Aren't AA Dems slightly sickened by Hillary's "cleaving" to Obama tonight, after 2008?

[grasswire]

David Axelrod and others noted with some bitterness her "wrapping herself in Obama" tonight --- ostensibly to trade on the Obama coalition now, but ignoring the fact that in 2008, the Clinton campaign bitterly, bitterly attacked Obama and his policies.

Isn't that fairly offensive to those who adore Obama?

[question everything]

1. No. And David Axelrod really should not comment about Hillary campaign (nt)

[JRLeft]

2. Some are but most got over it, when she served as his SOS.

[demmiblue]

3. Nothing good will come of this OP. n/t

[enid602]

4. subtle

I think they might be a bit pissed after Bernie not so subtly hinted that they will eventually 'get it,' just like everyone else.

[JRLeft]

47. Wrong

[onecaliberal]

5. Out in the open pandering. I don't believe the polls that say the black vote is for hillary.

[grasswire]

8. yes, it was called "pandering" on CNN nt

[onecaliberal]

13. Nice!

[RandySF]

6. 'Stockholm Syndrome' again?

[hrmjustin]

7. How dare she defend the president! Damn her!

[shiriu]

11. No one attacked Obama, no one believes her.

[hrmjustin]

14. Sorry but what she said about Sanders is true.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

122. Nothing's free anymore, didn't anyone tell you? Proof is required after a week of lies.

Lying has consequences, and one of the big ones is that most people don't consider her to be trustworthy. So her claims mean nothing to me. I require proof.

[MrWendel]

20. Step out of the bubble...

and try the magical Google machine.

[senz]

24. No, she was trying to pit Bernie against Obama

and it was phony. Bernie set her straight very politely. I would not be surprised if Obama was rolling his eyes watching her pull that.

[hrmjustin]

27. No he did not. He called for Obama to be primaried.

Good luck selling that.

[senz]

42. Would you have a link for that?

I never heard about that at the time. I did hear rumors of Clinton putting out feelers in 2011 for her own 2012 challenge to Obama.

[hrmjustin]

44. Here you go.

http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/07/22/277124/bernie-sanders-primary-obama/

[senz]

65. Thank you. I just read it. Did you read it?

If you did read it, did you understand it?

It says that Bernie, in a conversation with a caller on the Thom Hartmann program, was responding to concerns about Obama making huge cuts to Social Security and other social programs by suggesting that a primary challenge from the left could be a means of countering the forces that were pushing Obama to the right.

He was not making a big call for a primary challenge, he was considering it as means of getting though to Obama.

So don't you dare try to make it into something it wasn't. I say this as someone who spent much of 2011 and all of 2012, up to the election, volunteering several days a week for OFA, as well as giving money in three-figure amounts to the Obama campaign.

[hrmjustin]

68. Follow your own advice and good bye!

[Luminous Animal]

69. The commenter has been provided with the fact multiple times. He doesn't care.

Last edited Mon Jan 18, 2016, 09:25 AM - Edit history (1)

[hrmjustin]

73. You don't know a damn thing about me.

I don't give into the peer pressure here and it bothers you.

You don't like me then ignore me but don't you dare say I don't care because I do.

Make up stuff about someone else.

[libdem4life]

197. Your words in print say it all. Outvoted.

[senz]

75. It's difficult to argue meaningfully with those who resist thought.

Some people just want empty talking points that are not based in fact. I guess all we can do is set the record straight over and over again.

[hrmjustin]

77. Have the courage to call me an idiot to my face.

I much rather you be upfront about it then what you are doing now.

[senz]

83. Why would I do that? I don't think you're an idiot.

I was disappointed that you didn't want to discuss the point I was trying to make, but that's your choice.

Take it easy. You're okay.

[treestar]

116. O FFS own up to the fact he called for a primary challenger

He did it. He has to live with it.

[mythology]

219. As opposed to the entirely unsubstantiated rumors you brought up?

You were given a cite and then parsed it to give the benefit of the doubt to your candidate after referencing so vague rumor that Clinton might have considered doing something behind the scenes and condemn Clinton for that.

[Jarqui]

59. Yes but it was laced with typical Clinton dishonest deception

Sanders suggested Obama endure a primary against someone to help pull him left some - so the party could benefit from a discussion on the issues with Dems - not trying to replace him as the candidate.

Hillary's spin, pandering to the SC black vote, could be taken by some that white Bernie tried to take the black president Obama (very popular with blacks) out.

Once again, our fearless chronic liar misled the folks with her spin.

[grasswire]

91. not according to Axelrod.

He mentioned something about it being a good idea. He didn't CALL FOR IT.

[Fawke Em]

9. AA Millennials on social media are telling her she's wrapped too tightly

in her #ObamaSnuggie.

[Segami]

12. LOL!

Can I buy one?.......

[azmom]

38. LOL

[WillyT]

205. That Would Make A Great PhotoShop !!!

[gwheezie]

10. Wasn't she his secretary of state

You might have missed it

[leveymg]

19. Yes, and after her disastrous term ended, he graciously accepted her resignation

Or, are we supposed to forget how it ended and what followed?

[gwheezie]

21. Most cabinet members don't do both terms

Do you think he told her to quit?

[leveymg]

28. He gave her lots of room to leave.

She equivocated for months to see how events in Libya would play out. But, despite the very public hand holding, the truth that the policy failure of regime change belonged to her and Petraeus had already become clear.

[gwheezie]

40. Do you know how this works?

She wasn't elected to a term, he could have told her to leave at any time, he did it to other cabinet members. Unless you have some inside info, I assume he wanted her there. Otherwise you have no idea. Or do you think Hillary refused to leave and poor Obama said well that's it then I have no recourse.

[Beacool]

25. He asked her to remain for another year in the post

and SHE graciously refused.

[senz]

36. I seriously doubt that.

She was not a good secretary of state. Obama has a good secretary of state in John Kerry.

[Beacool]

57. You can doubt it all you want, it still doesn't make it a fact.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

94. The Clinton campaign no longer gets to talk in terms of "fact". They've told too many lies.

Lying carries consequences.

[leveymg]

37. Room to leave a dignified exit.

Neither of them would be well served by a visibly messy parting, especially as Libya regime change morphed into Syria civil war increasingly led by the well financed al Nusra and ISIS contingents funded by Qatar, the Saudis and Kuwait.

There was no putting the genie back, so no sense in squabbling publicly about the course of events. The only sensible thing for her to do was leave.

[Beacool]

58. As the daughter of a diplomat, who also delved in the field,

I'll tell you one thing: You have zero knowledge of what you're babbling about.

[Bluenorthwest]

108. That's great dialouge! What would you sound like without all that diplomatic skill?

zero knowledge and babbling, and that's diplomatic?

[JimDandy]

202. Our diplomatic corp must be in a state of disarray

if this is the kind of discourse their progeny engages in.

[treestar]

117. What was "disastrous"

about her time as SOS.

[leveymg]

187. Regime changes in Libya, Syria, and the establishment and spread of IS. But, you wouldn't know

about those places.

[kwassa]

186. did RT tell you that?

[leveymg]

189. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?

Same Red-baiting tactic, new century. A favorite among the totalitarian inclined. Congratulations, you're continuing a great tradition.

Would you like to continue to pretend that Hillary had no leading role in regime change across the Mideast and that ended badly? Or, do you think the policy of Hillary and Petraeus in Libya and Syria were great successes for democracy and humanity?

[kwassa]

190. Critical thinking skills.

Those that quote propaganda outlets as news are lacking in that category.

George W. Bush created the losing strategy, not Hillary. History is your friend. So are facts.

[leveymg]

206. Iraq was Bush's contribution. Libya and Syria are Clinton and Petraeus projects

Last edited Tue Jan 19, 2016, 03:52 PM - Edit history (1)

As is the ongoing spread of the Islamic State. It's called blowback, and the Republicans are not alone in conjuring it up on behalf of the Neocons. Hillary is the leading Neocon within the Democratic Party, and thus the most dangerous of all.

More than anyone else, she embodies that tradition of folly and death.

[kwassa]

217. No, they are Obama projects. It is his foreign policy.

and if you think Hillary is a neocon, you are delusional.

but then, you seem to believe propaganda outlets ....

[leveymg]

218. No, HRC and Petraeus championed the policy, which Obama cut off.

Yes, I blame her for being an author and a principal backer of a failed policy with catastrophic results. She was a leading advocate, not just an instrument of policies of regime change in Libya and Syria.

As a result of the failure of this policy that he had most aggressively pursued, Petraeus was fired and a few months later the President graciously accepted the resignation of the Secretary of State. It was Obama who restrained and ultimately brought this operation to a halt. The conflict within the Administration and the roles taken by Clinton and the other principals were all described in a series of articles in the WSJ and NYT. I'll dig out the links for you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/08/us/politics/panetta-speaks-to-senate-panel-on-benghazi-attack.html?_r=0
deep divisions over what to do about one of those issues — the rising violence in Syria — spilled into public view for the first time in a blunt exchange between Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, and the leaders of the Pentagon.

Testifying before the Senate Armed Services Committee, Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta acknowledged that he and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, had supported a plan last year to arm carefully vetted Syrian rebels. But it was ultimately vetoed by the White House, Mr. Panetta said, although it was developed by David H. Petraeus, the C.I.A. director at the time, and backed by Hillary Rodham Clinton, then the secretary of state.

(. . .)

Neither Mr. Panetta nor General Dempsey explained why President Obama did not heed their recommendation. But senior American officials have said that the White House was worried about the risks of becoming more deeply involved in the Syria crisis, including the possibility that weapons could fall into the wrong hands. And with Mr. Obama in the middle of a re-election campaign, the White House rebuffed the plan, a decision that Mr. Panetta says he now accepts.

With the exception of General Dempsey, the officials who favored arming the rebels have either left the administration or, as in Mr. Panetta’s case, are about to depart. Given that turnover, it is perhaps not surprising that the details of the debate — an illustration of the degree that foreign policy decisions have been centralized in the White House — are surfacing only now. A White House spokesman declined to comment on Thursday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/us/politics/in-behind-scene-blows-and-triumphs-sense-of-clinton-future.html WASHINGTON — Last summer, as the fighting in Syria raged and questions about the United States’ inaction grew, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton conferred privately with David H. Petraeus, the director of the C.I.A. The two officials were joining forces on a plan to arm the Syrian resistance.

The idea was to vet the rebel groups and train fighters, who would be supplied with weapons. The plan had risks, but it also offered the potential reward of creating Syrian allies with whom the United States could work, both during the conflict and after President Bashar al-Assad’s eventual removal.

Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Petraeus presented the proposal to the White House, according to administration officials. But with the White House worried about the risks, and with President Obama in the midst of a re-election bid, they were rebuffed.

( . . .)

The disclosures about Mrs. Clinton’s behind-the-scenes role in Syria and Myanmar — one a setback, the other a success — offer a window into her time as a member of Mr. Obama’s cabinet. They may also be a guide to her thinking as she ponders a future run for the presidency with favorability ratings that are the highest of her career, even after her last months at the State Department were marred by the deadly attack on the American Mission in Benghazi, Libya.

“Secretary Clinton has dramatically changed the face of U.S. foreign policy globally for the good,” said Richard L. Armitage, deputy secretary of state during the George W. Bush administration. “But I wish she had been unleashed more by the White House.”

(. . .)

After Britain and France argued for intervening to defend Libya’s rebels against Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, Mrs. Clinton played an important role in mobilizing a broad international coalition and persuading the White House to join the NATO-led operation.

But it was Syria that proved to be the most difficult test. As that country descended into civil war, the administration provided humanitarian aid to the growing flood of refugees, pushed for sanctions and sought to organize the political opposition. The United States lagged France, Britain and Persian Gulf states in recognizing that opposition as the legitimate representative of the Syria people, but by December, Mr. Obama had taken that step.

Still, rebel fighters were clamoring for weapons and training. The White House has been reluctant to arm them for fear that it would draw the United States into the conflict and raise the risk of the weapons falling into the wrong hands. Rebel extremists affiliated with Al Qaeda had faced no such constraints in securing weapons from their backers.

When Mr. Petraeus was the commander of forces in Iraq and then-Senator Clinton was serving on the Senate Armed Services Committee and preparing for her 2008 presidential bid, she had all but called him a liar for trumpeting the military gains of the troop increase ordered by President Bush. But serving together in the Obama administration, they were allies when it came to Syria, as well as on the debate over how many troops to send to Afghanistan at the beginning of the administration.

