2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary sent her daughter out to lie, and her daughter knowingly did lie. What does this mean?
For me, it's serious character flaws, there is plenty that separates them such as reinstating Glass Steagall. To go after healthcare with such lies, is despicable. This is why I cannot support a Clinton, ever again. Our country has been changed, from Bill's policies and not for the better.
But sending out Chelsea to lie, and Chelsea is no dummy, I have lost all respect for her as well.
Is this how a mother uses a daughter? Not my mother. She has crossed a line, and it's all over the news that what Chelsea said was 'untrue', 'not true', every other definition of a LIE.
This is so sad, after Senator Sanders was so respectful of her. He's smart enough to know she'll step in it all on her own. And she just did. I just lost all respect for Hillary, and I was a former supporter while this time I chose Bernie Sanders.
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virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)I am sad about Chelsea participating.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)just a typical politician; talking out of two sides of him mouth
while his supporters go negative.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Up is down and down is up
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Except he is socialist and he had never lead anywhere but small
rich state
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I'm eager to see what hijinks lewelby gets up to when Sanders wins the nomination.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)
840high
(17,196 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)
olegramps
(8,200 posts)
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)He's a right wing teabagger plant to take the nomination away from Clinton who deserves it because she is a woman and has more leadership experience than Bernie.
(Sarcasm fully intended)
Armstead
(47,803 posts)
PatrickforO
(15,140 posts)We have one instance of a couple of people accessing data through a door that was left open, and now those people have been fired and the door has been closed. Perhaps you can point to other instances?
Renew Deal
(83,353 posts)SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)choice and got on the Obama train. I was one.
I supported Hillary until the day Sanders said that he was running.
No mystery
You are wrong
shenmue
(38,538 posts)
Logical
(22,457 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)SHRED
(28,136 posts)...could sway someone?
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)and she is too convinced of her invincibility to even give it a second thought. One would think that Penn was back in her campaign bRain tRust.
Seriously? Bill Clinton on the trail? Not after a few zingers from Trump. That quickly closed down that toe in the water test.
And now a hedge fund millionairess, who made $200k fresh from college to do . . . something? Seriously? they are using the picture child of inheritance and family connections to attract who? Millennials? Hardly. X-Gen? Who are they shitting? Conservatives who have not decided between Cruz, Trump or Rubio?
People are swayed by Chelsea today about as much as they are swayed by Anthony Weiner. Who is also taking his wife's instructions to attack Bernie.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)Just google it. Don't need an alert.
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)I actually forgot that Bill was traveling on "I Like the Little Ones" Express on Epstein's plush playground 727.
That whole scene, and how Dershowitz defended him (I just love his choice of clients) by twisting the victim notification system, is sickening.
LiberalArkie
(16,893 posts)lie a lot to sell their product. They either lie about their product or their competition's product.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)shenmue
(38,538 posts) Logical
(22,457 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)They're only in it for themselves. To be fair, that is true for most politicians.
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)She went on ABC this morning and claimed that her own attacks and Chelsea's attacks weren't actually attacks at all... oh no no... they were just a nice little way to ask Bernie for "specifics".
Hillary: "Bernie is a FATSO"
Chelsea:"Bernie is a total LARDASS"
The Media: Bernie is not fat!
Clinton: "We didn't call him fat, we were just asking how much he weighed"
Everyone with a brain: Hillary is lying
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)Right here....on DU for you.
Shame on you Hillary....is the post title:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511000188
And just look at her history on healthcare right here on DU. To go after Sanders is awful.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251600807
floriduck
(2,262 posts)And payback is a bitch. To all you righteous ones, notice the word bitch is connected to payback, not Hill.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)Proserpina
(2,352 posts)her only way to get even with Bill was to be President herself and do it "better", or at least, female. Her spot in history is slipping away...
This is mental illness of the most self-defeating kind.
randys1
(16,286 posts)
Whoever the owner is of this board better fucking wake up
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)A large majority of Democrats want single payer. Even a majority of AMERICANS want single payer.
We need a President who makes us believe it is possible (since it is possible). Not one who SCARES us in to thinking it's not possible on behalf of the financial elite who profit off of our misery, sickness, and death.
Just go away Hillary.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)...set any hope of singlepayer back decades.
Jackilope
(819 posts)I loved him back when he played the part of the scrappy representative who was fighting for Medicare for All back in the day. How sad and pathetic is it that he now turns on Sanders, who has Medicare For All front and center in his campaign platform.
