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rug

(82,333 posts)
Thu Jan 7, 2016, 08:38 PM Jan 2016

Catholic service to be held in King Henry VIII's chapel for first time in 500 years

The service is designed to celebrate the music played in the chapel at Hampton Court Palace



Ian Johnston | 8 minutes ago|

A Roman Catholic service is to be held in Hampton Court Palace’s chapel for the first time in nearly five centuries, according to a report.

Hampton Court was one of King Henry VIII’s favourite palaces and he worshipped in the then-Catholic Chapel Royal with Catherine of Aragon before his desire for a divorce saw him split with Rome and create the Church of England.

But next month Cardinal Vincent Nichols, the Catholic Archbishop of Westminster, will hold a Catholic service of vespers, sung mainly in Latin, for the first time since the 16th century, The Daily Telegraph reported. He will be joined by the Rt Rev Richard Chartres, the Anglican Bishop of London, for the service which is designed to celebrate the music played in the chapel.

The idea for the service came from the Choral Foundation, a music charity based at the Chapel Royal, and the Genesis Foundation, an arts charity.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/catholic-service-to-be-held-in-king-henry-viiis-chapel-for-first-time-in-500-years-a6801696.html

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Catholic service to be held in King Henry VIII's chapel for first time in 500 years (Original Post) rug Jan 2016 OP
I suppose I should repost on Henry VIII's annulment from Catherine of Aragon Fortinbras Armstrong Jan 2016 #1
Fascinating and informative. rug Jan 2016 #2

Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,473 posts)
1. I suppose I should repost on Henry VIII's annulment from Catherine of Aragon
Fri Jan 8, 2016, 08:44 AM
Jan 2016

Henry VII arranged a marriage between his eldest son, Arthur, and Catherine of Aragon, daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain. Five months after the wedding, Arthur died. The king wanted both to maintain the political alliance with Spain and to keep the dowry that Catherine brought (over a million in today's currency, which would have had to be repaid out of the Privy Purse). So he decided to marry his second son, Henry, to Catherine.

There was a problem: Under Church marriage law, one could not marry one's deceased spouse's sibling. However, this was just a "simple impediment", not a "dire impediment". A simple impediment can be gotten round with a dispensation, while a dire impediment cannot -- ie, marrying one's sister is a dire impediment, but marrying one's deceased spouse's brother is not.

So King Henry went to the Archbishop of Canterbury, Warham, to get a dispensation. Warham was then in a political fight with the King and refused to grant the dispensation; but Henry twisted his arm, and Warham gave in. Henry then applied to the Vatican for their approval -- Pope Julius II rubber stamped the dispensation and the fullness of time Henry and Catherine were married.

Twenty-some years later, it was obvious that Catherine, now in menopause, was not going to give Henry the son he so desperately craved. (Henry wanted a son, not just out of male chauvinism, but also out of awareness that the last time an English king died with a daughter as his heir, there was a civil war, and Henry did not want that.) The incest that Henry was committing was preying on his mind -- that he had fallen in love with the young and beautiful Anne Boleyn was, of course, quite irrelevant.

Recall that Henry VII had twisted Archbishop Warham's arm to get the dispensation for his son's betrothal to Catherine. Church marriage law says is that if any party to the marriage is acting under duress, the marriage is void. So Henry VIII requested an annulment on the grounds that the dispensation was improperly given. People such as Henry's sister Margaret had been given annulments on much slimmer grounds.

However, Catherine did not want her marriage annulled. She claimed that she loved Henry; a dubious claim at best, since Henry did not treat her well. It is far more likely that Catherine did not want Mary to lose her place as Henry's only legitimate heir. After all, should Henry remarry and have a son, this son would take precedence over Mary as Henry's heir.

So, Catherine counter-attacked on two fronts: One based in Church marriage law, and the other purely political. In Church marriage law, in order for a marriage to be valid, two things must happen. The first is an exchange of vows before witnesses, and there was no question that this had happened when Catherine married Arthur. The second is that the marriage must be consummated. Catherine claimed that she and Arthur had never consummated their marriage. Thus, the dispensation was irrelevant, and her marriage to Henry was, in fact, her first marriage.

Now, this claim should have gone nowhere. Under Church marriage law, the burden of proof would have been on Catherine, and the operative word there is "proof". I'm sure that 16th century divorce lawyers and judges knew just as well as their 21st century counterparts do, that all parties in a divorce probably lie. Catherine's unsupported word should not have sufficed, and at the time she made this claim, she was not a virgo intacta. Thus, she had no support for her claim, let alone any proof.

Another thing that Church marriage law says is that dubious claims about the validity of the marriage are to be dismissed in favor of the marriage being valid.

However, her other point of attack was that she asked her nephew Charles to oppose the annulment. Charles held several titles: King of Spain, Holy Roman Emperor and King of Naples. Charles disliked Henry both personally and politically -- Charles and Henry had entered an alliance against France which Henry broke at the Field of the Cloth of Gold, and Charles felt that Henry had betrayed him. In 1527, Naples and the Papal States had a war, which the Pope lost. Some of Charles' troops sacked Rome.

Pope Clement did not want a rerun of that war, so he pretended to take Catherine's claim of non-consummation seriously. There were Papal Delegates, special commissions of enquiry and so on. Basically, Clement was stalling.

Finally, Henry forced Clement's hand. He pushed through some laws in Parliament, one saying that marriage questions could be settled locally, another saying that all English clergy owed their first allegiance to the crown and a third saying that the Peter's Pence collection (an annual collection in each parish going directly to the Vatican) and the Annates (essentially a tax on Church properties that also went to the Vatican) should go to the Exchequer instead of to Rome. Clement was Not Amused, and decreed against Henry's annulment.

Thus, the actual reason for Clement's action was politics and money.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
2. Fascinating and informative.
Fri Jan 8, 2016, 11:03 AM
Jan 2016

Catherine's claim that her first marriage was not consummated actually played into Henry's hand. That would be a material fact that had not been revealed, giving Henry the additional claim that the sacramental marriage was invalid on the basis of fraud. It wold have rendered the whole dispensation argument irrelevant.

On the bright side, I would hate to see what an alliance between the Roman Catholic Church and England would have looked like during the height of British imperialism.

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