HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Religion & Spirituality » Religion (Group) » Taking Communion while Me...

Fri Jan 12, 2018, 03:09 PM

Taking Communion while Menstruating? Not in the Greek Orthodox Church, Please

http://orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/menses.aspx

Menstruation, Emissions, and Holy Communion

According to the Canons, though a woman is not in any manner more sinful in her cycle than a man is in the case of involuntary bodily emissions, she, like the man, must avoid Holy Communion at this time. These bodily functions are not sins, but they represent and emphasize the consequences of our fallen states. In approaching Holy Communion, we are lifting our fallen selves in the greatest humility to commune with what we are in Christ: literal participants in the Divine. We thus approach Christ as clean vesselsto the greatest possible extent for us in our fallen state, that He might come into us and transform us. Being holy, He comes only to those who strive to holiness. He cannot enter into that which is evil without destroying it. The Eucharist, hence, is the fire that cleanses, for those well prepared, and the fire that burns, for those not prepared. As St. John Chrysostomos writes, "This is a great and wonderful thing, so that if you approach it with pureness, you approach for salvation; but if you do so with an evil conscience, it is for punishment and vengeance."


Uff da! Apparently this prohibition also applies to other Orthodox denominations, as well.

In the 21st Century?

32 replies, 895 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 32 replies Author Time Post
Reply Taking Communion while Menstruating? Not in the Greek Orthodox Church, Please (Original post)
MineralMan Jan 12 OP
ExciteBike66 Jan 12 #1
MineralMan Jan 12 #4
ExciteBike66 Jan 12 #5
MineralMan Jan 12 #6
orangecrush Jan 12 #2
MineralMan Jan 12 #3
Cuthbert Allgood Jan 12 #7
MineralMan Jan 12 #8
Ron Obvious Jan 12 #9
marylandblue Jan 12 #11
Ron Obvious Jan 12 #13
marylandblue Jan 12 #10
MineralMan Jan 12 #12
Voltaire2 Jan 12 #16
elleng Jan 12 #14
PragmaticDem Jan 12 #15
Mariana Jan 12 #19
PragmaticDem Jan 12 #21
struggle4progress Jan 12 #17
MineralMan Jan 12 #18
struggle4progress Jan 12 #20
marylandblue Jan 13 #22
struggle4progress Jan 13 #23
marylandblue Jan 13 #24
edhopper Jan 13 #25
MineralMan Jan 13 #28
Alwaysna Jan 13 #26
still_one Jan 13 #27
3catwoman3 Jan 13 #29
MineralMan Jan 13 #30
3catwoman3 Jan 13 #31
MineralMan Jan 13 #32

Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Jan 12, 2018, 03:09 PM

1. Oh I am sure you have to read it as a metaphor... nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ExciteBike66 (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 12, 2018, 03:20 PM

4. Yeah...well...no...

Such restrictions are not all that rare, religion-wise. Not at all. The Patriarchy will do what it can to diminish the importance and value of women. This is just another way to do that.

Menstrual taboos are a commonplace in the religions of the world.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #4)

Fri Jan 12, 2018, 03:22 PM

5. My response was tongue-in-cheek...

feel free to start laughing now!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ExciteBike66 (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 12, 2018, 03:26 PM

6. Ah, OK. LOL!

Now, I see your avatar. I should have known from that, for sure.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Jan 12, 2018, 03:13 PM

2. Amazing


Thanks for posting this.

Not sure what to make of it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to orangecrush (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 12, 2018, 03:18 PM

3. It's a patriarchal thing.

It's another way for men to make women less than themselves. And that, despite the fact that we all owe our lives to a woman. Maybe that's the thing that bothers some men. It's a debt that can never be repaid.

Many old and tribal religions have menstrual taboos. Judaism has or had such restrictions on women. Hinduism still does. Islam, as well, restricts women't religious lives during menstruation.

The Roman Catholic church and all Protestant denominations I know about have abandoned such things, but that's a relatively recent development, historically, at least in the RCC.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Jan 12, 2018, 03:32 PM

7. There is a line of "This is my blood" jokes to be made,

but I don't know if I'm brave enough.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 12, 2018, 03:37 PM

8. I wouldn't. Really.

Humor seems to be less appreciated here than in other places on DU, I think.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Jan 12, 2018, 04:10 PM

9. So no communion if you have the trots?

I never knew that. Apparently my voluntary nocturnal emissions don't rule me out, thank God.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ron Obvious (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 12, 2018, 04:15 PM

11. They do rule you out, but only if you do it while in church

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 12, 2018, 04:20 PM

13. Joykill! n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Jan 12, 2018, 04:11 PM

10. It doesn't make sense, even from a theological perspective

It says that Communion purifies evil, so if menstruation were evil, wouldn't that be the best time to take it?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #10)

Fri Jan 12, 2018, 04:15 PM

12. It's a matter of respect, see...

I mean, what would Jesus think? He was a man, after all...

