Christmas billboard campaign revisited

[Voltaire2]

and



this post won't disappear.

[HopeAgain]

1. Evangelistic Atheism?

I guess people are more the same than they want to believe...

[trotsky]

3. If false equivalency makes you feel better, sure.

In the case of non-belief, it's more like "you are not alone." I don't see any threats in those billboards, I don't see any false promises about the afterlife, I don't see them attacking anyone. Is that really the "same" as this kind of bullshit?

[HopeAgain]

31. I don't understand the need to advertise

My beliefs to anyone. I don't find any of the
billboards posted here to be respectful.

[trotsky]

33. Atheists are often marginalized and despised, even in their own families and communities.

Many don't even know there are others who don't believe.

I think it's worth letting them know they aren't alone.

[HopeAgain]

35. By calling other's beliefs fake news?

Maybe that approach would contribute to being marginalized?.

[trotsky]

38. Yep.

It's a timely and effective message.

Let me ask you one question, though: do you think there are any ideas BESIDES religion that should be free from being questioned or doubted?

[HopeAgain]

47. I don't think there are any ideas that can't be questioned

But when people start pushing their beliefs, rather than letting people believe what they will, there is often a tendency to get pushy and/or disrespectful (or just arrogant). That's how I feel about the billboard. I have no issue with people being atheist.

[Act_of_Reparation]

53. You have no issue with people being atheist.

As long as they're quiet about it.

Yeah, we get it.

[HopeAgain]

63. I don't really have a problem

It's free speech, say what you want. I don't really care. My first comment was that I think there is a parallel between any arrogant approach ("fake news" ) towards another's belief's, whether evangelical or atheist.

[Act_of_Reparation]

81. Is there a way to advertise atheism you wouldn't find arrogant?

If so, explain.

[HopeAgain]

83. Yes

"We don't believe in God." "Join us for an atheist holiday." "Join millions wo have no belief in God." But to take Trump's derisive mantra?

[Act_of_Reparation]

87. Those are some catchy slogans.

[trotsky]

55. So what do you think of this one?

[HopeAgain]

61. You keep missing my point

I would be okay with one that says "Atheists: You are not alone" Or even "Atheists meet every Tuesdays at Joe's diner." But they had to go the extra mile and diss religion with the "Fake News."

Talk about false equivalencies: are you saying that atheists are facing discrimination like the Muslims? totally apples to oranges there.

[trotsky]

62. I am merely asking what you think of the billboard.

You stated:

"...when people start pushing their beliefs, rather than letting people believe what they will, there is often a tendency to get pushy and/or disrespectful (or just arrogant)."

Do you think the billboard in my post #55 is disrespectful (or just arrogant)?

[HopeAgain]

64. No because it describes their beliefs without attacking others

[trotsky]

66. The atheist billboards don't attack others either.

They attack ideas, not people.

As a religious person, you FEEL you are being attacked when it's just your idea that is being criticized.

That's the problem I hoped to illustrate, and you helped me perfectly. Thank you.

[HopeAgain]

67. Yay, maybe you got a new convert?

I'm tellin' ya, not so different...

[trotsky]

68. And back full circle to false equivalency.

Well, maybe someone else learned something. Thanks anyway.

[Mariana]

72. Pushing their beliefs?

Expressing one's beliefs, or lack of them, is not "pushing", and neither is it preventing anyone else from believing what they will.

[HopeAgain]

73. They can use the term "fake news"

So can I just express my view and use the term "arrogance"?

[Mariana]

75. Of course you can. Whoever suggested otherwise? nt.

[Pope George Ringo II]

78. "I don't believe that stuff anymore" is disrespectful?

That's setting the bar for disrespectful a little low, don't you think?

[trotsky]

80. Not when it comes to religion.

"I disagree with you" is apparently one of the most offensive things you can say.

[HopeAgain]

84. "Fake news"

Trump's favorite derisive mantra

[Pope George Ringo II]

85. You said you didn't find any of them to be respectful.

Please either explain how "I don't believe that stuff anymore" is disrespectful or clarify that you don't actually have a problem with that one.

[HopeAgain]

86. Where did I specifically say that?

I don't find that disrespectful and frankly I only find the billboard itself mildly disrespectful. People can say what they want. I just originally commented regarding the fact that both evangelists and atheist buy billboards and that some may share a zeal to convince others of personal beliefs that I don't understand.

[Mariana]

96. In reply #31, you said,

"I don't understand the need to advertise my beliefs to anyone. I don't find any of the
billboards posted here to be respectful."

