2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI'm guessing Michael Moore is about to endorse Clinton
On Chris Hayes, the host asked him if he was going to make an endorsement. Moore said whoever the Dems nominate is going to be the next president, so people should vote for the person they believe in.
He said he campaigned for Bernie way back when in Vermont and has endorsed him consistently ever since,. He said Bernie's politics are his politics.
But then he said he's always had a crush on Hillary, and he really likes the Clinton's personally. They had him to the WH way back when and were very gracious.
Ultimately he did not express support for either, and said he would be releasing a written endorsement later in the week.
My hunch is that he's being cagey because an endorsement of Hillary would be counter-intuitive considering Moore's history and politics. And so, being a showman, instead of doing the expected thing, he'll support Clinton for whatever strange combination of reasons he comes up with.
Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but that was my intuition listening to him.
.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)RIP his Facebook page and Twitter account.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Just like how Sybrina Fulton was shredded by Bernie supporters for endorsing Hillary.
bigdarryl
(13,190 posts)With your rhetoric
Fearless
(18,421 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)gets down on his knees and begs Bernie not to run.
INdemo
(6,994 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)but wouldn't refer to his reasons as "whatever strange combination of reasons he comes up with."
Armstead
(47,803 posts)He supported Nader because he did not like the Democratic Party the Clintons left us with..... He is a longtime supporter of Bernie. He is full on supporter of universal healthcare and all of the issues Bernie has been pushing for, and he has been fighting corporations and Wall St. and all of the policies of Bill for years.....
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Perhaps, he learned something about how the real world works ... and resolved not to make that mistake , again.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)By 2000 Moore already had a whole lot of "real-world" experience behind him.
And Bernie is Not Nader and 2000 is not 2016. Situation is a whole lot different.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)but, the obvious reason is weak?
Okay!
Armstead
(47,803 posts)And in my opinion -- MY opinion -- the reasons would have to be strange. But, of course your mileage may vary.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)having learned from supporting Nader and getting President Bush?
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Like I said your mileage may vary, and for legitimate reasons. But comparing Bernie and Nader and 2000 to 2016 would be a strange reason in MY opinion. Moore's mileage may also vary. That's what makes horse racing.
Nader ran as a third party candidate. His campaign was obliviously only a symbolic "spoiler" campaign, as no one was under any illusion he would gain more than a small minority of the vote.
Whether or not you think Bernie is "electable" in the general is a matter of opinion. But he is NOT a symbolic spoiler. Both he and Clinton have a combination of positives and negatives in terms of electability,, and either is a gamble. But all of the metrics -- and the simple evidence of the level of support he has built from scratch in a few months -- show that he at least has the legitimate potential for that.
randome
(34,845 posts)He only became a Democrat to get mileage out of the Democratic party. It's what politicians do.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]
Armstead
(47,803 posts)No Republican should ever change their mind and become a Democrat?
No one who has been an independent has a right to decide to join the Democratic Partry?
All I can say is you'd better thank your Lucky Stars that Bernie decided to "get mileage" instead of doing a Nader and run as as an independent. IF all the support he has already generated were diverted into a spoiler campaign in the General, it wold guarantee a GOP victory.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)HRC is doing worse than Bernie in the polls. She is no more electable than anyone else anymore.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)After months of attacks from the right and left, and Bernie being virtually ignored.
Moore, might be smart enough to add that into his calculations.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)be surprised if he doesn't endorse Sanders
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)I really don't think he'd sacrifice his credibility.... in its totality.... by doing something that deranged.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)so I will be happy for him because he gets to be happy who ever wins the primary.
mattvermont
(646 posts)many years ago. I think he will endorse the Bern, although I do not care much either way.
I care only in that I think Moore is much more bernie than hillary, ideologically. As far as the impact
of endorsements...whatever.
toshiba783
(74 posts)The positive things he said about Hillary pale in comparison to his connection with Sanders.
Honestly though, could he try any harder to look more disheveled and unkempt?
Armstead
(47,803 posts)emulatorloo
(43,982 posts)and will actively support the Democratic nominee in the general who ever it is.
He talked about the importance of turnout and voter enthusiasm. Which is one of the things that suggested to me he's gonna endorse Bernie.
