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Tue May 13, 2014, 01:07 PM

Saturn transits Scorpio

My natal has Saturn in Scorpio in the troublesome situation of the 4th house. No one has ever been able to offer any insight into how this placement might be utilized. It was just "trouble". Now Tom Lescher has provided the way.

This was the fall of 2013, my second Saturn return. It's especially meaningful for me, but what he says ALWAYS has universal appeal and application.

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply Saturn transits Scorpio (Original post)
Why Syzygy May 2014 OP
Ricochet21 May 2014 #1
Ricochet21 May 2014 #2
Why Syzygy May 2014 #3
Why Syzygy May 2014 #4
Ricochet21 May 2014 #10
magical thyme May 2014 #5
Why Syzygy May 2014 #6
magical thyme May 2014 #7
Why Syzygy May 2014 #8
magical thyme May 2014 #9
Why Syzygy May 2014 #11
magical thyme May 2014 #15
Why Syzygy May 2014 #17
southerncrone May 2014 #12
Why Syzygy May 2014 #13
southerncrone May 2014 #14
magical thyme May 2014 #16
southerncrone May 2014 #18
magical thyme May 2014 #19
southerncrone May 2014 #21
magical thyme May 2014 #20

Response to Why Syzygy (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 03:07 PM

1. My 2 cents

you have to study your 12th harmonic to discover what disciplinary forces were at work on you in your past life. It is hard in the IV and harder in Scorpio because of Scorpios tendency to be unforgiving. It means that you have deep karma to settle with family but can actually be a strong symbol that you are strong and steady emotionally.

By Solar Arc direction, we see the main crisis in this life happened around age 1. Whatever that was, it was predetermined by your "players" in between life. Your Saturn placement is triply difficult because it squares the ascendant, leaning you towards difficulty in letting things flow in relationships. I know, because I have Saturn within 1/2 degree of square to mine from Libra in the IX.

Your 12th harmonic: shows SEVEN planets in the late VI or VII, indicating tremendous pressure you put on yourself to be the perfect mate.... etc. This life, that's WHY Saturn is so strong in IV because you are here to learn self-forgiveness. It's that simple, self-forgiveness. imho

Saturn is in Taurus in X in the 12th Harmonic, this means, after you learn this, you'll be ready to be an expert teacher on the same subject; now is the time with the great emphasis on Uranus in Aries and the Cross. Leo's tendency is to look to others who fail to give you respect, once you learn the gift is in the wound and give yourself respect, look out, you'll be completing your karmic syndrome.

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Response to Ricochet21 (Reply #1)

Tue May 13, 2014, 03:09 PM

2. Never

accept any astrological construct that implies all negative traits, they are never negative, they are just energies and how you use them.

When two energies fail to "mix", one has to raise one's sight to a higher vibration to see, in fact, how all of life's archetypal energies can "go together", imho

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Response to Ricochet21 (Reply #1)

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Response to Why Syzygy (Reply #4)

Wed May 14, 2014, 11:43 AM

10. Saturn is very misunderstood

there is a karmic side to it, of course

In most cases, since Saturn = "make sure", many of our difficulties with it are from worrying too much about the area/aspects in which it is found. We try too hard. We stop flowing instead replacing trust with effort and control.

That pretty much answers all Saturnian questions.

Wherever Saturn is, we just have to let things be.

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Response to Why Syzygy (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:07 PM

5. thank you for posting this, WS


I also have Saturn in Scorpio, at just about 0 degrees, with my sun in Scorpio as well. If I understand houses correctly, its in my 2nd house. So I have also been experiencing my 2nd Saturn return.

Between the Grand Cross last week and tomorrow's full moon in Scorpio with the sun opposing in Taurus, both at 24 degrees, well, I've been having a rough time of it.

I made a major mistake -- I knew better, but was "greedy" (really, desperate) for time off, so will lose several hundred dollars that I really can't afford to lose. I am trying to forgive myself for that...really, I just so desperately need some time to take care of my farm, my critters, and my self. But just as I was about to actually have a little padding in my paycheck to paycheck existance, it's gone.

Last Saturday, I woke up at 3:30 am and couldn't fall back to sleep. I'd had fun plans for Saturday and saw them disappearing into my insomnia, and went into a anger mode that I haven't fallen into in years...literally smacking myself in the face and head screaming "stupid, you're so stupid, stupid, stupid." And then collapsed in exhaustion and pain, before I start trying to self-soothe and be gentle with myself. I think it may be replays of childhood memories of being beaten...not sure. At least this time I didn't get any bruises. My poor dogs were so upset. Jake retreated to the furthest corner of the bed, Luna to the corner of the room.

