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Tue Jan 14, 2020, 04:00 PM

The Amish Keep to Themselves. And They're Hiding a Horrifying Secret

I won't provide any quotes from the article here because of the sensitive nature of this topic and possible triggers; the descriptions are rather graphic so be warned. This is a very disturbing look into the Amish community that shocked me and cracked my stereotypical image of them.

A year of reporting—an exclusive partnership between Cosmo and Type Investigations—reveals a culture of incest, rape, and abuse.

https://www.cosmopolitan.com/lifestyle/a30284631/amish-sexual-abuse-incest-me-too/

81 replies, 4800 views

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Reply The Amish Keep to Themselves. And They're Hiding a Horrifying Secret (Original post)
Newest Reality Jan 14 OP
edhopper Jan 14 #1
2naSalit Jan 14 #2
Newest Reality Jan 14 #5
Cartoonist Jan 14 #10
Newest Reality Jan 14 #12
Cartoonist Jan 14 #57
ramen Jan 14 #33
Cartoonist Jan 14 #55
ramen Jan 15 #64
AtheistCrusader Jan 15 #68
ramen Jan 16 #72
AtheistCrusader Jan 16 #74
ramen Jan 16 #77
trotsky Jan 16 #75
ramen Jan 16 #78
trotsky Friday #79
ramen Friday #80
trotsky Tuesday #81
mountain grammy Jan 14 #34
2naSalit Jan 14 #46
wnylib Jan 15 #61
ramen Jan 16 #73
wryter2000 Jan 16 #76
demigoddess Jan 14 #18
MuseRider Jan 14 #3
Bayard Jan 14 #41
Duppers Jan 15 #62
LakeArenal Jan 14 #4
Newest Reality Jan 14 #7
CaptYossarian Jan 14 #36
doc03 Jan 14 #8
wildheart Jan 14 #11
doc03 Jan 14 #22
AtheistCrusader Jan 15 #69
LakeArenal Jan 14 #25
wildheart Jan 14 #9
Newest Reality Jan 14 #16
LakeArenal Jan 14 #26
AtheistCrusader Jan 15 #70
Major Nikon Jan 14 #19
LakeArenal Jan 14 #27
Major Nikon Jan 14 #44
LakeArenal Jan 14 #49
Major Nikon Jan 14 #52
wildheart Jan 14 #29
LakeArenal Jan 14 #50
wildheart Jan 14 #56
LakeArenal Jan 14 #58
wnylib Jan 14 #38
Major Nikon Jan 14 #45
wnylib Jan 14 #53
Major Nikon Jan 14 #54
AtheistCrusader Jan 15 #71
blueinredohio Jan 14 #42
MuseRider Jan 14 #47
Buzz cook Jan 14 #6
wildheart Jan 14 #13
Major Nikon Jan 14 #20
wnylib Jan 14 #43
Major Nikon Jan 14 #48
wnylib Jan 15 #60
Major Nikon Jan 15 #65
RKP5637 Jan 14 #15
wildheart Jan 14 #24
RKP5637 Jan 15 #66
LakeArenal Jan 14 #28
wildheart Jan 14 #39
RKP5637 Jan 15 #67
Newest Reality Jan 14 #21
Buzz cook Jan 15 #63
RKP5637 Jan 14 #14
MFM008 Jan 14 #17
edhopper Jan 14 #23
AJT Jan 14 #30
wildheart Jan 14 #37
AJT Jan 14 #40
Karadeniz Jan 14 #31
mfcorey1 Jan 14 #32
SunSeeker Jan 14 #35
evertonfc Jan 14 #51
LakeArenal Jan 14 #59

Response to Newest Reality (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 04:11 PM

1. Not suprising

from a puritanical. patriarchal society that shuns the outside. And oh yeah, religion.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 04:30 PM

2. Exactly.

You'll find it in most of them from lds to jonestown.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 04:48 PM

5. Putting them all...

With all due respect, even though I am not religious, I have studied religion and related topics for a while. Over the course of many years, I have also met very intelligent, practical and even science supporting people who were religious.

From that, I can say that not all religions, or people who practice them, are the same, nor do they have to do with wide spread abuse, and they get very little attention, so I can't blame anyone who has a bias and tends to disparage religion as a whole. Cults are also another matter and, often, deserve the admonishments they get when it comes to sexual, physical or mental abuse.

My point is that focusing on religion primarily belies the underlying problems of the behaviors we see, (and then get associated only with x) exhibited which are, frankly, human behaviors and occur in all kinds of situations in secular environments.