Fighting for us is an act to the Clintons. It is pure theater. Just in looking at the family Chelsea married into, you know damn well that Hillary's "Cut that out!" Finger waving was hollow.
We need to let them know this isn't the corrupt, GOP lite, Third Way party. It is time to get the Democratic Party back.
uponit7771
(92,182 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)
thereismore
(13,326 posts)
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)sadly, family appears to be no exception.
bluedigger
(17,175 posts)They keep throwing stuff against Bernie out there, and nothing is working.
Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)The Clintons have no shame, have no decency, have no values.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Oh c'mon!
Dick Cheney did it!
Oh wait.....
I suppose Chelsea will be warning us about "death panels" next.
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)because they realize neither Hillary or Bill have much credibility on the national stage.. They've seen the polls just like we have, 60% of the public believe Hillary isn't trustworthy...
Personally if I were a Clinton supporter this would be the turning point for me...
hedda_foil
(16,575 posts)It was on the Halperin-Heilemann show yesterday, along with Chelsea's almost identical attack. That's where the remarks were first called a LIE.
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)Her problem is people already don't trust her.. How is lying about Sander's healthcare plan going to help? This was pulled right out of Karl Rove's ass... This just makes her look desperate and introducing her daughter into the campaign with an obvious lie meant to scare people into thinking Bernie's going to take away their HC just adds to the trust factor..This kind of BS might work with Republican voters but she's talking to Democrats who know better..
Hillary's got some real problems moving forward, the Clinton Foundation being one. There's a lot Bernie could bring into the light of day if he wanted to start slinging mud...
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)Of if she is surrounded by yes-people who are doing their level best to keep unflattering feedback from her, so she marches on in complete ignorance.
The other possibility is that DWS has totally convinced her that the nomination is in the bag that she thinks she’s impervious to missteps. I hope after she loses again she’ll retire from politics...
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)Become a multi million dollar political machine, enjoy all of the perks that go along with it and start believing the myth that you're entitled.. Her campaign has become all about Hillary, lying about a superior health care system that she once supported means nothing as long as the objective is met.
She's so invested in herself she misses how transparent she's become..
Nay
(12,051 posts)have a good effect? Sending your daughter out (and yourself) to tell outright lies about what Bernie is trying to do is the tactic of someone who is in a FLOP SWEAT about losing the nomination, and who does not care what scorched-earth tactic she uses to get her lead back.
She and her advisers STILL do not understand that this sort of tactic never has, and never will, work against someone who radiates honesty, evenhandedness, and goodwill like Bernie does. It repels Democrats who value plain speaking and fair dealing. She should never, ever have done this. If she was advised to do this, those advisors should be fired.
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)
randys1
(16,286 posts)Party and President Bill Clinton are being viciously and repeatedly attacked on your message board..
HELLO?
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)what good is a political forum in the first place?
HELLO?
randys1
(16,286 posts)Democratic Underground, or you shouldnt be anyways
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)Which was, "neither Hillary or Bill have "much" credibility on the national stage".... Apparently in your vision of a forum it's fine to misquote someone as long as it's in defense of the Clintons...
Maybe if you need a forum so you can encourage pleasant fantasies to prop up your heroes you should start a fan club instead of participating in a forum.. Try the DNC...
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)crap.
They didn't prep her with fact? OR did they prep and strategize with lies/bullshit?
The campaign is a mess and demonstrates daily why "she" should never be in the White House.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)After all, Chelsea is living a pretty quiet life as a new mom and successful business woman. Chelsea wasn't even on the radar, but most people most likely had either no opinion or a positive opinion of her.
Well, her self-serving, narcissistic mother just changed all of that.
Their strategy was clear. Send Chelsea out with the most obvious of lies, which would leave the Clinton camp somewhat immune. Because who (certainly not Bernie Sanders) would take on this young woman and daughter of his opponent?
Hillary Clinton, in effect, threw her daughter into a shark tank with bloody steaks strapped to her legs.
This is a turning point for me. I went from disliking Hillary's policies to loathing her policies. Now I'm in a new category--loathing Hillary Clinton as a person.
What mother does this to their daughter?
tom_kelly
(1,051 posts)
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)
malthaussen
(17,830 posts)... as though she were being used by the big, bad wolves. But if she is going to be a political force someday, she needs to practice early and often. Her mother's campaign is a perfect opportunity for her to get her feet wet. That she did it poorly does not mean she was unwilling, just unpracticed.