Hopefully the lunation tomorrow will bring some insight and healing power with it. For both of us.

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #5)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:37 PM

6. That sounds

awful. I'm sorry you went through that. I'm going to PM a link.

I learned TM, or mindfulness, meditation. Now when I have insomnia I just meditate instead.
I also read years ago that an hour of resting in bed equals 20 minutes of sleep.
I wake up all crazy hours too.

I hope you get as much from the video as I did/do. I'm still soaking. The transit is about restructuring ourselves. I found a series of internet radio shows that has helped me deal with childhood trauma more than all the counseling I've had. When I was young, I though it was something from which I could recover. It's isn't. But it is treatable. Maybe some people heal. I focus on nurturing my brain (Dr. Amen or Dr. Pulmutter). It was actually damaged by childhood. The emotional stuff ... Just make new happiness Today.

edit to say: I'm not going to post the link to the radio series at DU. I'm able to listen to viewpoints on which I do not agree while appreciating the material that is pertinent to me. That isn't allowed at DU.

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Response to Why Syzygy (Reply #6)

Wed May 14, 2014, 06:07 AM

7. your last 2 sentences made me laugh...


thank you for the link. is there a particular episode of the radio show that is relevent?

When I go into that mode, meditation is not possible. there is little to no warning; it's as though a switch has turned and part of me is outside of me watching helplessly while some other part abuses me. after it is over, then yes, meditation helps me to recover. also I stroke my wrists after, which helps me self-sooth. I think that is a memory from when I was born. I had a memory, during hypnosis, of my mother rejecting me at birth "take it away. I don't want it. I never wanted it," and a nurse carrying me away and then laying me down and stroking my wrists, telling somebody what happened and what would become of me.

p.s. I checked out discussionist while at work last night. I'm tempted to start a topic over there on airplane exhaust

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #7)

Wed May 14, 2014, 06:47 AM

8. I've listened to

several of the radio show recordings.
I'd rather just let anyone else take a shot, trusting your higher self to find what you need among them.
It was by listening to them that I became okay with not being a perfect mother. They have helped me accept my less than perfect actions, at times. My son and fam have been here 10 days, and that inner transformation has made a huge difference in the way we have interacted. Even though there are many disagreeable things if you branch out into his other work, he really knows family caused damage.

Check into the herb, Rhodiola.

ps. I've been going through an argument on a facebook friend's page, re: "airline exhaust". It has made me look at a LOT of 'evidence'. Actually, even though I still don't agree with this friend, the research has refined my understanding It goes without saying, it's a very divisive subject. I'm going to be someone completely different at Discussionist. I've been around DU for 11 years in one form or another. I AM different. Have some fun over there!

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Response to Why Syzygy (Reply #8)

Wed May 14, 2014, 09:23 AM

9. I have the morning off so it's a good time for listening...


I've already listened to the Kaypacha interview you posted, and he hasn't posted this weeks Pele report yet, so I still have time to start looking through. Hopefully my higher self will come through for me.

Thank you about the Rhodiola tip. I had read about it recently (I think here on DU, also from you) and have a note to myself somewhere around about it.

I'm glad you've now ok with your perfect, imperfect self. I hope your family is also ok with the transformed you, and realizes that they, too, are perfectly imperfect. We all have days and situations that end up not going as planned or hoped. Procrastinate a few minutes or forget one tiny detail, and everything snowballs into life's agenda, instead of our own .

Sometimes people can be right in the generalities, yet have the details all wrong. I never had heard anything about "airplane exhaust" (maybe. because I was on dialup) until DU. "They" could be poisoning us or whatever, but in some other insidious way. Although these days there really is no need for secrecy. They have no problem whatsoever openly poisoning our water supply with fracking chemicals, food with roundup, killing off the bees and other pollinators, etc.

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #9)

Wed May 14, 2014, 06:28 PM

11. Not me..

I just learned about Rhodiola, probably from the same person here that you did! (thanks!) I put it in my shopping cart at iherb, where it usually has to sit for a few weeks until payday . But I started it about 10 days ago. I'm feeling a little lighter, less gloom. It's not an 'upper', but it seems to have a nice, gentle lift to outlook. At the same time I started a brain enhancer, Huperzine A. I'm still forgetting stuff, so that hasn't kicked in yet. And of course fish oil is a staple for brain health.