Out of respect for the kind, intelligent and beneficial members of our society and party that are religious, (and don't even proselytize) I don't lump sum the issue and keep a check on my own biases in this matter. We Democrats can truly live under the same, secular umbrella when that is honored and understood. I think that might be rather difficult, (and insulting) if blatant, public denigration of people's beliefs and faith is treated with insensitivity and knee-jerk prejudices. I would hope that all who respect pluralism would be welcome.

I guess it would be easier to empathize with that if you imagined yourself thinking as you do now, but also having a faith, practice or religion and how it would feel when people put you in a narrow and negative frame.

Thanks for your comments.

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Response to Newest Reality (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:35 PM

10. All religion's are cults

Some people feel that when they get enough members, they are no longer a cult but a religion worthy of respect.
I don't.

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:39 PM

12. Yes, I know.

I am aware of your bias and I respect it.

Do you have a background story on what has lead you to look at the world and religion through that particular lens and in such a generalized way. I have heard some that often make a lot of sense.

Also, how do you know that all religions are actually cults? Have you done some research into that. What is a cult in your understanding? Are their cults that are not religious?

Who do you feel is worthy of your respect and is respect reciprocal? In other words, should one person have respect from others, but refuse it to others who have not done anything wrong to them?

I am curious.

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Response to Newest Reality (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:19 PM

57. A simple definition


cult
/kəlt/

a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.

a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing.
_

Misplaced means unproven. I was raised Catholic. I left when truth became stronger than faith.

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:37 PM

33. Calling religions cults is unhelpful to Democrats.

It plays right into the hands "religious right" (an insane term, those folks are religious only when that is convenient to their idiotic bullshit) when they accuse us of being amoral/godless/whatever slur.

There are innumerable religious people on our ideological side. Moderate Jews, progressive Christians, Muslims who think maybe the repression of women is not right but don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.. we gain nothing by alienating these people and accusing them of being cultists, but boy do we lose plenty.

Source note: I am an atheist but am employed in Christian settings for some of my work.

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Response to ramen (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:13 PM

55. I call it like I see it

I can't help their fellings

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #55)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 06:53 AM

64. Duly noted.

Tell that to the election results.

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Response to ramen (Reply #64)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 03:31 PM

68. Pretty sure the average voter isn't reading the DU religion group.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #68)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 12:21 AM

72. Is the implication that the omly people espousing the religions-are-cults line are

in this group on this little corner of the internet? It seems like a far more widespread phenomenon than that, from my perspective.

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Response to ramen (Reply #72)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 12:06 PM

74. And the counter implication, that only liberals feel this way?

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #74)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 08:35 PM

77. Anecdotally,

I have not heard a Republicans take that tack. Libertarians, sure, but I definitely don't have any data to back that up empirically.

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Response to ramen (Reply #72)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 03:51 PM

75. What criticism of religion will you allow?

What's polite enough? Where do you draw the line?

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Response to trotsky (Reply #75)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 08:39 PM

78. I can't allow or disallow any speech, and am not interested in doing so.

I do favor discussion and have a personal preference for not shooting myself in thr electoral foot, when given the choice.

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Response to ramen (Reply #78)

Fri Jan 17, 2020, 08:43 AM

79. There are lots of pro-2A Democrats.

Are you as worried about losing their votes when discussing gun control?

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Response to trotsky (Reply #79)

Fri Jan 17, 2020, 10:31 PM

80. I am not. The damage done by those Democrats is far too great to bear.

I see your point but draw my personal line there.

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Response to ramen (Reply #80)

Tue Jan 21, 2020, 08:21 AM

81. Yeah, the point is, Democrats disagree on many things.

But if discussion on ONE of those topics is going to push voters away from the Democratic Party, then I have to question just how likely they were to vote for Democrats in the first place. The tactic you used above is very similar to how "the establishment" spoke down to people fighting for civil rights in the 60s. Don't upset people. Don't rock the boat. Your time will come. And so on.

What do you suppose would be the state of civil rights in this country had they listened to those Democrats?

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:44 PM

34. With all due respect.

You are completely correct.

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Response to Newest Reality (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 08:27 PM

46. My claim does not

imply that anyone who follows a religion is among the perverts. It does imply that you can find perv networks in every religion. It's a great cover... that's what I'm implying.

One of religion's great strengths is the art of persuasion, it's belief, requires no evidence even if there might be some.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #46)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:14 AM

61. "You can find perv networks in every religion."

As you can find secular networks of human sex trafficking nearly any place in the world, often, though not alwsys, associated with drug trafficking.. But definitely associated with profit for the traffickers.

Seems that neither religion nor lack of it makes a difference regarding "perv networks."

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Response to wnylib (Reply #61)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 12:23 AM

73. Agreed. I don't understand the ideology.

It would be like saying that because some politicians on the right are corrupt, one shouldn't vote for politicians on the left. Bullet, meet own foot.

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Response to Newest Reality (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 04:40 PM

76. A reasoned, rational reply.

Good luck with it.

This is one hatred we carry out regularly on DU.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:01 PM

18. nailed it!!

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Response to Newest Reality (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 04:34 PM

3. Not surprised by this.

I know that people around here who live on farms, care for their critters, do not like what they see. The horses are worn to a thin, dead eyed frazzle then sent to the killer barns where the good souls who do this work buy them and rehab them if they can. Rehab seems to be particularly hard on those horses.

When I heard about this I was stunned that they treated their horses that way. I will never be stunned, sad but never surprised, at how women and children are treated. Hell, never stunned about the way they are treated anywhere but the horses are used for so much you would think they would at least value them. I guess you can mistreat and beat anything into submission after a while and no escape.

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Response to MuseRider (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 07:37 PM

41. Agreed

Same here. We have one of the largest Amish populations in the country here in this part of KY. You have some that are kind to their animals, and some that abuse them, treat them as tools until they wear out. A large percentage of establishments have hitching posts. Most of them have been chewed like crazy, and when you see horses tied there, they are usually underweight and no shine to their coats or in their eyes. I've seen buggies being driven up steep hills in 95 degree heat. I know at least one person who pulled over to stop an Amish man once that had his buggy packed with the whole family. He was beating the horse because it had just collapsed in the summer heat.

Most of the horses are Standardbreds (known for sulky racing on the track). They are always the required dark color with few markings, and are trotting machines. There are several farms in the area that raise them specifically for the Amish market.

The women and children are often out shopping, and are always so quiet and shy.

Then there are others, like the gentleman that owns the sawmill where I get my cedar fence posts and mulch. In the summer, when I go there, his boys are helping him feed boards through the saws. A few of the young ones are driving a little cart around with a fat little pony pulling. My favorite is the little girl, probably 5 or so, who throws her bonnet off, and plays barefoot in the sawdust. She always laughs and waves. The ones in the cart are more than happy to tell you all about their pony (Dusty).

Sawmills seem to be the main business (and mostly owned by people named Miller!). Large logging operations. I'm concerned because the retired phamacist who borders us on two sides, sold his 300 acres to an Amish logger last year. No action yet, but if I get a chunk of money, I'd like to talk to him about buying some of the land right next to us.

I have met several men who are former Amish, and left. They don't want to talk about it.

Bookmarking to read the article.

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Response to Bayard (Reply #41)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 02:00 AM

62. The animal abuse hurts me the most...

And I was a victim of child abuse by my father. These horses die; I'm still alive and "kicking."

As if I've not said it enough: I hate people.

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Response to Newest Reality (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 04:40 PM

4. My opinion is this is bullshit.

I lived with Amish communities for 40 years. I have done things with them socially, been to their weddings, sat in emergency rooms while they wait to hear about loved ones.

I’m not saying those things don’t happen, but I am sure it is not a percentage greater than other communities.

Theres also the fallacy that Amish is so much more religious than other communities.

Amish are exactly like all other Americans. Except they have a different religion. Some beat their kids and animals. Some cheat and lie. Some use their religion as a weapon like other religious groups.

But mostly they are business people, who love their families and are trying to make their world better.

I have seen a man shunned for hitting his children, working them too hard and not allowing them to attend school.

They really don’t keep to themselves. They own businesses that support their family. Profit means as much to them as anybody.
That means they are out in the world. Some shop at Walmart. Some are mostly self sufficient.

They own farms, greenhouses,grocery stores, slaughterhouses, cheese factories. They do tons of construction jobs. They build homes for the “English”. Make cabinets that are unmatched. They roof houses for a fraction of other companies’ prices.

Amish communities are all different too.
Just like Protestant Christians.

Lumping them in one group is like saying the Church of England is like Trump’s Evangelicals.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:01 PM

7. Thank You!

That is some valuable counterpoint to the article's implications and I appreciate your contribution as far as your experience goes.

I also don't cat to lump summing and your take on that was very cogent and worthy of consideration. I especially agree about the variations in communities.

Maybe at some point there will be some rebuttals to the article. That would be good.

