Late Night: David Barton and Jon Stewart debate Thomas Jefferson

[rug]

May 2, 2012 | 7:20am

Author and activist David Barton is a hero to fundamentalist Christians such as Kirk Cameron, Mike Huckabee and Michele Bachmann because of his opposition to the idea that America was founded as a secular country. He's also become a favorite sparring partner for Jon Stewart, who welcomed him once again to "The Daily Show" on Tuesday night to discuss his new book, "The Jefferson Lies."

Barton argues Thomas Jefferson was not an atheist but rather "nondenominational," and that his religious views have been distorted over the years. Stewart wasn't convinced by Barton's initial precept -- that Jefferson is widely assumed to be an atheist -- or by his broader claim that Christianity is, somehow, under attack in the United States.

"Coming from a non-Christian perspective, Christianity seems pretty safe, and pretty ubiquitous, and kind of overwhelming at times," he said, echoing the sentiments he has expressed many times before. "It feels like it’s the most accepted thing we have other than snack foods."

Tellingly, Barton didn't actually disagree with Stewart on this point. ("Yeah," he said, shrugging.) But he did contend hostility to Christianity is a pervasive problem, and that it's fueled by the types of people who believe that Jefferson was an atheist.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2012/05/late-night-david-barton-and-jon-stewart-debate-thomas-jefferson.html

Video at link.

[cbayer]

1. I look forward to watching this this evening.

I can only get The Daily Show on the next day.

[Emillereid]

2. I actually thought Jon was a wimp with this historically inaccurate 'historian.'

At best, Jefferson was a deist. http://www.nobeliefs.com/jefferson.htm

[eqfan592]

4. I wanted to watch the extended interview...

...because I think Jon was about to dive into the meat of the issue just as they had to end the interview. I think the main point is that no matter what Jefferson's religion was, his views on church and state separation are what is important. Being religious does not equate to wanting state sponsored religious activities, and that seems to be the assumption being made by the author of this book.

[Adsos Letter]

11. This ^

[Astrad]

3. Jefferson was a self-proclaimed

Epicurean. (Jefferson and Nature, p. 24)

[darkstar3]

5. I just watched that interview a few minutes ago, and let me tell you

Mr. Barton engaged in an absolutely pernicious lie. To state, categorically, that religious speech is treated differently, and more stringently, by the government than other free speech is unmitigated bullshit. If anything, the religious in this country have banked on the "but it's my religion" card to defend the inappropriate overreach of their religion into our government for decades.

He even hit the nail on the head by accident. He admitted that 83% of people in this country identify as Christian, and then said "but when it comes to public policy..." The man is a theocrat, along with all those in his organization "Wallbuilders" who wish to sell the idea that America is without question a "Christian Nation," and should therefore be governed by Christian morality laws.

The utter mendacity of these people never ceases to frustrate me.

[cbayer]

6. This guy appears to be panicking, and well he should be.

The fundamentalists are losing their political power. He can cry that they are being persecuted all he wants.

I thought Jon did a pretty good job with him. I think he really missed out on the opportunity to make some distinction between the kinds of people this guy represents and other kinds of christians.

There is hostility out there and it's well deserved. When you try to deny basic human rights to other people, you deserve derision.

[trotsky]

7. Interesting.

There is hostility out there and it's well deserved. When you try to deny basic human rights to other people, you deserve derision.

I'll be bookmarking this one. Thanks!

[E_Pluribus_Unitarian]

8. By Barton's standards, none of this would make him a non-denominational Christian...

"The population of my neighborhood is too slender and is too much divided into sects to maintain any one preacher well. I must therefore be content to be a Unitarian by myself, although I know there are many who would become so if once they heard the questions fairly stated."

(...from a letter to Benjamin Rush, January 8, 1825)

___________

"I rejoice that in this blessed country of free inquiry and belief, which has surrendered its creed and conscience to neither kings nor priests, the genuine doctrine of only one God is reviving, and I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian."

(...from a letter to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse, June 26, 1822)

___________

"The atmosphere of our country is unquestionably charged with a threatening cloud of fanaticism...The diffusion of instruction will be the remote remedy to this fever of fanaticism; while the more proximate one will be the progress of Unitarianism. That this will, ere long, be the religion of the majority from North to South, I have no doubt."

(...from a letter to Thomas Cooper, November 2, 1822) 


...funny how Barton, the objective "historian", omits this.

[edhopper]

9. His book should be titled

My Lies about Jefferson.

He is a pseudo-historian with a degree from Oral Roberts U and an advocate of a theological based Christan US.

[AlbertCat]

10. a degree from Oral Roberts U

Is it wrong of me...?

but that's enough for me to listen to him with GREAT doubt and many caveats.

I tried to watch, but I really just don't care what he has to say.


Why does no one ever mention, that in 1776, we rejected rule by kings. A "Christian Nation" in 1776 was one ruled by a king who derived his power from being chosen by god to rule. The very idea of America was to reject this... to reject being a "Christian Nation". The whole point of the United States of America was to NOT be a Christian Nation.

[edhopper]

12. And they always

disregard the Treaty of Tripoli