Poll: Let's have a reality check on Bernie's single payer health care plan

candidate

what a screwed up conditioned reflex, that some assume everything is an attack against someone's candidate

Better to not try at all.

I mean, why bother to stand up for our own beliefs. Surely somehow it will magically manifest if we all just sit on our thumbs.

Do you think that is how the Republicans have consistently moved the ball to the economic right over the last thirty plus years?

And that will make all the difference for control of House and Senate. And this time, the president won't squander the majority by going Third Way (like Obama did in 2009 / 2010).

...and I don't think he'd get single payer past this congress. I'm not supporting him for his proposed social programs, though. So it's not a deal breaker for me.

Bernie is not the important part of the equation. Bernie is just going to channel the vast energy of a dedicated active network to pressure congress to do these things. People completely miss the point of his campaign by asking if Bernie can/cannot do something. This is not and has never been just about Bernie. It is about building and leveraging the power of people in large numbers.

n/t

country will have another useless Congress.

to deal with our corrupt, big money flooded, political system. Bernie has been clear that we need reform before trying to tackle heath care.

which the momentum of such a sea change in US politics could very well do
(that sea change being the election of an FDR-type figure into the oval office)

then no doubt single payer has an excellent chance of becoming reality.

from Bernie's revolution will win. No way.

and I'd rather have some chance than no chance under Obama who would cave as soon as a Republican said boo. You don't push your agenda by playing patty cake with the enemy and caving to their demands from the start. Even if single payer fails there are a whole host of issues (banking, campaign finance, TPP, etc.) on which Bernie would be better in every conceivable way than Clinton.

Clinton said she is just like Obama and like Obama she would fold and cave almost immediately like a cheap suit in the face of republican pressure.

join him let alone Republicans.

nt

He didn't even want to listen to advocates for single-payer, or even public option.

And the man with the bully pulpit at the time only made a half-hearted effort at best.
Hell, if he had tried as hard for at least public option as he did for TPA, the public option might have had a chance.

I will not just give up completely. I do not think that promising to slightly modify Obamacare in some minute fashion will definitely inspire tons of people to show up on election day to knock out those gerrymandered districts.

Again, if we are unwilling to stand up for our ideals then who will? Our opposition? The media? The insurance industry?

Without some kind of transformative politics we are not going to move the ball very far. I personally think that Bernie actually MIGHT function to change the way people think about politics and where they end up on the spectrum

If you know anything about politics at all you would know that the chances of any Democrat wining those Republicans districts is 0%, much less a Democrat so far to the left that he/she has adopted Bernie's values.

It means that the odds have been stacked against Democrats by shifting around the lines of voting districts to try to create party majorities in as many districts as possible.

Please don't make absurdly pedantic arguments in order to score illusory points.

忍, meaning "persevere"

You certainly are persevering at trying to disillusion people who want meaningful, beneficial change.

Now that's a funny one.

at all would you say she's not being realistic or that she's trying to instigate progress in the right direction?

I tell you this, straight white man, your bigoted culture has yet to manage to pass an ENDA or Equality Act, legislation offering protection from discrimination in housing and employment for LGBT Americans. Democrats Ed Koch and Bella Abzug first introduced such a bill in 1974. Of course they could not get it through Congress, just as the many other introduced versions have not gotten through the Congress.
But that legislation is the right thing to do. When it eventually passes much credit will go to Koch and Abzug for starting a process early when that process was sure to be extended endlessly by ignorant bigots.

What you seem to suggest is not introducing such bills, not attempting to make progress on difficult things because they might not fly though the Congress first shot out of the gate. That's just a horrible idea. Horrible.

-Arthur C Clarke

This straight white man agrees with you, Bluenorthwest.

At least he isn't bought and paid for by health insurance industry and is speaking to his true vision for America.

My hope is that with a significant enough push we can get a public option. That alone would be HUGE. Sanders is a pragmatist when it comes to actual governance, so I'm not worried. I just hope we can mobilize enough people to effect a central tenet of the Democratic party platform.

Oh yeah, and all the other reasons Clinton would never get my vote over Sanders.

Ya mean the one that not only isn't in office yet, but hasn't even been elected? I think theyll be busy giving out unicorns and rainbows.

The Republican majority in House which will be elected by Gerrymandered districts.

And the Democrats in the House who will be led by the Woman who just told you it ain't gonna happen.

Got it. Guess I should just join in with the Surrender Monkeys and give up without a fight.


Cuz Republicans.

this congress. MFA needs a democratic majority in both chambers. As do any other proposals that represent our party's principals.

Presidents don't push things through Congress unless they control the Congress. Look at how Hillary's plan fizzled out.