Mr. Petraeus had a background in training foreign forces from his years in Iraq, and his C.I.A. job put him in charge of covert operations. The Americans already had experience in providing nonlethal assistance to some of the rebels.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/172774/obama-opposed-syria-war-plan-clinton-petraeus-panetta-gen-dempsey Let’s give the White House and President Obama, personally, credit for blocking the hawks in his administration from going to war in Syria.

Last week, we learned that Hillary Clinton and David Petraeus, now thankfully pursuing other opportunities and spending more time with their families, had cooked up a plan to arm and train the ragtag Syrian rebels, thus getting the United States directly involved in that horrible civil war.

Now we learn that Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta and General Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs—both of whom are about to join Clinton and Petraeus in the private sector—also backed the Clinton-Petraeus plan,

Who was against it? Obama.

Here’s how The New York Times reports the bombshell revelation, which emerged at a Senate Armed Service Committee hearing with Panetta and Dempsey, under questioning from the invariably pro-war John McCain:

Did the Pentagon, Mr. McCain continued, support the recommendation by Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Petraeus “that we provide weapons to the resistance in Syria? Did you support that?”

“We did,” Mr. Panetta said.

“You did support that,” Mr. McCain said.

“We did,” General Dempsey added.

Despite the formidable coalition of Panetta, Clinton, Petraeus, and Dempsey—and no doubt Susan Rice was in there punching, too—Obama nixed the idea.

[wendylaroux]

162. yes,and she did soooo well.

not really.

[Gothmog]

15. From 538

Nate and Harry Eaton were not upset http://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/nbc-democratic-debate-presidential-election-2016/

HARRY ENTEN 10:31 PM
Not really. What I do see, though, is Clinton clearly knows where her base is. She knows she needs black voters in her corner. That’s why she is wrapping herself in the Obama cloth. A lot of people think the Democratic base is exclusively white liberals; it’s not. It’s black Democrats. Unless Sanders can gain support among that group, this primary is over.

NATE SILVER 10:35 PM
More seriously — I agree with Harry that the candidates have been speaking mostly to their respective bases on the substance. So I’m wondering whether Sanders’s feistier demeanor tonight will play positively or negatively with the home audience.

Sanders will not be the nominee unless he expands his base and I do not think that Sanders did this. Attacking President Obama is not a good way to appeal to African American voters

[JRLeft]

48. He's already cut into her lead with POC.

[Gothmog]

55. Really-She is not ahead by more than two to one in the polling?

[JRLeft]

67. He was polling at 1%

[Gothmog]

96. So Hillary Clinton still leads Sander by more than two to one

thank you for this admission

[Gothmog]

222. New Poll Shows ‘Surging’ Sanders Losing Ground With the Voter Group He Needs Most

And Sanders is still not polling well with African American or Latino voters and so maybe he needs to change what he is doing http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/01/poll-sanders-gains-stop-short-of-minorities.html#

Team Sanders is certainly focused on the problem, with a variety of campaign efforts focused on minority voters in the works. The talking points they are putting out there, however, are less than convincing, as I learned as a guest on the public radio show "To the Point" yesterday, when I heard a Sanders supporter argue that an Iowa win would greatly boost Bernie's African-American support just like it did for Obama in South Carolina in 2008. The idea that Sanders's potential to win the black vote in South Carolina is analogous to that of the first African-American president does not pass the laugh test. Still, any early-state win for Sanders, even in exceptionally honkified Iowa and New Hampshire, will likely create some sort of generalized bounce. The question is how high, and how loyal minority voters prove to be to Hillary Clinton, her husband, and her implicit ally Barack Obama. It's worth remembering that she defeated Barack Obama handily among Latinos in 2008, and that Bill Clinton enjoyed robust support in both communities.

Monmouth University has a new national poll out that casts some fascinating, if very preliminary, light on this subject. Compared to its poll in December, Monmouth shows Sanders making pretty big gains: Clinton was up 59-to-26 last month, and only 52-to-37 now. But among black and Latino voters, Clinton has actually expanded her lead from 61-to-18 to 71-to-21. In other words, a legitimate "Sanders surge" nationally has coincided with a deterioration of his standing with the voters he will most need for a breakthrough after the first two contests of the primary season.

Sanders is actually losing ground with African American voters and Sanders' current tactics are not evidently working.

Sanders will not be the nominee unless he can expand his base of supporters

[Gothmog]

221. New Poll Shows ‘Surging’ Sanders Losing Ground With the Voter Group He Needs Most

And Sanders is still not polling well with African American or Latino voters http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/01/poll-sanders-gains-stop-short-of-minorities.html#

Team Sanders is certainly focused on the problem, with a variety of campaign efforts focused on minority voters in the works. The talking points they are putting out there, however, are less than convincing, as I learned as a guest on the public radio show "To the Point" yesterday, when I heard a Sanders supporter argue that an Iowa win would greatly boost Bernie's African-American support just like it did for Obama in South Carolina in 2008. The idea that Sanders's potential to win the black vote in South Carolina is analogous to that of the first African-American president does not pass the laugh test. Still, any early-state win for Sanders, even in exceptionally honkified Iowa and New Hampshire, will likely create some sort of generalized bounce. The question is how high, and how loyal minority voters prove to be to Hillary Clinton, her husband, and her implicit ally Barack Obama. It's worth remembering that she defeated Barack Obama handily among Latinos in 2008, and that Bill Clinton enjoyed robust support in both communities.

Monmouth University has a new national poll out that casts some fascinating, if very preliminary, light on this subject. Compared to its poll in December, Monmouth shows Sanders making pretty big gains: Clinton was up 59-to-26 last month, and only 52-to-37 now. But among black and Latino voters, Clinton has actually expanded her lead from 61-to-18 to 71-to-21. In other words, a legitimate "Sanders surge" nationally has coincided with a deterioration of his standing with the voters he will most need for a breakthrough after the first two contests of the primary season.

Sanders is actually losing ground with African American voters

[jfern]

89. Who cares what 538 thinks? They've been wrong about everything this primary.

[thereismore]

178. Who thinks AA are too dumb to see through her maneuver?

Hillary, that's who.