I don't think the Disconsionist is going to allow convo's about *exhaust* either. My conclusions don't match up with known 'conspiracy theories'. But there is a problem. The NIH has done research on the effects of Barium on triggering MS. There are a number of ways to become contaminated, one being the 'chaff' that military aircraft deploy. Etc.

I like the way Tom explains male/female energies in this video. I've yet to take notes on it, so it is still nebulous. If I don't SEE, I don't know.

** I never said I was "okay" . LOL!

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Response to Why Syzygy (Reply #11)

Thu May 15, 2014, 09:10 AM

15. we probably read it in the same place, then


Ok, so I'm glad you're "ok with not being a perfect mother" or whatever it was you meant to say...

I listened to 2 short segments and then found a 3rd, longer one with a title that I thought would be a good fit. It was dead on. The caller actually said something about "not being good enough" (for his mother) and Mr. Host blew. That was *so* helpful to me. He said that to say those words was to attack himself and he should never, ever attack himself. And then he turned the statement around.

So now I'm replacing "No matter what I do, it never seems to be good enough" with "He/She/It simply doesn't want to be pleased." Which is more accurate, anyway!

The one way (so far) in which I think he is off is when he criticizes women from a generation+ ago who should have "just kept their legs together." He doesn't recognize that women didn't have a lot of options regarding working and being able to support themselves. He totally misses that getting married was literally the only "legitimate" way to secure a living for the vast majority of women.

I'm already feeling less gloom just from having been through the therapy session. And it's already had a positive impact in terms of the hospital job. I was able to secure 3 extra days of work over the next 2 weeks, which makes up for the losses from the other job. And I had a positive conversation with the manager about training at the sister "urgent care center."

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #15)

Thu May 15, 2014, 10:11 AM

17. sqeeee!

You know, it might be that he is the first person to ever stand up for us, albeit in a third person kind of way. I know!

And, yes, there are many little things like that, "legs", that I might argue with, but he is such a champ for the abused I just overlook.

I'm so very thrilled that you found the right thing.

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Response to Why Syzygy (Original post)

Wed May 14, 2014, 08:51 PM

12. Saturn in Scorpio is strongly placed in my chart, too.

It, along w/Mercury & my Sun are in my 1st house. The full Moon today is exactly conjunct my natal 1st house Saturn at 24 degrees.

I made a point of meditating today during that transit. During that meditation, I focused on going deep & connecting w/Source & my guides. The message I received was that I have been too self-critical & need to just let life unfold. No surprise I tend to worry (Saturn in 1st in Scorp) and over analyze things. The message was freeing on a certain level. I have given up my power to others for waaaay too long & I need to stop. I have given for others enough; it is now time to give to ME. It is not a selfish thing, it is a healing thing, as I have been abusing myself by giving my energy to others instead of allowing myself to be who I am. I will never feel "guilty" again for not putting others' needs above my own. I have overpaid my debt & now I can grow & fly! I deserve it! I simply need to TRUST & HAVE FAITH that all will be ok.
It will.


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Response to southerncrone (Reply #12)

Response to Why Syzygy (Reply #13)

Wed May 14, 2014, 10:42 PM

14. Hi, Why!

My Saturn return is not until next yr, 24 degrees. I'm a 29 degree Sun Scorp, so I'm at the tail end....the STINGER! LOL

My first return produced my marriage. I'm excited to see what this one brings next yr. Hopefully something BETTER this time! LOL

I have been the "fixer" or "the one who deals w/the unpleasant social dealings" in my family. I don't mean in the diplomatic, Libran manner, but in the "in your face", "halt & desist" Scorpion manner. LOL You & I have discussed our childhood issues & our mothers b/4. I think I am finally coming to terms w/that relationship. Again, I am not solely shouldering the responsibility for that anymore. Done.with.it. It held me back far too long. I refuse to allow it to hog-tie my worth anymore.

I'm finished doing the "dirty work" for others, not to mention giving up my life & desires for them & their desires. And believe me, when a Scorpio is DONE w/something......They.are. DONE!!! Never looking back. I think that is because we are so INVESTED in things that once we analyze & make a decision, we have hashed it over in our minds so much that the decision is the ultimate end. No more wasting time on it.

