Hillary and the Is She a Progressive or a Moderate? question...

[Lucinda]

I have posted this in another thread and am OP'ing it here.

Hillary Clinton Was Liberal. Hillary Clinton Is Liberal.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/hillary-clinton-was-liberal-hillary-clinton-is-liberal/

"...Clinton was one of the most liberal members during her time in the Senate. According to an analysis of roll call votes by Voteview, Clinton’s record was more liberal than 70 percent of Democrats in her final term in the Senate. She was more liberal than 85 percent of all members. Her 2008 rival in the Democratic presidential primary, Barack Obama, was nearby with a record more liberal than 82 percent of all members — he was not more liberal than Clinton.

Clinton also has a history of very liberal public statements. Clinton rates as a “hard core liberal” per the OnTheIssues.org scale. She is as liberal as Elizabeth Warren and barely more moderate than Bernie Sanders. And while Obama is also a “hard core liberal,” Clinton again was rated as more liberal than Obama..."

There is quite a bit more at the link. She has always advocated for universal health care, and the flip flop talking points have to do with what she is saying NOW about the political climate.


That said, she talks about the business of governing from the center, which she does, while advocating liberal issues. And it is necessary in a representative democracy like ours, to work with the other side, from the middle, in order to make any lasting progress at all. It is pretty much designed to work that way, so one faction cannot pass policy that doesn't represent the majority of the people. Each side has voters expecting their congress people to support the policies they campaigned on. The only way we have to counter it, is to outnumber the Reps in congress, and maintain those numbers, or it would all flip back again when more Reps were elected. Right now, as the election stands, experts say we may be able to retake the Senate, but not the House because it would take apx 30 seats to turn over, and there only appear to be about 10 that are competitive.

I think the only way to a permanent progressive country, is to move moderate right voters leftward. Then we would have a clear majority. Not an easy talk with 20+ years of people like Rush and Glenn Beck scaring the crap out of people. But I think Trump's popularity shows that they are beginning to get the fact that their elected politicians are actually making things much worse.

There may be other ways, but I cannot think of any which would give us a solid majority not subject to constant election changes.

[Odin2005]

1. Hillary is a pro-corporate CONSERVATIVE.

[Lucinda]

2. Her voting record shows the opposite n/t

[workinclasszero]

12. Totally untrue

and you know it, I'm sure.

[NorthCarolina]

3. Neither, she's the

same kind of Corporate Conservative as any of the "establishment" republicans (ie. Bush, Kaisch, Romney, McCain). I'm really not sure why her campaign wants to try to sell the "progressive" meme since her supporters shun progressive policies like single payer (unless of course they realize she's just BS'ing for the campaign which is likely).

[Lucinda]

5. Didnt read the link? n/t

[sadoldgirl]

4. This country has been going backward since

Raygun, in spite of the general consensus of the people.

Incrementalism is not the answer anymore.

[Lucinda]

6. How do you get anything passed without it, as circumstances now stand?

It is the way our government was built. What options are there?

[Lucinda]

7. ...

[AtomicKitten]

8. Let's ask her.

[bigwillq]

10. Great vid.

[AtomicKitten]

11. horse's mouth and all

[bigwillq]

9. She said she was a moderate. Now she's a progressive.

I never know what to believe with her. Her positions change daily.

[Lucinda]

15. Not really. Her voting record and her positions are progressive.

And it is tempered with the need to hang on to what we can, and build upon it, based on what can be achieved when you live in a representative government.

I don't see why anyone has a problem getting that.

You could argue that you don't feel that working incrementally is enough anymore, and I could totally understand that position. But to call her anything other than progressive seems like a stretch.

[R B Garr]

13. She just hit it out of the park answering this at the

Town Hall, saying (paraphrasing) that according to how Bernie and social media have made themselves the 'gatekeepers" of what a progressive is, many icons like the late, great Paul Wellstone would not pass. She also named others.

Paraphrasing, she said it much better but she nailed it.

[Lucinda]

14. Not watching the debate, but trying to catch the gist until I can catch the video later

Thank you for the info! Wellstone.