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Beacool

(30,247 posts)
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:08 PM Jan 2016

Hillary Rodham Clinton Sounds Like A Realist – Not A Republican

By Rmuse
January, 19th, 2016

Reality is often difficult to embrace for some people and it is curious why seemingly intelligent people continue gravitating towards fantasy. The reality in America today is that one side of the political spectrum cannot comprehend that they are not in charge, have little hope of being in charge, and yet believe one man will put them in charge and transform Republicans into a compassionate, caring, and socially conscious political party. This is in spite of a solid six years of Republican barbarism targeting the American people and a steady increase in their dominance in state legislatures and Congress. All the while, a segment on the left are dead certain that with the election of their chosen candidate, Republicans will magically self-transform into raging liberals and give their undivided support to what many, many Americans regard as ‘socialistic’ policies; this segment of the left are the EmoProgs.

Yesterday, a particular point of contention between Democrats running for the presidential nomination prompted neo-Democrat candidate Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) to claim that former Senator and Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton was “sounding like a Republican” because she failed to support his monumental healthcare overhaul. So it has come to the point that, like every Republican, evangelical, and tea party conservative is wont to do, not supporting a policy is “sounding like the opposition.” It is a troublesome practice Mr. Sanders is prone to employ and nearly as despicable as accusing Democrats of endorsing the Koch brothers when they ask the Sanders campaign to receive fewer email requests for donations.

What has Senator Sanders upset with Clinton is because she said her healthcare position is strengthening “Obamacare” and bringing down costs as opposed to Senator Sanders’ “Medicare-for-all that will raise health care costs for average Americans;” something Senator Sanders said is just plain wrong. However, he also said that “Sometimes where the discussion becomes really absurd is that we will increase Medicare premiums, that is true. Yes, there will be Medicare premiums, it’s not free, but we are doing away with all private health insurance costs.” Now, forget that Medicare premiums will be increased under the “single payer” plan because “it’s not free;” that is obvious. But doing away with all private health insurance costs is a fantasy unless Republicans suddenly vanish off the Earth.

http://www.politicususa.com/2016/01/19/hillary-rodham-clinton-sounds-realist-republican.html