[Gothmog]

181. What are Sanders' polling numbers in South Carolina and other non-white states?

[thereismore]

182. Everybody knows. Let's see where they will be in 2 weeks ok?

[Truprogressive85]

16. Hell yes

Obama may have forgiven her but I have not

[senz]

29. I don't see how Michelle could forgive her.

That ugly racist stuff she said in 2008 against Michelle's husband would be hard to forget and hard to forgive.

[Truprogressive85]

34. I would love to a fly on the wall during the 08 campagin

Michelle doesn't put up with no kinda of Bull

[senz]

39. I know.

She's pretty easy to read and I appreciate that in a person. She's deep, strong, and passionate. Obama's lucky to have her, as are their daughters.

[nashville_brook]

17. remember in 2008 when hillary invoked the assassination of Robert Kennedy

for the reason why she wouldn't get out of the race in may...she said that lots of things could happen. Robert Kennedy was killed in june. by this time it was known that obama was receiving death threats, and the comment showed incredibly bad judgement.

[KingCharlemagne]

82. I had forgotten that snivelling little profile in cowardice

until just now. Right up there with "hard-working white folks" in its utter tone-
deafness.

Ugh, just ugh.

[nashville_brook]

201. ah, i had forgotten that one. yikes.

[thereismore]

179. Ay yay. Now I remember. Ugly! nt

[JI7]

18. what's offensive is those who trashed Obama for years suddenly now faking Concern over 2008

[Green Forest]

26. Yeah, right? Reading what many here wrote about Barack in 2007-2008 archives has been very instructive.

Whole lotta PUMAs faking Obama love now.

[JI7]

35. PUMAS were banned. many of those accused of being PUMAS right now actually supported Obama in 2008

so that doesn't make any sense.

[Green Forest]

97. There may have been an effort but it was not totally successful, according to my archive reading.

You should read through DU archives from 2007-2008 and through until 18 months ago. Very enlightening, indeed.

[treestar]

120. 2008 was long ago

Hillary supporters have long since supported Obama, since they started to work together when the contest was over.

[betsuni]

46. There's more flip-flopping than the deck of a fishing boat after a good haul.

[Number23]

79. Drop that mike, girl. Drop it.

[msanthrope]

86. You Better Believe It!!! nt

[DisgustipatedinCA]

104. What concern? I have no concern over 2008, but I'll damn sure point out her lies.

[treestar]

118. +1

Though still referring to us as those who "adore" Obama.

[JoePhilly]

153. That's what caught my attention.

Pretty stunning.

[uponit7771]

138. +1

[JI7]

22. didn't you defend those who called Obama a "Piece of Shit" ?

[one_voice]

33. snap.

edited to add: best fucking answer in this thread.

[Number23]

81. I thought the other one was good but I think this one is The Winna.

[rbrnmw]

148. yep totally agree

[Starry Messenger]

103. +1

[uponit7771]

137. Well, there it is then...

[Beacool]

23. Obama chose Hillary as his SOS.

A position she rejected until Biden was called in to convince her. Hillary ended up enjoying the job and has remained in touch with Obama since leaving that post. They have met for private lunches several times.

Of the Democrats in the running, she IS his heir.

[leveymg]

41. That was the deal they reached that night in her DC house before the Convention

Not his first choice but the price of politics. He came to regret it

[Beacool]

56. Utter nonsense.

Your comment is not based on any fact.

[Agschmid]

78. ... And we are just making shit up again I see.

[leveymg]

155. What do you think they talked about the night of June 5, 2008?

Last edited Mon Jan 18, 2016, 02:48 PM - Edit history (2)

She didn't end up as Vice President, a job which she didn't really want, anyway.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/05/clinton.obama.wrap/index.html?iref=topnews
8:50 a.m. EDT, Fri June 6, 2008
Obama, Clinton meet for 'unity' talks

Story Highlights
Obama and Clinton discussed bringing campaigns together, sources said
Top Democrats from Clinton's home state of New York plan to endorse Obama
Clinton supporters have stepped up efforts to get her the vice-presidential slot
Clinton sends e-mail to supporters, pledging to help Sen. Barack Obama
Next Article in Politics »

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Sen. Barack Obama and Sen. Hillary Clinton met late Thursday in Washington, D.C. -- their first meeting since Obama became the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee.

"Sen. Clinton and Sen. Obama met tonight and had a productive discussion about the important work that needs to be done to succeed in November," a joint statement from the two sides said.

CNN's Candy Crowley confirmed that the two met to discuss plans for "bringing the campaigns together in unity for the party."

Earlier, reporters on Obama's press plane learned that the presumed Democratic nominee for president was not aboard when it departed Virginia, where he had been campaigning. Aides said staff members "scheduled him some meetings" in Washington.

The meeting originally was believed to be at Clinton's D.C. home, but sources later said the two met elsewhere in Washington.

[Agschmid]

156. You link doesn't back up anything you said... So again I say apparently we are just making shit up.

[leveymg]

158. Do you have something better that sheds light on how and why Obama appointed her as SOS?

Or, do you think she was appointed to that post because the two saw entirely eye-to-eye on foreign policy?

[notadmblnd]

62. Except- this country is not a Monarchy

and no one inherits the throne

[Beacool]

64. No one said that it was.

[notadmblnd]

66. Yes you did. You said she is Obama's heir

We elect our leaders in this country. No one inherits a throne.

[Beacool]

70. Political heir, do I really need to spell it out?

[notadmblnd]

72. You need to use the correct terminology

that is what you need to do.

[Bluenorthwest]

109. That terminology is not so great. In any place with actual 'heirs' to power that is a birth right

and this is why American politicians have no heirs to their freaking offices. And in terms of a 'political heir' that would be up to Barack Obama to say, and he has not said that. You do not speak for him, there is not string to pull to move his mouth while you speak the words for him, this is not Vaudeville.

Barack Obama is the President of the United States, an office that has no 'heir' and an office for which he has not in fact endorsed any candidate.

[sorechasm]

100. So why hasn't PBO endorsed her? nt.

[1StrongBlackMan]

150. Because it would be a stupid idea for a sitting President to endorse someone in a ...

contested primary ... and President Obama is not a stupid man.

[Empowerer]

152. For the same reasons that no other sitting presidents have endorsed in the primary

Because they don't.

[Mother Of Four]

171. ...

I'm sorry Beacool, I try really hard not to talk crap about the candidates, and this isn't about a candidate at all. The whole "Heir" thing sticks in my craw. If we get into heirs and such, then where does that leave the democratic process?