Anyway, like so many others these days, I believe we are realizing that we can no longer afford to not be there for ourselves. I don't mean in a selfish way, but again, a healing way. So many in our generation (especially the women) have been enabling others for far too long. We cannot move forward as a species if each of us is not carrying our own weight & responsible for our own decisions & actions. When we enable others, we disable the growth of our species. (That's my theory & I'm sticking to it! )

I'm also setting my intention. Beware the pouncers & leaches!

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Response to southerncrone (Reply #14)

Thu May 15, 2014, 09:25 AM

16. Wow...everything you're writing so totally resonates...


and when I typed the title, I "accidentally" first typed "everything you're righting..." which works even better, I think!

My sun is in scorpio at 6 degrees and mercury is at 29 degrees. Does that mean my mouth is where my stinger is?

My first saturn return brought me my conductor and ended with me starting my old career. This return started with my hospital stalker being fired and moving out of state! Due to it's brief reappearance late in 2015, it will end shortly before I become eligible for social security.

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #16)

Fri May 16, 2014, 12:52 AM

18. "Everything you are RIGHTING" much better describes the temper of my feelings!

My guess, MT, is that you can sting mightily w/your mouth! Words are swords when you choose to use them as your weapons.
I seem to recall from previous posts here over the years, you & I have quite a few similarities in our charts. I don't know about you, but I've been in a state of stagnation for the past 3 yrs. I would refer to it as a state of limbo hovering over a deep abyss. Immobilized, yet nervous about what awaits. Hopefully this is a time for me to break free from that stagnation. During that time my self-image & self-worth have plummeted to an extreme low. I need to be that phoenix rising up from these ashes. My restless spirit needs some action. How about you?

BTW, I have:
Scorpio= Ascendent, Sun, Merc, Saturn (All 1st house)
Aquarius=Moon (3rd house conjunct my Nadir)

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Response to southerncrone (Reply #18)

Fri May 16, 2014, 07:46 AM

19. yes. unable to move forward on anything


Yes. And I just need life to cut me a break, for a change. I've worked myself to physical and mental exhaustion, and am at a point where I'm not even treading water any more, but barely floating. Every time it looks like I'll have a breakthrough, it all dissolves or is snatched away. Or I fix one thing and another one breaks.

It's been 3 years since I finished school. Lab won't hire me p/t or give me enough per diem hours to live on; has no legit reason not to hire me and no justification to fire me. My guess is due to director's eff up early on; she's dug into defensive/denial mode. To hire me would be to admit her wrong. I'd be happy to move on, but my semi-presence there means no other lab will touch me because they figure something must be wrong with me if the one I'm at won't hire me.

Virgo = ascendent at 21 degrees
Scorpio = Saturn at 0-1 degrees, Sun at 6 degrees, Mercury at 29 degrees
Leo = Moon at 15 degrees

If I understand it correctly (somebody please correct me if I'm getting it all wrong!) then: my 1st house starts at 21 degrees Virgo; my second starts at 21 degrees Libra, putting Saturn and Sun in Scorpio 2nd house; my 3rd starts at 21 degrees Scorpio w/Mercury (my poison pen can slice and dice too ) , and my Leo moon is in 11th house.

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #19)

Fri May 16, 2014, 11:40 PM

21. Depending on the house "system" one chooses to cast your horoscope,

the house degrees may vary. I prefer Placidus, but there are others. If you haven't done so, go to: www.astro.com & you can get your chart. But yes, your 1st house begins w/your Ascendent (Virgo 21 degrees). With your Virgo ascendent & Saturn & Sun in Scorp in the 2nd, coupled w/ merc in the 3rd in Scorp, I'd say a career as a critic might be in order. Or possible an investigative journalist! But working in a lab certainly falls in line w/Scorp in 2nd, especially w/Virgo rising. Details rule the day.

My "career" situation is also in a quandary position...trying to "start over" at this age is a problem. I'm too tired to dig my way up from the bottom again & tired of reinventing myself. I'm hoping the economy will pick up enough that employers will at least look at those of us over 50 again. But I will do what I have to do. Like always. Some things never change!

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Response to Why Syzygy (Original post)

Fri May 16, 2014, 09:44 AM

20. Pele report for w/o 5/14 seems particularly relevent here...


I forgot to listen to this yesterday...


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