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WolverineDG

(22,298 posts)
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 05:25 PM Feb 2014

What's the deal with Richard III?

Ok, I admit, I'm a nerd who has long had a fascination with medieval English history. Initially, it started with the Tudors, but after I read a spectacular book by Sharon K. Penman about Richard III (Sunne in Splendour), I've expanded that interest to the Plantagenets. And the past two years have been amazing for those interested in the story of Richard III, with the "discovery" of his remains. I "knew" that when they found bones on day 1 of the dig, that they had found Richard. I don't know how I knew, I just did in my gut. (BTW, if you're even remotely interested in pre-Tudor England, I highly recommend any of Penman's books)

Note: If you only paid slight attention to the story, you'd think "wow, what a lucky guess" when they essentially struck pay dirt on Day 1 of the dig, but in reality, they started digging right where an "R" had been painted on the parking lot. Turns out, the spot where Richard was buried has been marked since the early 1600's, first by a statue of some sort & then with a simple "R." So, they knew where he was, just scientists saying "it's only speculation, not proved" keep the falsehood of "grave unknown" alive. (I was curious as to where this R came from & this is what my searching, after the discovery, found; I did not know any of this when I first heard the news of this dig.)

Along with this is 500 years of anti-Richard propaganda, helped by the fact that records of this time period are sketchy & most of what survives comes from (shock) those who were beneficiaries of the Tudors or were wanting to keep their heads on their shoulders.

But now it seems that there are Richardians everywhere! One in particular spearheaded the project which recovered his remains, & now there is a highly-contested case over where the King's remains should be officially interred. Discussion of this topic was so heated, that it is now banned on the Richard III Society's FB page! WTH

I admit, when I saw the facial reconstruction of Richard III, I gasped. Chills ran up & down my spine. There is one depiction in particular, with a rendering of this reconstruction under the word "Justice" that has really shaken me up.

WHY? It just does. I mean, I know that the Truth comes out, but why now, 500 years after he died? What purpose does it serve? Why are so many people still so emotional over where to bury someone who's been dead for half a millennia?

22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What's the deal with Richard III? (Original Post) WolverineDG Feb 2014 OP
I LOVE all this emerging about him. Squinch Feb 2014 #1
Yes, I got a copy of that book from my cousin but misplaced it WolverineDG Feb 2014 #2
Oh! look at that! Squinch Feb 2014 #3
The thing that struck me most forcefully okasha Mar 2014 #4
It's funny he was called "short" WolverineDG Mar 2014 #5
The scoliosis may not have affected okasha Mar 2014 #6
Also: "The Murders of Richard III" by Elizabeth Peters LiberalEsto Mar 2014 #12
Anything by EP is a fun read. okasha Mar 2014 #13
You know Ms. Peters died not long ago. murielm99 Mar 2014 #15
I had wondered okasha Mar 2014 #16
I saw her obituary in the Washington Post LiberalEsto Mar 2014 #17
I want to recommend the novel SheilaT Mar 2014 #7
Yes, very good book! WolverineDG Mar 2014 #8
In my opinion everything Josephine Tey wrote SheilaT Mar 2014 #9
I didn't know she wrote anything else WolverineDG Mar 2014 #10
Yes. Not too many books, and she died rather young. SheilaT Mar 2014 #11
DOT turned out to be more insightful okasha Mar 2014 #14
For anyone interested okasha Mar 2014 #18
I signed up for it too!! WolverineDG Mar 2014 #19
Great! okasha Mar 2014 #20
Starts June 30! WolverineDG Mar 2014 #21
Even better. okasha Mar 2014 #22

Squinch

(50,773 posts)
1. I LOVE all this emerging about him.
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 05:38 PM
Feb 2014

I don't know what, in astrology, might explain it. But the uncovering of his body in the parking lot made me re-read "Daughter of Time." Have you read that one? It's FABulous!!!

I'm off to find an image of that facial reconstruction under the word Justice to see if it's the same facial reconstruction I have seen (In which he is perfectly nice looking.)

WolverineDG

(22,298 posts)
2. Yes, I got a copy of that book from my cousin but misplaced it
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 06:32 PM
Feb 2014

so I ordered it again from Amazon last night.