Have you changed your mind, then?

[HopeAgain]

98. Did I miss a billboard that says "I don't believe that stuff anymore"?

Please re-post the billboard if I did

[Mariana]

99. You must have, because it's in the OP. nt.

[HopeAgain]

100. Honestly, I missed that because I have a free version of DU

There's always an add at the top of an OP, so I must have thought that top one was just an add and I only saw the "fake news" one. Also it doesn't look like a billboard, but I'll comment. The bug eyes on the woman is a bit obnoxious, but the text doesn't bother me. Again, I have an opinion about what is respectful, but I don't have anything to say about someone's right to put up a billboard that says whatever they want.

Maybe some want me to be bug-eyed about these billboards like the woman in that add? Sorry, I just was commenting on the subject of billboards and beliefs... on both sides. It does feel like some on here actually want that reaction though so they can jump on it.

[Mariana]

102. Many of us have experienced something like the bug eyes.

Plenty of atheists have watched a friend, neighbor, coworker, or family member come utterly unglued when they learn we don't believe as they do. I understand why they used that image.

[Pope George Ringo II]

105. Fair enough.

The eyes might be a little cartoonish, but if that's the worst which can be said about that one then it could be worse.

[CrispyQ]

26. Sure!

[underpants]

51. 😆

[3catwoman3]

52. That is hilarious!

[left-of-center2012]

2. Just curious ...

Do atheists give and receive Christmas gifts?

[trotsky]

4. My atheist family does.

Because the origins of the holiday (and its major traditions) have nothing to do with Christianity.

[left-of-center2012]

5. the origins of the holiday

Please enlighten me

[trotsky]

6. OK

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/12/1220_021220_solstice.html

https://www.thoughtco.com/all-about-yule-2562972

Particularly: https://www.thoughtco.com/christmas-customs-with-pagan-roots-2563021

[Cartoonist]

7. The winter solstice

This is a real event. No need to believe in any BS.

It never ceases to sadden me when someone knows all about Xmas, a phony date, but knows nothing about reality, like where we are in the universe, and how the Sun and Earth relate to each other.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

13. Really? You don't know?

It's about the return of the sun. The cold is going to go away. The dark is going to go away. Let's celebrate because Spring's a-coming.

Do you need anybody to break the pagan roots of Easter to you? (spoilers: SPRING IS HERE; LET'S GET TO FUCKING!)

[trotsky]

15. Careful... one holiday at a time.

Don't want to shock them too much at once, ya know.

[Pope George Ringo II]

77. On a related note:

The god's birth is celebrated based on the Winter Solstice.
The god's re-birth is celebrated based on the Spring Equinox.
The first words put in the god's mouth are, "Let there be light."
The god is often described as "The Light of the World."
The god's enemy is the "Prince of Darkness."

This is basically what happens when a sun-god cult gets waaaaaay out of hand.

[Voltaire2]

8. No we are joyless dour sociopaths

who are out to kill all your silly gods.

Why do you ask?

[trotsky]

9. HEY!

Shhhh!!! Don't let them in on the secret!

[NeoGreen]

10. As a response, here is one of my favorite "christmas" songs...

...that provides a perspective similar to some of my views on the subject:

...

[Iggo]

12. We give and receive gifts during the season that everybody else is giving and receiving gifts.

I also get the day off with pay.

Thanksgiving, too.

And Good Friday.

Thoughts?

[Mariana]

21. Why shouldn't they?

Christmas is a national holiday. That means it's a holiday for everyone in the nation, not just a religious holiday for Christians. I believe it is also a state holiday in every state.

Here's an analogy. My husband is an immigrant, and he participated in Independence Day celebrations for years while he was not a US citizen.

[yallerdawg]

11. A better, more inclusive, more tolerant seasonal message?

[Lordquinton]

14. Such as?

Do you take issue with christian billboards that have the inverse message?

[yallerdawg]

16. If you want to move Christians...

why do you think belittling their faith is the way to do it?

Or is the point just to belittle?

[Lordquinton]

17. No answer?

Why is that?

[yallerdawg]

19. Your "questions" are irrelevant.

I offered a better message for a better purpose.

You want to go off on a tangent of "billboards you don't like."

[Lordquinton]

25. Ah yes, the "You are asking questions I don't like" responce

very typical of theists when responding to people who question them.

They are very relevant because whenever a billboard like this comes up people crawl over themselves to condemn it, while the inverse barely raises a blip. That you discard it so casually tells all that is needed about your views on that.

