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Mon Apr 15, 2013, 11:14 PM

The evangelical atheist.

I think this is a much better phrase than the militant atheist.

It really conveys the idea of sales pitch, and of a mission. Militant is more about angry. Evangelical is more about trying to convert.

Discuss.

41 replies, 7290 views

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Arrow 41 replies Author Time Post
Reply The evangelical atheist. (Original post)
kwassa Apr 2013 OP
hrmjustin Apr 2013 #1
rexcat Apr 2013 #3
hrmjustin Apr 2013 #8
rexcat Apr 2013 #27
hrmjustin Apr 2013 #33
trotsky Apr 2013 #5
hrmjustin Apr 2013 #9
hrmjustin Apr 2013 #36
defacto7 Apr 2013 #2
Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #18
trotsky Apr 2013 #4
reteachinwi Apr 2013 #6
longship Apr 2013 #7
TM99 Apr 2013 #12
longship Apr 2013 #14
TM99 Apr 2013 #15
Starboard Tack Apr 2013 #24
TM99 Apr 2013 #41
Warren Stupidity Apr 2013 #17
cleanhippie Apr 2013 #21
Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #10
goldent Apr 2013 #11
dimbear Apr 2013 #13
PassingFair Apr 2013 #28
Fumesucker Apr 2013 #16
Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #19
cleanhippie Apr 2013 #20
Iggo Apr 2013 #22
cbayer Apr 2013 #23
trotsky Apr 2013 #25
rexcat Apr 2013 #39
cbayer Apr 2013 #40
gcomeau Apr 2013 #26
Dorian Gray Apr 2013 #29
cleanhippie Apr 2013 #30
Dorian Gray Apr 2013 #31
cleanhippie Apr 2013 #32
rexcat Apr 2013 #38
Ron Obvious Apr 2013 #34
EvolveOrConvolve Apr 2013 #35
rexcat Apr 2013 #37

Response to kwassa (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 11:17 PM

1. I am sorry to those I offended by saying I liked the term.

 

Last edited Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:02 PM - Edit history (1)

I will leave this post up and you can see the unedited first reply i made if you want. Again I am sorry.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 11:29 PM

3. And you don't think...

"evangelical" is not insulting? You seem quite clueless about a lot of things when it comes to atheists.

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Response to rexcat (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 11:45 PM

8. I am sorry if i insulted you.

 

And no I do not know a lot about atheism.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #8)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 03:40 PM

27. You did not just insult me...

but IMO all atheists.

If you don't know a lot about atheism may I suggest you start figuring out where we are coming from then maybe there can be some constructive dialogue.

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Response to rexcat (Reply #27)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:59 PM

33. My apologies!

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 11:33 PM

5. How about you find out what label atheists prefer...

instead of deciding what you'd "like" them to be called?

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Response to trotsky (Reply #5)


Response to trotsky (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:04 PM

36. I just wanted to say sorry that I spoke before I should have listened.

 

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Response to kwassa (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 11:25 PM

2. There's nothing militant about me

so militant doesn't fit. I don't like evangelical though because that word has already been pinned to a description I dislike about as much as militant. How about exuberant atheist? Enthusiastic atheist? I'll take those any day.

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:31 AM

18. yay! i love those!

 

exultant? ebullient?

giddy? as in, ...

'those giddy atheists are really getting on my nerves. have they been fed any babies this morning?'

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Response to kwassa (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 11:29 PM

4. Then everyone on this site is an evangelical Democrat.

Pro tip: Stop trying to put atheists into your pre-defined religious boxes. We aren't "fundamentalist," we aren't "evangelical." We speak out against the negative aspects of religion and won't be silenced by labels and names that you decide we need.

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Response to kwassa (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 11:34 PM

6. Well tempered atheist?

 

Too self congratulatory?

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Response to kwassa (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 11:44 PM

7. Why use any adjective? Especially evangelical!!!

What's with people wanting to add labels to atheists? Isn't atheist pretty much descriptive enough?

No, apparently not. That's why people are always adding "strident", "militant", and apparently now the even more insulting "evangelical".

Stop with the cockamaimie adjectives. Atheists are just people like everybody else. Mostly we just wish to be left alone. Sadly, that cannot happen in this country where much ink is spilt over the proper insulting adjectives to attach to the word, as much as is spilt comparing us to devil worshippers, Hitler, Stalin, etc.

Atheists get kind of tired of this rhetorical gamesmanship. Plus, it pisses us off.

If you want to call me anything, simply an atheist will do. Or, any of several other non-insulting nouns may work. If you want to get my dander up, by all means add an insulting adjective to the noun. But don't then expect me to have a very respectful conversation with you.