If she wins, she wins. If she loses, she loses. But there should never be (IMHO) a preordained result.

Apologies if I misunderstood you.

[Beacool]

172. What I meant is that of the two front runners, obviously Hillary is the one politically closest

to Obama. Does someone here really think that Obama is hoping that Sanders wins the nomination? That's absurd.

That's all I meant.

[Mother Of Four]

183. Thanks for the clarification :)

[thereismore]

180. Heir?

This is not a monarchy.

[kcjohn1]

30. She thinks AA are stupid

Such blatant pandering. I think its more likely to backfire than work. Clintons playbook is from the 90s. I like to think people are more cynical now, and see through cheap politicians.

The thing with these tactics is you need to be subtle and slick salesman. Bill was slick/smooth like a conman. Fortunately Hillary doesn't have that skillset.

[RandySF]

31. Ask an AA Dem

[brooklynite]

32. Aren't AA Dems slightly sickened by Bernie's suggesting Obama be primaried?

[JRLeft]

49. Not really.

[brooklynite]

53. ...and not really in response to the OP.

[JRLeft]

74. I said some are but most got over it. My mom did. I did too.

It's her corporatism that bothers me.

[uponit7771]

142. Not slightly, at this point very and it was smart of Clinton to start this conversation in SC

... seeing how petulant Sanders words are.

I say petulant now because his single payer plan was some bullshit, he should have had something better the way he's chided people so far about the issue.

[seabeyond]

43. Sanders campaigns against Obama. Clinton is extending what Obama started. Figure it out. Not tough

[Green Forest]

45. lol

Yeah right.

[seabeyond]

51. I know. It is a hoot his supporters that ignore what the man says. One would think, that his

supporters would actually believe him when he says he would change course from Obama, or that Obama needs to be primaried or that Obama has failed and the whole Democratic party needs to be destroyed so he can fix it. But, they pretend he didnt just say it, so they can blame others for his own words.

[JRLeft]

52. She better hope, she wins Iowa and New Hampshire or else

her lead in SC will disappear overnight.

[Gothmog]

60. Bernie Sanders can win Iowa and New Hampshire. Then what?

Many people are wondering what Sanders will do after Iowa and New Hampshire http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/16/politics/bernie-sanders-south-carolina-democratic-debate/index.html

But for all the good news for Sanders, he still faces the same electability question: can a Democratic socialist from the second-whitest state in the country win voters that actually look like the rest of the Democratic Party? After Iowa and New Hampshire -- two overwhelmingly white states -- Sanders faces an electorate that is much more diverse and not as familiar with Sanders, especially in the South, which at the moment is Clinton Country.

If he can't expand his base, Sanders can tout all the polls he wants that show him doing better than Clinton in hypothetical head-to-head contests with Republicans, but he won't be the Democratic nominee.

It's an issue he will have to address beginning at Sunday night's Democratic presidential debate in Charleston, South Carolina.

Clinton has been out ahead of Sanders in courting black voters, touting this week an endorsement from Obama's former attorney general, Eric Holder, who said that Clinton is the best candidate to build on Obama's legacy. He will appear with the former secretary of state in an upcoming swing in South Carolina.

Clinton supporters say that her team understands the bloc of voters that drives the overall black vote. "The key demographic that matters is African-American women and Karen Finney and LaDavia Drane and Maya Harris are very much focused on that group," said Bakari Sellers, a former state legislator in South Carolina and CNN contributor, listing Clinton's top aides. "They are going to message and organize and not just win it, but lock it down overwhelmingly."

Sanders is not likely to be the nominee unless he can expand his base. Victories in two states with 90+% white voting populations will not make any difference in the race to be the nominee

[seabeyond]

63. Meh. Clinton is ahead a good 30%. She's got this.

[grasswire]

92. Obama campaigned FOR Sanders.

Then Sanders campaigned FOR Obama, in 2008 and in 2012. Get it straight.

[NCTraveler]

111. It really isn't that tough. And extremely obvious. nt.

[senz]

50. I have NEVER heard Bernie Sanders speak disrespectfully of Barack Obama.

I heard Hillary Clinton do it numerous times in 2008.

[Beacool]

61. Try in 2011.

Today, while appearing on Thom Hartmann’s radio show, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) — who, while being an independent, caucuses with the Democrats — said that one way progressives can make sure Obama does not enact huge cuts to major social programs is to run a primary challenger against him. Sanders told a listener who called in to protest a debt ceiling deal that cuts Social Security that such a challenge would be a “good idea”:

SANDERS: Brian, believe me, I wish I had the answer to your question. Let me just suggest this. I think there are millions of Americans who are deeply disappointed in the president; who believe that, with regard to Social Security and a number of other issues, he said one thing as a candidate and is doing something very much else as a president; who cannot believe how weak he has been, for whatever reason, in negotiating with Republicans and there’s deep disappointment. So my suggestion is, I think one of the reasons the president has been able to move so far to the right is that there is no primary opposition to him and I think it would do this country a good deal of service if people started thinking about candidates out there to begin contrasting what is a progressive agenda as opposed to what Obama is doing. […] So I would say to Ryan [sic] discouragement is not an option. I think it would be a good idea if President Obama faced some primary opposition.

[senz]

71. There was absolutely nothing disrespectful in that. Nothing.

Do you understand the meaning of the word "disrespect?"

I just read that myself, courtesy of a link from one of your fellow hillarians, and replied to it here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1024253

I wouldn't like to think that you, Beacool, with all your higher education, would be unable to comprehend what Bernie was saying there. It's quite a bit more nuanced than you care to admit.

[Beacool]

76. Hillarians? That right there is the big difference between us.

I have never called Sanders' supporters anything other than that, his supporters. You want to talk insulting? There's nothing but contempt and disrespect on this board for Hillary. Furthermore, I still believe that when all is said and done, she will be the nominee. Despite the disdain of the Left.

[senz]

80. Sorry, that's fairly common usage, as is "Bernistas" which I don't mind.

You are, once again, turning a conversation into something personal and emotional when in fact we were discussing something I consider meaningful and important.

I'm sorry, Beacool, but little personal fights and emotional responses aren't very interesting to me. I was hoping that with your degree in political science you might be more fun to talk to.

