A pedophilia scandal is engulfing the oldest Catholic institution in France

[EvolveOrConvolve]

http://theweek.com/articles/613504/pedophilia-scandal-engulfing-oldest-catholic-institution-france

A miracle did not occur in Lourdes last week.

Instead, on March 15, the French media descended on the pilgrimage site in southwestern France, which is hosting a conference of the country's bishops. The journalists came to grill Cardinal Philippe Barbarin, who, as bearer of the ancient title "primat des Gaules," is France's most prominent Catholic cleric. As the cardinal of Lyon, France's second largest city, he runs a diocese rocked by a series of sexual abuse scandals. (The diocese of Lyons is also the oldest Catholic institution in France, stretching back to the Gallo-Roman period.) With the cicada-like clatter of clicking cameras, Barbarin declared he had "never, never, never" hid any act of pedophilia committed by his priests. Staring hard through his severe wire-rimmed glasses, Barbarin observed that none of these acts had happened under his watch. Besides, he noted, these crimes had passed the statute of limitations, so they could not be prosecuted.

"Dieu merci," he added with a sigh.

Rarely have so few words cut so deeply into the hearts of so many. With what seemed greater concern over legal liabilities for the church than the emotional scars of the victims, Barbarin compounded his clergy's sins of commission with a stunning sin of omission. The whole episode, since baptized the French "Spotlight," may well have consequences as seismic for the French church as the Boston case had for its American counterpart.

[guillaumeb]

1. This is from march 22, 2016.

Does this really qualify as recent news?

[Heddi]

2. Not sure there is any rule that requires "recent" news in the Religion group

Perhaps you're thinking of LBN?

[guillaumeb]

3. This is from march 22, 2016. So it has been previously posted.

Democratic Underground - March 22, 2016
www.democraticunderground.com/?com=archives&date=2016x3x22

Mar 22, 2016 - Kansas policies causing a 30 million $ deficit in Wichita School district...deep cuts coming .... A pedophilia scandal is engulfing the oldest Catholic institution in France ..... France's Top Wines Face Climate 'Tipping Point'.

So at best it is a repeat of a previously posted topic.

[Heddi]

4. I'm sure you can appeal to Skinner to make a new rule

that posts must meet your exacting requirements before being posted.

You should alert on it if it's so bothersome to you.

[guillaumeb]

5. Just pointing out the tactics of some who are apparently so

determined to make a point that they repost old items.

Perhaps I should repost my atheistic intolerance post about the Boston Atheist group who could not tolerate differences of opinion.

That one certainly irritated quite a few people here.

[The Sand Reckoner]

13. Feel free

if you think it helps to prove that your god exists.

Hint...it won't.

[guillaumeb]

16. The point was that intolerance is a human characteristic.

I now it does not sound controversial, but it was met with a bit of anger from a few non-theists.

[The Sand Reckoner]

25. Who is more likely to employ critical thinking skills

atheists or religious believers? Which of the two is more likely to change their viewpoint based on actual evidence?

[guillaumeb]

27. People with actual critical thinking skills.

Your question seems framed to suggest your own viewpoint.

[The Sand Reckoner]

32. Your answer, should you ever choose to give it

can be framed to suggest your own viewpoint, and you are even free to back your answer up with evidence.

[rug]

33. Ah, you consider hostile snark to be a critical thinking skill.

Is snarling one as well?

[guillaumeb]

34. Your actual response:

Who is more likely to employ critical thinking skills

atheists or religious believers? Which of the two is more likely to change their viewpoint based on actual evidence?

Even though your words are framed as a question, you are actually revealing your own opinion of believers. Richard Dawkins might approve of your framing.

It is obvious that you have a bias for one particular type of belief, and you have the right to that belief, and that bias.

[The Sand Reckoner]

35. These questions do not touch on matters of belief or faith

But on questions of examinable reality and fact, separate from anyone's subjective opinion. So I reject your characterization.

As far as bias, is it biased to favor evolution over creationism as a worldview? Is it biased to favor the Copernican model of the solar system over the Ptolemaic version? Is it biased to provisionally favor the point of view with the greatest amount of supporting evidence? Or is it simply rational?

[guillaumeb]

36. Who here is arguing for the Ptolemaic model of the solar system?

if you find such a person, please link to that argument.

And you are free to personally reject my characterization of your framing.

Now if you were asking me for my personal beliefs, I would define myself as a Christian who accepts that science represents the search for answers regarding physical existence, and that my faith represents an attempt to define the relationship between created and Creator.