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Response to Newest Reality (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:48 PM

36. As they say, "Bad news sells papers."

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:29 PM

8. Apparently you never heard of Johnny Mullet

in Ohio. He had men's beards cut and sexually assulted their wife's for punishment.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:38 PM

11. That's like saying Epstein

Represents all white, non religious people. Pick any group. Nobody disputes that the Amish have the same issues that every other group has. You will not find them in your face, trying to convert you. They will be there to help any neighbor who has a disaster....fire, flood. Etc. They make up a large percentage of our volunteer fire companies.

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Response to wildheart (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:09 PM

22. I agree that are not all bad and they have problems same as us. nt

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Response to wildheart (Reply #11)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 03:33 PM

69. I am willing to bet you my left nut that Epstein-like creatures are over-represented in the white 1%

narcissistic class.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:20 PM

25. Lots of English have done the same.

Never said Amish are angels.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:31 PM

9. I am only a lurker, for years

But I had to log in to reply. Bravo for your post. I agree with you 100%. I've lived among the Amish (old order) for 58 years. My mother was Amish until she was 17, when my grandfather, with grandmothers support, converted to Mennonite. All 14 children at the time, (now 16), of course went as well. The shunning was heartbreaking for my grandmother, but that is another story.

I have many Amish relatives, and I interact almost daily with the Amish.
Let me tell you, they will be the first to say that they are no better than anybody else. They absolutely recognize the problems that are likely not disproportionate to any other group. And yes, it is a problem.

Regarding where someone said about horses being rail thin? Writer has obviously not been around the Amish that I am around. The horses are their pride and joy. They are their transportation. They need to be healthy. My neighbor recently bought a retired racehorse for his buggy horse. 8k investment. You think he mistreats that horse?

They also have an inside/outside dog, which I smile about because that is somewhat unusual.

Rant off/ I just had to log in to add to a discussion that i actually know something about.



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Response to wildheart (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:58 PM

16. Thank you!

That's a valuable contribution to the thread.

I did not post this article to prove a point or express a bias and it is great to have some feedback from people who are aware of the Amish community. I think that's helpful.

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Response to wildheart (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:21 PM

26. You should post more! Thanks.

My friends thank you, too.

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Response to wildheart (Reply #9)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 03:34 PM

70. "not been around the Amish that I am around" This is literally an anecdote that tells us nothing.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:01 PM

19. Do you think they would tell you if they were raping their daughters?

Do you think you would otherwise know if they didn't tell you? That is the one thing that's the same with the other communities you mention, but the difference is most of those don't internalize crime and punishment so the offenders have a much better chance of getting away with it for far longer.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:25 PM

27. Do pedophile priests tell you?

Does your next door neighbor tell you?

Seriously, are you saying Amish are regularly incestuously raping their kids. And don’t just say daughters, because you know there is plenty of child abuse in America.

Do you know of any cases other than what you read?

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #27)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 08:23 PM

44. No, they don't and yet there is definitely a culture of child rape within the RCC

One of the main reasons why is some people put their religious authorities above secular ones. Sound familiar to the Amish?

Seriously, are you saying Amish aren't regularly incestuously raping their kids? Works both ways.

The problem with many Amish communities is nobody (including you) really knows what's going on inside them. The FLDS was raping children for many generations before people started to take notice.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #44)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 08:43 PM

49. The Amish are not FLDS

But it doesn’t matter what I have to say. Your mind is made up.

Funny thing is. I’m an atheist.
My Amish friends know it. They like me anyway.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #49)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 09:20 PM

52. And yet they share commonality in the way I described

The funny thing is you keep making statements about how sure you are the Amish community doesn’t have a problem, while I haven’t accused anyone of anything. So as far as closed mindedness goes, there’s that.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:31 PM

29. I touched on that in another reply

No rapist would tell, and yes they have had a problem of trying to deal with issues themselves. As a whole, I love my upbringing and the camaraderie that I have with my neighbors and relatives.

They are my friends, so many of them. We exchange Christmas gifts, and yard sale together.

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Response to wildheart (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 08:44 PM

50. My friends do love a good yard sale!!🙂

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #50)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:15 PM

56. I always drive..haha

Its nice, because while my nieces and nephews, and spouses have scattered, when they do come to visit, the kids are guaranteed a buggy ride.

. My grandkids love to walk to the dairy farm to visit the cows.

I love the working mules the most, and always keep apples for them. They have 12 of them. They are bought in pairs. Some former show mules that would pull caskets, weddings, etc. I always have apples for them. These gentle giants, along with old amish guy, plow me out of my lane every winter. I've got awesome pics, taken with permission.



