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Wed Oct 9, 2019, 01:11 PM

After Simple Request, Indiana Official Tells Atheists to Stop "Causing Trouble"


After Simple Request, Indiana Official Tells Atheists to Stop “Causing Trouble”
By Hemant Mehta, October 9, 2019

During a meeting of the Porter County Board of Commissioners in Indiana yesterday, there was a heated discussion over who could use the local courthouse lawn on December 6, where religious displays had previously been allowed.

For years now, a local non-profit group called Valparaiso Events has booked the space for a program called Holly Days. It falls on December 6 this year. In the past, the event featured a live Nativity scene.

There won’t be a Nativity this year for irrelevant reasons, but a question remains over whether any other group can also use the courthouse space that evening. The Northern Indiana Atheists requested space that same night for an informational table, display, and two signs.

But the Board said no.

“You want to be there for a specific reason,” (Commissioner Jim0 Biggs said.

“To celebrate the holiday,” (president of Northern Indiana Atheists Troy) Moss responded.

“I’m not going to sit up here and promote for you to be there at the same time as someone else to cause trouble,” Biggs said, his voice rising. “No one up here is denying you a date but we will dictate which day that is.”

“We requested it first,” (NIA vice president Daniel) Dick said.

Biggs was basically suggesting the atheists wanted cause trouble — not true — and that they were welcome to that space any other day, which suggests a preference for a Christian group.

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Reply After Simple Request, Indiana Official Tells Atheists to Stop "Causing Trouble" (Original post)
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Response to NeoGreen (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 04:48 PM

1. They should have said it was for Festivus

for the rest of us. My group celebrates it righteously every year.

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Response to NeoGreen (Original post)

Sat Oct 12, 2019, 05:29 PM

2. My first reply I deleted on accident

Ok if I got this right, I’m getting older...and sometimes a little slow on the uptake. Didn’t have the time to listen to the board meeting.

So this board in Indiana won’t allow Atheists a permit on Dec 6th, to use the courthouse lawn when it was left open this year, for irrelevant reasons (a live nativity was not going to be using it even though they have in the past). So the Atheists requested that date for a couple of signs and a table and it’s the Atheist causing trouble?!?. Because ....one religion owns December? :lol:

being snarky (if it’s a bitch to move a manger) probably should put it on wheels.

Nevertheless, the date was open but refused to be granted because the board wasn’t going to allow that special date to be used by Atheists. Instead the board decided when the Atheists could have their date. But definitely not on Dec 6.


How dare those Atheists decide which day they can request fair use of government property.

Atheists should have equal time for signage or a Pastafarnian dinner or even a secular winter festival if they asked for the day first but especially if it was available.

Atheists should be able to say to the community writ large “We know December for those that do not celebrate religious holidays is a real bitch, but you have support from other Atheists and FFRF, and we have a day in December to let you know we are out here to help and support.

To the board;

I will assume you will allow use of the lawn for Muslims after their break fast at Ramadan? Although both Eid al Adha and Eid al-Fitr Use a lunar calendar and the dates change, you won’t tell them they are “causing trouble” if their dates conflict with Easter or another Christian holiday? Assuming they followed the rule and asked for the date first?

If the Jewish community wanted to put up a menorah on December 23rd (first night of Hanukkah) and they asked first you wouldn’t deny them their date? Would you accuse them of causing trouble? Even if you had to move the nativity scene out, before returning it for Christmas Day? After all it’s 12 days during December, will you decide when the Jews can celebrate?

Lawsuits would be filed if ANY religious organization was left out and I agree religious organizations should get the date they request including non religious organizations. First come first serve.

My point (I knew I would get there);

We all wouldn’t have to do this if all religious groups stopped using their holiday to promote their beliefs on GOVERNMENT PROPERTY!
If they are insistent on placing a manger or any religious symbol and/or celebration on government property then all should be included period... If the day is open and the rules were followed then it should not be a big deal.

I again say, we wouldn’t have this problem in the first place if religions and their organizations quit insisting on blurring the lines of church and state and using government property for religious reasons. This would all go away. But as long as the petty shit about “happy holidays” vs “merry christmas” and my religion is better than yours continues, we will continue to fight the good fight. Keep the church out of the state.

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