-- Mal
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)She’s not stupid.
Sienna86
(2,151 posts)Chelsea Clinton is an intelligent person. She, and her mother, know these were lies. All for the prize.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)
DonCoquixote
(13,750 posts)and so on.
Proserpina
(2,352 posts)mentally, ethically, and emotionally.
randome
(34,845 posts)And so on and so on...
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]
cali
(114,904 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)One person's 'lie' is another's 'interpretation'.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]
cali
(114,904 posts)
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)"It's politics, John".
That's what Chimpy said.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)I'm voting for the candidate not associated with words like Liar and Dishonesty.
Deny and Shred
(1,061 posts)The GOP has an 'interpretation' of Bengazi for that matter.
But its all just politics? Lies and distortions are normal and inbounds?
Karl? Is that you?
That putrid water must get heavy.
DUbeornot2be
(367 posts)...she thinks my 'abuela' would throw my 'madre' out to lie to the world on behalf of corporate sponsors...
Sorry Hillary! That is not my 'familia!'
pandr32
(12,399 posts)...but please explain exactly how what Chelsea Clinton said is a lie? Sanders has said for years that we need a different system, and as yet he has not provided details except that each state would implement their own. His "plan" won't provide details until at least February, and by then it will be too late for the primaries.
This is a policy issue, and it is fair game to bring it up.
And this "Glass Steagall" thing has been addressed and explained...it did not cause the financial crisis at all, and even President Obama spoke last night about how many of our regulations have become antiquated in our modern international system...they need to be revisited and revised. One piece of Glass Steagall was repealed and replaced with Dodd-Frank. Now we need to address the "shadow banks" and their practices. New regulations need to be put into place.
Your slamming of Chelsea as having "serious character flaws", "despicable", "a Clinton", etc. is uncalled for in this instance. You should already know by now that the media loves to hate on the Clintons going back quite a ways thanks to what plays well with a largely right-wing base and advertisers. Millions of dollars spent, discredited books and articles all designed to cause harm to the Clintons are very real.
What is called for here are facts, not personal attacks against the Clintons. Show the details of the plans and policies that prove that what Chelsea said are wrong. Don't just do the usual turn of the table.
in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)Or Obamacare. BLATANT LIES. He's rolling them all into a Universal Medicare for all plan. And I have never heard him say the states would run their own Medicare for All plans either. I can't see him letting ANY RED STATES run any of his Medicare for All. They would go out of their way to destroy whatever they could, so I don't think that's true. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Do you honestly believe Bernie Sanders, of all people, would let innocent men, women and children go without healthcare for even one day? That's exactly what Chelsea said would happen..."millions and millions and millions would go without healthcare." LIE.
Then her mother repeated the same blatant lies.
PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE
pandr32
(12,399 posts)And yes, Sanders has said that the states would each have to set up their own and that, like now, federal funds and guidance would be used: "Instead, he espouses a single-payer system in which the federal and state governments would provide health care to all Americans. Participating states would be required to set up their own single-payer system and a national oversight board would establish an overall budget."~ http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Health_Care.htm
in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)<snip>
This is mostly rank nonsense. A single-payer system, like it does in many other countries, would cover everybody, period. To say otherwise is either willfully misunderstanding how it would work or simple scaremongering.
Hillary Clinton, jumping on a line in an old Sanders bill that says his plan would be administered by the states, is attempting to tie him to the failure of many Republican governors to embrace Obamacare's Medicaid expansion, which has resulted in millions of people being denied health insurance. But that's very different from single-payer: Sure, Republican governors could maybe try to weasel out of whatever a President Sanders had in mind, but to think he would design a plan that governors could just ignore is silly. (For the record, Sanders' camp emphatically says the plan would apply to everyone.)
Chelsea Clinton's attack is even worse, making it sound as if Sanders is like the Republicans who call to "repeal and replace" Obamacare without actually drafting a "replace" plan. As former Obama administration adviser David Axelrod said on CNN last night, "Bernie Sanders is proposing single-payer, universal healthcare. You can hardly say he is trying to take health care away from anyone or retreat from Obamacare. He's trying to exceed it. And so it's not really an honest attack."
