every vote'. We just want the truth. Even if Bernie lost more delegates it would be fine, as long as it was the truth. We don't want to win, just to win. We want honesty, which is one of the reasons we are attracted to Bernie.

Z

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Response to zalinda (Reply #77)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 02:18 PM

184. Truth

Not a term embraced by many in our system anymore.

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Response to zalinda (Reply #77)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 08:30 PM

208. Counting every vote

gave us Al Franken. Not counting every vote gave us George Bush.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:30 AM

39. Isn't it funny how a 60 point lead became a close race? n/t

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Response to A Simple Game (Reply #39)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:32 AM

43. Which leads me back to my point. Bernie followers are acting as they said Clinton supporters would..

... in a close race.

Sore losers. LOL.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #43)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:47 AM

58. You keep saying

"Bernie followers" but Clinton has "supporters" as if we're nothing more than a cult. Why is that?

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Response to ornotna (Reply #58)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:48 AM

62. Does that bother you?

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #62)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:53 AM

64. It was a simple question

Does it bother you to answer? I'll tell you one thing, it won't change who I "support".

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Response to ornotna (Reply #64)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:54 AM

66. It DOES bother you. Good.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #66)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:01 PM

75. That's what makes you happy?

The idea that I may be upset. How sad is that.

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Response to ornotna (Reply #75)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:01 PM

76. one of many things

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #76)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:05 PM

78. Speaks volumes to your character

You've answered my question after all, thanks.

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Response to ornotna (Reply #78)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:07 PM

79. "speaks volumes" - such an overused 'progressive' rhetorical crutch

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #79)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:46 PM

171. Progressive rhetorical crutch? What a crock. How about "Bernie can't win"? I'd also call that an

 

Rhetorical Crutch. But it's now no longer credible....tied nationally and all.

Here's another one... Grasping at straws ... probably even more to the point.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #171)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:52 PM

173. typical 'progressive' schtick

"speaks volumes"
"no longer credible"

goes with the poutrage.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #173)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:57 PM

176. grasping at straws...all of these were crafted way before Progressive was Cool. Goes with the

 

current situation, which is coincidentally applicable...as it is shifting. But the phrases are used in all kinds of contexts.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #176)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:58 PM

177. I guess this is the point where you start blathering about oligarchy

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #177)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 02:05 PM

179. Yes, you would be correct about one of the above, and it does start with an "O". But "blathering",

 

is a smear and an insult...but then you knew that. Sorry so many have so little to say that they have been reduced to language shaming.

But carry on. It's expected...and I rather enjoy it, really.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #179)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 02:06 PM

180. Of course I'm correct.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #180)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 02:15 PM

181. Of course, dear, you're always correct. Really.

 

Did I do good?

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #181)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 02:17 PM

183. you did. thanks!

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #183)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 02:23 PM

185. Carry on. I'm sure there is another Important Thread to which you can add meaning with one liners

 

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #66)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:17 PM

86. you've fallen pretty far if you have to get your kicks from teasing people.

I guess you're seeing the writing on the wall and the lose of your candidate. Now you just lash out cause that's all you got.

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Response to Perogie (Reply #86)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:19 PM

87. At a post count of 216 (and the fact I essentially took 6 weeks off from DU while traveling)

How could you possibly know anything about me... unless...

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #87)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:21 PM

88. Oh, then I guess you've always been that low. Sorry my mistake to assume you were once better.

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Response to Perogie (Reply #88)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:22 PM

89. thanks to a DU PM, my suspicions confirmed.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #66)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:34 PM

104. With followers like you, I can't imagine how Clinton could lose.

Once y'all go out shouting "PRAISE HILLARY! DO NOT QUESTION HER MAJESTY! IT'S HER TURN!" I'm sure the independents will absolutely fall over themselves to elect her.

Or she'll lose to a Republican because everyone that doesn't worship her hates her guts.

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Response to JoeyT (Reply #104)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:35 PM

105. Now that's the hive collective mentality I'm used to.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #105)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:49 PM

118. Yeah, everyone that thinks for themselves does what they're told and supports Hillary.

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Response to JoeyT (Reply #118)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:52 PM

120. You're back on track! The Hive Collective Dispatch reach you today at last

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:32 AM

42. What is wrong with wanting to know the actual count.

 

Are you ok with Hillary being the Iowa caucus winner even if she cheated.?