But the president can energize the American people -- and if enough people on both sides of the aisle decide they want it, then the Congress will eventually follow suit.

Hillary has already signaled that she likes corporate control of health care. So she wouldn't energize the people at all. She'd merely wine and dine with the healthcare corporation executives.

Republican's will absolutely control the House for the next there 3 two year election cycles at the absolute minimum and very likely the one after that. If you think they hated Obama care...

Nearly every Democrat in the House and the Senate who has made an endorsement has endorsed Hillary. Almost no one has endorsed Bernie. There is an excellent reason for that - they don't want the the President, the leader of the Democratic Party, trying to push through proposals which call for raising taxes to pay for programs which that only a segment of the Democratic electorate favor and which the majority of Americans will consider radical. Nancy Pelosi has already spoken for those House members and Senators and made that clear.

No matter how much enthusiasm you guy generate, no matter many idealist proposals you dream up, Bernie supporters don't even make up the majority of Democratic voters and you are but a small segment of the American electorate. You will not get to dictate government policy.

That's reality.

If he gains enough visibility and generates enough awareness for enough people to finally wake the fuck up and realize how thoroughly and deliberately that Congress is screwing them and can instigate a shift in it's composition in upcoming elections? Then maybe.

I don't want to repeat myself.

Since nothing you said contradicts anything I said however I assume you're just pointing me at it as a general FYI because you think I'd find it interesting?

It will mean he's able to deliver a huge # of voters.

#s like that would translate into wins down ballot.

#s like that is what gives a prez a mandate.

Should that happen, Nancy Pelosi & co would fall in line if Bernie's policies make sense, the majority voters back him and the #s work.

I think he can get it together. No, I think he WOULD get it done with the backing of voters if he forcefully enlists voter help.

I will never forget when PBO took the public option off the table and the ensuing anger among the electorate. The democrats better never shy away from doing what's right for the majority again IMO.

Yes the gop pigs will obstruct but I wonder how many of them will last.

Idk, but maybe if Bernie is loud and forceful enough he may, at the very least, bring some integrity to our leadership.

In no way am I disparaging PBO... He is amazing but the racist obstructionists were never going to act in the country's best interest.

...and even incremental moves and motivating people toward that goal are worthwhile things, even if it takes until he's out of office for it to happen. If you don't start somewhere, you never get there.

In other words, the answer to your question doesn't really matter.

I hope he can.

get his health care reform through congress. I support Bernie but I'd like to see some Dem Party plans to retake the Congress of the U.S. We need a HUGE army of dedicated progressive Dems to do this...I'm safe here in liberal blue CT but I worry about the rest of the country.

People.

Just like all the major reforms he pushed through.
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-gets-it-done-sanders-record-pushing-through-major-reforms-will-surprise-you

We prefer Sanders' vision for America, even if only a fraction of it is completed.

the Republican controlled House of Representatives and why do you think he can get that through when the Republicans are going to hate him more than Obama.

His judgement is clearly superior and I trust him to appoint SCOTUS judges who are opposed to Citizens United. Clinton's super PAC donors would not benefit from a reformed campaign finance system so I am not able to trust her as much.

His executive agenda, i.e. no wall st. insiders at treasury etc for other executive departments is also well worth the fight to put Sanders in the congress.

Oh yeah, and he is not dishonest and a hawk like Clinton is.

So I reject the premise that I have to believe his legislative agenda has a chance in order to support him.

I do, however, believe he'll do his best to make it happen, and he's a tireless campaigner, so he's got my vote.

I know it's not going to happen. Neither Sanders nor Clinton would get a single thing through Congress. Nominees would be secretly blocked for months, and so on.

The correct answer is "It Depends"

If Bernie is the transformative figure I believe him to be, it's possible we could get a Democratic super majority in the Senate and simple majority in the House, maybe not in 2016 (or maybe, who knows) but possibly by 2018.

"None of the above" has won every Presidential election in my lifetime by a landslide. People don't vote when they don't believe candidates are really representing their interest. If these people do come out and vote Bernie I believe most will also vote for whoever Bernie endorses on the rest of their ballot.

I think a Bernie nomination will significantly increase the turnout of "none of the above" voters. A Hillary nomination will increase the turnout of Republican voters. But that's just my opinion man.

Because 6 months ago Bernie was polling at about 5%. Everyone said he had no chance to win. He would never go anywhere we were definitely going to be nominating Hillary. Now he is tied in Iowa. Bernie has remarkable powers of persuasion.

On Thu Jan 28, 2016, 08:50 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

What in the heck does that have to do with the price of rice in china
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1086280

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The poster responded to offered a reasonable polite answer and this one posts a personal attack in return. One shouldn't ask for opinions and turn around and get rude when it's given

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