But Hillary Clinton doubled down on her daughter's words on Wednesday, saying on "Good Morning America" that Sanders would "take everything we currently know as health care, Medicare, Medicaid, the CHIP Program, private insurance, now of the Affordable Care Act, and roll it together.” As she knows, since she is well-versed in health care policy, that's a feature, not a bug of single-payer; the alphabet soup of insurance programs is one of things that makes American health care so confusing and inefficient. Instead of attacking the idea on the merits, she's choosing to make it seem as if Sanders has a callous disregard for people losing healthcare.
This actually isn't the first time Clinton has broken out this line of criticism. In a December debate, she also used it, while parroting a ridiculous analysis claiming that Sanders' proposals would cost $18 trillion to $20 trillion. (That analysis estimated the costs of his ideas without accounting for the savings or benefits.) But now, in the heat of an ever-tightening campaign, her broadsides have taken on new meaning and urgency. <snip>
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/pat-garofalo/articles/2016-01-13/hillary-clintons-bizarre-attack-on-bernie-sanders-health-care-plan
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...(among other things) when his real proposal is "Medicare for all"?
Seems pretty blatant, actually.
pandr32
(12,399 posts)and so we would see what we have now essentially done away with before it would be changed. Especially considering Sanders has proposed handing the implementation of his "single payer" system, or expanded medicare to each of the states to set up. How this would work has not been detailed yet, and we will have to wait to see how it will be done and funded.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...would first dismantle what we have before its replacement was ready, is lying. Both of them have to know what Bernie's proposal is, and has been now for years. Medicare for all. Single payer.
You say "we would see what we have now essentially done away with before it would be changed". So you are embracing the l... er, framing. You think that Bernie has not considered there would have to be a transition plan? You think he'd start by dismantling it all and then hope for the best? That's nonsense and you ought to know that.
You can mealy-mouth all you want. Bernie has been clear what his plan is. Medicare for all is not, not, not "dismantling Medicare". That has never been anything close to what he proposes and has proposed now for decades.
Any change is disruptive. Given how truly awful our health care so-called "system" is, I think disruption is the only way it ever gets truly fixed.
You know, Hillary and Chelsea could have mounted an attack along the lines of "Just how does he propose to accomplish his goals?". I might disagree with their prescription but I would not be here talking about them lying. There is certainly a place for policy disagreements. But not for bald faced lies.
thesquanderer
(12,430 posts)She said Sanders wanted to dismantle Obamacare. Well, if you're going to replace Obamacare with a new, better program, then you can make an argument for that being true.
THEN she says that the Republicans are trying to dismantle Obamacare, and not replace it with anything. Also true. She says that that would result in millions more people without health insurance. Also true.
She says that she "worries" that Democrats, by endorsing Sanders' plan of doing away with Obamacare, gives Republicans permission to do that. (Say what? As she says, they've already tried 55 times, withput anyone's "permission."
Therefore, by putting these ideas all next to each other, it is implied that getting behind Sanders means that the millions of people lose their health insurance, though she never actually says that Sanders' plan will eliminate anyone's coverage.
It was... Clintonesque.
Video at 2 minutes in at
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/videos/2016-01-12/chelsea-clinton-joins-the-attack-as-sanders-rises
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)It will be fun to see an ad juxtaposing Hillary and Chelsea's current remarks, along with Hillary's rebuke of Obama in the 2008 campaign because "how dare any Democrat attack another over wanting universal health care" (paraphrased).
It is disgraceful how both of them have misrepresented his position on this. Especially to imply that he would dismantle what we have first, without having anything else in place. Bernie would never do that. He might fail to get single payer, of course. But at least he'll fight for it!
What they are doing is right out of the Republican playbook: misrepresent your opponent's position, distort it into something bad so you can play the FEAR FEAR FEAR card. "Oh that Bernie, he's going to pull the rug right out from under you!". As if.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...when, after getting her PhD from Oxford, she, who could have done anything in the world she wanted to -- she chose to work for a fucking hedge fund.
I did not hate her for it, but wondered, wtf? Now she is further showing her true colors so I have lost whatever remaining respect I had for her.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)As for Chelsea Clinton: I hope she doesn't aspire to a political career: there are already too many liers in D.C.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)HelenWheels
(2,284 posts)You are cannabolizing one of our own. The Repubs are bad enough without all of you giving them ammunition.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)Jarqui
(10,537 posts)it's the only way left for them to handle it.
60% of Americans do not trust Hillary Clinton. Those are repeated poll results. I'm not making that up.