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Response to wildheart (Reply #56)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:27 PM

58. My friends own a farm but Rosanna owns a greenhouse

She grew it all herself. After she was a success, she helped five others start greenhouses.

Her sons have started a woodworking business. One daughter has grown a wholesale greenhouse that supply the Produce Auctions. Attending the Produce auction when the potted flowers are in stock is mind blowing. Had I not moved away, she was going to take me to the Chicago Flower Auction because she knew I’d love it. But I WOULD HAVE HAD TO DRIVE!!😂

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 07:04 PM

38. So is that your default position, to assume

that incestuous rape is rampant among the Amish and your 'proof' is that they don't talk about it? Sounds rather convoluted to me.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #38)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 08:24 PM

45. Strawman much?

The person I replied to stated "I’m not saying those things don’t happen, but I am sure it is not a percentage greater than other communities."

I'm calling bullshit on how they would know this just like they called bullshit on the OP.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #45)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 09:26 PM

53. OK. So I misread your post. Seems your argument

works in both directions, then. How would we know how great or small the incidence is? We can't make suppositions either way.


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Response to wnylib (Reply #53)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 09:36 PM

54. We may never know the extent until someone does a comprehensive investigation

Which is the same for a number of other tightly knit religious communities. Until then we can at least listen to the anecdotal evidence of victims and hear what they have to say rather than calling “bullshit”. Some of them detail years of abuse and then shunning by their entire community when they dare to report the crimes to secular authorities.

Meanwhile even if these crimes happen no more often than in secular communities, the ramifications can be far worse. Imagine losing your family, your occupation, your way of life, your community, and all your friends just for daring to report a horrific crime. Just the threat of that is enough to turn your stomach thinking about it.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #38)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 03:43 PM

71. Well, reading the article, you have failed to paraphrase it usefully.

In my reporting, I identified 52 official cases of Amish child sexual assault in seven states over the past two decades. Chillingly, this number doesn’t begin to capture the full picture. Virtually every Amish victim I spoke to—mostly women but also several men—told me they were dissuaded by their family or church leaders from reporting their abuse to police or had been conditioned not to seek outside help (as Sadie put it, she knew she’d just be “mocked or blamed”). Some victims said they were intimidated and threatened with excommunication. Their stories describe a widespread, decentralized cover-up of child sexual abuse by Amish clergy.
“We’re told that it’s not Christlike to report,” explains Esther*, an Amish woman who says she was abused by her brother and a neighbor boy at age 9. “It’s so ingrained. There are so many people who go to church and just endure.”


Once upon an earlier part of my own living lifetime, Catholic sex abuse was just a rumor, until it started getting reported on, and studied, and then finally, prosecuted.

The article in the OP is how this started with a different religious group;

