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rug

(82,333 posts)
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 06:51 PM Dec 2011

Pagan mom outraged after school gives son Bible

Ginger Strivelli calls it ‘totally inappropriate’

BY Larry Mcshane
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Tuesday, December 20 2011, 1:27 PM

Ginger Strivelli is a different kind of Bible-thumper: The self-proclaimed pagan would like to smack school officials for giving her son access to a copy of the good book.

“It’s totally inappropriate they think they can get away with this,” an angry Strivelli told the Asheville Citizen-Times after her fifth-grade son came home with a Bible.

“It’s absolutely unbelievable, and their attitude is ridiculous.”

The scripture showdown began when Strivelli’s son came back to her Weaverville, N.C., home after school on Monday carring a copy of the Bible.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/pagan-mom-outraged-school-son-bible-article-1.994410?localLinksEnabled=false

I'm with her.

57 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Pagan mom outraged after school gives son Bible (Original Post) rug Dec 2011 OP
I definitely agree with the mom. knowledgeispwr Dec 2011 #1
Ginger should have her son read it from cover to cover FarCenter Dec 2011 #2
I thought the same thing deacon_sephiroth Jan 2012 #53
Sounds like mom's a tad out of control like most fundies Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #3
Yeah, it's the mom that is the problem here... cleanhippie Dec 2011 #4
We don't believe in banning books but in this case we should make an exception. humblebum Dec 2011 #6
The sensitivity comes from having to deal with Christian privilege all the time. ZombieHorde Dec 2011 #12
Does the outrage of some christians justify her outrage? Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #13
Are you for real? laconicsax Dec 2011 #16
I hope so. Why do you ask? Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #20
So you're not posting a satire of Christian fundamentalists? laconicsax Dec 2011 #41
Don't parents have the right to shield their kids from obscenity? LAGC Dec 2011 #24
Parents can't tama Dec 2011 #40
Nice try, but that wasn't the question, now was it? skepticscott Dec 2011 #48
Parents tama Dec 2011 #49
hooo, doggie! The worst part of this story comes later: TygrBright Dec 2011 #5
You make a great point, and highlight why inclusion of religion at school is a bad idea. cleanhippie Dec 2011 #7
Focusing on, or peddling any one religion is wrong in a public school. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #14
Including the bible in a literature class has nothing to do with the OP. cleanhippie Dec 2011 #17
What do you mean by "nice try at diversion"? Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #18
I bet that... Meshuga Dec 2011 #9
What's the satanic bible? Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #19
Probaly this: tama Dec 2011 #21
Nice to disagree with you, tygr :) tama Dec 2011 #22
LOL. I saw what you did there... n/t TygrBright Dec 2011 #35
don't worry DawnBrooks Jan 2012 #50
I would be pissed too Meshuga Dec 2011 #8
I don't know if I agree EvolveOrConvolve Dec 2011 #10
The Theists will call her a "Millitant Witch" in 3.. 2.. 1.. Odin2005 Dec 2011 #11
I'm not a theist but she is intolerant. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #15
Don't parents have the right to shield their kids from obscenity? LAGC Dec 2011 #23
Available from the FFRF: PassingFair Dec 2011 #25
If you put a label like that on the bible, it would sell like crazy Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #38
We Parents tama Dec 2011 #26
Do you think the answer to this is to push Christianity on all children at school? trotsky Dec 2011 #29
I don't think tama Dec 2011 #39
You didn't answer my question. trotsky Dec 2011 #42
I'm not part tama Dec 2011 #43
OK, you take care! trotsky Dec 2011 #47
How are they gonna do that? Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #37
I'm a theist (of sorts) and I see no reason to call her anything. Nihil Dec 2011 #31
In this case one would also need to ask if there are any books on paganism, humblebum Dec 2011 #27
A good line might be: properly labeled as fiction is okay, but as "non-fiction" it isn't. LAGC Dec 2011 #28
Pure personal opinion there. And not all books on witchcraft are fiction. There are humblebum Dec 2011 #30
Maybe atheists should start donating copies of The God Delusion to public schools... LAGC Dec 2011 #32
"I consider atheism to be fiction." Goblinmonger Dec 2011 #33
"I consider atheism to be fiction" is not a "personal opinion", mr blur Jan 2012 #54
yeh. uhhuh. nt humblebum Jan 2012 #55
Well I guess the language may be a bit crude, but yes humblebum Jan 2012 #57
Are you SERIOUSLY saying that Wizard of Oz Goblinmonger Dec 2011 #34
I think it's pretty self-explanatory. As far as The Wizard of Oz goes, it only serves to demonstrate humblebum Dec 2011 #36
we'll never know DawnBrooks Jan 2012 #51
Did they? Mariana Jan 2012 #52
Where would you draw the line? tama Dec 2011 #44
I would leave it up to the local school boards and the parents, but it would have to be all of humblebum Dec 2011 #45
Sounds good tama Dec 2011 #46
I can see her point. jeepnstein Jan 2012 #56

knowledgeispwr

(1,489 posts)
1. I definitely agree with the mom.
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 06:56 PM
Dec 2011

And the school allegedly just leaving the bibles in a box for people to pick up doesn't make it okay either.

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
2. Ginger should have her son read it from cover to cover
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 07:09 PM
Dec 2011

That would pretty well innoculate him against the Christian religion.

deacon_sephiroth

(731 posts)
53. I thought the same thing
Thu Jan 12, 2012, 11:27 AM
Jan 2012

Of course I'm not pleased that the school is chosing to participate in the recent war on the constitution that the religious right is waging, but the best thing for the mom to do is sit down with her kid and open that bad boy up. There's no faster way to reject christianity than to actually read its "holy book".

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
3. Sounds like mom's a tad out of control like most fundies
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 07:24 PM
Dec 2011

Doesn't want junior exposed to any religious books that don't support her religious beliefs. She might benefit from reading a few books on child psychology and parenting.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
12. The sensitivity comes from having to deal with Christian privilege all the time.
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 11:31 PM
Dec 2011

Some Christians love to target your kids, and they receive social protections not "offered" to non-Christians.

Can you imagine the outrage that would occur if the school was giving kids books on demonology, kaos magick, sex magic, Satanism, etc.? Many, many people would freak, even though those belief systems are equivalent to Christianity.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
13. Does the outrage of some christians justify her outrage?
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 11:55 PM
Dec 2011

Prejudice and censorship are rarely, if ever, justified. The harm done to the boy's psyche by the mother far outweighs his exposure to a book. By imposing her beliefs on him and announcing to the world her intolerance of different views, she has subjected him to potential ridicule, scorn, embarrassment and harassment from his peers.
I don't endorse the school, or any of it's teachers handing out bibles, but her reaction was way out of line.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
20. I hope so. Why do you ask?
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 04:09 AM
Dec 2011

If you disagree with what I said, feel free to express your thoughts. I don't like anyone, including school teachers and parents who try to limit children from ideas and beliefs different to their own. Two wrongs don't make a right.

LAGC

(5,330 posts)
24. Don't parents have the right to shield their kids from obscenity?
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 07:58 AM
Dec 2011

Daughters getting their dad drunk and having sex with him. Men killing other men to take their wives. God ordering armies to smash children's heads in and kill everyone but the virgins to be raped. Palming off your wife to a ruler as your 'sister.' Burning your daughter alive because you made 'god' a promise. And so forth.

I think there's valid reasons for waiting until kids are adults before exposing them to that kind of smut.

 

tama

(9,137 posts)
40. Parents can't
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 03:58 PM
Dec 2011

kids watch TV, kids have access to Internet and public libraries and they have friends who show them "filthy magazines".


 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
48. Nice try, but that wasn't the question, now was it?
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 07:06 PM
Dec 2011

When parents CAN shield their children from that sort of thing, do they have a right to? Do parents have a right to decide what religious propaganda they want their children to be exposed to, and to decide that they don't want their children proselytized to?

 

tama

(9,137 posts)
49. Parents
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 07:48 PM
Dec 2011

have right - and obligation - to fuck up their children any way they do, because that's what they do, anyway.

I say 'fuck up' (with tongue in cheek) instead of 'raise' because I'm a parent too and that helps to ease the load of not being a perfect parent in a perfect world. Believing that relaxing and not trying to be a perfect parent actually - or hopefully - helps me to be a better parent, just by being my imperfect self.

And for that matter, I'm not interested in any universal moral code nor judgments of others or "rights" based on this or that universal moral code, so I'm not the guy you should ask that question.

TygrBright

(20,733 posts)
5. hooo, doggie! The worst part of this story comes later:
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 07:56 PM
Dec 2011
School officials say the books, sent by a local branch of Gideons International, were placed in the main office at North Windy Ridge intermediate school for any interested students to grab a copy.

AND

...North Windy Ridge principal Jackie Byerly said any group interested in distributing material the same way would receive approval to do so.

Okey-dokey, let's make a list:

The Q'ran, of course.
Book of Mormon
That weird Moonie tome
The complete works of L. Ron Hubbard, natch!
Definitely the Rig Veda

Oh, but why confine it to religious groups? The PUBLIC SCHOOL Principal said "Any group"...

So... NAMBLA got any material they wanna distribute?
How about the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion?"
Hey, maybe one of those "Make a bomb or incendiary device at home from common household items" tomes would be of interest to the students!

Shades of the Seven Silurian Sand Gods defend us...

disgustedly,
Bright

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
7. You make a great point, and highlight why inclusion of religion at school is a bad idea.
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 08:28 PM
Dec 2011

Meaning, your point about being open to "any group" is spot on, and it shows why religion, of ANY kind, has no business in a public school. Nor does ANY private interest group (NAMBLA! HA! I see what you did there. for that matter. Curriculum alone belongs in the school. End of story.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
14. Focusing on, or peddling any one religion is wrong in a public school.
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 12:01 AM
Dec 2011

Teaching about religions and philosophy and how they have influenced society in a historical context is totally appropriate. There should be no bias or censorship.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
18. What do you mean by "nice try at diversion"?
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 03:49 AM
Dec 2011

Why should comparative religion and philosophy not be taught in schools? You can't hide kids from the history of mankind. I'm not talking indoctrination, but education. Just because you or I don't subscribe to a belief system doesn't mean we or our kids shouldn't know about them. Do you think a school should not allow books about religion in school libraries?

Meshuga

(6,182 posts)
9. I bet that...
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 10:08 PM
Dec 2011

...if a teacher gave out copies of the satanic bible to his/her students at that same school he would be fired immediately.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
19. What's the satanic bible?
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 03:56 AM
Dec 2011

Satan originated in the Old Testament. The mother is supposedly pagan. Don't think pagans do the Satan thing.

 

tama

(9,137 posts)
22. Nice to disagree with you, tygr :)
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 07:40 AM
Dec 2011

By all means, let all those who want to donate books for pupils to grab a copy, if they want. All those books you mentioned and Satanic bible on top. What's wrong with freedom of information, freely distributed but not forced?

DawnBrooks

(4 posts)
50. don't worry
Thu Jan 12, 2012, 10:25 AM
Jan 2012

they were only kidding. when strivelli showed up with her pagan books they decided to review the policy

EvolveOrConvolve

(6,452 posts)
10. I don't know if I agree
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 10:08 PM
Dec 2011

Sure it's wrong to give the Bible out at school, but I've usually found that a good reading of the Bible is the best way to turn kids off of it. Seriously, the Bible is a train-wreck, literary-wise. It's just terrible.

LAGC

(5,330 posts)
23. Don't parents have the right to shield their kids from obscenity?
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 07:47 AM
Dec 2011

Daughters getting their dad drunk and having sex with him. Men killing other men to take their wives. God ordering armies to smash children's heads in and kill everyone but the virgins to be raped. Palming off your wife to a ruler as your 'sister.' Burning your daughter alive because you made 'god' a promise. And so forth.

I think there's valid reasons for waiting until kids are adults before exposing them to that kind of smut.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
38. If you put a label like that on the bible, it would sell like crazy
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 02:48 PM
Dec 2011

If we just ignore it, maybe it'll gather the dust it deserves.

 

tama

(9,137 posts)
26. We Parents
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 08:37 AM
Dec 2011

have generally fucked up, if you take a look at how things are in the world. I don't see that as reason to put parents rights on the pedestal...

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
29. Do you think the answer to this is to push Christianity on all children at school?
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 09:29 AM
Dec 2011

Even public schools in the USA?

Aspects of western society are decried by so many individuals - but these same individuals (conservative AND liberal) will turn around and promote Christianity's founding and ongoing role in the success of western society.

Seems to me a little like god belief itself - you take the credit for the good, but blame the bad on something else.

 

tama

(9,137 posts)
39. I don't think
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 03:01 PM
Dec 2011

that the answer is to deny free distribution of information to "protect children" from Christianity, Satanism, Trotskyism etc.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
42. You didn't answer my question.
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 05:11 PM
Dec 2011

And just to nip this in the bud, because it always comes up, my username has nothing to do with the historical Trotsky.

 

tama

(9,137 posts)
43. I'm not part
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 05:51 PM
Dec 2011

of your war with Christians. I support free distribution of information, also for Christians, and don't see how making copies of Bible available and free to take if some pupil wants to take amounts to "pushing". If you were denied the possibility to freely distribute a book that you like in the same way, then that would be censorship and pushing one world view over others and denial of freedom of information. So instead of nagging at Christianity, you could see this as an opportunity to spread the ideas that you like?

The mother could as well instead of getting infuriated make copies of her Book of Shadows - or some other Wicca-book - and distribute it the same way.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
37. How are they gonna do that?
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 02:44 PM
Dec 2011

No bible, no TV, no video games, no nursery rhymes, no history, no news, no politics. Get real. We live in an obscene world. I say expose them to as much as possible if you want them to have a chance at survival. Be there for when they need you. If you want them to read something, tell them not to. If you don't want them to read it, shove it down their throat.
Sounds like you have a lot of prejudice against one particular book, but I notice you found the good bits.

 

Nihil

(13,508 posts)
31. I'm a theist (of sorts) and I see no reason to call her anything.
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 09:34 AM
Dec 2011

Maybe I'm just one of those theists who really couldn't give a shit about someone else's beliefs?

Perhaps just too militantly apathetic?


 

humblebum

(5,881 posts)
27. In this case one would also need to ask if there are any books on paganism,
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 09:18 AM
Dec 2011

witchcraft, or sorcery allowed in the school. Harry Pottery? Wizard of Oz? Of any of the popular books available today about witchcraft. Where does one draw the line?

LAGC

(5,330 posts)
28. A good line might be: properly labeled as fiction is okay, but as "non-fiction" it isn't.
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 09:26 AM
Dec 2011

I'd have no problem if the Bible was allowed in the school library filed under the fiction section, where it belongs.

 

humblebum

(5,881 posts)
30. Pure personal opinion there. And not all books on witchcraft are fiction. There are
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 09:31 AM
Dec 2011

many "how to" books on the subject. Personally, I consider atheism to be fiction, but again pure personal opinion there.

LAGC

(5,330 posts)
32. Maybe atheists should start donating copies of The God Delusion to public schools...
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 09:37 AM
Dec 2011

...for distribution by atheist teachers to all their students.

After all, turn-about is fair play, is it not?

 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
33. "I consider atheism to be fiction."
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 10:25 AM
Dec 2011

That doesn't even make sense. Not believing in a god isn't real? So are you saying there isn't such a thing as not believing in gods and that we are all fooling ourselves?

Sometimes you might want to actually think about what you are typing rather than just thinking "hey, this would be a good shot at atheists."

 

mr blur

(7,753 posts)
54. "I consider atheism to be fiction" is not a "personal opinion",
Thu Jan 12, 2012, 01:32 PM
Jan 2012

unless you're in the habit of offering illogical nonsense as opinions.

It's a meaningless statement.

Are you just trying to start an argument, or do you really not know what you're talking about?

 

humblebum

(5,881 posts)
57. Well I guess the language may be a bit crude, but yes
Thu Jan 12, 2012, 08:05 PM
Jan 2012

I guess I do consider atheism as "illogical nonsense", as you point out, in many respects.

 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
34. Are you SERIOUSLY saying that Wizard of Oz
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 10:26 AM
Dec 2011

would account for a witchcraft counter to the Bible? Yikes.

And as demonstrated below, you clearly don't get the irony of your statement.

 

humblebum

(5,881 posts)
36. I think it's pretty self-explanatory. As far as The Wizard of Oz goes, it only serves to demonstrate
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 01:14 PM
Dec 2011

just how far something could be carried to extremes. I wonder if her son would have brought home something on Saxon witchcraft, would she have had the same reaction?

DawnBrooks

(4 posts)
51. we'll never know
Thu Jan 12, 2012, 10:28 AM
Jan 2012

because they decided handing out religious material was a bad idea the VERY day she brought pagan materials for distribution

Mariana

(14,849 posts)
52. Did they?
Thu Jan 12, 2012, 11:06 AM
Jan 2012

How utterly shocking.

Do you have a link? Did this sudden reversal of policy even make the news?

 

humblebum

(5,881 posts)
45. I would leave it up to the local school boards and the parents, but it would have to be all of
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 06:19 PM
Dec 2011

a kind or none.

 

tama

(9,137 posts)
46. Sounds good
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 06:28 PM
Dec 2011

and I agree. I wonder is there someone on this board who actually disagrees with what you said.

jeepnstein

(2,631 posts)
56. I can see her point.
Thu Jan 12, 2012, 01:51 PM
Jan 2012

Perhaps she should have taught her child not to accept certain kinds of printed material. I know there are certain books that I have taught my young children I don't want them reading. It's not censorship, it's parenting. I also don't let my nine year olds surf porn on the internet. A fifth grader is old enough to understand the rules a parent imposes.

She just did more harm than good for her cause. She has now shown a young boy a way to really punch mom's buttons. She has an emotional reaction to the Bible. So the kid is going to wonder what's in it that makes it so powerful. Forbidden fruit and all that kind of stuff. We've been that way since the beginning of mankind. Tell us we can't have something and we'll not stop until we taste a bit of it.

Having said all that I don't see the schools as a really good venue for distributing religious literature. It is almost certain to create more controversy than intelligent discussion if you even try. That doesn't mean I think the Bible, or even several different ones, shouldn't be in the school library. For that matter I think literature from all the major world religions should be in any good library. But having missionaries visiting and distributing tracts or Bibles is not smart or acceptable in a public school.

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