HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Religion & Spirituality » Religion (Group) » Report on PA abuse confir...

Thu Aug 16, 2018, 07:48 PM

Report on PA abuse confirms: It's time to quit the Catholic Church

Last edited Fri Aug 17, 2018, 03:29 PM - Edit history (1)




If you stand by the Catholic Church, if you donate time and money to this organization, you are complicit. There is no way around it. This will not be the last report. It will not be the worst report. It’s just the latest in a long line. And we all know this to be true. If you still support the Catholic Church, you are complicit in the rape of children and its coverup. If you think that is too harsh, start thinking about the victims instead.

The cross is an ancient torture and execution device — an odd choice as *the* symbol for a religion. Catholic priests in the Pittsburgh Diocese found a modern and insidious use for the cross, one that harkened back to the bygone era of torture. They would gift the most pliable, reticent victims with a gold cross, marking the children for torment by their fellow pedeophile priests. According to the report, the crosses “were a visible designation that these children were victims of sexual abuse. They were a signal to other predators that the children had been desensitized to sexual abuse and were optimal targets for further victimization.”

The Church knew. It kept “secret archives [that] contained incriminating information regarding numerous priests who had molested children.” Access to these secret archives was highly regulated, protected from legal discovery during litigation, and “seldom turned over” to the secular authorities, even when the church was supposed to be coming clean. The secret archives date back to at least 1948.

The statute of limitations has run out on almost all of these cases, and, “as a consequence of the coverup, almost every instance of abuse [the grand jury] found is too old to be prosecuted,” according to the report. In other words, the coverup worked.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/freethoughtnow/pa-abuse-report/


And this is one of the kinder articles, though no kindness is deserved here. The last line says it all: The coverup worked.

36 replies, 2710 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 36 replies Author Time Post
Reply Report on PA abuse confirms: It's time to quit the Catholic Church (Original post)
Lordquinton Aug 2018 OP
KCDebbie Aug 2018 #1
Lordquinton Aug 2018 #9
Major Nikon Aug 2018 #25
NeoGreen Aug 2018 #2
Duppers Aug 2018 #3
Lordquinton Aug 2018 #10
AlexSFCA Aug 2018 #4
BigmanPigman Aug 2018 #5
AlexSFCA Aug 2018 #6
thucythucy Aug 2018 #7
Voltaire2 Aug 2018 #12
BigmanPigman Aug 2018 #17
Major Nikon Aug 2018 #26
thucythucy Aug 2018 #8
Voltaire2 Aug 2018 #13
thucythucy Aug 2018 #14
marylandblue Aug 2018 #21
Major Nikon Aug 2018 #28
thucythucy Aug 2018 #31
Major Nikon Aug 2018 #32
gtar100 Aug 2018 #11
Lordquinton Aug 2018 #19
Major Nikon Aug 2018 #29
MineralMan Aug 2018 #15
Lordquinton Aug 2018 #18
MineralMan Aug 2018 #20
Lordquinton Aug 2018 #22
Major Nikon Aug 2018 #24
Act_of_Reparation Aug 2018 #16
trotsky Aug 2018 #35
Major Nikon Aug 2018 #23
democratisphere Aug 2018 #27
trotsky Aug 2018 #30
Lordquinton Aug 2018 #33
Major Nikon Aug 2018 #34
marylandblue Aug 2018 #36

Response to Lordquinton (Original post)

Thu Aug 16, 2018, 08:18 PM

1. Here's the thing - these incidents aren't confined to Pennsylvania...

 

The Catholic Church has been protecting Nuns and Priests for hundreds of years ALL OVER THE WORLD!

Can you imagine living somewhere with your child a couple hundred years ago and finding out some Nun or Priest is molesting your child? And if you complain about it, that Priest has the power to ex-communicate you and tell all the parish some lie about you. In some cultures and time periods, the members of the parish may have killed families that were ex-communicated...