The Republicans are already hammering away at "untrustworthy" with Hillary. They hammered away at Obama being a Muslim Kenyan and got 20% of the electorate to believe that. 60% are believing the untrustworthy label because Hillary has been caught lying a lot - there's some truth to the allegation so it sticks more.
I can't recall a presidential candidate in my lifetime getting elected president while 60% of the country finds them untrustworthy. It's a really bad polling number.
It's helping Bernie right now who is a significant contrast to that behavior.
It's a key reason why she is a turnoff as a candidate for me because I can't believe in what she's telling me - she's burned me too many times.
It's a problem Hillary cannot shake and here she is, sending her daughter out to carry on the family tradition of lying to the American people. Not a good moment for Hillary. That's self destruction/implosion.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)But more shame on Hillary herself.
And her daughter.
Proserpina
(2,352 posts)I don't support this kind of behavior from anyone, anywhere.
Uncle Joe
(60,401 posts)Thanks for the thread, ViseGrip.
azureblue
(2,341 posts)the diarist is full of it.
Duval
(4,280 posts)It was certainly a wrong move and Chelsea has damaged her own reputation.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)He ran a clip of Hill AND Chelsea both spewing their bullshit lies about Bernie's position on Single Payer.
WTF is with all that? It sounds like they are more (much more!) Right leaning than Progressive /Left.
Stunning and amazing!
Not Good Enough Hill.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)She's a politician in training. Really though, this is where the narrative of both parties being the same comes from. I know there's lots of important differences in actual policy, but there's still an underlying feeling that these professional politicians in our two party system aren't the least bit trustworthy and will still screw us over if it means some kind of personal gain for themselves.
While most of us will still vote for Hillary in the general should she win, this sort of dishonesty really hurts voter enthusiasm and probably contributes to the poor turnout in non-presidential years. Maybe she's a decent person and has some good policies she legitimately cares about. Hard to tell though when things like this happens.
bowens43
(16,064 posts)
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)No wonder so many see her as untrustworthy. You'd think she'd learn from past missteps, but apparently not.
karynnj
(60,071 posts)She is obviously close to her parents, but it is sad in both cases that she did not push back. Ironically, it would have helped HRC if Chelsea would have done so. HRC made those claims a few days ago and the result was negative, Chelsea repeating it and then HRC defending Chelsea made it at least a three day story.
From everything said of the Iowa Democratic caucus goer - this seems a very strange thing to do.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)And in this case it's rotten fruit.
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)We often either absorb or rebel for or against the bias of our parents.
Bear in mind the young woman grew up in a White House under seige by right wing bullshit and the American Spectator. I can understand why she would take her mother's side.
But, it still is spin and cynical misrepresentation at best and at worst it is a lie.
chapdrum
(930 posts)the Peter Peterson Foundation.
He being a prominent Reagan billionaire hack, who is trying to privatize or dismantle Social Security.
I learned on the same day the news of Chelsea and husband's purchase of an $8 mil. condo in
Manhattan's Flatiron Building.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)(Sounds more like the Students are being "Educated" to spread Pete Petersen's Fiscal Views. The link is to the Petersen Foundation's website) 
----------
Chelsea Clinton, George Stephanopoulos headline Up to Us judges panel
February 19, 2014
Up to Us, a project from the Peter G. Peterson Foundation, Clinton Global Initiative University (CGI U), and Net Impact, today announced its panel of judges for this year's college campus competition. The 2014 panel includes:
Chelsea Clinton: Vice Chair of the Clinton Foundation
Sen. Kent Conrad: former United States Senator and former Chairman of the Senate Budget Committee
Betty Liu: journalist and anchor of Bloomberg Television’s "In the Loop"
Sen. Olympia Snowe: former United States Senator, Senior fellow at the Bipartisan Policy Center
George Stephanopoulos: anchor of ABC‘s “This Week” and “Good Morning America"
http://www.pgpf.org/blog/chelsea-clinton-george-stephanopoulos-headline-us-judges-panel
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)but not Chelsea. Now both of Bush's Daughters look better besides Jenna
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Skwmom
(12,685 posts)azmom
(5,208 posts)My abuela was honest and forthright.
PatrickforO
(15,140 posts)the apple didn't fall too far from the tree?
Response to ViseGrip (Original post)
Corruption Inc This message was self-deleted by its author.
enid602
(9,124 posts)She has more experience in the Private Sector than Bernie has.