United States[edit]
Main article: Catholic Church sex abuse cases in the United States
The United States has been the focus of many scandals and subsequent reforms.[62] BishopAccountability.org, an "online archive established by lay Catholics," have reported over 3,000 civil lawsuits against the church,[63] some of these cases have resulted in multimillion-dollar settlements with many claimants, totaling more than $3 billion in 2012.[57][63]
In 2004, the Roman Catholic Diocese of Orange settled nearly 90 cases for $100 million.[64] In July 2007, it's parent archdiocese, the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles reached a settlement of 45 lawsuits for $60 million. By July 2007, [65][66] a $660 million agreement was made with more than 500 alleged victims, in December 2006, the archdiocese
In September 2007 the Roman Catholic Diocese of San Diego reached a $198.1 million "agreement with 144 childhood sexual abuse victims."[67]
In 1998 the Roman Catholic Diocese of Dallas paid $30.9 million to twelve victims of one priest ($48.5 million in present-day terms).[68][69] From 2003 to 2009 nine other major settlements, involving over 375 cases with 1551 claimants/victims, resulted in payments of over US$1.1 billion.[note 2] The Associated Press estimated the settlements of sex abuse cases from 1950 to 2007 totaled more than $2 billion.[65] BishopAccountability puts the figure at Addressing "a flood of abuse claims" five dioceses (Tucson, Arizona; Spokane, Washington; Portland, Oregon; Davenport, Iowa, and San Diego) got bankruptcy protection.[65] Eight Catholic dioceses have declared bankruptcy due to sex abuse cases from 2004 to 2011.[70]
Although bishops had been sending sexually abusive priests to facilities such as those operated by the Servants of the Paraclete since the 1950s, there was scant public discussion of the problem until the mid-1960s. Even then, most of the discussion was held amongst the Catholic hierarchy with little or no coverage in the media. A public discussion of sexual abuse of minors by priests took place at a meeting sponsored by the National Association for Pastoral Renewal held on the campus of the University of Notre Dame in 1967, to which all U.S. Catholic bishops were invited.[citation needed]
Various local and regional discussions of the problem were held by Catholic bishops in later years. However, it was not until the 1980s that discussion of sexual abuse by Roman Catholic clerics began to be covered as a phenomenon in the news media of the United States. According to the Catholic News Service, public awareness of the sexual abuse of children in the United States and Canada emerged in the late 1970s and the 1980s as an outgrowth of the growing awareness of physical abuse of children in society.[citation needed]
In September 1983, the National Catholic Reporter published an article on the topic.[71] The subject gained wider national notoriety in October 1985 when Louisiana priest Gilbert Gauthe pleaded guilty to 11 counts of molestation of boys.[72] After the coverage of Gauthe's crimes subsided, the issue faded to the fringes of public attention until the mid-1990s, when the issue was again brought to national attention after a number of books on the topic were published.[73]
In 2002, the Boston Globe's Pulitzer Prize-winning coverage of sexual abuse cases involving Catholic priests drew the attention, first of the United States and ultimately the world, to the problem.[74][75][76] Other victims began to come forward with their own allegations of abuse, resulting in more lawsuits and criminal cases.[9] Since then, the problem of clerical abuse of minors has received significantly more attention from the Church hierarchy, law enforcement agencies, government and the news media. One study shows that the Boston Globe coverage of the cases "had a negative and long-lasting effect" on Catholic school enrollment, and explained "about two-thirds of the decline in Catholic schooling."[77]
In 2003 Archbishop Timothy M. Dolan of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Milwaukee authorized payments of as much as US$20,000 to sexually abusive priests to convince them to leave the priesthood.[78]
As recently as 2011 Fr Curtis Wehmeyer was allowed to work as a priest in Minnesota despite many people having reported concern about his sexual compulsion and suspicious behavior with boys. Wehmeyer was employed as a priest without proper background checks. Wehmeyer was later convicted of sexually abusing two boys. After Wehmeyer's arrest there were complaints the responsible clergy were more concerned with how to spin the story in a favorable light than in helping victims.[79]
In July 2018, Cardinal Theodore McCarrick of the Archdiocese of Washington, D.C. resigned from the College of Cardinals (the first Cardinal to do so since 1927) following allegations of abuse and attempted homosexual rape at a seaside villa.[80][81] In August, a "systematic coverup" of sex abuse by more than 300 priests in Pennsylvania parishes was revealed.[82][83] Reviewers of the situation indicated that many more victims and perpetrators were likely undiscovered.[83]
In March 2018, Archbishop Anthony Apuron of Guam was removed from office by the Vatican.[84] Apuron had been accused of sexually molesting altar boys in the late 1970s. Moreover, in the latest case, priest Louis Brouillard was charged for having raped altar boys during "sleepovers" as a teenager. Over fifteen priests, two archbishops, and a bishop have been recognized in sex abuse cases, from the 1950s until the 1990s.

Jay Report[edit]
In the United States the 2004 John Jay Report, commissioned from the John Jay College of Criminal Justice and funded by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB), was based on volunteer surveys completed by the Roman Catholic dioceses in the United States. The 2004 John Jay Report was based on a study of 10,667 allegations against 4,392 priests accused of engaging in sexual abuse of a minor between 1950 and 2002.[85]
Withholding names of accused clergy[edit]
On December 29 2019, it was revealed that numerous Bishops across the United States withheld hundreds of names from their accused clergy list.[86][87][88]

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 07:39 PM

42. There are a lot of Amish around north east Indiana which is not far from me.

We met some at a neighbor's Apple butter fest. I was surprised at how much they drink, I thought they really toed the line. Some things are strict , others not so much. We've had them put on a front and back porch and build us a pole barn. Either job they did they worked hard, were in and out and a lot cheaper than anyone around us. You wouldn't meet nicer people.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 08:32 PM

47. Thank you for this,

I have felt bad since I posted since it was all 2nd hand info. I have had very little personal contact with the communities in my state but the people I have heard from do interact with them and I trust and know these people BUT, I should never have said much since it is second hand info. I am well aware that there are as many good people as bad people in all areas, sects, religions etc. Heck, I was LDS for quite a long time and never saw any of the bad things some of the groups in that religion do. It was as kind and family oriented as any I have known but still, women are not equals and sometimes 10 children can be cruel.