Also, the $ that you have been donating to the Church to do good works have been used to buy the silence of thousands, maybe even millions of victims of sexual abuse...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KCDebbie (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 17, 2018, 12:12 AM

9. This is just one incident

we've been hearing about it for years and years, one ex-DUer even said something about "That old story?" when a new allegation surfaced. He should read through the whole brief and see how he feels afterwards, knowing what he supports. OTOH, he would probably still defend the church...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lordquinton (Reply #9)

Sun Aug 19, 2018, 11:59 PM

25. The usual RCC apologists are conspicuously absent

Very telling that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lordquinton (Original post)

Thu Aug 16, 2018, 08:21 PM

2. Insidious...

...criminal, complicit, culpable and catholic.



https://www.democraticunderground.com/1218290809

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NeoGreen (Reply #2)

Thu Aug 16, 2018, 08:26 PM

3. Listen, folks. nt

Thanks, Neo.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NeoGreen (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 17, 2018, 12:13 AM

10. 100%

They have gotten away with it for way too long.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lordquinton (Original post)

Thu Aug 16, 2018, 09:04 PM

4. it's worldwide and likely many more unreported cases

For parents: if you ever leave your kids unattended with a priest wether at a church or school, you are commiting child endangerement. RCC is a criminal organization at every level, thousands upon thousands of child rapes commited and hidden by everyone within this enterprise. Church enploys thousands of pedophile rapists. I am so eranged now that I want this organization to be banned in my state. First amendment does not protect any of that. Every catholic affiliated organization is now accomplices to child rapists and child pornography. Anyone who donates to their services are donating to payouts to silence victims and continue their tradition of child molestation around the globe. The insane in its gravity and scope. report from Penaylvania is enough reason to open nationwide investigation in the US, every state. No longer I will remain silent to those who I know are atrending catholic church serices. I have two friends who do and I sent them messages of how disgusted I am. Thankfully, they are on the same page as me and decided to avoid going there in the foreceeble future, probably feeling guilt of being complicit. This is a movement. Flyers to every catholic church across the nation: “child rapists accomplices”. Children must know. No way the should be able to maintain their tax free status in California after paying out hundreds of millions to shut child rape victims off. Several billions have been paid nationwide so far. Think about it. Freaking child rapists mill.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lordquinton (Original post)

Thu Aug 16, 2018, 09:16 PM

5. Catholics are a die-hard bunch.

It takes a lot to turn them against their church. I know a lot of atheists and agnostics as well as non-religious people and most of the ones who are now atheists were Catholics when they were young. I don't see nearly as many American Catholics joining the ranks. I think millennials especially have soured to this particular religion since the sex scandals have been in the news while they were forming their opinions about religion. I can't wait for Bill Maher tomorrow night...he will do this justice in his own unique way. It pisses me off that they get away with not paying taxes on top of everything else.

Do you think Catholics around the world will respond the same way the US has? South America is very, very Catholic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #5)

Thu Aug 16, 2018, 09:22 PM

6. I think developed countries will

e.g. Canada, Europe, Australia, etc.
We need statewide investigations in every state.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #6)

Thu Aug 16, 2018, 11:35 PM

7. Agreed.

I know this is an imperfect analogy, but something like Eliot Ness and his Untouchables who went after organized crime in the 1930s. Maybe an effort such as this in every state, or an over-arching federal investigation to deal with instances where abusers were shunted from state to state to state.

It won't undo the damage that's been done, but it might bring the perpetrators and enablers to justice, and prevent the victimization of children in the future.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #5)

Fri Aug 17, 2018, 04:37 AM

12. See Ireland.

The collapse of the RCC there as the controlling moral authority has been spectacular. Most people still consider themselves to be Catholic, but they no longer care what the RCC has to say.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #12)

Fri Aug 17, 2018, 01:28 PM

17. Yeah, they proved that by voting pro-choice recently.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #12)

Mon Aug 20, 2018, 12:05 AM

26. The question is how much has it affected the RCC's bank account

For those who want to claim church child rape is no different than any other child rape, imagine if something of this scale had happened to a secular organization. That organization would disappear overnight no matter what kind of history it had. The reason the RCC won't go away is because people will continue to give them money and their apologists will still be hard at work with their whataboutisms.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lordquinton (Original post)