As an aside, did you ever consider that these billboards aren't aimed at you? Look past your privilege.

[yallerdawg]

27. I asked the first question.

Which you answered with two questions.

You're not my employee, I don't command you, you don't answer to me. That's fine.

You also are not required to extend the same courtesy to me. That's fine, too. It's your "privilege."

[Lordquinton]

37. I went back and looked at your post

And this was the first time that your image loaded for me, I'd have to go back and revise my statements, but that will have tonwait. For a while.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

18. This does nothing near what the ones in the OP do.

Contrary to your indication that the OP billboards "bash" religion, they are put up to let others know that they are not alone if they are atheists. That feeling of isolation is something that a lot of atheists feel. Those billboards are not about converting Christians to atheism. Don't worry.

Do you really think that your example does that? Do you not realize that they example you post here completely leave atheists and atheism out of the discussion?

[yallerdawg]

20. The message "we are all equal in the eyes of God" doesn't include atheists and everyone?

You don't think atheists are redeemed, too, in the story of Christ?

I don't know what century your vision of Christianity comes from, but most Christians believe judgment is reserved for God, and we are commanded to love one another. Some get it wrong, but most don't!

[Cuthbert Allgood]

22. Maybe atheists don't want to keep CONTINUALLY hearing about your Christ.

Maybe we don't really care. Maybe just keep it to yourself. Maybe we want to know that in the midst of all these overly open and out Christians there are SOME people that don't believe in a god just like we don't.

But, hey, it's all about you and your Christ. (You really don't see your privilege do you?)

[yallerdawg]

28. Someone posted these billboards. Again. With a promise to keep them up.

Proselytize much?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

36. Yes

They are saying, "Hey, don't worry. There are other atheists out there. It's OK."

You have a problem with that message?

[Voltaire2]

57. Me!

Last poster didn’t like the discussion and locked the thread by self deleting.

I won’t do that.

[Mariana]

23. We are all equal in the eyes of God.

Yes. We are all equally sinners and all equally deserving of eternal punishment for that.

[yallerdawg]

29. That's a pessimistic outlook.

That's all you get from this?

Well, I guess it goes hand in hand with there is no meaning to life, it's all randomness, and we have no past and no future - we are of no consequence. Yaaay.

[Mariana]

32. That was drilled into my head during my childhood.

There's plenty in the book that supports that.

I don't know where the rest of your post comes from. I don't know of anyone who believes there is no meaning to life, it's all randomness, we have no past and no future, and we are of no consequence.

[yallerdawg]

34. Atheism is disbelief in anything, is it not?

How could it be anything other than a pessimistic point of view?

Isn't this the path and the destination?

[MineralMan]

39. No. It's just disbelief in deities and other such supernatural entities.

I believe lots of stuff that I've seen evidence for. I don't "believe IN" that stuff, though. I simply believe it's true.

Gods? Nah. I don't believe they exist, but I don't mind if you're able to believe that. I don't care all that much, really.

Where did you get the idea that atheists have no beliefs at all. "Theism" is a belief in deities. "Atheism" simply means a lack of believe in them. It's a simple word.

[yallerdawg]

40. If you are familiar with Christianity...

or any other religions, then disbelief - a rejection of something as being untrue - is necessary.

Atheism - as often apparent here at DU - in not a passive position.

[MineralMan]

50. I'm familiar with a lot of religions.

I've studied them. I still don't believe that any deities exist. I don't disbelieve that people believe they exit. I simply don't believe they do, myself. I just don't have that believe, and can't imagine any way that I could believe that they exist. Belief is active. Non-belief is not. If you can, and do believe that a deity or deities exist, I accept that you believe. I just don't care and don't share that belief.

Good luck to you.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

41. You need to change your world view of atheism and atheists.

It is not a pessimistic world view. That you think so is something you need to deal with, not us.

[yallerdawg]

42. "What happens to you after you die?"

I rest my case.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

43. Nothing.

What happens to you? You don't know. How is that less depressing?

The difference in my mind is that this life is IT for me. I HAVE to make the most of it because there is nothing after. I love every day. I do my best to let those I love know that I love them often, because there is a chance I will never see them again. Each day I see a beautiful sunset is an incredible experience that I cherish.

I get that you can't fathom the mindset that there is nothing after death. Doesn't mean I'm a depressed pessimist.

[yallerdawg]

44. There is an optimistic outlook...

and there is a pessimistic outlook.

As anticipated, you confirmed who has the pessimistic outlook.