57 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Hillary Rodham Clinton Sounds Like A Realist – Not A Republican (Original Post) Beacool Jan 2016 OP
Hillary Clinton: No We Can't!! HerbChestnut Jan 2016 #1
Bernie Sanders: Yes, we can have a pony. Beacool Jan 2016 #6
How'd that angle work back in 2008? morningfog Jan 2016 #21
Why do Hillary & supporters HATE PONIES? John Poet Jan 2016 #40
No, she can't Ferd Berfel Jan 2016 #29
YES, Hillary DOES sound a little like a Republican-- John Poet Jan 2016 #39
being a realist is recognizing the documented fact that most of the country doesn't like her Bread and Circus Jan 2016 #2
Yeah.... MrWendel Jan 2016 #4
I said Country... as in polls show she has high net unfavorables. Bread and Circus Jan 2016 #8
Yes, it does. Her lead has plummeted from some 30+ points to around 12. morningfog Jan 2016 #25
Polls of only "likely Democratic voters" i.e. Democrats who have voted in most elections 99th_Monkey Jan 2016 #38
It's a sure sign that someone doesn't have an intellectual retort when they hit low. Beacool Jan 2016 #7
if you can't accept reality that is your problem Bread and Circus Jan 2016 #12
Nope, no change. Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #3
Nice poster. Beacool Jan 2016 #11
Well, too often she says yes. Broward Jan 2016 #42
DU rec...nt SidDithers Jan 2016 #5
Written by a proponent of Third Way ideology mmonk Jan 2016 #9
She sounds like an out of touch, dishonest, power-hungry tool of Wall Street to me... Indepatriot Jan 2016 #10
Sanders sounds like an out of touch throwback to the 60s. Beacool Jan 2016 #13
I don't think he believes his plan could be accomplished KingFlorez Jan 2016 #18
When all else fails, resort to hippie bashing. hobbit709 Jan 2016 #47
It's not "hippie bashing". Beacool Jan 2016 #48
And water isn't wet. hobbit709 Jan 2016 #50
Strengthening the Affordable Care Act, Obamacare, guillaumeb Jan 2016 #14
Based on what factual evidence do some of you think that future elections will bring so many Beacool Jan 2016 #17
I prefer hope to defeatism. How about you? guillaumeb Jan 2016 #20
I prefer a president who is effective and can accomplish most of her agenda. Beacool Jan 2016 #28
Which refers back to your statement: guillaumeb Jan 2016 #34
We've been fighting this battle for 80 years. jeff47 Jan 2016 #22
I think the assumption is that Sanders could do things be executive order KingFlorez Jan 2016 #23
No, the faulty assumption you are making is that Sanders or his supporters jeff47 Jan 2016 #27
It's really a moot point KingFlorez Jan 2016 #15
I'll tell you in one word what I see happening if Sanders becomes president: Gridlock. Beacool Jan 2016 #26
And Clinton would not face gridlock because........... jeff47 Jan 2016 #31
I think Hillary and the GOP congress could probably agree on John Poet Jan 2016 #41
Beacool, I respect you, but what makes you think Hillary will get things done? Nedsdag Jan 2016 #43
What I see here is the same mindset that I see in those who support Trump. Beacool Jan 2016 #46
So....no idea how she actually get through gridlock. jeff47 Jan 2016 #54
Clinton's new slogan, sure to be a hit with Millennials: jeff47 Jan 2016 #16
Yup pinebox Jan 2016 #19
It is a truly inspiring slogan: No we cannot sadoldgirl Jan 2016 #24
Must be a typo should read 'defeatist' bowens43 Jan 2016 #30
Deluded into still believing it's still possible to salvage Democracy, Liberty & Justice in the USA 99th_Monkey Jan 2016 #32
The issue I have rsexaminer Jan 2016 #33
They wouldn't work with her. jeff47 Jan 2016 #35
actually she sounds a LOT like a republican. And with good reason Doctor_J Jan 2016 #36
Realism -- We're all gonna die and the Earth will eventually explode. So Nothing Matters, ultimately Armstead Jan 2016 #37
Realist has a conservative bias whereas reality has a liberal bias mmonk Jan 2016 #44
No, she's pragmatic. Haven't you heard? Punkingal Jan 2016 #45
Hillary's a realist and not republican like???? UglyGreed Jan 2016 #49
LOL. Love it azmom Jan 2016 #55
No she sounds like a corporate shill. 2pooped2pop Jan 2016 #51
Glad to see the "97% like Bernie" meme is done Bernin4U Jan 2016 #52
Not just a downer HassleCat Jan 2016 #53
You have confused Defeatism with Realism. Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #56
Hillary Clinton is the most qualified candidate in the field Gothmog Jan 2016 #57
 

John Poet

(2,510 posts)
40. Why do Hillary & supporters HATE PONIES?
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:30 PM
Jan 2016

[IMG][/IMG]

Do ya'll hate kittens and puppies too?
Or just anything warm and furry?

 

John Poet

(2,510 posts)
39. YES, Hillary DOES sound a little like a Republican--
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:28 PM
Jan 2016

the candidate of 'no we can't' and the 'party of no' in congress
would probably get along splendidly!

[IMG][/IMG]

Bread and Circus

(9,454 posts)
8. I said Country... as in polls show she has high net unfavorables.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:16 PM
Jan 2016

Learn the difference between "the Country" and "the Democratic Party"

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
38. Polls of only "likely Democratic voters" i.e. Democrats who have voted in most elections
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:24 PM
Jan 2016

THAT ^ is NOT "the country" it's a small percentage of Americans.

Hell, only 29% of the population are Democrats, while 44% are Independents.

So of that 29%, I'd guess that only half of them qualify to participate in any of these
polling numbers we are seeing, and this of course is sans any online polls.

