Hybrid Neanderthal/Denisovan first generation child

[wnylib]

Last edited Tue Jun 7, 2022, 08:04 PM - Edit history (1)

DNA analysis of remains of 13 year old reveals a Neanderthal mother and Denisovan father. This is the first time that a first generation hybrid, with 50/50 DNA has been found.

The article suggests that part of the reason that Neanderthals and Denisovans no longer exist is that they were absorbed into the Sapiens population through interbreeding rather than due to disease or inter species fighting.

According to the article, everywhere in Asia and among Native Americans there is less than 1% Denisovan DNA. There is 5% Denisovan DNA in Papua New Guinea and among Aboriginal Australians.

One Denisovan legacy is a mutatin of gene EPAS1 that makes it easier for the body to access oxygen. This gene is found in 90% of Tibetans and 9% of Han Chinese.

I wonder if that gene variant accounts for the Native people of Peru where the people lived in the Andes Mountains and the Inca Empire used runners to carry messages at those mountain heights.

https://phys.org/news/2018-08-neandertal-mother-denisovan-fathernewly-sequenced-genome.html

[3catwoman3]

1. How interesting.

I often wonder about my ancient ancestors. What did they look like? Were they happy?

[wnylib]

2. One thing that fascinates me is

how many of our modern traits come from intermixing of our Sapiens ancestors with our hominin cousins like Neanderthals and Denisovans.

[sarge43]

8. It's believed that the mix with Neanderthals helped H. sapiens adapt to colder climates. n/t

[LastDemocratInSC]

11. Well, that explains my long time love for winter backpacking.

[packman]

6. No politics-no cell phones - no Trump-no TV

Of course they were happy - especially if cats (no saber-toothed ones) were around

[70sEraVet]

9. It's unfortunate that a phrase in that article colors our perception of what those people were like

"...distinct species of primitive human..."
The word 'primitive' is a perjorative. It implies that they were 'less developed', 'crude', 'lower'.
'Earlier' would be better.
Or maybe, 'Antique'! That would denote 'something of value'.
At some point, we may well discover that those earlier species were in many ways more advanced than us; that they were more caring family members, more accepting of differences among their neighbors, more curious and appreciative of the world around them.

[wnylib]

15. Agree that "earlier" is a better term.

But the article does at least mention that Neanderthals had a culture that included paintings and burials.

[multigraincracker]

3. Evidence of Neanderthal Replacement Theory.

Feared by current Neanderthals.

[AllaN01Bear]

4. hehe, you mean the native morans .

ur response was serious and i liked it

[multigraincracker]

7. Take a close look at MTG.

That's what I think when I look at her.

[AllaN01Bear]

10. or tfg . i get your meaning.:):):):)

[Judi Lynn]

17. So glad to see your post. That's the way I saw it from the very first photo. Totally unnerving.

Unlike any human I've ever seen.

Thanks!

[multigraincracker]

18. Low forehead, big brow

and small chin. If I could photoshop, I’d do that and then add some animal skins. What I thought from the get go.

[Scrivener7]

21. Nah. I'm told I have a very high percentage of Neanderthal and I'm good with it.

We're used to it!

[AllaN01Bear]

5. wow.

[niyad]

12. Thank you for sharing this fascinating information.

[Warpy]

13. No, Andean populations lacked the genes. What they had was coca

Coca leaves not only gave them a lift (rather like a cup of espresso) but also improved oxygen transport for distance running. A combination of stepped up red blood cell production, short stature, and coca allowed them to cope at altitude.

I had to relearn normal blood values when I moved to the Rockies from sea level. Just a mile up makes a big difference.

[wnylib]

19. Yes, coca is a great medicine for

altitude sickness.

Biochemistry is not my field, but from what I found in looking up genetic studies of their ability to live at high altitudes, the Quechua people of the Andes seem to have an evolved adaptation to the altitude, based on epigenetics and other gene factors. So coca is a supplement for them to treat milder symptoms of altitude sickness when they occur and to give them energy and stamina for activities, but not the sole factor in their adaptation to living in the Andes.

[Warpy]

22. No, I mentioned short stature and increased production of RBCs

The stature evolved as a strategy for living at very high altitude. The increased production of RBCs happens to all of us at altitude, which is why Olympic athletes train here and Denver. The extra RBCs mean that when they compete at low altitude, they have a much greater oxygen carrying ability that people who don't train at altitude.

