Under President Sanders, public colleges won't have fancy dormitories and giant football stadiums

[apples and oranges]

or high paid football coaches. Is that enough to make tuition free and will Americans be receptive to such a dramatic shift? Has he mentioned any specifics on what the salary cap for professors and coaches would be?

One of the reasons college is so prohibitively expensive is that “some colleges and universities that are spending a huge amount of money on fancy dormitories and on giant football stadiums,” Senator Bernie Sanders said during Saturday night’s Democratic debate in Manchester, N.H. “Maybe we should focus on quality education with well-paid faculty members.

http://jobs.aol.com/videos/advice/sanders-cites-a-dormitories-and-a-stadiums-as-hurting-afford/519352715/

[LWolf]

1. You mean institutions of education

would be about learning, not about feeding the sports industry?

Horrors.

[apples and oranges]

6. I think colleges can do both.

[LWolf]

9. Maybe.

I don't know that they should.

While I understand the national, the human love of competition, and I think sports is a great outlet for our aggressive and competitive natures, I don't know if education and sports should be linked.

In my ideal world, and yes, I'm a defiant and stubborn idealist, people value education for the sake of learning. I guess if I thought that ideal were achieved, it wouldn't bother me to blend the two. Then again, that same defiant idealist tells me that we should celebrate human physical and artistic abilities, along with intellect, because we value them intrinsically as well, not because we're going to make a profit off of them.

So maybe my pov really goes back to the difference between intrinsic and extrinsic motivators, and my preference for the intrinsic.

[Vattel]

23. Very nicely said

[daleanime]

32. +1

[Ed Suspicious]

27. NFL needs its scout teams.

[yeoman6987]

29. Football pays for volleyball, golf, tennis and other sports

As far as fancy dorms....stupid! But that train as left the station. These students want their balconies, mini suites, quartz countertops, and organic food in the cafeteria. I can't imagine thes going backwards. But who knows.

[lumberjack_jeff]

46. Maybe they ought to pay for books. Just sayin' n/t

[liberal N proud]

2. Does he not realize that those giant football stadiums are usually paid for by ticket sales

and advertising?

[HassleCat]

10. I hope you're kidding

Most colleges and universities lose money on their sports programs. Big money.

[yeoman6987]

30. Yeah right.

Most sports would be gone if not for football.

[HassleCat]

33. That's true, but not the way you think

The other sports exist mainly to satisfy legal requirements that colleges spend equal money on men's and women's sports. This costs a lot of money where there is a multi-million dollar football program. Of course, most schools lose money on football, too, because they can't get on television. Semi-professional college sports are hugely expensive, and only a few schools can make money. The rest are left to their unrealistic dreams and wasted dollars.

[yeoman6987]

34. Everything you typed is true.

We'll see what Bernie can do.

[Bradical79]

18. Most are not.

What are you talking about?

[jonno99]

3. Interesting - I wonder how do they do it in Europe. nt

Last edited Wed Jan 20, 2016, 12:45 PM - Edit history (1)

[apples and oranges]

4. They don't have college sports in Europe?

[jonno99]

5. I don't know - that's why I'm asking...nt

[coyote]

8. I can only speak for Germany.

Generally speaking, you just pay for a dorm or a place to live plus living expenses such as food. Education is free. There is no collegiate sports program. If there is, then it would be tiny compared to US sports program. Normally you play sports in a local clubs, but there is no large organized sports in university.

[jonno99]

13. Sounds like a very practical system - thank you for the information. nt

[emulatorloo]

7. At most public universities, donors fund football stadiums and coaches

Donor money and ticket sales.

Fans spend money in the town and buy shirts etc from the University.

[Live and Learn]

11. And?? I really don't understand your point. You think fancy dormitories and stadiums are important?

I don't.

[apples and oranges]

19. I think that's up to students and alumni to decide

Not Bernie.

[Live and Learn]

25. Fine, they can do that at private colleges. Public colleges belong to the voters. nt

[NCTraveler]

12. Sanders doesn't stand a chance on that one.

While sport programs at many colleges need direction, they provide an amazing service and are a huge part of the educational process. Just one more area where Sanders reluctance to talk to experts makes him sound just like that; someone not willing to talk to experts.

[Kentonio]

41. "a huge part of the educational process"

Explain how please.

[Fawke Em]

14. This is an off-hand comment.

Some of the bigger land grants actually EARN money from their sports programs, but the issue he's trying to point out is that many state colleges spend more on "ritzing up" and flushing good money after bad than on education.

I'm sure there is some sort of happy medium for this.

Look, most of the schools in the SEC, for example, are public colleges (notable exception: Vanderbilt) and many of them earn money from their sports programs and those programs then donate back to the school. I doubt he - or anyone else - would cut programs that earn money.