 

Indepatriot

(1,253 posts)
10. She sounds like an out of touch, dishonest, power-hungry tool of Wall Street to me...
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:17 PM
Jan 2016

Oh, and did I mention Shapeshifter?...

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
13. Sanders sounds like an out of touch throwback to the 60s.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:20 PM
Jan 2016

If single payer wasn't passed in a much more liberal era, do any of you truly think that it will pass now?????

KingFlorez

(12,689 posts)
18. I don't think he believes his plan could be accomplished
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:25 PM
Jan 2016

He's more about making statements than anything else.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
14. Strengthening the Affordable Care Act, Obamacare,
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:20 PM
Jan 2016

will only strengthen the insurance and pharmaceutical industry. Costs for drugs will still go up far out of proportion to financial need, millions of people will still find it difficult to afford healthcare.

What every other western democracy has found is that only universal, single payer systems remove the profit motive from this equation.

To those who say that nothing can be done with a GOP controlled Congress, you are correct. But add one word to that sentence.
Nothing can be done now with a GOP controlled Congress, but there is an election in 2016, and one in 2018. People can vote for real change, or a continuation of the same system with cosmetic changes.

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
17. Based on what factual evidence do some of you think that future elections will bring so many
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:24 PM
Jan 2016

liberals to Congress that Democrats will have the huge majority that they would need to pass a single payer plan that would expand Medicare to all and that would dismantle all private insurance companies?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
20. I prefer hope to defeatism. How about you?
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:29 PM
Jan 2016

Rather than console ourselves that the country received the best that could be accomplished under the circumstances, why not work to change minds and hearts?

It worked for marriage equality, and Civil Rights.

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
28. I prefer a president who is effective and can accomplish most of her agenda.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:34 PM
Jan 2016

Pie in the sky is not policy.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
34. Which refers back to your statement:
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:48 PM
Jan 2016

Absent a truly large turnout that changes Congress, even one chamber, how will any genuinely Democratic agenda get accomplished in the face of GOP obstruction? The GOP ferociously obstructed William Clinton and Barack Obama. Neither was truly radical or progressive, but each was opposed.

So where does "effective" and "accomplish" fit in this narrative? Or, dare I say it, "inspiring"?

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
22. We've been fighting this battle for 80 years.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:30 PM
Jan 2016

We are not going to give up just because we can not win it in the next two years.

KingFlorez

(12,689 posts)
23. I think the assumption is that Sanders could do things be executive order
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:30 PM
Jan 2016

Not realistic, but I think that is the assumption his supporters have.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
27. No, the faulty assumption you are making is that Sanders or his supporters
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:34 PM
Jan 2016

believe his plans can be enacted in the short run.

We aren't the morons you pretend we are.

We are well aware that his plans are not going to pass any time soon. Sanders, and these plans, are step 1. We know it will take a long time to get to step 247.

Single-payer healthcare is a battle we have been fighting for 80 years. We are well aware that it will not be won quickly.

KingFlorez

(12,689 posts)
15. It's really a moot point
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:22 PM
Jan 2016

There aren't enough votes in Congress to pass single payer. If Sanders did become President and was unable to pass single payer, his supporters would turn into haters in a minute.

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
26. I'll tell you in one word what I see happening if Sanders becomes president: Gridlock.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:32 PM
Jan 2016

Obama, a more centrist and open to compromise Democrat, was beaten over the head over and over by the Republicans in Congress. Sanders is more Left leaning than Obama and less likely to be open to compromise. What exactly will he get accomplished? I find it amusing when I read here that Sanders has no enemies in Congress, but they fail to mention that he also doesn't have that many allies. Congressional endorsements by his Democratic colleagues have been overwhelmingly in Hillary's favor. Which is understandable since she is an actual Democrat. He just joined the party recently.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
31. And Clinton would not face gridlock because...........
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:38 PM
Jan 2016

Her accomplishment in the Senate was renaming a post office. You are now claiming she will get the Republicans to stop their attempts to repeal the ACA, and get them to expand it. To call that claim delusional is an insult to those with delusions.