Oh well, let's just forget it. Have a nice day tomorrow.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

95. In other words, you completely skipped the question put to you because he wasn't disrespectful.

You can run and change the subject, but you can't hide.

[Green Forest]

98. Good observation. The "Bernie is bad" talking point was tried and failed.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

99. Thank you. I'm not giving away freebies anymore to these people. nt

[Bobbie Jo]

154. Here's another observation

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=327107&sub=trans

Speaking of "tried and failed"

Oh well...

[uponit7771]

144. He says "...Obama has been able to move to the right..." then suggest a a remedy of primary so he

... will tack back to the left.

The whole premise was some false relative to what Obama had to put up with in congress and only having 59 days of dem rule before the historic abuse of filibuster.

Both of those Sanders left out of the "Obama moved right narrative"... which to me is disingenuous seeing he's not come up with something better

[treestar]

119. And he was having to compromise to keep the government open

as the Rs have no qualms about shutting it down. I dislike it when people talk as Bernie did above, claiming Obama chose the policies of the right that he had to make a compromise on.

[hrmjustin]

54. I don't think African Americans like this;

http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/07/22/277124/bernie-sanders-primary-obama/

[senz]

84. I think AAs are smarter than you give them credit for.

[JustAnotherGen]

130. I'm a black American

And I didn't like it.


Oh wait - I must be one of the dumb ones because I think Sanders was behaving pretty shitty there.

Special Topic
Bernie Sanders Says It Would Be A ‘Good Idea’ To Primary President Obama


http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/07/22/277124/bernie-sanders-primary-obama/

Recently, President Obama has faced fire from many in his own base for endorsing unpopular proposals that would include regressive cuts to Social Security in order to win a hike in the debt ceiling.

Today, while appearing on Thom Hartmann’s radio show, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) — who, while being an independent, caucuses with the Democrats — said that one way progressives can make sure Obama does not enact huge cuts to major social programs is to run a primary challenger against him. Sanders told a listener who called in to protest a debt ceiling deal that cuts Social Security that such a challenge would be a “good idea”:


SANDERS: Brian, believe me, I wish I had the answer to your question. Let me just suggest this. I think there are millions of Americans who are deeply disappointed in the president; who believe that, with regard to Social Security and a number of other issues, he said one thing as a candidate and is doing something very much else as a president; who cannot believe how weak he has been, for whatever reason, in negotiating with Republicans and there’s deep disappointment. So my suggestion is, I think one of the reasons the president has been able to move so far to the right is that there is no primary opposition to him and I think it would do this country a good deal of service if people started thinking about candidates out there to begin contrasting what is a progressive agenda as opposed to what Obama is doing. […] So I would say to Ryan [sic] discouragement is not an option. I think it would be a good idea if President Obama faced some primary opposition.

Sanders did not say that he himself would run in a primary against Obama as he is not a member of the Democratic Party.

[GummyBearz]

132. Yea

Best to get butt hurt over a misrepresentation of an out of context comment. Its not like Obama can't win a primary, he smashed HRC when she was being down right racist the last time he was in a primary

[JustAnotherGen]

147. Yep - it sure is

[underthematrix]

85. David is bitter? LOL!

Hill worked hard to get PBO elected in 2008 and Bill and Hill worked hard to get him re-elected in 2012 while Bernie was talking about primarying my beloved President.

[senz]

87. Please don't state falsehoods about Bernie.

He was not "talking about primarying" Obama, who is also my beloved President.

On one occasion, talking with someone over the phone about Obama's intention to cut Social Security, he suggested that a primary challenge from the Left might be a way to push Obama back to the Left. One time. In a conversation with someone about saving Social Security.

Don't make it into something it isn't.

[underthematrix]

88. Thank you for your comment

[leftofcool]

102. Yes he was. Deal with it!

[Bluenorthwest]

110. Yep they campaigned in the GE for him but first they were the two Americans most dedicated to

the proposition that Obama must not be President. Hillary tried hard first to get herself elected, Bill too, even Chelsea came to my town to stop Obama. They failed to do so, hitched wagon and did what politicians do to move forward. Axelrod on the other hand ran Obama's campaign and defeated Hillary, whose objective was the defeat of Barack 'it's a fairy tale' Obama.

[Lil Missy]

90. no, not at all

[leftofcool]

101. Another Stockholm Syndrome thread

[firebrand80]

105. No, the "Sickening" debate was Thursday

I actually think there's an interesting discussion to be had on what Obama's legacy is and how the next President might "continue" it.

But this flame-baiting thread isn't the place to have it, so I'll leave you guys to it.

[Hiraeth]

208. agree on all points.

[BumRushDaShow]

106. More Stockholm

Can't DUers quit trying to DEFINE what AAs (which I am) should and should not think?

This is the most fucking arrogant thing imaginable that whites tend to do - define ME and what I should think, do, support, eat, listen to, and learn. AAs are diverse in their cultural leanings & backgrounds, upbringing, and interests based on their own life experiences and life goals. We don't need anyone else to tell us what we are supposed to be outraged by, unless it is about this type of post.

But the most ironic thing about this OP is that no mention is made about the PANDERING that Bernie and many of his supporters here on DU did (and have done in the past) invoking MLK and somehow trying to force-fit him and his message and focus on racial inequality and other injustices, into some specifically-defined "democratic socialist" perspective as if this were his one and only raison d'etre and nothing else matters. In essence, racism takes a back seat to economics which is bullshit. It is insulting and OFFENSIVE.

[lovemydog]

107. +1

Thank you.

[Empowerer]

113. THANK YOU!!!

The sad thing is that they don't even seem to see how obnoxious and condescending they come across. And then they can't figure out why Sanders is having trouble building significant African-American support - assuming that it COULDN'T have anything to do with him or them - because they are all unassailable - so it MUST be because we're stupid because, after all, "Bernie marched with Dr. King!"

[BumRushDaShow]

133. It is "white privilege" illustrated perfectly - front and center

"They" are considered the "norm" and everyone else (POC) is "other". And it manifests literally daily here on DU with post after post after post.

And specifically with respect to what Hillary said last night re: Obama - some will see it as "pandering" and others will see it as "strategically sound electioneering" targeted at a demographic that Sanders continues to have difficulty connecting with.