Be nice.

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Response to longship (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 02:05 AM

12. We use adjectives to distinguish

 

between different types of individuals and different types of subgroups within a larger group.

So, no 'atheist' isn't enough. Are some atheists equanimitous and open-minded with regards to the religious including theists? Yes. Are some atheists close-minded, militant, and even evangelical? Absolutely.

Those who self-identify as a member of any group are still individuals with individual psychological states. Not all Christians are fundamentalists. Not all Muslims believe in Jihad as actual terrorism. Not all Jews are nationalistic Zionists.

Some atheists, even here at DU, are very agitating. These individuals will jump on any thread that might involve religions or theists and just generally be shit disturbers. These individuals will put down anyone who self identifies as a member of a religion. These individuals will condescendingly say that if you believe in God then you are not an intelligent person. If you are a Catholic, then of course, you automatically support homophobia and pedophilia. If you are a Buddhist, you are lumped into some new conspiracy with the Dalai Lama who is now a theocratic Nazi lover.

All of this is of course ridiculous and stops rational conversation between individuals here and elsewhere who may disagree but can certainly do so without vitriol, insults and barbs. I have been atheistic since childhood. I identify as ignostic today. I am also a practicing Buddhist. I have little problem relating and discussing philosophical, scientific, or religious topics with any group -- unless the individuals are 'fundamentalists'. For me that is more a psychological state which describes individuals of insecurity who generally experience a sense of persecution whether it was once real or is now just an illusion. It taints the person's experience where dialogue can become difficult if not impossible.

You and I are not in disagreement, and I can understand your frustration. I feel it as well when a fundie Christian says I will burn in hell for following the Buddhist path. I feel it as well when an atheist suggests I am illogical or unintelligent because of my philosophical system of belief. Please don't be surprised when others outside of the group you belong to do the same. Let's just all remember to focus on the individual more so than the group as a whole. Sure at times it is very appropriate to do so, but in discussion, like on these forums, it generally destroys any positive value that might arise from communication among different people with different experiences and beliefs.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #12)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 03:51 AM

14. Well, as I posted...

If a person wants to piss off an atheist, call them strident, militant, or some such thing. It's like calling a woman hysterical, or a black uppity, for instance.

I do not proselytize my lack of belief. I do enjoy intelligent discussions and arguments, though, and have no qualms about discussing my atheism but mostly to disavow people of their biases.

I am also horrified by things that are done in the name of religion and see it generally as being a negative influence due mainly to its propagation of myth as truth, and of the tendency to demonize out-groups to the point of hideous violence. However, in practice, those latter people may be a minority.

On the other hand, almost all religious people have this built in superiority that places them, in their minds, above other beliefs. I think that is what can be insidious. And when religion treads into governance, or into science, there is nothing more insidious.

I don't care what others believe as long as they leave me alone and as long as they don't try to impose it on anybody. Unfortunately, many religious people haven't figured out how not to do that. That's a huge problem in our world and I fear it may prove to be the end of us.

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Response to longship (Reply #14)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 05:15 AM

15. And as I replied

 

if you want to piss off a Christian, immediately assume that she is a fundamentalist that believes in creationism and an invisible sky father. We, therefore, agree then that snap judgments of one person as representative of the worst within a whole group are not appropriate in any type of communication.

Please don't assume that all that follow a religion must immediately be suspect of a superiority complex. I, of course, have witnessed that, and bluntly, I have seen that same superiority in atheists as well.

I completely agree that religion should play no part in governance and have only the most indirect of connections to the sciences. After all, a religious person can still be an unbiased and excellent scientist and proponent of reason & the scientific method. We would hardly want a litmus test required of scientists that they must espouse no affiliation with religion in order to work or teach, would we?

Within reason, I, too, believe in letting others do their own thing. I do not condone any one religious or not that would attempt to force others to believe always as they do. You state that you think that many religious people haven't figured that out yet. I would go a step further and simply say that most humans don't know how to do that. It is done every day whether with religion, politics, personal desires, etc. Human beings easily fall into traps of solipsism and projection.

Nice chatting with you.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #12)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 01:07 PM

24. Beautiful! One of the best posts I've seen around here.

I think you are way more representative of atheists and agnostics than the loudmouths who proudly wear their adjectives of intolerance.
Close-minded, militant and evangelical are adjectives that apply to extremists, regardless of their beliefs.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #24)

Wed Apr 17, 2013, 11:57 AM

41. Thank you.

 

I agree completely.