He talked about his "forbidden" crush on HRC, said some very positive things about her.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)SheilaT
(23,156 posts)So what in the world makes you think he'll endorse Clinton? Do you think he's decided to end his career in a horrible public way? Do you think, well, never mind.
I think you're wrong. here.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)he'd just have done the expected thing tonight if he were going to do the expected thiung
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Sanity Claws
(21,822 posts)Nothing he said indicates that he will endorse anyone while the nomination is still up for grabs.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)there's no citation to verify, but I trust Armstead's memory if not his/her prediction.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)when asked about an endorsement, Moore said he was writing a piece, for next week, and that piece would have his endorsement.
demwing
(16,916 posts)he has ALWAYS backed the 99% over the 1%. Even if he believes Clinton is a legitimate progressive, Bernie's brand is Moore's brand.
My guess is that Bernie gets the endorsement.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)The only people I have ever heard say what you said tilted pretty far to the right.
Do you not think he should be compensated for his work writing books and making movies and TV shows?
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)on his old discussion board.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)HubertHeaver
(2,520 posts)He endorses O'Malley for Vice-president.
ps. Spell check suggested Oakley for O'Malley.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)last1standing
(11,709 posts)I won't believe he would do that unless it actually happens. If it does happen, I'll know that he has let his fears overwhelm his hopes and dreams for a better nation.
That would be very sad.
in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)Then throw in her messes in Syria and Libya?
I think Michael is a Bernie guy.
JMCPO, of course.
PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE
I suppose HRH's operative she sent to Michigan could have talked to Michael and offered up some big money to help Flint, but then again, I don't see Michael being bought....ya just never know. Flint's hurting.
Lancero
(2,984 posts)The Big One, Sicko, and Capitalism: A Love Story would all point him to supporting Bernie as well.
Bowling for Columbine would likely point him to Clinton, though tbh that's up in the air given Clintons attacks circa 08 on Obama for his 'harsh' stance on gun control.
But yeah, Flint would be the wildcard for this.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)I know I won't vote for her, regardless. It is what it is. I'll still consider him a national treasure.
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)Just in case.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Fearless
(18,421 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Sounds to me like she just told MM to endorse Bernie.
DemocraticWing
(1,290 posts)So many endorsements get a press conference. Michael Moore, a really famous guy that has a big following on the left, is just gonna release a written statement? For one thing, for months he's been making noises in support of Bernie and skeptical of Hillary. He made a movie about how capitalism was bad, for god's sake.
Either there's less enthusiasm from Bernie's camp towards Michael than he expected, or he's quietly been behind Hillary for a while and wanted to keep quiet so as not to alienate anybody. If it's the latter, endorsing Hillary now would say he thinks Bernie has a real shot at the nomination but he's terrified of him being the nominee. Supposedly Elizabeth Warren is making a similar calculation.
I think Moore is free to endorse whoever he wants though. If he thinks Hillary is the best candidate, I will read his case for her candidacy and politely disagree. My respect for him (which is mostly based on finding the film Canadian Bacon incredibly funny) will remain unchanged.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Twitter followers, that will ricochet all over the media. In addition to not having a live press conference, he will not be sending this endorsement out via Western Union Telegram, carrier pigeon nor will the town criers be sent forth.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)then the world is actually upside down, and i'm made of potatoes.
Response to Armstead (Original post)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Matariki
(18,775 posts)and reasons to see either of them win.
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)steve2470
(37,457 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Michael Moore ?@MMFlint 24h24 hours ago
Young people know BS instantly. They have the best truth sniffer. Bernie just lays it all out, and that is refreshing to youth.
Michael Moore ?@MMFlint Jan 17
Hillary preying on people's fears about losing a health care fight to the Republicans instead of sounding like a leader willing to do battle
Michael Moore ?@MMFlint Jan 17
Hillary is against single payer universal health care. That's the simple truth. She supports Wall Street's position to protect insurance co.
I'll add that I first met Bill and Hillary through entertainment mutual friends back before he was even nominee, I also like Hillary personally she has a fantastic sense of humor and she actually listens to other people. Bill is very talented and charming but I'd rather sit and chat with her. But she's against universal health care. She spent 17 years yammering against my right to marry based on the sanctity of her marriage and the religion that created that marriage. She voted for the Iraq War and the Patriot Act.