My first take was "Wow. That was slick" (I literally said that to myself)... but I was definitely NOT offended by it because I believe, after all the acrimony of 2008, that she does realize that the nation's electoral demographics HAVE changed, and that "embracing" that demographic in a fuller sense than simply running obscure rappers or discredited, washed-up "civil rights" proponents with a bone to pick, up the flag pole, is the most prudent course towards being elected. And she does have the benefit of having served in the Obama administration in a very high-profile position - and more so in a position that actually gave her the opportunity to literally meet with world leaders and test her mettle with them. I.e., all the quips aside about her and her "relationship with" Putin should really have a focus on the fact that she HAS literally met with him and has whatever "impressions" she took away from that (and he has the same about her) to further utilize should she be elected.

The bottom line is that there is a continued narrative on DU that POC will "like" Bernie once they "get to know" him but those posters don't seem to get the fact that many of us POC most likely DO agree with much of what he says, however we also know that "outreach" goes far beyond going on about what one did 50 years ago, after which we observed that when that "phase" of his life was done, he picked up and left it all behind - in 1968 (not 1978 or 1998 or 2008 - 48 years ago in 1968) to take full advantage of the freedom of movement that his "whiteness" allowed. He was free to choose anywhere (including his own home town of NYC), yet he chose an almost all-white state with very few POC, which afforded him the opportunity to start anew with little or no concern about "civil rights".

Meanwhile, Clinton spent almost a dozen years as a first lady to a governor whose gubernatorial home was in a city that was/is almost 50 % black. Similarly, O'Malley was a mayor of a city that was over 60% black. And even if neither had everyday contact with POC, they couldn't help but be surrounded by them and be required at some point to engage them. That is something that Sanders missed out on when he fled the 2 big cities where he lived (NYC and Chicago) to make his home in Vermont in a city (Burlington - a place that I have been to by the way because one of my uncles had a houseboat docked there - one of the few POCs in the area, although his home was Maine) that is less than 4% black.

[Empowerer]

141. Absolutely spot on

You should definitely make this an OP.

You perfectly laid out some of the concerns that so many POC - and others who aren't lecturing us about how we should think - have expressed, only to be dismissed as ignorant patsies.

I love every word you wrote, but particularly: "she does realize that ... 'embracing' that demographic in a fuller sense than simply running obscure rappers or discredited, washed-up "civil rights" proponents with a bone to pick, up the flag pole, is the most prudent course towards being elected."

[Number23]

175. You have simply got to start speaking up more on this more often

Your posts in this thread are absolutely magnificent.

"embracing" that demographic in a fuller sense than simply running obscure rappers or discredited, washed-up "civil rights" proponents with a bone to pick, up the flag pole, is the most prudent course towards being elected.

Yes. Absolutely yes.

But keep in mind, that the folks hollering about Hillary's "pandering" to AA voters are the same crowd that think that Sanders talking about "course correction" re: Obama and how he would not be furthering Obama's legacy are good things.

A person running for the Dem nomination is planning on running away from the legacy of the nation's first black president, who is widely acknowledged as one of the most liberal presidents this country has had and who has an 80% support rating from Democrats. And his attempts at running away and "correcting" this man's legacy is applauded here. Kind of tells you all you need to know.

[Empowerer]

176. ˆˆˆWhat Number23 said . . .

[DemocratSinceBirth]

184. FIXED

A person running for the Dem nomination is planning on running away from the legacy of the nation's first black president, who is widely acknowledged as one of the most liberal presidents this country has had and who has an 84% support rating from Democrats. And his attempts at running away and "correcting" this man's legacy is applauded here. Kind of tells you all you need to know.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/mpx3hj26fz/tabs_DEM_PRIMARY_20160113.pdf

[Number23]

185. Thanks for that fix, DSB!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

196. You are welcome.

This thread gives me in a window into many posters' souls.

[steve2470]

209. +1 nt

[betsuni]

216. +1

[Bobbie Jo]

123. The disconnect is absolutely stunning.

Excellent post, thank you.

[hrmjustin]

125. Sometimes I wish they would listen to themselves.

It is really sad and infuriating.

[Quayblue]

126. +1000

And I have nothing else to add but

[JustAnotherGen]

127. You said everything I wanted to say

There's but a handful of black DUer's at this site.

Here's a challenge to the OP - go to For Harriet on Facebook (it's also an ezine) and post the question there. Seriously - why not go where the black folks go to discuss black issues?

Just to see how the op makes out!

[Empowerer]

143. Excellent suggestion

[uponit7771]

140. +1

[1StrongBlackMan]

159. +1,000,000 ...

Well said.

[Number23]

174. Girl, DROP THAT MIKE!!!

PANDERING that Bernie and many of his supporters here on DU did (and have done in the past) invoking MLK

Except I have never thought of that as "pandering." More like tone deaf, racial idiocy wrapped up in a bow of bewildering cluelessness.

[tishaLA]

192. I should have read through the thread before I posted

because you said it all.

[Empowerer]

112. I think we're sicker of being patronized by people who treat us as if we can't think for ourselves

and that, if we don't support the candidates THEY support, it's because we're ignorant or naive.

[riversedge]

114. I think the OP is ugly and shameful.

[JustAnotherGen]

129. Me too - and fakey fake

He/She doesn't really care - they just wanted attention.

Looks like he/she got it.

[treestar]

115. No

LOL. She was his SOS.

We "who adore Obama" white or black, don't hang onto bitterness for 8 years.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

121. Two points...

Point one-David Axelrod is being mischaracterized. He was specifically referring to when she invoked PBO as a wedge against the charge she's too close to Wall Street, not the invoking of PBO in general. I hate to even give my opponent an inch but maybe in that instance she went a tad bit too far, maybe.

Point two- Read True Believer by David Axelrod. He speaks glowingly of both Clintons and as a parent of a physically challenged daughter specifically praises her efforts in that area.

Actually, I have a third point. I don't see the point of picking at racial scabs. I am not black but I am a matrilineal Jew. I would be displeased to see my mom's religion used as a political football.

[wendylaroux]

128. she was sickning

it's like she had inserted her body up his ass,and was an actual part of him.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

134. Is this physically possible?

she was sickning (sic) it's like she had inserted her body up his ass,and was an actual part of him


-wendylaroux

Is this even physically possible? Does it seem to you like it would really hurt, for both of them?


Thank you in advance.


