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Mon Feb 11, 2019, 01:39 PM

Christian conquest of the Americas killed 50 million people

and caused a significant change in global climate.

Widely reported over the last few weeks.
For example: 50 million deaths in the New World drove cooling in the Little Ice Age
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5008748

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Arrow 17 replies Author Time Post
Reply Christian conquest of the Americas killed 50 million people (Original post)
Voltaire2 Monday OP
Cartoonist Monday #1
Major Nikon Monday #2
trotsky Tuesday #15
grumpyduck Monday #3
marylandblue Monday #4
ROB-ROX Monday #5
Mariana Monday #6
NeoGreen Monday #7
Lordquinton Monday #8
Voltaire2 Tuesday #16
Lordquinton Tuesday #17
marylandblue Monday #9
MineralMan Monday #10
Voltaire2 Monday #11
MarvinGardens Monday #12
Voltaire2 Monday #13
MarvinGardens Monday #14

Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 01:57 PM

1. The standard reply

They were just after the land. Jesus had nothing to do with it.

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 02:05 PM

2. Everyone kills 50 million now and then

Nothing to see here.

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 08:59 AM

15. Correct.

It was just people being people, we KNOW it can't have been their religion.

But in the case of Stalin's purges and deaths in the Soviet Union, well, we really can't say that atheism wasn't the reason.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 02:11 PM

3. I only read the linked article, but

I have a hard time believing it.

It mentions 50-60 million deaths during the 1500s and 1600s. During that period, European immigration was just starting in what's now the US, and most settlements were up and down the East Coast. There was some on the West Coast too, but everything in between wasn't even explored until later.

Central America, sure, maybe. It's a lot smaller. Even going up into Mexico, sure. But South America? Again, most of the settlements during that period were on the coast or close to it.

Now, if the article had said the 1700s to 1800s, I might be more inclined to believe it, even if the numbers seem very high.

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Response to grumpyduck (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 02:19 PM

4. Most died from diseases that quickly spread far inland

from one native community to the next, even though many of those communities never saw a European.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 03:19 PM

5. I this number is WRONG

California has good weather and very good land with natural food and hunting. I was told that 10% of the North American natives lived in California and this population was one million. This would mean the North America population was 10 million. Maybe South America was definitely greener so maybe 20 million people? Most people lived off the land and did not farm or herd animals so I do not think 50 million lived in these two continents or died here by the new people.

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Response to ROB-ROX (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 03:39 PM

6. You were told by whom?

Would you provide some kind of references for those numbers, please?

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Response to ROB-ROX (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 03:41 PM

7. They didn't die all in one year...

...or at one time.

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Response to ROB-ROX (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 04:10 PM

8. Who said they didn't farm of herd animals?

What do you mean by "Live off the land?" They didn't do things in the manner that europeans did, but that does not mean they didn't have their own practices. They had California as a very well managed landscape for thousands of years before it was disrupted by the missionaries. I've read the 10% number as well, but it's always qualified with "That part of north america" which is a very vague definition.

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Response to Lordquinton (Reply #8)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 12:14 PM

16. Apparently the huge agrarian empires

didn’t know how to farm.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #16)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 02:22 PM

17. There's a lot of misinformation out there

and it's hard to seperate the truth from the lies. Who's responsible for the lies? Well, look at that, it's our friends the Catholic Church!

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Response to ROB-ROX (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 04:27 PM

9. There are no accurate numbers for pre-Columbian population in the Americas


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas

It's generally agreed though that 80% to 90% died after the Europeans came, mostly from disease, but many from outright slaughter as well.

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Response to ROB-ROX (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 05:35 PM

10. You're going to need to support your claims.

Link?

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Response to ROB-ROX (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 08:52 PM

11. From CNN.

“European settlers killed 56 million indigenous people over about 100 years in South, Central and North America, causing large swaths of farmland to be abandoned and reforested, researchers at University College London, or UCL, estimate. The increase in trees and vegetation across an area the size of France resulted in a massive decrease in carbon dioxide (CO2) in the atmosphere, according to the study.”

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/02/01/world/european-colonization-climate-change-trnd/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F


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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:30 PM

12. To be fair, most died from disease that traveled faster than the white man.

So the white man didn't need to fire a shot for most of those deaths. I cite as my reference the book "Guns, Germs, and Steel."

That book also explains why the Europeans carried more diseases that were dangerous to the North Americans, rather than vice versa.

What would have happened if all of those indigenous people had not been killed off by disease? Would they have been able to fend off the European invaders?

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Response to MarvinGardens (Reply #12)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:41 PM

13. Native people were slaughtered from Hudson Bay

to Tierra del Fuego. Everywhere the conquerors went they murdered enslaved raped and pillaged.

But sure go ahead and blame it on measels if that helps.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:54 PM

14. Did I say that the white man did not do those things?

I did not say that. I said most died from disease. If you have a reference that all those 50 million in North America were murdered by Europeans, and a minority were deaths from disease, please cite it. Many of those who survived the pandemics (and their descendents) became victims of genocide.
But by then, the population had been greatly reduced.

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