"Ewww...she has her period...."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #10)

Fri Jan 12, 2018, 06:46 PM

16. Oh but of course it does, because *anything* can be rationalized "from a theological perspective".

Here is some hefty nonsense:

According to the Canons, though a woman is not in any manner more sinful in her cycle than a man is in the case of involuntary bodily emissions, she, like the man, must avoid Holy Communion at this time. These bodily functions are not sins, but they represent and emphasize the consequences of our fallen states. In approaching Holy Communion, we are lifting our fallen selves in the greatest humility to commune with what we are in Christ: literal participants in the Divine. We thus approach Christ as clean vesselsto the greatest possible extent for us in our fallen state, that He might come into us and transform us. Being holy, He comes only to those who strive to holiness. He cannot enter into that which is evil without destroying it. The Eucharist, hence, is the fire that cleanses, for those well prepared, and the fire that burns, for those not prepared. As St. John Chrysostomos writes, "This is a great and wonderful thing, so that if you approach it with pureness, you approach for salvation; but if you do so with an evil conscience, it is for punishment and vengeance."


http://orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/menses.aspx

They justifications end up pointing back to Leviticus. Orthodox Jewish sects are also just awful with respect to women and menstruation. Also see sharia law.

It seems the RCC abolished the rule 100 years ago.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Jan 12, 2018, 04:43 PM

14. 'the consequences of our fallen states,'

being human, I guess.

Sorry.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Jan 12, 2018, 06:33 PM

15. That is ridiculous!

 

A woman's biological cycle should not prevent her from receiving communion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PragmaticDem (Reply #15)

Fri Jan 12, 2018, 09:23 PM

19. It shouldn't but it does, in these denominations.

It's a handy way to make sure women know they're lesser beings than men.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mariana (Reply #19)

Fri Jan 12, 2018, 11:00 PM

21. Exactly!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Jan 12, 2018, 08:56 PM

17. Holy Communion and Menstruation

ON MARCH 26, 2015 BY FR. TED

Occasionally an old debate re-emerges and parishioners get caught up in the ideas being argued ... We see this being addressed for example in the .. Apostolic Constitutions, written about 375AD ... The point .. is that .. baptized and chrismated Christians .. have been given the Holy Spirit, which cannot be taken away .. by conjugal acts or natural emissions ... Since we donít lose the Holy Spirit through acts of natural emission or conjugal acts, then we can receive Holy Communion after such acts ... This .. document is ..clear that only Christians with wrong ideas about menstruation and the like will abstain from Holy Communion ... Though the teaching about menstruating women and Holy Communion has .. varied in different periods .. and in the varying cultures influenced by Orthodoxy, there have been .. clear teachings that .. this should not be a concern ...

https://frted.wordpress.com/2015/03/26/holy-communion-and-menstruation/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to struggle4progress (Reply #17)

Fri Jan 12, 2018, 09:01 PM

18. That's pastoral advice, not doctrinal law.

I'm pretty sure the quote I provided is still officially in force. It can be found in many places, too.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #18)

Fri Jan 12, 2018, 10:35 PM

20. Why should anyone credit your summary of Orthodox practice? "Orthodox" covers

a large number of traditions, resulting from a history of countrywide churches and therefore not all the same;

you appear to have no actual interest in any of them nor do you seem to have any interest in their differences;

and (in fact) your primary motive appears to be to ridicule them as a group, without regard for the diversity of views there

The Orthodox are a small group in the US: with the exception of sparsely-inhabited Alaska, where the Orthodox might be 5% of the population, US states usually have an Orthodox population below 1%. The national average is around 0.34%, translating to something like one million in the whole country

The Orthodox in the US are also rather split

Among the Eastern (or Byzantine) Orthodox here, there are separate governing organizations for: the Greek Orthodox; the Orthodox Church in America; the Antiochian Orthodox; the Serbian Orthodox; the Russian Orthodox; the Ukrainian Orthodox; the Macedonian Orthodox; the Russian Patriarchal; the Romanian Orthodox; the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox; the Bulgarian Orthodox; the Georgian Orthodox; and the Albanian Orthodox. Of these, only the first group has over 100 000 members

Among the Oriental (or Non-Chalcedonian) Orthodox here, there are: the Armenian Orthodox, the Coptic Orthodox, the Ethiopian Orthodox, the Syrian Orthodox, the Malankara Orthodox, and the Eritrean Orthodox (all resulting from a schism in 451 AD)

I note that in the US today, membership in any of these small denominations in entirely voluntary

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to struggle4progress (Reply #20)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 12:24 AM

22. You have not actually refuted or defended the practice

Instead you've simply pointed out that there are diverse Orthodox traditions and there aren't that many Orthodox in the US, which I guess is supposed to mean it's all okay. And your ad hominem attack on the OP makes no sense, it's from a website that appears to be by an Orthodox Christian for Orthodox Christians. So why would that be inaccurate?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marylandblue (Reply #22)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 12:45 AM

23. There are all kinds of people with all kinds of strange ideas that many of us don't share.

The Orthodox are a small minority of Americans. What is the point of ridiculing them as a group, on the basis of an view not all of them share?