Always respectfully,
DSB

[DemocratSinceBirth]

164. Sure, but is this anatomically possible

Is this anatomically possible?

she was sickning (sic) it's like she had inserted her body up his ass,and was an actual part of him


-wendylaroux


http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511023607#post128

I believe there are sites in the nether regions of the internet where people insert all kinds of objects into their orifices but I have never seen a site where a person was able to insert himself or herself into the orifice you alluded to.

Could you please share with me and the rest of the denizens of this august board the mechanics of such an act.


Thank you in advance.


Respectfully,
DSB

[wendylaroux]

165. really? come over to the decent side,you have it in you! advice for you:

"Free your mind, your ass will follow." - George Clinton

[DemocratSinceBirth]

167. I will give you this round. You left me speechless.

[JustAnotherGen]

131. First I don't 'adore' Obama

I respect the hell out of him.

Second - you don't really care. That's my opinion - only my opinion. I don't think you really care.

You just posted this to get Sanders supporters worked up over nothing.

The average Sanders supporter at DU is focused intensely on Economic Justice - leave them be.

[1StrongBlackMan]

135. No. But thanks for asking. eom.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

136. You seem, well, taciturn, this morning, my brother. eom.

[1StrongBlackMan]

166. I have been watching the Martian ...

and avoiding doing some much needed yard work.

Besides ... BumRushDaShow said all that needed to be said.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

168. You have the day off...I wish more businesses would close./nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

169. Yes ... And this is Arizona! ...

Last edited Mon Jan 18, 2016, 04:12 PM - Edit history (1)

I can't believe that a segment of DU thinks that crap is clever and/or non-offensive ... even after having been told that it is not and that it is!

But I am completely unsurprised at who rec'd this arrogantly paternalistic filth.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

170. It is in HRC's self interest to cling to President Obama. We are all adults!!! We know that!!!

But she sure is putting him on a pedestal and paying homage to him in the process. And their approach to politics is similar. They are both center left pragmatists who like to get things done. Hillary is a bit more hawkish than him but like her husband I don't expect her to do anything stupid.

[EndElectoral]

139. Her trying to take credit for Obama's success in Iran was her worst moment of the night.

[uponit7771]

145. Wasn't she SoS when the Iran dealings started? tia

[sufrommich]

146. This "concern" would be a lot more believable if

we weren't on a site where calling Obama a "piece of shit used car salesman" wasn't a guarantee for getting recs in the hundreds.

[Sheepshank]

149. Why do you assume this offensive to AAs?

This reads like another take on Stockholm Syndrome. And this type of Bernie surragassy is a shining example why you will never help Bernie and Bernie cannot get the AA vote en Masse.

You should delete the OP.

[CommonSenseDemocrat]

151. Seriously? This post is very racially offensive.

There was a primary election in 2008. One person won, others lost. The winner selected one of those people as his running mate and the other as his Secretary of State.

We need to stop making enemies out of other candidates in primary elections.

[LexVegas]

157. We needed another one of these posts after the other successful paternalistic thread. nt

[Beacool]

194. Yes, apparently they assume that AAs can't think for themselves.

They are going to win them over by condescending to them.

[Live and Learn]

160. I don't think most African Americans are as naive as Hillary assumes.

I am sure the vast majority of them saw through her pandering.

[wendylaroux]

163. Agree,

everyone can see through Hillary,some just lie about it.

[kwassa]

188. more projection from white people about black people.

[1StrongBlackMan]

173. Aren't Bernie supporters slightly sickened by the constant display of brow-beating paternalism ...

that gets posted to DU by some of Bernie's most "enthusiastic" fans?

If I were a Bernie supporter, posts like this would piss me off because it feeds the narrative that Bernie supporters are, both, arrogant and racially tone deaf. And, that is an impression that some Bernie supporters work so hard to tamp down.

[NOLALady]

177. Not this AA.

[tishaLA]

191. "Stockholm Syndrome," perhaps?

[Beacool]

193. Do you realize how insulting you sound?

[tishaLA]

195. sarcasm

and a reference to an earlier OP

[Beacool]

198. My apologies, I misunderstood.

It's just hard to believe what some people post here. This board has become toxic.

[tishaLA]

199. No worries. I agree about the toxicity

in fact, the "Stockholm Syndrome" OP I referenced--which concerned African Americans and LGBT people supporting Secretary Clinton--had a couple hundred recs.

Have a great day, Bea!

[Beacool]

200. Yeah, I remember that post.

They insulted two of the largest groups that form the base of the party. I'm surprised they didn't throw in Hispanics for good measure.



You too have a nice evening.

[JimDandy]

204. "You have zero knowledge of what you're babbling about."

You're contributing to the toxicity with statements like that right here in this thread and then are complaining about the very atmosphere you help to create! That's a bit disengenuous.

[Beacool]

212. I stand by that remark.

That poster made assumptions about the reasons why Obama offered Hillary the post of SOS. He/she also went on about Hillary's reasons for resigning and Obama's reaction to it, neither statement was factual or based on anything other than that poster's personal opinion.

[LuvLoogie]

203. Nice goin', Ace.

[alcibiades_mystery]

207. "those who adore Obama"

When the history of the politics of this era is written, there will be chapters on the sheer contempt shown by white progressives for African American voters, and African Americans more generally.

My God.

[steve2470]

210. time to self delete, very offensive OP

I swear, I'm a Bernie supporter but some of you are so fucking tone deaf towards AA Dems. It almost makes me want to vote for Secretary Clinton or Governor O'Malley just out of spite.

[GeorgeGist]

211. Huh?

cleave
1
[klēv]
VERB
split or sever (something), especially along a natural line or grain:
"the large ax his father used to cleave wood for the fire"
synonyms: split (open) · cut (up) · hew · hack · chop up · rive
Powered by Oxford Dictionaries · © Oxford University Press

[DemocratSinceBirth]

213. Perhaps the seminal poster meant "clinging"

Good catch!

[Tanuki]

220. Cleave is perfectly correct in that sentence. It has two different meanings,

which are nearly opposites.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-2-24/
"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and cleave to his wife: and they shall be one flesh"

[craigmatic]

214. I haven't forgotten 2008. Hillary doesn't believe in anything and Sanders is promising things he can

not deliver at least not while the repubs control congress.

[betsuni]

215. "I adore wrapping myself in Obama." Tonight. Cleave to Obama. Obama, the fragrance.