There will be gridlock no matter who is elected.

 

John Poet

(2,510 posts)
41. I think Hillary and the GOP congress could probably agree on
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:34 PM
Jan 2016

where they were going to start the next war.......


Nedsdag

(2,437 posts)
43. Beacool, I respect you, but what makes you think Hillary will get things done?
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:37 PM
Jan 2016

Even if she wins and bring in a minuscule amount of Democrats into Congress, there will still be a Republican run House of Representatives and Senate. There will still be gridlock either way.

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
46. What I see here is the same mindset that I see in those who support Trump.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 07:47 PM
Jan 2016

It's the burn down the house to save it attitude abut politics. Sanders beliefs may be lofty, but are just as improbable as Trump's bombastic proclamations that serve to rile his supporters. Trump is a carnival barker while Sanders is authentic in his beliefs, but either way, neither are basing their policies in the reality on the ground.

I think that Sanders is a decent man who strongly believes that the system works against people, but it's what he proposes that I find problematic. As much as it's hard for his supporters to face, single payer will not pass through Congress in the near future or in years to come. The 60s were the time to attempt to pass that type of legislature, not now. This is a more conservative country than it was then. Most Republicans of that era couldn't get elected today. A while ago, both McCain and Dole made that point. Heck, Nixon would be too liberal for the current Republican party.

Why I think that Hillary would be more effective is that she would attempt to make piecemeal changes. Yes, that would anger the Left, but incremental changes is how we got most entitlements through Congress. She proved very good in the Senate at reaching out to the other side and working with them when they found common ground. She was one of the most sought after senators to co-sponsor bills. She has always said that she prefers to be a "work horse" and not a "show horse". She does her homework and knows the details about even the most obscure pieces of legislation. As SOS, dignitaries of the countries she visited were surprised at her depth of knowledge of their countries' issues. I think that a Hillary presidency would continue to advance Democratic goals.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
54. So....no idea how she actually get through gridlock.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 10:35 PM
Jan 2016
Why I think that Hillary would be more effective is that she would attempt to make piecemeal changes. Yes, that would anger the Left, but incremental changes is how we got most entitlements through Congress.

And Republicans would vote for those piecemeal changes because............

sadoldgirl

(3,431 posts)
24. It is a truly inspiring slogan: No we cannot
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:30 PM
Jan 2016

That kind of optimism is just what the voters want to hear!

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
32. Deluded into still believing it's still possible to salvage Democracy, Liberty & Justice in the USA
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:40 PM
Jan 2016

Let the hit pieces come, we knew they would eventually. Fuck that shit.

Yes we still can!!!

I refuse to yield to a corrupt Democratic Party Establishment,

I refuse to be ok with lying, deceptive, weathervane-driven candidates in a Democratic Primary,

I refuse to be intimidated by insinuations of self-proclaimed, preordained "inevitability",

I choose to steadfastly support the candidate who exudes authenticity, honesty and who's willing to
fight tooth-and-nail for a future we can believe in, a future to leave my children and grandchildren,
a future built with visionary hard-work hell-bent on creating the change needed to salvage & restore
Democracy, justice and Liberty for all in America.

rsexaminer

(321 posts)
33. The issue I have
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:47 PM
Jan 2016

My issue is when people say Hillary can work better with Republicans than Bernie. But if the GOP HATE her like they say, why would anyone thing they will work with her?

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
35. They wouldn't work with her.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:50 PM
Jan 2016

It's just all they can come up with to oppose proposals from the Sanders campaign.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
37. Realism -- We're all gonna die and the Earth will eventually explode. So Nothing Matters, ultimately
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:09 PM
Jan 2016

Let's just go for it and get totally nihilistic.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
56. You have confused Defeatism with Realism.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 11:44 PM
Jan 2016

The reality is that we need to move towards a single payer system. Any other point of view is simply wrong.


Maybe we won't get there for decades, but choosing to simply stop moving toward that goal is defeatism, not realism.


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