And why would anyone -- who does not even regard the Eucharist seriously -- care in the least?

Moreover, anyone who belongs to a church actually teaching this doctrine is entirely free to leave that church -- so why should any of us care about this?





Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to struggle4progress (Reply #23)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 08:33 AM

24. I have this strange idea that girls should not be taught their bodies are unclean

Why should you care if we ridicule the IDEA? We are not ridiculing people, just the harmful and outdated idea. And there are about 300 million Orthodox Christians worldwide. Are the official opinions of their church okay just because most of them don't live in the US? I hope most of the laity don't agree with the church on this, which would make it even more ridiculous if it were still taught as church doctrine.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to struggle4progress (Reply #23)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 08:44 AM

25. At what point do we show concern for these

quirky orthodox practices?

teaching creationism?

moving the US Embassy in Israel?

marrying more than one woman?

denying rights to gay people.

ending abortion?


Please tell us the tipping point when one of these religious practices becomes consequencial?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to struggle4progress (Reply #20)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 09:47 AM

28. You are incorrect.

My motive is simply to illustrate ridiculous holdovers from the past that still exist. As for Orthodox churches in the United States, there are very active Greek, Russian and Coptic Orthodox congregations in the Minneapolis St. Paul area.

I'm not looking for anyone to "credit" anything. I posted information from a link. Anyone can visit that link or do the same search I did on Google.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 09:06 AM

26. So what happens to a guy

If he is sweating? Should he also avoid holy communion? What's in those crackers/wine that only the purists of pure can receive? Are they made by virgins?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 09:17 AM

27. This is obviously a carry over from Leviticus in the old testament, and represents the example

of the sexist ignorance and bigotry that is contained within the old testament. Not surprisingly there are similar "rules" in Islam, where for example during a woman's period, women aren't supposed to pray or fast for Ramadan.

It isn't just the Judeo-Christian traditions, Hinduism and other Eastern religions, while usually less restrictive, also have "issues" with a woman's cycle. Hinduism for instant considers menstruating women as ritually impure and given special rules to follow.

All this does is highlight that the major religions that most are familiar with were created by men.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 11:02 AM

29. Here is a link to a DU thread...

...from this week -

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1218266789

Why are men so afraid of women?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 3catwoman3 (Reply #29)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 11:16 AM

30. Yes. That thread, in part, led me to do some research and post this one.

I have a theory about why men are so afraid of women. I think it is the fact that every man is born of a woman and owes his life to the care provided by a woman. It is impossible not to recognize that, and it represents a debt that cannot be repaid. Men owe their very lives to a woman.

Debts that cannot be repaid often lead to denial that the debt exists, and resistance to recognition of the debt. By pushing women down and making them subservient, men have found a way to put that debt out of mind and to prevent themselves from being reminded of the fact that they owe their very lives to women.

That is a very cynical theory, but that's my theory. I believe it is a subconscious thing, but something that is deeply understood at some level and systematically suppressed through patriarchal systems.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #30)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 12:28 PM

31. Any thoughts on why women are typically blamed for men's...

...irresponsible sexual behavior? (Obviously not all men.) If I were a man, I think I would be highly insulted to have it presumed that I could not control myself at the mere glimpse of any part of a woman's body - ankle, neck, face, hair. Even her totally naked body.

My mom pretty well beat it in to my head that it was u to me to control not only my own behavior while dating, but the behavior of the males involved. It was "cruel" to allow to much kissing and cause arousal that you weren't going to allow to proceed to intercourse. I actually used to count kisses - more than 6-8, and it was time to stop. That was a heavy burden.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 3catwoman3 (Reply #31)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 12:59 PM

32. Men who have poor self-control

are likely to blame women if their lack of control leads to problems. They're unwilling to either control themselves or to accept that women have agency over their sexual lives. That's really regrettable, I think.

Beyond that, I don't really have any insights. Very early in my adolescent years, I figured out that what I wanted and what someone else wanted were not necessarily the same thing. So, my answer was to not do anything sexually, unless there was enthusiastic consent on the part of the other person involved. That meant that there was no set number of kisses or anything else that meant that any further activity was wanted or desired.

The result was a complete lack of any problems with unwanted sexual activity. Ever. I soon learned that the girls and women I dated would let me know whether they wanted to engage in things at any level and would let me know if they wanted to back off or back up. That eliminated any unwanted advances on my part and resulted in a complete lack of conflict. Complete respect for another person's wishes has always seemed to me to be the best practice.

That didn't seem to slow down anything very much, really. It certainly prevented any issues, though. It all made perfect sense to me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread