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mykpart

(3,879 posts)
Fri Jul 26, 2013, 05:52 PM Jul 2013

Personal musings on papal infallibility

First off, don't pounce on me. I firmly believe that the Pontiff is guided by the Holy Spirit in matters of faith and morals. And when he speaks ex cathedra I will observe his pronouncements as God's will, even if I think they conflict with common sense. That said, I also believe that the Pope has free will, and that free will doesn't disappear when he is crowned Pope. Therefore, it would seem that it is possible for him to misinterpret the guidance of the Holy Spirit and interject his own will from time to time. If this were not true, it wouldn't matter who is pope, and the cardinals wouldn't have to take the selection so seriously. For the pope to be incapable of error would mean that he has no free will. I also believe that most popes agree with me about this, and that is why they are reluctant to make ex cathedra statements unless it is about something like the divinity of Jesus.

This is the quandary of Catholics. We are to obey all rules and regulations from Cardinals and Bishops AS IF they were ex cathedal pronouncements from the Holy Father. I can do that, I can obey. But I can't always accept internally that they are right. And if I read correctly, that makes me guilty of mortal sin. Externally I am a good practicing Catholic. Internally, I keep my doubts to myself. Should I confess them to a priest? What good would that do if I'm not sorry? I would like to read other Catholic's thoughts about this issue. Please don't just refer me to Vatican documents. I can do that on my own.

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Personal musings on papal infallibility (Original Post) mykpart Jul 2013 OP
There are very few statements that are considered infallible. Very few. rug Jul 2013 #1
Very important point tjwmason Jul 2013 #2
Unfortunately, the Vatican is trying to get cute Fortinbras Armstrong Jul 2013 #3
 

rug

(82,333 posts)
1. There are very few statements that are considered infallible. Very few.
Fri Jul 26, 2013, 07:17 PM
Jul 2013

The conditions under which a pronouncement is considered infallible are very stringent.

In all other areas, the Pope is as fallible as anyone.

If there's a particular statement that's troubling, I'd look it up and see if it is indeed deemed an infallible statement. If by chance it was, I'd chew on that statement thoroughly before accepting it unquestioningly.

tjwmason

(14,819 posts)
2. Very important point
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 04:52 AM
Jul 2013

If the Pope really enjoys his breakfast one morning and praises the cook saying "your scrambled eggs are the best breakfast in the world" that's certainly not infallible.

Also, it's important to consider what has been said infallible statements are very tightly written. It's easy, but incorrect, to assume that a definition includes other closely related issues.

Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,473 posts)
3. Unfortunately, the Vatican is trying to get cute
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 10:03 AM
Jul 2013

In 1998. Pope John Paul II issued an Apostolic Letter, Ad Tuendam Fidem, which says in part

Each and every thing definitively proposed by the magisterium of the Church regarding faith and morals … must also be firmly accepted and held; one who denies [such] propositions…opposes the doctrine of the Catholic Church."


Basically, this says that if the Pope says something "definitively", it is de facto infallible.

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued an immediate follow-up which gives some specific examples -- notably papal blathering on the ordination of women and an encyclical of Leo XIII saying that Anglican ordinations were invalid -- and also saying, "hey, we can issue 'definitive' stuff as well".

The term for this is "creeping infallibility".
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