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bigtree

(85,915 posts)
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 01:03 PM Feb 2016

Hillary to Bernie: "Enough with the false innuendo" about Social Security

— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) February 6, 2016

@BernieSanders I won't cut Social Security. As always, I'll defend it, & I'll expand it. Enough false innuendos. https://t.co/hBeTCQj6Fv -H


Bernie Sanders ?@BernieSanders 18h18 hours ago
I urge Sec. Clinton to join me in saying loudly and clearly that we will never cut Social Security.
http://bernie.to/NH-SocialSecurity

49 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Hillary to Bernie: "Enough with the false innuendo" about Social Security (Original Post) bigtree Feb 2016 OP
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2016 #1
Nothing in her past would remotely indicate that bigtree Feb 2016 #4
She has proposed adding means testing. jeff47 Feb 2016 #17
no, she hasn't proposed means testing bigtree Feb 2016 #18
She has proposed benefits that are only available to low-income seniors. jeff47 Feb 2016 #20
Aha, so you're opposed to expanding Social Security. DanTex Feb 2016 #27
Dan, you aren't that stupid. jeff47 Feb 2016 #29
Insults aside, let's be clear. Between increasing benefits to the poor, DanTex Feb 2016 #32
Again, why force that awful bargain? jeff47 Feb 2016 #34
You won't even answer the question? DanTex Feb 2016 #35
Unlike you, I'm not going to pretend we only have two bad options. jeff47 Feb 2016 #37
This exchange exemplifies why people who want actual progress support Hillary. DanTex Feb 2016 #38
What Bull Malarkey. I love the meme...socialist utopia when adapted to Social Security...US style. libdem4life Feb 2016 #42
Sec Clinton begs to differ with you on that: marble falls Feb 2016 #21
that sad article parses her words bigtree Feb 2016 #22
Yeah catnhatnh Feb 2016 #23
That's rich coming from the Queen of False. n/t PonyUp Feb 2016 #2
Hmmm - 100 posts BlueMTexpat Feb 2016 #9
Awww...did my 100 posts hurt your Hillary feelings? PonyUp Feb 2016 #10
"Bully" you, LOL! BlueMTexpat Feb 2016 #12
LOL someone with your super duper over 5000 posts doesn't know DU rules? PonyUp Feb 2016 #14
... SidDithers Feb 2016 #49
It's amazing, isn't it Andy823 Feb 2016 #24
+1! eom BlueMTexpat Feb 2016 #25
I'm so tired of her using his exact words. bkkyosemite Feb 2016 #3
Jeez...she's so angry... TCJ70 Feb 2016 #5
Now she has finally (after being pushed and prodded) promised not to cut SS. last1standing Feb 2016 #6
she's said this for years bigtree Feb 2016 #7
That does not state that she would not cut SS benefits. last1standing Feb 2016 #8
damn clear to me, having watched her defend SS for decades bigtree Feb 2016 #11
What you have decided she meant has no bearing on what she actually said. last1standing Feb 2016 #15
Actually, that quote is horrific. jeff47 Feb 2016 #19
Well the problem was she said different things at diferent times on the issue. In 2008... PoliticAverse Feb 2016 #30
Triangulation...again - her 'expansion' is very limited and specific Ferd Berfel Feb 2016 #13
This ^^^^^thank you. libdem4life Feb 2016 #45
Thank you Bernie Sanders for pulling Hillary to the left at least rhetorically. Broward Feb 2016 #16
You are absolutely right. Red Knight Feb 2016 #46
It's not a false innuendo if it's true, where are you on the record before a minute ago ? orpupilofnature57 Feb 2016 #26
She's been on the record the whole time. It's part of her platform, on her website. DanTex Feb 2016 #28
Where's she standing this week on the TPP ? orpupilofnature57 Feb 2016 #31
Strange non sequitur, but as you know, she has been opposed to TPP ever since the final DanTex Feb 2016 #33
Only a fool would trust Hillary not to cut their SS. nt Live and Learn Feb 2016 #36
idiotic statement bigtree Feb 2016 #39
Asinine assessment. Hope you aren't going to dependent on your SS in the slim chance HC does win. Live and Learn Feb 2016 #43
how droll bigtree Feb 2016 #44
She just projects her own behavior onto him. polichick Feb 2016 #40
ironic statement bigtree Feb 2016 #41
It's not Bernie who uses "artful smears" and "false innuendos" - and HRC knows it. polichick Feb 2016 #47
+10,000 nt Live and Learn Feb 2016 #48

Response to bigtree (Original post)

bigtree

(85,915 posts)
4. Nothing in her past would remotely indicate that
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 01:11 PM
Feb 2016

...Sec. Clinton has been a strong defender of Social Security for decades.

Shame on the Sanders campaign for fearmongering about her intentions.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
17. She has proposed adding means testing.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 02:02 PM
Feb 2016

Via a program to pay a "bonus" to low-income seniors.

The main reason Social Security has been durable is it applies to everyone. It is not means tested. Because means tested programs are easily demonized as being for "those people". "Those people" being whatever boogeyman fits your target audience - non-whites at a KKK rally, Lazy moochers at a more mainstream rally, and so on.

Attaching means testing to Social Security is extremely dangerous. It is widely regarded as "step 1" in eliminating the program.

bigtree

(85,915 posts)
18. no, she hasn't proposed means testing
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 02:11 PM
Feb 2016

...you've distorted that concern and mislabeled it means-testing.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
20. She has proposed benefits that are only available to low-income seniors.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 02:15 PM
Feb 2016

That, by definition, is means-testing. Otherwise it would be available to all seniors.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
29. Dan, you aren't that stupid.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 07:10 PM
Feb 2016

Please stop pretending to be that stupid.

There's no reason benefit increases can only be given to the poor.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
32. Insults aside, let's be clear. Between increasing benefits to the poor,
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 07:13 PM
Feb 2016

and not increasing benefits at all, you would prefer no increase in benefits. Is that correct?

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
34. Again, why force that awful bargain?
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 07:14 PM
Feb 2016

You're effectively asking if I want to end Social Security completely, or just leave it insufficient.

Why do you want to end Social Security, Dan?

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
35. You won't even answer the question?
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 07:17 PM
Feb 2016

If you think that bargain is awful, I'd like you to introduce to the GOP.

If you were asking me whether it's better to leave Social Security the way it is now or end it, I would say leave it the way it is.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
37. Unlike you, I'm not going to pretend we only have two bad options.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 07:22 PM
Feb 2016
If you think that bargain is awful, I'd like you to introduce to the GOP.

They already proposed it. I'm actually rather surprised Clinton is copying GOP proposals from the 1980s.

If you were asking me whether it's better to leave Social Security the way it is now or end it, I would say leave it the way it is.

So why do you want poor people to starve!!!!!11!!eleven!!!!

Oh wait, that was the dumb response you were waiting to spring on me.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
38. This exchange exemplifies why people who want actual progress support Hillary.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 07:27 PM
Feb 2016

If we expanded SS, even if not as much as you or I might want, that would be a good thing. But you're not even willing to consider it. And you're also not willing to acknowledge that protecting Social Security would be better than having it repealed completely.

You act as though even discussing policies that fall short of a socialist utopia is some kind of sell-out. I hate to break it to you, but the socialist utopia isn't coming.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
42. What Bull Malarkey. I love the meme...socialist utopia when adapted to Social Security...US style.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 09:21 PM
Feb 2016

Fail...Badly. What, no unicorns and rainbows? We Progressives are mourning the loss. Not.

marble falls

(56,358 posts)
21. Sec Clinton begs to differ with you on that:
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 02:38 PM
Feb 2016
http://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2016/02/05/huff-post-hillary-clinton-refuses-rule-out-any-and-all-benefit-cuts-social

Huff Post: “Hillary Clinton Refuses to Rule Out Any and All Benefit Cuts to Social Security”

PCCC & Social Security Works Launch Online Ad Buy in NH

PCCC: “It is an absolute must for a Democratic nominee who claims to be progressive to take Social Security cuts off the table.”

WASHINGTON - Today, after Sec. Hillary Clinton’s campaign made clear for the first time that she will not commit to never cut Social Security, the Progressive Change Campaign Committee and Social Security Works have launched an online ad buy in New Hampshire to increase pressure on Clinton to make that explicit promise before Tuesday’s primary.

Minutes ago, the Clinton campaign told the Huffington Post, “She has no plans to cut benefits.” The Huffington Post accurately reported, “Hillary Clinton refuses to rule out any and all benefit cuts to Social Security.”

The PCCC and Social Security Works in response announced an online ad buy statewide across New Hampshire today. The Facebook and Google ads will target likely Democratic voters, including Clinton’s supporters.

Stephanie Taylor, Co-founder of the PCCC issued the following statement:

“Hillary Clinton says she has ‘no plans’ to cut Social Security -- but George W. Bush had ‘no plans’ to invade Iraq. That is not a promise, and our grandparents and veterans need a promise.

“It is an absolute must for a Democratic nominee who claims to be progressive to say clearly and unequivocally that they will never cut Social Security benefits. Bernie Sanders has made that commitment. Hillary Clinton should make that commitment before the New Hampshire primary so Democrats can focus on expanding benefits.”

<snip>

bigtree

(85,915 posts)
22. that sad article parses her words
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 02:46 PM
Feb 2016

...and comes to a conclusion well outside of anything she has said or implied.

BlueMTexpat

(15,349 posts)
9. Hmmm - 100 posts
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 01:32 PM
Feb 2016

since 03 Feb 2016 and ALL to smear HRC.

Is that you, KKKarl? It's not going to work.

 

PonyUp

(1,680 posts)
10. Awww...did my 100 posts hurt your Hillary feelings?
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 01:36 PM
Feb 2016

If I had 100 posts supporting Hillary you wouldn't have commented.

You can't bully me with low-post count comments.

 

PonyUp

(1,680 posts)
14. LOL someone with your super duper over 5000 posts doesn't know DU rules?
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 01:42 PM
Feb 2016

Do not draw negative attention to the fact that someone is new, has a low post count, or recently became a member of Democratic Underground. Do not insinuate that because someone is new, they are a troll or disruptor.

Got anything else?

Andy823

(11,495 posts)
24. It's amazing, isn't it
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 05:52 PM
Feb 2016

How so many of the new posters that come here seem to be Clinton bashers. I am sure it's not Karl posting here, but I think some of his minions might be coming here.

bkkyosemite

(5,792 posts)
3. I'm so tired of her using his exact words.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 01:10 PM
Feb 2016

Progressive....enough....expand it...and many more...this is what they decided to do was to mimic his words back at him. She did the enough at the debate and now in the tweet. Bernie has always said enough is enough...

TCJ70

(4,387 posts)
5. Jeez...she's so angry...
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 01:12 PM
Feb 2016

...how dare he ask her to stand up for traditional Democratic values and principles.

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
6. Now she has finally (after being pushed and prodded) promised not to cut SS.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 01:14 PM
Feb 2016

Of course she had to try, yet again, to smear Bernie while making the promise, but I'll take it.

bigtree

(85,915 posts)
7. she's said this for years
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 01:20 PM
Feb 2016

from 2007:

Clinton, now a New York senator, jabbed at rival Barack Obama. She suggested the Illinois senator is wrong for considering raising the retirement age or payroll tax rates to help ensure Social Security's long-term solvency. Clinton favors improving the national economy to avoid any more trust fund withdrawals.

"Putting everything on the table is not the right answer," Clinton said. "Raising the retirement age is not an answer. Cutting benefits is not an answer. We need to get back to the fiscal responsibility that we had in the 1990s, when we weren't draining the Social Security fund any more."

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
8. That does not state that she would not cut SS benefits.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 01:23 PM
Feb 2016

Those are weasel words that promise nothing. You know that as well as I do.

But she has finally, after all this time, come out and unequivocally stated that she will not cut SS. If she becomes president (a prospect I highly doubt) I will expect her to keep her promise.

bigtree

(85,915 posts)
11. damn clear to me, having watched her defend SS for decades
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 01:37 PM
Feb 2016

...and she didn't rely on the senator from Vermont to originate, hold, or defend those views.

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
15. What you have decided she meant has no bearing on what she actually said.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 01:44 PM
Feb 2016

And until this tweet, I have seen no proof that she has ever, without weasel words, promised not to cut SS.

So apparently she really does need "the senator from Vermont to originate, hold, or defend those views."

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
19. Actually, that quote is horrific.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 02:13 PM
Feb 2016
We need to get back to the fiscal responsibility that we had in the 1990s, when we weren't draining the Social Security fund any more.

The entire point of the trust fund was for it to be drained when the Boomers retire. Their large size followed by small GenX meant we needed to save up a big pile of money before the Boomers retired. Since Millennials are larger than GenX, GenX won't provide the same "upside-down" problem (it'll also depend on how big the post-Millennial generation turns out).

The large trust fund is not supposed to be a permanent fixture.

There's also the little problem of it being a lie. The trust fund is still growing. Payments via FICA taxes are below expenses via Social Security benefits, but the trust fund is still net-positive due to interest on the $2.6T in it.

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
30. Well the problem was she said different things at diferent times on the issue. In 2008...
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 07:10 PM
Feb 2016

Obama and Clinton had this exchange:

CLINTON: I am totally committed to making sure Social Security is solvent. You’ve got to begin to reign in the budget, pay as you go, to try to replenish our Social Security Trust Fund. And with all due respect, the last time we had a crisis in Social Security was 1983. Pres. Reagan and Speaker Tip O’Neill came up with a commission. That was the best and smartest way, because you’ve got to get Republicans and Democrats together. That’s what I will do. And I will say, #1, don’t cut benefits on current beneficiaries they’re already having a hard enough time. And #2, do not impose additional tax burdens on middle-class families.

OBAMA: That commission raised the retirement age, and also raised the payroll tax. So Sen. Clinton can’t have it both ways.

(From: http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Social_Security.htm )

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
13. Triangulation...again - her 'expansion' is very limited and specific
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 01:38 PM
Feb 2016
Demand lower prices for prescription drugs for seniors receiving Medicare.
"Demand" ... i.e. beg in harsh tones? And what about the rest of the country that pays 5 times what the rest of the world pays? How about forcing the greedy bastards into submission?


Expand Social Security benefits for widows and those who took time out of the paid workforce to care for a child or sick family member.

expanding for widows and sick leave is fine but WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF US?

It depends on what your definition of the word IS, is.

I do not trust her.

Broward

(1,976 posts)
16. Thank you Bernie Sanders for pulling Hillary to the left at least rhetorically.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 01:47 PM
Feb 2016

Finally, a more direct and clear declaration by Hillary. Never would've happened without Bernie getting into the race.

Red Knight

(704 posts)
46. You are absolutely right.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 09:29 PM
Feb 2016

No matter what happens--Bernie has forced Hillary to move to the left a bit during this campaign.

It's going to look very bad if she changes her mind later.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
28. She's been on the record the whole time. It's part of her platform, on her website.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 07:09 PM
Feb 2016

The fact that anyone believes HRC is going to cut SS is absurd.

 

orpupilofnature57

(15,472 posts)
31. Where's she standing this week on the TPP ?
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 07:12 PM
Feb 2016

Bernie never changed his mind, and until the pepsi challenge came she would have " I'll fight for you " forever .

bigtree

(85,915 posts)
39. idiotic statement
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 09:14 PM
Feb 2016

...this fool is smart enough to disregard those who believe being anti-Hillary represents some kind of revolution.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
43. Asinine assessment. Hope you aren't going to dependent on your SS in the slim chance HC does win.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 09:23 PM
Feb 2016

"They that are fated to be fools, have one consolation, that they are fated also to be ignorant of it."
----Norman MacDonald

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