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Response to longship (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:42 AM

17. We need a label. Isn't that obvious? There are atheists and then there are "those" atheists. Nt.

 

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Response to longship (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 12:13 PM

21. That's all the OP has left, insults and no substance.

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Response to kwassa (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 12:22 AM

10. I have been using this term for a while now. Very appropriate for some.

 

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Response to kwassa (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 12:46 AM

11. I think the labels Type A and Type B would work well.

Just don't tell anyone what Type A and Type B mean. Problem solved.

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Response to kwassa (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 02:30 AM

13. Evangel means 'good news.' Atheism isn't good news, it's just news.

Value neutral news. And it's old news, too.





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Response to dimbear (Reply #13)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 06:03 PM

28. It's good news if you're into reality.

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

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Response to kwassa (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 06:19 AM

16. I miss the old adjective for atheists who don't know to STFU, "Rabid"

I haven't heard that one in years now, it had a certain style and panache about it.

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Response to kwassa (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:43 AM

19. this must be the 'keep throwing shit at the wall..

 

..eventually some will stick' approach?

especially if you *smear* the shit around?

why not just stick with ye olde standbys?

evil?
http://atheismexposed.tripod.com/evil_atheists.htm

ignorant?
http://xamishatheist.com/2012/04/15/atheists-are-ignorant/

stupid?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CJFS5wZdJzk#t=5s

STALIN?

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Response to kwassa (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:44 AM

20. Call us whatever makes you feel better about yourself. No name will change the nonsense you espouse

and no name calling will keep anyone quiet so that your delicate sensibilities aren't offended.

Deal with it.

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Response to kwassa (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 12:40 PM

22. I'll add it to the growing list of mythical beings.

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Response to kwassa (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 12:55 PM

23. I don't like the term, as it has negative connotations, particular within the liberal/progressive

community.

While I think it is worth making distinctions within the group, I think it's a mistake to use anything that might be considered pejorative.

The difference I see is between atheist and anti-theist. Atheists are completely neutral, imo. They share one thing - a disbelief in a god or gods. Anti-theists are not neutral, however. They share the belief that theism is bad and should be eliminated.

In other words, atheism is a passive position. Anti-theism is an active one.

As it pertains to this site, I think anti-theism hinders the overall objectives of DU because it pits one group against another within a community that otherwise shares progressive/liberal goals.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #23)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 02:21 PM

25. What would you say about the tactic of labeling people who...

want to see religion removed as a justification for making policy as "anti-theists" who think "that theism is bad and should be eliminated"?

Doesn't that pit one group against another within a community that otherwise shares progressive/liberal goals?

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Response to cbayer (Reply #23)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 10:53 PM

39. But you can say the same of the religionist...

there are some who are religious anti-atheist. It is not a one-way street. It works both ways.

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Response to rexcat (Reply #39)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 10:55 PM

40. I agree. And they are no better than the anti-theist.

It's divisive to be against a group that sees things differently but shares your fundamental goals and principles. Be that anti-theist or anti-atheist, it is counterproductive, imo.

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Response to kwassa (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 03:00 PM

26. Can I be an "evangelical arithmetist" to?

 

After all, I generally try and convince anyone who doesn't know already that 2+2 does in fact equal 4 when I come across such a person saying thing like "2+2=5", or "2+2=rhinoceros". So clearly I'm evangelizing them!

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Response to kwassa (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 06:23 PM

29. You know that's going to piss off

atheists with its religious connotations.

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Response to Dorian Gray (Reply #29)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 06:26 PM

30. No it's not, because it's a childish attempt to taunt and offend. It's all kwassa has left.

So no one is angry, but they are laughing.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #30)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:06 PM

31. It just reads as

shit stirring. I'm glad you're not offended or annoyed.

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Response to Dorian Gray (Reply #31)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:33 PM

32. It is nothing but shit-stirring.

Not offended or annoyed at all.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #32)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 10:49 PM

38. Oh damn...

I missed that memo. I did find it a little annoying but small minded people do that to me. My bad!



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Response to kwassa (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:12 PM

34. I'm going with unapologetic atheist. n/t

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Response to kwassa (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:27 PM

35. I think the term you're looking for is "outspoken atheist"

I know it really torques you that there are atheists who won't sit down and shut up, but there it is. We're here and we're not going away, no matter how much our presence offends you.

BTW, the next time you hear of an atheist meeting where they're discussing "missions" to "convert" believers, let me know. I'd like to be there.

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Response to EvolveOrConvolve (Reply #35)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 10:44 PM

37. But, but...

outspoken atheists are not nice people and are not worth respecting because they don't agree with them when it comes to their woo.

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