[The Sand Reckoner]

37. The point apparently whizzed over your head

Your refusal to respond to any question directly or offer any kind of coherent counter-argument shows me that trying to engage you is a waste of time.

I guess they were right.

[guillaumeb]

38. Did the point travel as high as you value your opinions?

So far, I feel you have revealed your own contempt for believers, while engaging in no serious debate.

You attempted to define believers vs non-believers in very a simplistic framing. When pressed on that, you engage in diversion.

You assert something and then demand that I prove your assertion false. You made an assertion. It is your burden to present proof.

[Goblinmonger]

40. Have they fixed this issue yet?

I think people should talk about the RCC and their pedophilia problems constantly until they fix them. Certainly we would if it were any other organization. Why the pass to the RCC?

[guillaumeb]

6. Reposting from March 22, 2016?

Is this a very slow news day in your area?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

7. Is a year old article too "old" for you?

If so, you must really hate the 2,000 year old stories in the bible.

[guillaumeb]

8. I cannot speak to your motivation, and do not assume any,

but in what seems to be the desire to find negative news to post about believers, is it really necessary to repeat what has been discussed? And re-discussed?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

9. That's odd

I've never seen you call out religious posters who do the same. It's also odd that instead of "discussing" (as you put it) the OP, you attack the date of the article.

[guillaumeb]

11. The discussion was begun on March 22, 2016.

If you see religious posters doing the same thing, please let me know and I would say the same thing.

I recently posted an article about a group of Boston Atheists who were very intolerant of political differences. So much so that they banned one member. Many responses from declared non-theists were outraged that I would dare compare atheistic intolerance to theistic intolerance.

Interesting how flexible strongly held principles can be.

[hrmjustin]

10. This is not really about the story.

If it was there are plenty of recent updates to the clergy scandal that could be posted.

[guillaumeb]

12. We both know this.

But if people have an agenda, many things can be justified in service to that agenda. And I am certainly not accusing any here of having such an agenda, but this story was discussed a year ago. A simple search of the post title would have shown that.

[The Sand Reckoner]

14. The agenda of the catholic church is ongoing

and continues to harm people. So wh you think that continuing to point that out should be discouraged is a mystery.

[hrmjustin]

15. That is not what is happening here.

No one doubts that the OP cares about the issue. The point made was that this story is a year old or so. There is more going on here right now in this room than the issue of the clergy abuse scandal.

[guillaumeb]

17. Well, judging by the recent flood of similar posts,

either this old news IS news to some, or an agenda is on display.

[hrmjustin]

18. This usual pattern emerges when our friend gives up DU up for Lent or is away

for a period of time. The dynamics of this room has changed so much in the past year and some people don't like that.

[guillaumeb]

19. What is interesting to me is the number of non-theists who post constantly here,

while posting almost never in the atheists/agnostics group.

[hrmjustin]

20. Well to be fair several of the posters who regularly posted there are now flagged

or banned. A few others stop posting likely in protest that their friends were flagged, and a few after the primary decided likely not to renew the terms of service. Also real life may have taken some in different directions and no longer post.

[guillaumeb]

21. Interesting.

Does this mean that the religious posters at DU are more tolerant of dissent?

That seems interesting.

[hrmjustin]

22. Honestly I had found most DU atheists very tolerant of religion while criticizing at the same time.

This room which is open to all points of view sometimes is not always a pleasant experience for a believer or for the matter an atheist or agnostic. Sometimes personalities get in the way of discussion and it lead to daily battles that often had little to do with religion. While that has lessoned in the past year it is not gone. I have my share of not behaving like I should.

[guillaumeb]

23. We all slip occasionally.

The vast majority of the exchanges that I have read are polite.

[hrmjustin]

24. They are and I hope that continues.

[bravenak]

29. I'm not sad about that at all

[hrmjustin]

30. Yeah a few of them really went off the deep end after the primary.

[bravenak]

31. You aint lyin

[Heddi]

42. Irony

dictionary definition right there

[EvolveOrConvolve]

43. Ahem...

[The Sand Reckoner]

26. And your point is what?

There may be "more going on" but the clergy abuse scandal has not gone away, nor should it. Do you have a problem with that topic being brought up?

[hrmjustin]

28. Of course not. This topic is brought up regularly here for years.

I think it is a very important topic.

[Lordquinton]

39. Engulfing?

Has the RCC ever not been engulfed in a pedophelia scandal?

[Iggo]

41. What?

The catholic church is more interested in protecting the catholic church than protecting children from being fucked by priests?

Wow! What next?