Besides, Sanders WAS a student athlete. He understands the need for extracurricular activities.

[apples and oranges]

21. Cut programs that aren't earning money... at the moment

I don't think that will go over well.

[Ron Green]

15. A football stadium: 22 men in desperate need of rest, and

50,000 people in desperate need of exercise.

[blue neen]

16. The fancy dorms and giant stadiums are already there.

I agree with Bernie that the focus should be on education, but it's too late at many schools.

[Bradical79]

17. I don't see why that would go away

(also I'm not sure what salary capping professors would have to do with anything?)

For some schools, trying to run these massive programs that compete with schools like Ohio State is a serious drain on resources leading to higher tuition and fees. Some schools are going to have to tone it down or find alternative methods of funding for this stuff.

[Beacool]

20. Fancy dormitories????

I don't recall any of them ever being "fancy". Crowded and messy? Yes. Fancy? Nope.

[yeoman6987]

31. Clearly you haven't been in school in awhile.

[HassleCat]

35. He may have been talking about athletic dorms

Some schools provide their athletes with luxury dorms, gourmet food, cars, money, etc.

[alcibiades_mystery]

43. Hahahaha

Oh Lord.

[HassleCat]

44. Not sure why that's funny.

It's about as hilarious as the football coach making twice as much money as the university president.

[Beacool]

45. OK, that may be so.

Most colleges' student dorms can't be characterized as fancy. Heck, even the dorms in my boarding school days weren't really fancy.

[one_voice]

22. huh..

Michigan, Florida, Florida St, Ohio, etc. all the majors can run the entire university from football revenue. Seems those high priced coaches pay for themselves. Oregon profits were higher than some NFL teams.

That doesn't seem to be the issue. Maybe it's all those people sitting in offices making too much money...

[Vattel]

24. Sanders is right. The problem is not having sports programs. The problem is wasteful spending

by those programs. For good info on this, see http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/sports/wp/2015/11/23/running-up-the-bills/

[Eric J in MN]

26. States can still pay for that. They just can't

...use that spending to get federal matching funds, or spend federal matching funds on that.

[RKP5637]

28. Yep!!! "... we should focus on quality education with well-paid faculty members." n/t

[apples and oranges]

38. Fine. But that's a lot to accomplish in 4 years

Breaking up the banks, putting insurers out of business, building a new healthcare system from scratch, restructuring public colleges (including ending college sports), and God knows what else.

[Kentonio]

42. True

But government is big, and it'd be nice to have lots of positive initiatives coming through rather than a reliance on a few big headline items. They might not all make it, but I love that he has a lot of good ideas.

[RKP5637]

49. It could be a start, but I seriously don't see how all of this is going to happen very quickly.

It's a tall order IMO. Plus, he has to get a lot of people to agree with him, and congress is filled with obstructionists, as well as states at many levels.

[SheilaT]

36. I have more than once read that the football programs

do not pay for themselves, let alone produce revenue for any other aspect of the universities.

Once you add up the cost of the salaries of the coaches, the trainers, the cost of equipment, the cost of the scholarships, the cost of the travel to away games, it's a fuck of a lot of money.

The other myth is that alums donate because of winning football programs. Wanna guess which schools have the highest percentage of graduates who donate? Hint: Not a single school in the top ten is a football powerhouse.



Princeton University (NJ) 62.9%
Thomas Aquinas College (CA) 58.3%
Williams College (MA) 56.9%
Florida College 54.4%
Bowdoin College (ME) 54.2%
Middlebury College (VT) 53%
Davidson College (NC) 52.9%
Wellesley College (MA) 51.4%
Carleton College (MN) 50.6%
Amherst College (MA) 49.2%

[Beacool]

47. Aren't all of those private colleges?

I think Sanders is referring to state universities.

[SheilaT]

48. Yes, they are.

But the claim is constantly made about how generously alums of schools with winning football programs donate. The truth is, while donations occur, it's not on the scale that the Universities would like us to believe.

My younger son went to a school in Division I, and during the four years he was there he and his classmates became angrier and angrier about how the stadium was rebuilt, reducing the number of seats, and the student seating got pushed into a really crappy section. It did not endear the ordinary students to the school's athletic program.

Anyway, the claim is constantly made about how football makes money for the schools, but that is probably more myth than anything. If the schools were honest they'd pay their athletes, but they don't. And isn't it more than a little bit sad that schools are better known for their winning football or basketball teams than for the Nobel Prize winners they might have produced?

[GeorgeGist]

37. Football, as we know it may become extinct in the not too distant future ...

because parents will refuse to allow their children to play it.

[apples and oranges]

39. I agree

[quickesst]

40. Thank goodness...

... We won't have to worry about that. WOO PIG!! RAZORBACKS!!!