So, I am happy to see what you posted, also ashamed to have posted second hand info. I still stand by the fact that any group of people who are not as open in the population tend towards cruelty towards someone or use of others to their detriment.

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Response to Newest Reality (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 04:55 PM

6. It is a religious community

So bad things are to be expected.

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Response to Buzz cook (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:43 PM

13. Bad things happen

In non religious communities as well.

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Response to wildheart (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:03 PM

20. True

But non religious communities generally don't have an internalized network they resort to in order to solve social problems and criminality. They go to the police and other governmental protective services.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 08:16 PM

43. Nonsense. Abusive people in general

tend to form friendship connections with other abusive people and families in their community whether that community is secular or religious. Many are not religious at all. But, in spite of being "out in the world," meaning not in a religious group or community, abusive people are secretive and their crimes often go undetected for many years. They threaten their victims into silence. They often keep.to themselves or keep their children as isolated as possible to avoid detection. These are common behaviors in abusive families regardless of where they are or whether they are secular or religious.

I did some work with abused children for a few years. They did not come from any particular background regarding religion or secularism, ethnicity or income level.

There are many Amish people in my region, in a couple of different communities. I see them around often, in town and in the countryside, and have many occasions to interact with them. They are as varied as people in any community. I have had discussions with some of the women about religion, cooking recipes, sewing techniques. I've chatted with some of the men about farming when I mention my grandfather's farm, and about language (Amish Plattdeutsch vs. other German dialects) because my grandparents were German immigrants as young children and I studied German in school.

I have found some to be very open and friendly, others not so much. I have seen/heard some young Amish women assert themselves firmly on some issues with their husbands. I have never seen a maltreated or undernourished Amish horse - or other Amish animal.

They are not perfect. Abuse probably occurs among them as in other communities. They are just people who follow their own customs and religion, which originated during the Reformation as Anabaptists.

They are not as isolated as you might think. They shop in supermarkets and Walmart. Young Amish women around here do housekeeping for incomes and some Amish families have stalls in the local farmers' markets in summer. They ride local buses. I've had them borrow my phone to contact a driver (often a Mennonite) for a lift home at the end of a bus route.

It's not a life style thatI could live, but there are aspects of it that I can admire.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #43)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 08:33 PM

48. You are pointing out what is the same while ignoring what's different

Secular communities do not have an authoritative body which whom certain groups place above government authority.

Within certain fundamentalist groups, victims are often shunned by their entire community if they go to governmental authorities even if they are a victim of the most horrific crimes imaginable. This doesn't happen in secular communities.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #48)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 12:06 AM

60. I have to disagree with you about your

statement that "This doesn't happen in secular communities" regarding shunning for going to authorities." Happens often in my experience working with abused children. People in the child's world ignore warning signs that they later admit they saw but "didn't want to make trouble" or "get involved." Sometimes this includes teachers who are mandated by law to report even suspicions. They discount children who try to talk, and keep their own children away from them.. The more respected the perp is, the more people don't want to believe it could be true and the more they ignore warning signs or discount the child's word.

Once a kid does get results, goes to foster care, goes through a trial, etc. they are shunned by other kids as "different" and adults act like the kid is "tainted." Relatives shun the child for having talked.

There's a psychology involved in abuse that often means the abuser's network of friends and other families are inclined to be abusive or to ignore abuse. This friends and family network is the child's world, with no one they trust to turn to for validation that something is wrong.

Being in a secular world, outside of a religious group, does not mean the "authorities" are available, aware, or even effective. I have seen children returned to homes when an investigating detective strongly recommended against it and the children were abused again.

Your reference to "fundamentalist" Amish groups that shun people who go to authorities indicates that, as I said, they vary by individual and community. My concern was the willingness of posters to paint them all with the same brush.

Yes, Amish have a confession and forgiveness principle that often keeps them from filing court charges or testifying. I agree that it is especially a problem in sex crimes if the community treats the crimes that way due to recidivism in sex crimes. Some communities will leave the decision to the victim or the victim's family in some really hideous crimes. Some will shun the perp regardless of a confession. That protects the community, but not the world at large. In the case of serial killers, I believe they would decide it was their duty to protect against further loss of life by reporting it, but not being Amish, I can't say for sure. I only base that opinion on what I understand of their way of thinking.