I did find one study of hypoxia tolerance mitigated by genetics. While they didn't find the exact mechanism displayed by Tibetans, they did find one sequence that does nearly the same thing and seems to be in the process of being selected for at altitude.

Height: https://www.science.org/doi/pdf/10.1126/science.360.6390.696

Hypoxia mitigation: https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/11/the-genetic-basis-of-peruvians-ability-to-live-at-high-altitude/

[DFW]

14. When I was up high in the Andes, I absorbed one thing quickly

Namely the idea that I shouldn‘t go running anywhere!

[wnylib]

20. Did you try coca tea?

[DFW]

23. Must have forgotten

Actually, I was a guest of one of the governments there, so unless they slipped it into my breakfast, my chances of that were pretty much zip.

[wnylib]

24. I have not been to Peru, but I have

friends who were immigrants from Peru. According to them, coca leaves, tea, and candy are widely available everywhere as treatment for altitude sickness. There are vendors at the airports to sell these items to visitors when they get off the planes. Coca is legal in Peru in those forms.

As tea, chewable leaves, or candy, the coca is not addictive and does not have the effects that cocaine gives. The difference is that cocaine is pure, concentrated extract from the coca leaves. But in their natural form, they are medicinal. Peruvians use coca to treat upset stomachs, sore throats, and altitude sickness.

If you go again, get a cup if coca tea soon after deplaning. It will make you feel better, but not high. Well, at least not high in the sense of cocaine, just geologically high up.

[DFW]

25. If I ever get to Peru, I will, thanks for the advice!

I never made it there. I would have liked to have the time to travel around, but it was strictly a working trip--there for the time I was asked for, and then all the way back. Maybe next time. I liked the people and the scenery, and I used to live in Spain, so once I got used to the accent and the local expressions, there was no language problem.

[wnylib]

26. Local expressions - yeah, some of them are quite unique

to Peru. My friends are fluent in English, but whenever we got together with other Latin American friends (there's a huge group from all over Mexico, Central, and South America), everyone spoke Spanish. It was good practice for me. But the Peruvian words stumped me from time to time.

[DFW]

27. My friends always had an expression instead of "de nada"

Instead, they always answered "a la orden."

I thought thus was a radical enough departure from the standard "de nada" to ask them "¿a la orden de quien?" They, in turn, thought this was hilarious, and admitted that was local to their region. They get some TV shows from Spain, where no one says that, so they knew what I meant when I found it strange. I can put on a Latin American accent if need to, but when I speak Spanish without trying to affect a particular accent, I use the accent of the region of Spain where I lived, which they, in turn, recognize immediately. In Spain, if I'm in an area outside of Catalunya, they recognize a Catalan accent when I speak Castilian ("Spanish" ), but in Latin America, they just listen for ten seconds and say "ah, España." The most difficult for me is Cuban Spanish, since outside of the "m," consonants are forbidden. "Socialismo en Cuba" in Cuba is pronounced, " 'o'ia'i'mo e' u'a."

[wnylib]

28. ¿A la orden de quien? Que chistoso.

Last edited Wed Jun 8, 2022, 01:29 PM - Edit history (2)

There is a group of native Spanish speaking friends in my area.

This group of friends grew out of contacts that a Mexican American friend has made since she first came to the US. I was her English tutor through Literacy Volunteers. Her husband is American and they met while he was on vacation in Mexico. His American accent is so thick that it hurts my ears. He uses the flat American "a" instead of the Spanish "a."

She also took night classes in English through the local school district. She was homesick and made friends with everyone in the class who came from a Latin American country and a few from other countries, like Albania. I got included as the gringa friend.

We started meeting for birthdays. That expanded to holidays and various family events. The size of the group varies as some move away due to careers or college while other new ones join. When we all get together in a restaurant, we reserve two banquet tables or a room.
They come from Mexico, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Peru, Ecuador, Costa Rica, Colombia, and Brazil. The largest number is from Mexico. One is from Spain, but married to a Puerto Rican, so he has adopted more Latin American usages.

All of them (including me) say that Puerto Rican Spanish is the hardest to understand. The Mexicans are from Oaxaca, Guadalajara, Tijuana, and Chiapas (Mayan descent, met her American husband when he was in the Peace Corps). So there are a variety of Mexican dialects in the group. Portuguese is similar enough that we can usually understand the Brazilian, and she knows some Spanish and English for clarification if necessary.

I adopted Latin American grammar usage early on. I understand Castilian from Spain, but I am too used to Latin American pronouns and second person verb endings to speak "Spaniard." Venezuelan pronunciation is very close to Castillian, but with L.A. pronouns. So is Mexican, except for the Nahuatl influence.

I don't have any direct experience with Catalan or with Cuban Spanish. There is one Cuban woman in the group, but she refuses to use Spanish and I've only heard her speak English - perfectly, without an accent. Her family came here when she was a child.

We've had some hilarious experiences with occasional misunderstandings due to dialect, or, in my case once, missing the ending of a word and taking it for a different one. I love the Mexican sense of humor, very dry and at times, a kind of gallows humor.

[DFW]

29. I don't come in contact with many Latin Americans over here

There was a family of Mexicans with us when we went up to the top of Mauna Kea two months ago. The wind was over 70 mph and it was -8° C.

When we finally sought refuge back in the minivan that brought us up there, we were all commenting in our respective languages about how cold it was. The Mexicans assumed none of us spoke any Spanish until I said, „si alguien encuentra un par de orejas congeladas en el suelo, son mías.“ This got a round of serious laughs out of the Mexicans, as well as pleased surprise that one of us gringos spoke it at all.

That wasn‘t even my best linguistic shock treatment in Hawai‘i. In the tiny town of Honoka‘a, where my sister knew of a bakery owned by the family of friends, we popped into a store with some koa bowls. Much to my shock, I heard Catalan being spoken by a couple of other tourists who popped in. My shock was nothing like THEIR shock when I started talking to them in Catalan. They pegged me as a Catalan who wasn‘t from Barcelona, as I did them. I was right, as they were from Sitges, south of Barcelona. Although they were right about me also not being from Barcelona, they were not prepared for where I WAS from

[wnylib]

30. I sometimes surprise people in local stores

by using Spanish. Ex: Two women looking at a blouse. One blouse is blue; the other is red. They are discussing the choice in Spanish. I mutter "azul" as I walk past them. This starts a conversation with me about the occasion for the blouse and other details.

I use a kind of "neutral" Latin American Spanish, like a broadcast announcer might use. I've been told that it sounds authentic to native Spanish speakers, but puzzling about place of origin.

You will probably catch my mistake in this incident. One day when I was still adjusting from using classroom Spanish to real world usage, I was giving my Mexican friend a lift to the home of a friend of hers. Her English was still at an early beginner's stage, so she gave me directions in Spanish. When she said, "derecho," I put on my right turning signal. She said, "No, no. ¡Derecho!" I thought maybe she meant that I was turning too soon, so I turned off the turning signal until I got to the next block, then put it on again.

I should explain that, although I live in a small city, we do have a rush hour and we were on a main street in heavy traffic. People around me were getting annoyed at my slowing down, speeding up, and putting my turning signal on and off.

Again, she said, "No. Te dije derecho.'" Me, emphatically: "No entiendo. Estoy yendo a la derecha." Her: "Si, es derecha, pero dije derecho."

So I pulled into a parking lot. She wrote the two words on a piece of paper and circled the last letter of each. Like many English speakers, I had not paid attention to the word endings. She said derecho, but I heard derecha, which I was more familiar with.

But she made her own mistake - in her native Spanish - and it was a doozy. I was not present, but heard about it from mutual friends. She had been an instructor at a two year secretarial school in Guadalajara, so she volunteered to produce Spanish bulletins for the Spanish language mass at her church here in my town. She produced several copies of a sheet that had the priest's lines to say and the congregation's responses. One line was, "Jesus los hara´ pescadores de hombres." She had made a typo that left out the first "s" so that it read "pecadores." Another friend saw the typo when handing out the program sheets and grabbed a pen to insert the "s" where it belonged.

[DFW]

31. She must have been hanging around with too many Cubans or Nicaraguans

Those are two of the worst places for not pronouncing consonants, so to a Nicaraguan or a Cuban, "pescador" and "pecador" would be pronounced practically the same, since they wouldn't pronounce an "s" in the middle of a word, whether it should have been there or not.

[wnylib]

32. No Nicarauguans. Only one Cuban who always

spoke English. Puerto Ricans drop the "s" somtimes. They also drop endings from other words, and blend one or two words - or a whole string of them - together so quickly that it's hard to know what they are saying. Add to that the mix of English words that they Latinize and it's hard to understand them, even for Native Spanish speakers of other countries. (Like Aussie English often is not intelligible to me.) Example of Puerto Rican Spanglish: el roofo instead of el techo. I have only heard it spoken, have not seen it written. Wonder if it would be spelled rufo when written.

[relayerbob]

16. I expected a picture of Don, Jr.