We had two elections in the past that was stolen.

the 2000 election that Karl Rove and the Florida Rrepublicans did their part is stealing,hiding votes and then 2004 where once again Karl Rove and Kenneth Blackwell stole an estimated 140,000 votes...and later Kenneth Blackwell admitted there was voter fraud in 2004 and all votes were not counted.

So you are ok with the fact that all the votes weren't counted or shifted from Bernie to Hillary?

Why cant we have an official tally.

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Response to INdemo (Reply #42)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:34 AM

45. because you won't accept them unless the outcome favors Bernie

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #45)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:38 AM

49. You are so sure she won.

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Response to bkkyosemite (Reply #49)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:40 AM

51. I accept the official number from the Iowa Democratic party. YOU, on the other hand...

... are so sure that's wrong because everyone must be feeling the bern.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #51)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:26 PM

92. ...want an audit of those official numbers. A perfectly reasonable request.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #51)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:26 PM

145. I accept the official number from the Iowa Democratic party.

 

Exhibit A: License plate HRC 2016

Blatant favoritism displayed prominently does not make me trust the "official" numbers.

Still.... whatever the final results, it was a trampling of what Hillary expected.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #51)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 03:15 PM

195. No the people of IA who were and have seen the flipping of numbers do not

accept the official number that you speak of. For that head of that Dem party to deny a candidate the numbers is saying a lot. He has the right to see the numbers period. And if you think this Hillary supporter license plate proud is right. I don't know what to say to you.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #45)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:59 AM

73. Of course I will but I just believe the way things have transpired

 

there are some people within the DNC/Iowa Dems that don't want to release the total official count for a reason.That reason being is that Bernie won..but go ahead prove me wrong and I will the first tell you "well guess I was wrong".

I just dont want to see Democrats (the DNC/Iowa Dems) acting like a bunch of damn Karl Rove Republicans and stealing votes or hiding vote tallies or whatever.

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Response to INdemo (Reply #73)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:00 PM

74. the official count has been released.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #74)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:27 PM

95. ...and the DesMoines Register articles indicate it is wrong, in many cases.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #95)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:29 PM

97. which is speculation by them and NOT the official results.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #97)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:31 PM

98. No, this is what actual delegates and precinct captains have said about the results. They're pissed.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #98)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:33 PM

102. So? Others have NOT said that. The official results have been released.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #102)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:24 PM

143. I get a kick out of watching democrats argue against transparency.

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Response to frylock (Reply #143)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:26 PM

146. I get a kick out of watching 'prooogressiiivves' claim conspiracy every time they lose.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #146)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:29 PM

148. I can't wait until the tables have turned.

bookmarking

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Response to frylock (Reply #148)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:30 PM

149. the tables HAVE turned.

It was the Bernie followers claiming Clinton supporters would question the results if Iowa was close. But it's the other way around. LOL

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #149)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:32 PM

155. Enjoy yourself while you can. It's gonna be ugly when this gets ferreted out.

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Response to frylock (Reply #155)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:34 PM

159. talk about a bookmark-worthy post.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #102)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:39 PM

164. Aptly named as you must have spun around a dozen times

 

A dozen arguments. And this concerns just this post as I've read many others you seem better at dancing around than Kevin Costner's partner.

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Response to greiner3 (Reply #164)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:44 PM

169. an odd, rambling reply from you.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #74)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:12 PM

132. no it hasn't not the raw vote Just the deelegate assignments.

 

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:20 PM

139. Bernie followers like the Des Moines Register?

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:01 AM

12. I bet the actual raw votes show a SOLID win for Bernie.

We'll never see them.

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Response to stillwaiting (Reply #12)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:30 AM

40. Yes We Will

 

Some folks are tired of being screwed over at ever turn.

We won't stand for it any more.

Show the totals NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't let Hillary's hired vote counter get away with fraud (if there was fraud).

This is a democracy, not Venezuela.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:05 AM

14. And how many of these wrong transpositions do you have evidence of?

 

How many people were involved in this conspiracy?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #14)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:08 AM

17. Only takes one

 

To do the changes or even one company that tallies.

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Response to randome (Reply #14)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:14 AM

23. Ah yes. Vote fraud only happens in other countries.

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Response to randome (Reply #14)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:57 AM

72. Given the answer you got, that would seem to be none.

 

I really wish the silly conspiracy theories would stop, but it seems like they will continue unabated for now.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:06 AM

15. The DNC has refused to release the raw vote count, what are they hiding?

 

Someone needs to file a lawsuit to force them to hand it over. Only way this will ever get resolved.

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Response to gyroscope (Reply #15)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:09 AM

19. Ten bucks says it accidentally gets destroyed if a suit is filed

 

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #19)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:10 AM

21. i am sure the shredders have already been working overtime. nt

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Response to restorefreedom (Reply #21)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:13 AM

22. If that is the case, then we will know for sure they cheated

 

Still a lawsuit and court order would be the only way to know what happened.

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Response to gyroscope (Reply #22)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:15 AM

24. absolutely. i hope the register takes it to court. nt

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Response to gyroscope (Reply #22)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:17 AM

26. YOU ARE FREE TO DO WHAT WE TELL YOU!!!

Seems to be the general idea the HRC/Goldman Sachs campaign wants us to grasp.

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Response to gyroscope (Reply #15)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:31 PM

99. If it was

 

All legitimate and above board they would be crowing it from the rooftops

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:10 AM

20. as many have pointed out, auto recounts would have already occurred

in races with even bigger margins. they are hiding something. and we damn well better get to the truth before the rest of the states get a chance to rig their primaries.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:16 AM

25. Of course he won! And EVERYONE KNOWS IT. The cheating, lying, stealing and CORRUPTION is only

going to make More people go out and vote, who may have just stayed home. Once again, HRH and all her corrupt THUGS, screwed up - Big Time. People are pissed!

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

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Response to in_cog_ni_to (Reply #25)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:37 AM

47. The Corruption Is Exactly The Point

 

Of course the media, our media is completely ignoring the fact they won't show us any data.

Some Americans don't like in your face election stealing.

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Response to in_cog_ni_to (Reply #25)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:26 PM

93. +1000

 

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:20 AM

29. LOL

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Response to Metric System (Reply #29)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:29 AM

37. Laughing?

I bet that echoes nicely in Hi11ary's near empty venues.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #37)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:34 AM

44. That's all they ever write.

Might be a bot. No evidence of any thought process.

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Response to DamnYankeeInHouston (Reply #44)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:38 AM

48. I did not know that.

I'm learning a LOT about some of these purported Hi11ary supporters. The more obnoxious ones are on my IL.

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Response to DamnYankeeInHouston (Reply #44)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:41 AM

52. Nope, that's just my response to things that are so ridiculous they're not worth putting time,

thought and energy into beyond LOL. This crowd is so anti-Hillary that nothing I say beyond that would make a difference anyway.

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Response to Metric System (Reply #52)


Response to Post removed (Reply #147)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:31 PM

153. My party? WTF are you talking about?!?

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Response to Metric System (Reply #153)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:32 PM

157. You are a democrat, yes?

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Response to frylock (Reply #157)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:36 PM

161. Oh, so the Democratic party is not your party? So why are you on Democratic Underground?

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Response to Metric System (Reply #161)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:40 PM

165. I'm here mostly for LBN.

You may notice that I've been here a minute.

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Response to Metric System (Reply #29)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:39 AM

50. Hillary supporters think this is funny. What if it was the other way around?

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:21 AM

30. I think Bernie won because of what Hillary did.

 

Hillary jumped on stage even before the press was assembled and declare herself the winner.

She did this because she knew the networks and cable would pick this up and immediately announce that she was the winner even though the official count had not been tallied.

I think this tactic came from Bill because well this is how he operates. He has obviously picked up a lot watching Karl Rove.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:25 AM

33. With elections so close all the time....

our country is going to have to fix this crapped out election system. One vote won't count until then.

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Response to mdbl (Reply #33)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:45 AM

57. Hopefully, when Bernie is president, he'll get rid of evoting machines (if he survives the hacks) &

takes us back to voting on PAPER ONLY.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:47 AM

59. discrepancies are adding up

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2016/02/06/iowans-claim-instances-when-sanders-shorted-delegates/79902080/

A total of 110 people were present for the final vote, and the count was 58 people for Sanders and 52 people for Clinton — which amounted to five county delegates for Sanders and four for Clinton, said Lonnie McCombs, a 59-year-old Knoxville Democrat who is retired from careers in the military and in manufacturing.

“That’s how it was recorded,” said McCombs, a Sanders backer.

But when the Knoxville Journal Express newspaper posted the Democratic Party’s official results, it showed Knoxville No. 3 results as Clinton with five county delegates and Sanders with four.

“It cost Bernie a (county) delegate,” said McCombs, who took to Facebook to report his concerns.

Steve Eck, who was Clinton’s precinct captain for Knoxville No. 3, confirmed: “Somebody transposed those numbers."

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:52 AM

63. I disagree and would bet Bernie does too...

Bernie Sanders did exactly as well as he needed to do in Iowa. It absolutely doesn't matter whether he actually won or not. The delegate counts are minuscule and won't affect the outcome in the convention at all.

What matters is that he came out of Iowa with momentum. He is, according to everything I've read, going to take New Hampshire fairly easily.

Look what has happened since Iowa.

The Quinnipiac poll now shows him within the margin of error nationally against Clinton. Clinton is continuing to have to play defense. The media is now not ignoring Sanders. He just got his shot on SNL and looked pretty darn good according to what I've read. He is continuing to play offense, but is remaining true to his original message. Clinton seems to be floundering in terms of message. Her surrogates are beginning to sound almost insane (Madelaine Allbright is quoted as saying there's "special place in hell for women that don't support each other...". Clinton has now been forced to make a pledge to not ever cut Social Security benefits. Just as she was in the past forced to abjure the TPP and the Trans Canadian pipeline.

The Sander's campaign is just moving on. Much as it has done from the very beginning. Don't sweat it. Let Iowa recede in the rear view mirror.

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Response to Moral Compass (Reply #63)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:16 PM

85. If she cheated there, she will cheat elsewhere.

 

It does matter.

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #85)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:22 PM

142. You're right, it absolutely does. We need to get out in front of this NOW!

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:53 AM

65. full investigation that he is corrupt!!

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:55 AM

67. Yes, Iowa democrats are cheaters and liars (and enablers of the establishment!)

Keep up the great "reporting." All the BernieBro led slander and lawsuits against the Democratic party will definitely help the Democratic nominee this fall!

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #67)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:31 PM

151. Take it up with the Des Moines Register.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:56 AM

71. In the most important way, he already did.

 

Prior to Iowa, he was a novelty.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:24 PM

91. ELECTION fraud is not VOTER fraud.

Voter fraud is when voters attempt to vote multiple times and/or vote in a ward in which they do not belong. Election fraud is when those involved in the execution and tabulation of elections change the results with malicious intent.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:36 PM

106. Move on

 

And I'm not being sarcastic. When a primary is that close, nobody won or lost. Primaries don't work that way. It's something the media would use to make noise, and it's of symbolic importance to the Clinton and Sanders campaign organizations, but there's only the tiniest chance it will affect the outcome.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:39 PM

107. Can you please link to some evidence which supports your claim?

 


Who is saying there are transpositions in Hillary's favor?



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Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #107)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:57 PM

175. The obviously anti-Clinton Des Moines register.

Their endorsement of Clinton in both 2016 and 2008 was clearly a ruse to cover up their anti-Clinton bias.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2016/02/06/iowans-claim-instances-when-sanders-shorted-delegates/79902080/

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #175)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 04:23 PM

197. They are saying Hillary won by 0.25% (as of 2:12 pm CST 2/7/16)

 

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2016/02/07/iowa-dems-fix-errors-caucus-results-say-clinton-still-winner/79967552/

^snip^


The Iowa Democratic Party has discovered errors in the results from five precincts, but the outcome of the Iowa caucuses remains the same, officials said Sunday.

Hillary Clinton won with 700.47 state delegate equivalents, or 49.84 percent.

Bernie Sanders finished in second place with 696.92 state delegate equivalents or 49.59 percent.

That's a difference of a quarter of a percentage point.



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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:41 PM

108. Like Bernie said

it really doesn't matter much anyway. I have my suspicions too but I plan to move on for now. If we see this kind of shit again then it'll be time to do something. IMO

For now I'm moving on

ETA: if there is any there there then maybe just give them enough rope and let'm hang themselves. Kinda what the feds did in Oregon
sometimes when a person gets by with something they're quick to do it again. Just saying

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:43 PM

109. We must remain vigilant because they plan to pull this shit in every state.

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #109)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:46 PM

113. THIS

is a prime example of how Bernie followers think

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #113)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:58 PM

122. Could it be that if Bernie followers think this way, it's because Hillary followers behave the

 

way Republicans do?

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Response to Cal33 (Reply #122)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:00 PM

123. more likely because you're given to conspiracies.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #113)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:06 PM

129. We think this way with good reason. It all comes back to the trust issue.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:46 PM

112. It is about integrity. Bernie made an honest statement: It is a virtual tie. Hillary...

Hillary made an unfounded, deceptive, misleading, spin oriented statement: I won!

Bernie displays integrity and good judgment. Hillary does NOT.

I want a president with integrity and good judgment.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:48 PM

116. It's more about the future...

 

The result, at this point, was a tie. Whether one or two delegates flip is not going to make much of difference at the national level. Even retroactively proving Bernie won, won't make a difference at this point. It even being this close irreparably harmed Clinton's coronation.

However, this process needs to be done better, with the ability to get an accurate count and recount with full transparency.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:49 PM

117. HRC Is So Desperate To Be POTUS - Nothing Would Surprise This Citizen

eom

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:52 PM

119. You know, that is what they mean when they say that Hillary

Has a great organization in many states, developed over many years. It means that many people will probably involved at many levels in the process will make little "mistakes" in favor of Hillary here and there that collectively could make a difference. Vigilance is a must.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:05 PM

128. ...



Sid

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:18 PM

136. Lying liars!

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:30 PM

150. If these are just mistakes

there should be about equal numbers in favor of Hillary and Bernie, right? So how many have been in favor of Bernie?

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:31 PM

154. Jesus, who's more dishonest?

The people actually committing the fraud or the Hillary supporters who want this case closed and ignored? If it went the other way and there were allegations of fraud - especially in light of the huge lead Hillary had initially - you'd damn well want a full accounting.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:36 PM

160. Reports that there were a lot of people angry over the count.

 

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:40 PM

166. An investigation is necessary for transparency's sake

I know that Bernie Sanders, because he is so gentlemanly and because he prefers looking at the bigger picture, said that it does not really matter who won and lost by a couple of delegates but if the Democratic Party really cares about democracy, it should investigate this issue thoroughly.

The voters deserve nothing less than the right result and complete transparency. This is 2016 and the United States should know how to conduct free, fair, just and transparent elections by now.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:41 PM

167. whoever won, doesnt matter, lets just see the final numbers. How hard is that?

 

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 02:15 PM

182. I don't know...

Maybe they should just flip a coin.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 02:34 PM

187. Hahaha

This:

"There is now enough evidence to think that Bernie actually won the Iowa Caucus."


Followed by this:

"Obviously, this is just my opinion about who really won."

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Response to kjones (Reply #187)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 01:21 AM

209. reformist2 is of the opinion that there is "now enough evidence". That's pretty clear IMHO. nt

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #209)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 01:35 AM

210. To reiterate...

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 02:59 PM

193. Debbie, Hillary, and the whole establishment should be in JAIL for election fraud.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 03:09 PM

194. What does "Bernie won"

 

Even mean? It was essentially a tie, so are you saying it was more of a tie in Bernie's favor? And if there were some irregularities, does it change the outcome regarding the Dem nominee? I suspect that Hillary still carries the day, though I hope Bernie wins (unless Biden or Warren enter the race, both of whom are better candidates).

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 04:25 PM

198. I am a Bernie supporter, but I disagree with your OP

 


I don't see the evidence. Please try to provide a link to substantiate your OP.



As of 2:12 pm CST 2/7/2016

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2016/02/07/iowa-dems-fix-errors-caucus-results-say-clinton-still-winner/79967552/

^snip^

The Iowa Democratic Party has discovered errors in the results from five precincts, but the outcome of the Iowa caucuses remains the same, officials said Sunday.

Hillary Clinton won with 700.47 state delegate equivalents, or 49.84 percent.

Bernie Sanders finished in second place with 696.92 state delegate equivalents or 49.59 percent.

That's a difference of a quarter of a percentage point.





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Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #198)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 10:43 AM

216. That small difference is exactly why it should have a recount.

Even a small mistake could change the outcome either way.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 10:42 AM

215. With any election that close there is almost always a recount.

I remember my grandfather lost an Iowa election by 2 votes and they held a recount. Honesty requires it.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 10:50 AM

217. "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything" - Stalin

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