I really recommend reading "Sunne in Splendour." At some points, I felt as though I was "re-living" or watching what was happening as opposed to reading the book. Was I there? Who knows? All I know is that my reactions to the facial reconstruction hit me in my core & that only happens when I encounter something from a past life.

Do somethings about Richard's story "sound" false to you? Do you get feelings that something is not "right?" If so, those are the feelings I get.

Anyway, here is the link to the Smithsonian show .



and the best I could do on the photo:

Ihave the link to the entire document; I couldn't download or save it on my computer, but I can send it PM to you ifyou like (it's just various renderings of Richard's portrait)



Squinch

(50,773 posts)
3. Oh! look at that!
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 06:57 PM
Feb 2014

I will get Sunne in Splendour tomorrow. I'm sure it's in the local library. Thanks!

Read Daughter of Time! It goes into exactly WHAT is wrong with the whole Richard story. It takes detail by detail and shows where the party line story simply doesn't make sense. It also goes into the history before and after, and the people who REALLY benefitted from the princes deaths, and how the timeline of Richard killing them simply doesn't work.

I don't have that response to that image, but I have had recurring dreams about a house that I had never seen and then stumbled across, decades after the dreams began. So I know that "hits your core" feeling.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
4. The thing that struck me most forcefully
Sat Mar 1, 2014, 11:41 PM
Mar 2014

about the facial reconstruction was how much Richard did in fact resemble other members of his family, after 500 tears of being described as the "odd one out." (The dark one in a blond family, the short one in a tall family, etc.) It's harder to see in the surviving potrait of Edward because he'd gotten heavy by the time the original painting was done. But look at the portrait of Margaret as a young woman. The likeness is very strong.

WolverineDG

(22,298 posts)
5. It's funny he was called "short"
Sun Mar 2, 2014, 12:06 AM
Mar 2014

Because Edward was 6'4". Anyone, scoliosis or not, would be "short" in comparison. Even with a bent back, Richard stood about 5'7 or 5'8, still taller than most men of the time period.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
6. The scoliosis may not have affected
Sun Mar 2, 2014, 12:58 AM
Mar 2014

his height or stance as much as many articles published immediately after the discovery of the bones claimed. I showed the online photos to an RN friend who also has lateral curve scoliosis and asked how Richard's compared to hers. Hers is worse, and her only visible symptom before they put steel rods down her spine for compression fractures suffered in an auto accident was one shoulder carried slightly higher than the other.

Another novel Ricardians will enjoy: The White Boar, by Marian Palmer.

 

LiberalEsto

(22,845 posts)
12. Also: "The Murders of Richard III" by Elizabeth Peters
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 09:07 PM
Mar 2014

It's a mystery novel about a group of Richardians in England having a conference to unveil s new discovery. A fun read.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
16. I had wondered
Wed Mar 5, 2014, 02:19 AM
Mar 2014

sibce there has been nothing new for so long. I will miss her. I still miss Dorothy Dunnett, whom Ms. Peters also admired.

 

LiberalEsto

(22,845 posts)
17. I saw her obituary in the Washington Post
Wed Mar 5, 2014, 11:22 AM
Mar 2014

She lived in Frederick County, MD. I live in a neighboring county. Years ago she reviewed books in the Post.

Rest in peace, Barbara Mertz/Barbara Michaels/Elizabeth Peters

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
7. I want to recommend the novel
Mon Mar 3, 2014, 04:47 AM
Mar 2014
Daughter of Time by Josephine Tey. A police inspector, laid up with a broken leg, starts looking into the Richard III thing. Fascinating. In my opinion it is the best analysis of that portion of history ever. Still in print. Read it.
 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
9. In my opinion everything Josephine Tey wrote
Mon Mar 3, 2014, 04:58 PM
Mar 2014

was very good. Do look at some of her other novels if you get a chance.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
14. DOT turned out to be more insightful
Wed Mar 5, 2014, 01:07 AM
Mar 2014

than anyone knew. Inspector Grant comes to the conclusion that Richard survived a devastating and painful childhood illness. He siggests polio, whose effects can indeed be similar to those of scoliosis.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
18. For anyone interested
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 11:41 PM
Mar 2014

THE University of Leicester is offering a free online course on Richard and his times. Isigned up for it today.

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