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Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:59 AM

 

A mind grenade for the religious minded when we talk...

If there was no afterlife, would you still believe in god? I don't even need the answer, the point is to get them thinking about WHY they have faith, which I consider the primary weakness and biggest lie mankind has ever told themselves. This is my first discussion thread so hello and thanks for this space.

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Arrow 27 replies Author Time Post
Reply A mind grenade for the religious minded when we talk... (Original post)
happyaccident Jun 2019 OP
Sherman A1 Jun 2019 #1
flying_wahini Jun 2019 #2
Farmer-Rick Jun 2019 #3
happyaccident Jun 2019 #9
Susan Calvin Jun 2019 #13
Farmer-Rick Jun 2019 #19
FiveGoodMen Jul 16 #27
reACTIONary Jul 13 #23
DavidDvorkin Jun 2019 #4
happyaccident Jun 2019 #7
DavidDvorkin Jun 2019 #8
Susan Calvin Jun 2019 #14
DavidDvorkin Jun 2019 #15
Susan Calvin Jun 2019 #20
customerserviceguy Jun 2019 #5
Freelancer Jun 2019 #6
Freelancer Jun 2019 #10
Susan Calvin Jun 2019 #12
Freelancer Jun 2019 #16
Freelancer Jun 2019 #17
happyaccident Jun 2019 #18
reACTIONary Jul 13 #24
Susan Calvin Jun 2019 #21
Freelancer Jun 23 #22
reACTIONary Jul 13 #25
Susan Calvin Jun 2019 #11
Iggo Jul 14 #26

Response to happyaccident (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 10:02 AM

1. An interesting question

And interesting point.

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Response to happyaccident (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 10:06 AM

2. Good question - remove the bait.



Otherwise there is no bait to religion. LOL!

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Response to happyaccident (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 10:38 AM

3. Funny you should say that.

The death of a loved one forced me to confront the truth of atheism and the stupefying idiocy of religion.

Yet, my daughter has moved closer to a belief in a god because of the death. It gives her hope of seeing our loved one again.

I'm just tired of the constant lies that a belief in a god requires. It may hurt to know I've lost them forever but at least it's the truth.

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Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #3)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 05:10 PM

9. I don't question peoples beliefs like I used to

 

The older I get the more compassion and empathy I have. Life can be so hard sometimes that I don't feel I can help take something away which could be needed. Religions promise eternal bliss or endless agony.... I see the "faithful" as just more victims. I think the hardest thing for some people to handle is non-existence. However, you don't have to believe in a god or religion to believe in an afterlife. There's some interesting reincarnation threads over in Creative speculation. As a gardener and atheist philosopher I also like the philosophy of Epicurus which I consider kinder and more pleasant than those grumpy stoics. Happy Summer Solstice!!!!!

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Response to happyaccident (Reply #9)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 10:10 PM

13. I assume I'm not going to exist after I die .

It is the most reasonable assumption. That doesn't mean I can imagine it. I can't. I've tried. I can't. But I assume it is what is going to happen.

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Response to Susan Calvin (Reply #13)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 08:38 AM

19. I tried to get my head around not existing and I can't imagine it.

But obviously I didn't exist before I was born, so I know what it is like. It didn't hurt, it didn't feel like anything. So, I'm not too worried about it.

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Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #19)

Tue Jul 16, 2019, 04:55 PM

27. Exactly the way I feel about it.

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Response to Susan Calvin (Reply #13)

Sat Jul 13, 2019, 12:36 PM

23. I would compare it to ...

... a dreamless sleep. I can imagine that and (note scare quotes) even "experience" it.

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Response to happyaccident (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 11:45 AM

4. Historically, Judaism did not talk about the afterlife

I wasn't brought up to consider it a factor. My parents were religious without that.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #4)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 04:46 PM

7. Raised roman catholic, 8 years of school

 

The afterlife (mostly hell) was almost all they talked about. I had jewish friends growing up, I found their ability to argue about different tenets of their religion a welcome change from the fear and control games the catholics used on me. I wonder how many atheists here used to be catholic?

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Response to happyaccident (Reply #7)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 04:58 PM

8. In the Old Testament, punishment happens in this life

Sometimes instantaneously and brutally.

My parents believed in God and the tenets of their faith because anything else was unthinkable.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #8)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 10:15 PM

14. I have always said that if I was gonna be religious I would be Jewish.

I just like everything I know about it.

Except the bad things people have done with and to it, one more than the other, of course.

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Response to Susan Calvin (Reply #14)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 10:35 PM

15. Having grown up in it

I can't imagine going back into it. It's not superior to other religions, just different. It has plenty of its own inherent badness.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #15)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 09:39 PM

20. I'm sure you're right.

I think it's the traditions I liked more than the actual Bible. And I just adored Leo Rosten's The Joy of Yiddish.

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Response to happyaccident (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 02:17 PM

5. They would fight

your question's premise about an afterlife just as vigorously as they would defend the existence of their invisible skyfather.

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Response to Freelancer (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 10:08 PM

12. That is interesting.

I don't consider anything unknowable. I just consider it not known yet. How did he define unknowable?

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Response to Freelancer (Reply #17)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 06:54 AM

18. Thank you so much for that wisdom

 

It fits with how I deal with existence.I read Castanedas first book years ago, I just bought it to read again. after 25 years it should be interesting. I am half southwestern native american and am interested in exploring my ancestry. I have bits and pieces from my grandmother, she is, as she says " a proud wetback" I love my aboo ("abuela" and respect and miss my heritage. Thank you Freelancer(cool name) for your reply, after I read Castaneda's first I may holler back. Have an excellent Solstice!

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Response to happyaccident (Reply #18)

Sat Jul 13, 2019, 12:43 PM

24. I'm not saying it isn't worth reading, but...

... be aware that the book is a fraud. Read it as one would read The Prophet.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Carlos_Castaneda

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Response to Freelancer (Reply #10)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 09:40 PM

21. Thanks for the quotes.

I still don't buy his definition of unknowable. It's just gibberish to me .

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Response to Susan Calvin (Reply #21)


Response to Freelancer (Reply #10)

Sat Jul 13, 2019, 12:47 PM

25. Be aware that...


... be aware that the book is a fraud.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Carlos_Castaneda

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Response to happyaccident (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 10:05 PM

11. I can tell you from personal experience that's not gonna work for everybody.

My dad was straight up as to why he was religious. The afterlife. He told me when I was ready to die I would convert. Nope.

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Response to happyaccident (Original post)

Sun Jul 14, 2019, 12:40 PM

26. They refuse to even consider it.

I've tried it here, and in real life.

"Just assume, for the sake of argument, that there's no god."

They won't do it. (Well, no one has yet, for me anyway.)

EDIT: The instance of it happening here at DU, if I remember correctly, arose from a theist imploring me to at least consider that there might be a god, and his/her refusal to reciprocate. I wish I remembered who it was. Not one of the Gang Of Four, but definitely one of their apologists. Gettin' old. Can't remember shit.

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