What could be more pessimistic than "Nothing?"

[Cuthbert Allgood]

45. How about "maybe something but who knows"?

At least I have an answer.

And you are kind of insulting, frankly. I gave you a very fair and heartfelt response about why I don't see my outlook as pessimistic and how that guides my daily life. And you just shit on that. So, plank in your own eye and all.

[yallerdawg]

46. Your answer was "Nothing."

How does "Maybe something but who knows" jive with atheism?

The OP is "kind of insulting" to a freakin' lot of people!

All I did was offer a positive alternative point of view.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

48. Your answer is "maybe something but who knows."

You have no proof of anything beyond my answer of "nothing." None. You don't know what happens. And, given the mean side of the Abrahamic god, there is the chance you get eternal punishment in a sea of fire. That's pretty depressing.

The OP is a billboard intended to make isolated atheists feel not alone. That's OK if some others are insulted. This is a discussion between individuals and I'm trying to get you to see your misconceptions of the world view of atheist (sure, there are some nihilists that are atheists, but that isn't a required view point--most I know are just like me).

Would it be great to think that I'm going to see my mom again? Sure. But I'm not. And as a result, I made sure to let her know how I felt and get the most out of every minute I spent with her while I had her. Am I sad she's dead? Sure. But we had a good run. Now I need to make sure my kids, wife, and dear friends know the same about how I feel and that we get to experience as much as possible together. How is that possibly pessimistic in your mind?

[yallerdawg]

49. You are choosing a pessimistic viewpoint.

Yes, it's a choice. And you still have no certainty.

If your choice makes you comfortable and content, so be it.

But if you were ever looking for more - who would want that shutdown and silent?

[Mariana]

97. It is neither pessimistic nor optimistic.

What I would choose to believe has no effect whatsoever on reality. Wanting something to be true will never make it true.

[SCantiGOP]

56. more pessimistic than nothing?

How about eternal suffering in Hell.
And why would a loving and merciful God send anyone to that fate? Because he loves them!!

[yallerdawg]

58. "Hell" is seperation from God for all eternity.

"Hell" is rejection of the meaning given to life and the purpose we have here.

"Hell" is a voluntary choice, not a punishment.

You argue there should be no consequences for the choices we make. My experience has been that just isn't the way the world works.

[Voltaire2]

71. How the hell would you know that?

Other people have different opinions on this hell thing. What if the eternal torture is reserved for people who believe that:

Hell" is rejection of the meaning given to life and the purpose we have here.

"Hell" is a voluntary choice, not a punishment.

OH NOSE!

[Mariana]

74. The whole point of Christianity is to evade consequences.

The wages of sin is death, or separation from God, or eternal torture, or some other unpleasant thing, depending on which flavor of Christianity one subscribes to. And the book makes it very clear that everyone is a sinner, so no one deserves to go to heaven. You can't earn your way in, the book says your good deeds are like filthy rags because everything is polluted by sin.

Christians, however, don't have to deal with the consequences of their sinful lives, after they've shuffled off the mortal coil. They get pardoned, no matter how horrible their acts might have been. So let's be honest about exactly who it is that wants - and expects - there to be no consequences.

[MineralMan]

79. Ahh...pointing out an unpopular fact.

Nicely done. Christianity is the short-cut religion. One-step salvation. That's one of the reasons it flourished.

[yallerdawg]

82. If you believe that is what Christianity is about...

no wonder you reject "religion."

But this sounds more like the tail wagging the dog than "fact."

[MineralMan]

88. I'm just an observer of religion.

And that's my observation about Christianity and why it grew so popular.

You might have a different opinion.

[yallerdawg]

89. Christianity is a lot more than a "get-out-of-jail-free-card."

I'm sure Christians have a much different opinion.

When they proclaimed their faith and were fed to the lions for entertainment, what were they getting away with?

[MineralMan]

90. If you say so...

[marylandblue]

91. Christianity today is not what it was 2000 years ago.

For mant Protestants today, it's "by faith alone," even if you have a deathbed conversion. I've spoken to many Christians who think that. I even asked some if the Jewish children who died in concentration camps were in hell, and any of the camp guards who repented would be in heaven. And they said yes, that's how God in his "mercy" does it, because really we all belong in hell, just a few lucky ones get saved just be believing they will be saved.

If they think that's okay, they are no different from Republicans who don't care if the world goes to shit as long as they get their tax break. In fact, most of them are Republicans.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

92. Only if your specific concept of hell is right.

What if the Calvinists are right? What if god just tosses you in hell because he fucking can? No reason. Just screw you.

What if the Catholics are right and you will not be in heaven because you had to chance to accept the one true religion and didn't take it? Or if you died before you were able to confess and had a mortal sin on your soul. Off to hell you go.

Of course there are consequences for the choices we make. I have consequences every day. I tend to think it is more realistic that my consequences are in the here and now and I don't have the ability to just ask for forgiveness for the crap I've done and avoid all punishment. Unless that isn't the Christianity I subscribe to, I guess.

[PassingFair]

108. Hell? nt

[yallerdawg]

109. Easily avoided!

More likely pessimists would choose that path, don't you think?

[rurallib]

54. hardly - but that is the way we are portrayed, I guess

[Voltaire2]

59. Disbelief in Santa Claus is also very pessimistic.

I try to be aware of reality as it is, not as it might be if only Zeus existed.

[yallerdawg]

60. Would the world be a better place...

if there were no Santa Claus?

Would you like to put up billboards?

Pessimism is like porn. I know it when I see it.

Liberals are supposed to be optimistic, aren't we?

[Voltaire2]

65. SPOILER ALERT!

"Would the world be a better place if there were no Santa Claus?"

- there is no santa claus.

[yallerdawg]

69. You never fail...

to meet my expectations!

[Voltaire2]

70. You are a fabulous straight man. Keep setting them up.

[marylandblue]

94. No, liberals are supposed to believe in truth

Last edited Wed Dec 6, 2017, 04:40 PM - Edit history (1)

You've come up with a lot of reasons to believe in something, none of which have anything to do with the belief being true. Is that what you teach your kids? 2+2=5, because having 5 apples is better than 4? Global warming doesn't exist because we should always be optimistic? And spend all your time praying to a god who doesn't exist because it would better if it did exist?

[Mariana]

24. The only reason these things make the news

is because there are so very few of them. No one will report on the thousands upon thousands of religious billboards up there, in all their variety - some welcoming, some threatening, some loving, and some utterly hateful. It's normal to drive down the road and see religious billboards. It's very unusual to see those like the ones in the OP. The few that do get put up tend to get vandalized pretty quickly.

[trotsky]

30. "The few that do get put up tend to get vandalized pretty quickly."

Given the reaction they've received so far on a left-leaning message board, it isn't difficult to understand why. Many on the left are only OK with atheists if we just shut up and stay in the corner.

Not a smart strategy given that the "unaffiliated" are now the nation's largest single "religious" group, but we all know how difficult it is for those who have benefited from religious privilege all their lives.

[d_r]

76. Just my opinion

but these particular billboards in these pictures are kind of stupid. The message isn't "you aren't alone" it is antagonistic, and the reaction that "believers" have to that will be to cling to their beliefs even harder. That's how people are. Think of cognitive science. Anyone who disagrees with it will only feel more strongly in their disagreement in response to it. The people that go to church have strong feelings about it, and attacking it is only going to put them on the defense. There's nothing really positive here for anyone, just na-na-na.

[Act_of_Reparation]

93. Were things better for atheists when they were quiet and deferential?

Were theists more receptive to our perspective? More willing to reevaluate their privilege?

If so, I totes missed it.

[d_r]

104. I'm not sure

those are the only two options though.

[Act_of_Reparation]

106. The answer is "no"

If there's some way an atheist can say "I am an atheist" in public without pissing someone off, I'm all ears.

[d_r]

107. that is a good point

I think there is a difference between "apathiest" (don't care), "atheist" (don't believe), and "antitheist" (against). To me, this billboard is more "antitheist" than "atheist," but nobody asked me for my input on it anyway.

[Mariana]

95. They could be less obnoxious, that's for sure.

I don't much like these, I prefer the ones that simply say something like, You're Not Alone and put up a link to a website of some such thing.

However, the fact remains that even the most hateful Christian billboards never get written up as a new story, while there are articles about even the most benign atheist ones that have no offensive language whatsoever.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2016/08/dont_believe_in_god_cny_humanists_billboard_says_youre_not_alone.html

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Dont-Believe-in-God-Youre-Not-Alone.html

And so on.

[d_r]

103. I mean I get it

I often fantasize about renting billboards after those "my heart was beating in 16 days" signs saying something like "use your brains, morans, that doesn't make any sense." I get the desire to be snarky, I'm just saying.

[guillaumeb]

101. Winning hearts and minds throught sarcasm, condescension, and insults.

Well, considering that 85% of humans are theists, perhaps winning is not the correct word.