How a situation is handled depends on the bishop. He is the head of the church district and the person who advises the people on religious principles and is responsible for church discipline.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #60)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 07:43 AM

65. Nonsense

There is no secular community where you can lose your job, your home, your church, your family, all your friends, and your community for daring to report abuse, and left with literally nothing but the clothes on your back.

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Response to Buzz cook (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:56 PM

15. Yep, and so often they hide behind their pious religion often feeling above all others,

on a god trip.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:20 PM

24. The Amish do not try to convert

And they dont hide behind a pious religion. I will say that they can be too trusting. An Amish landlord (they are getting into real estate locally..many of them own rental properties) is often conned by sob stories of late rent for many many months or even years.

A huge flaw is that when they know about a problem in their community, they trust the abuser if he confesses rather than reporting it to law enforcement. I think they are evolving.

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Response to wildheart (Reply #24)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 02:15 PM

66. Good point, yes, I think that is quite true! I was painting with too broad a brush! n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:29 PM

28. How go you know these things?

Yea, no pious abusive pastors on the tv.

You are choosing to believe the worst about a diverse group of people that is really unfounded. So be it.

Nothing I have to say will change your mind. One thing I do know though, the Amish I know and love forgive you.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 07:15 PM

39. Yes

I am related to one of the little girls killed in the Amish school shooting. My grandmother was one of few invited to be at the funeral, which was a huge deal. It hurts me to see the Amish maligned. And now I will allow you to keep up the fight. You do know what you are talking about.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #28)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 02:16 PM

67. Good point, yes, I think that is quite true! I was painting with too broad a brush! n/t

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Response to Buzz cook (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:07 PM

21. What is your standard?

If you compare a secular community to a religious one, are you saying that, in all cases one is ethically or morally superior to the other across-the-board and in all cases? There are many examples that would both refute that all religion is bad as well as that what is non-religious is inherently and constantly good. By bad I mean harmful, abusive, destructive, etc. By good I mean beneficial, useful, peaceful, compassionate, etc.

I don't really understand the logic of that. The secular world is not one big bright and shiny and pure as virgin snow realm, so the comparison seems rather flawed. What may be missed is the fact that human beings are involved and a lot depends on the context of any situation as well as intents and motivations. I think that is what matters to me since singling out one aspect of society based on a bias misses or even dismisses the more important questions about human behavior and motivations in general.

Now, if you are talking about fundamentalism and charismatic cults, (though cult needs a careful definition or it is just used as a religious bias) I could agree that they both tend to be very problematic. However, not all religious people or religions necessarily fall under that category. And in some cases, the word, religion, requires more specificity because it depends on the definition.

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Response to Newest Reality (Reply #21)

Wed Jan 15, 2020, 03:48 AM

63. Insular, self refrencing and reenforcing.

Paternalistic and authoritarian.

Any such community is ripe for abuse. A religious one adds the power of god to the abusers.

Of course if you read the article you'll get that.

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Response to Newest Reality (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:54 PM

14. I'm just not surprised at all! n/t

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Response to Newest Reality (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:59 PM

17. I thought

It might be the goatman....

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Response to Newest Reality (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:14 PM

23. Most Catholic Priests are nice men

but, you know.....

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Response to Newest Reality (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:32 PM

30. It is a closed community that puts women in a position of being subservient to men in most cases.

They seperate themselves both physically and emotionally from our secular society. They deal with these types of crimes internally so that can mean trouble. It does not mean all Amish people are bad, it just means that the bad may be able to get away with these types of behaviors for a long time. It is the same in all restrictive, closed communities such as FLDS communities.

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Response to AJT (Reply #30)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:57 PM

37. My local amish community is evolving

Based on the conversations I've had with my amish lady friends.

My friends do not have the man in charge. They both are. The farming ones work all day...some of the husbands are absolutely henpecked.

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Response to wildheart (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 07:16 PM

40. That's good to hear.

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Response to Newest Reality (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:33 PM

31. I'm not surprised. I suspect all highly patriarchal religious groups. Doesn't bode well.

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Response to Newest Reality (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:36 PM

32. OMG!!!

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Response to Newest Reality (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:45 PM

35. Isolating and subordinating women encourages and protects their abusers.

Is anyone surprised by this story?

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Response to Newest Reality (Original post)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 09:07 PM

51. Thier strawberry jam

is spot on. I've noticed lots of people are bad. Lots are good. They cover all demographics and political ideologies. That said- I'll be buying more jam on Saturday. ( the can build a flat out top of line Bird house too)

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Response to evertonfc (Reply #51)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:30 PM

59. Mmmmm

I also forgot to mention the bakeries they have. Jam and bread Homemade.

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