Thu Aug 16, 2018, 11:50 PM

8. I see only one way for the Church to save itself and make itself worthy of any sort of following

and that is to institute a series of sweeping, radical reforms. Such as--

First--eliminate the requirement that priests can't marry or have sex. The chastity requirement is about as effective as Prohibition, and has the same corrupting effect, in that many priests ignore it, and even when those relationships are between consenting adults the need to conceal them fosters a culture of secrecy and duplicity that provides a fertile environment for abusers of adults and children to conceal their crimes. This was brought out in the movie "Spotlight" about the investigative reporting by the Boston Globe that began the unraveling of the web of lies that covered up these sordid crimes.

Second--women have to be allowed into the priesthood, and also made bishops, cardinals, and even someday a woman Pope. The elevation of men as only those worthy of wielding ecclesiastical authority (in other words keeping the Church an all-boys' club) means it will never be possible to deal with the root of this problem--the assertion of male power and male privilege over those less powerful and less privileged.

Third--allowing complete access into all Church records by law enforcement, to investigate and if possible bring to justice those who committed these crimes and those whose complicity enabled the crimes to happen. In other words, a complete purging of those who countenanced these crimes, and then covered them up, with criminal and civil punishments wherever possible.

Even this might not do it--but without these steps I find it hard to see how any sort of redemption is possible.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to thucythucy (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 17, 2018, 04:38 AM

13. Zero of those things will happen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #13)

Fri Aug 17, 2018, 09:43 AM

14. Not in this millenium, anyway.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to thucythucy (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 17, 2018, 04:19 PM

21. Historically, the RCC has held major councils when it's back was to the wall

And I think they will do it again sometime in the next 20 or 30 years.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to thucythucy (Reply #8)

Mon Aug 20, 2018, 12:16 AM

28. I don't think your first or second suggestion is going to do much

While they may be worthy suggestions for other reasons, the RCC's biggest problems are they have very little self-auditing and their primary interest is self-preservation.

Priests are revered within their parish simply because of their positions, and they have unfettered access to children. That kind of situation is going to be a magnet for predators. Doing away with pretending to be celibate and allowing women isn't going to change that. What they need is accountability and the culture which surrounds organized religion is counterproductive to that objective.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #28)

Mon Aug 20, 2018, 10:04 PM

31. Really, the first and most important step

would be criminal prosecution by the civil authorities of all those guilty of the crimes and all those who conspired to cover them up and protect the perpetrators.

Given the scandal's international dimensions, extending no doubt to all six continents, and given that the Holy See is in fact an independent nation state, what we might need is something along the lines of a war crimes tribunal in the Hague, with the power to compel testimony and the appearance of defendants before the court.

As someone else said in response to my suggestions above--it's never gonna happen. Doesn't mean though that it isn't needed.

Edited to add: Where the hell is Interpol when you need it?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to thucythucy (Reply #31)

Mon Aug 20, 2018, 11:24 PM

32. What should happen first is people stop apologizing for child rape

We can't even get progressives to stop apologizing for the RCC. Despite the child rape and coverup, it's also an organization that actively is working against human and civil rights all over the globe.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lordquinton (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2018, 12:55 AM

11. There should not be a statute of limitations on sexual assault on a child.

Because there's no statute of limitations on the pain it causes to the child.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gtar100 (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 17, 2018, 03:35 PM

19. A former poster who was a lawyer argued against extending or dropping the statute

he was also a hardcore Catholic apologist. He claimed the reasons for not eliminating the statute was purely legal, and that it would have unforeseen consequences. Those were never explained fully, but he was insistent they were more important than prosecuting the thousands of known cases of abuse and rape uncovered.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lordquinton (Reply #19)

Mon Aug 20, 2018, 12:26 AM

29. Lots of anonymous posters claim to be lawyers and other things

Anyone can claim anything anonymously. I'm always suspicious of folks who demand credibility based on something I can't verify. Fortunately my hotline to the holy poltergeist provides for easy verification of such things.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lordquinton (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2018, 11:26 AM

15. Link, please. And that's just one archdiocese.

Similar things have occurred in every last archdiocese in this country. They just haven't been exposed yet.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #15)

Fri Aug 17, 2018, 03:31 PM

18. Whoops, forgot that important detail

fixed now.

This is one archdiocese, not even the whole archdiocese either, and it uncovered thousands of children abused.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lordquinton (Reply #18)

Fri Aug 17, 2018, 04:07 PM

20. Exactly. And many others have not

been looked at at all...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #20)

Fri Aug 17, 2018, 06:19 PM

22. And it's nothing new

Just more of the same, and people are still shocked, and still defend the church.

This isn't a bomb going off, this is the scene in Austin powers with the steamroller.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lordquinton (Reply #22)

Sun Aug 19, 2018, 04:03 AM

24. Imagine how bad the problem is where the church has even more power

We are just barely getting a glimpse of how bad this is in the US, and the RCC still is withholding a ton of information despite how we are reminded change is upon us.

Now imagine how bad the problem must be in Central and South America or in other places of the world where the RCC has far more power.

It’s one thing to claim ignorance when you are giving money and support to an organization that is complicit in raping children. It’s quite another to do so without being able to claim such ignorance.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lordquinton (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2018, 01:02 PM

16. That "I just won't go into a church in [X] place" fallback just got a lot harder for somebody.

I hope he doesn't have to drive too far to get to the next service.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #16)

Tue Aug 21, 2018, 08:11 AM

35. LOL

Pennsylvania.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lordquinton (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2018, 03:55 AM

23. When a child raping priest was getting close to prosecution he would be transferred

Inevitably they would just set up shop somewhere else. Inevitably even if they did by some small miracle face prosecution they could rely on moral and monetary support from the RCC and the Catholic League. They could rely on the parish to provide character witness and deny the allegations. Child rape prosecutions are hard enough in the best of circumstances. Imagine one where literally all the cards are stacked against you. The report reveals a widespread network of child rape, where the rapists supported each other and the RCC was apathetic at best, but more generally complicit. It’s impossible to believe this network wasn’t international. Image a child rapist with the option to take a company funded sabbatical to a country with even less enforcement and more power.

So we must believe this is really no different than the secular world. But where else in the secular world do child rapists enjoy such a huge support network?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lordquinton (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2018, 12:06 AM

27. The Catholic Church is a GIANT HYPOCRISY that needs to go out of business.

Perhaps a new church can be created without the hippocratic ashes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lordquinton (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2018, 08:48 AM

30. The absolute killer info:

Access to these secret archives was highly regulated, protected from legal discovery during litigation, and “seldom turned over” to the secular authorities, even when the church was supposed to be coming clean.


They CONTINUED to lie, hide, obfuscate, delay, and block access to justice for their victims.

Wretched, corrupt, and vile don't even begin to describe this organization.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to trotsky (Reply #30)

Tue Aug 21, 2018, 03:43 AM

33. These people are mandated reporters

Well, in most states. I did a quick search to see if PA is one of those states (it is) and came across this article that points out the same thing. The church routinely violates this law, and no one seems to care.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lordquinton (Reply #33)

Tue Aug 21, 2018, 07:38 AM

34. Meanwhile we get lip service from the pope

But no real changes in policy like requiring priests and nuns to tell the local authorities if they suspect abuse. Anyone who fails to report suspected abuse is dismissed. That one simple policy would end the vast majority of the problem, but it won't happen because the RCC wants to protect priests rather than children.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #34)

Tue Aug 21, 2018, 02:31 PM

36. I think so many bishops and cardinals did the same as in Pennsylvania

That they would all go down if they admitted the truth. They are too scared to do the right thing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread