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stone space

(6,498 posts)
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 06:39 AM Jun 2016

Standing Up to Gundamentalism

Last edited Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:50 AM - Edit history (1)



Just Jane

Sermons, Stories, and Musings by Rev. Jane Page, Unitarian Universalist Minister


Thursday, March 7, 2013

Standing Up to Gundamentalism


This weekend is one of two weekends in March identified by the interfaith group “Heeding God’s Promise” as a weekend to promote Gun Violence Prevention. Other organizations including the Brady Campaign have been encouraging faith groups to get involved for some time. But this big push for something this month probably is in hope that the timing is right for the government to finally do something – pass something – vote on something, -- if enough voices are heard.

So a while back when I saw this request, I checked the box and agreed to dedicate this service to gun violence prevention. It’s not the kind of sermon I especially enjoy doing. I like uplifting sermons, funny sermons, sermons that make our hearts glad! Yet – I am determined that we as Unitarian Universalists must stand up not only to religious fundamentalism – but today to religious gundamentalism.

Gundamentalism is a term coined by Rev. Rachel Smith, founder of the God not Guns Initiative. It’s an offshoot of fundamentalism. Its adherents believe that nothing is as important as the right to own and carry a gun. Or many guns. Their interpretation (and now the court’s interpretation) of the 2nd Amendment to the constitution appears to be more important than any commandment that Moses toted down that mountain or any passage from Christian scriptures. Rev. Smith says that their mantra, “’Guns don’t kill people, people kill people,’ is a magnificent half-truth that attempts to absolve gundamentalism of responsibility for the American epidemic of gun violence. This mantra is chanted over and over until it drowns out the Bilblical mandates of thou shalt not kill; love your neighbor as yourself; forgive seventy times seven; do good to those who hate you.”

Gundamentalism emphasizes FEAR of the other. And their Lord of protection is the powerful NRA – (“praise be unto it”). They really believe that the answer to our gun violence is more gun violence. I thought Rev. Smith had a good response to the call to allow guns on campuses after the Virginia Tech shootings. She said: “Sometimes I wonder if the proponents of guns on campus have ever been on a children’s playground. Just picture a group of children playing. If one child picks up a stick and begins hitting the others, what would you do? Most parents would take the offending child aside, take the stick, and if the child can play without harming others, let the child return to the group. One thing we certainly wouldn’t do is give all the other children sticks (bigger, better sticks perhaps?) with which to defend themselves. If we wouldn’t arm our children with sticks when they are small, why would we arm them with guns when they are older?” Yet the NRA and various state legislatures keep moving in the opposite direction.

Then on December 14, we had the Newtown shootings at Sandy Hook School. Although we’d had many mass shootings before – at schools, public gatherings, malls, theaters, and even houses of worship, this one seemed to capture the hearts and attention of folks even more. Perhaps it was because of the age of most of the victims – cute, precious little first graders. While thousands of urban teens and young adults are victims of gun violence each year, that doesn’t get the headlines or the hearts as easily. Even some very conservative folks were saying, “Enough is enough.” But the powerful religion of gundamentalism led by the NRA will not give up. This may take a massive and continuous outcry to make a difference.

So here I am today --- crying out with others that – Enough is Enough! You’ve heard the statistics before – so I won’t show a lot of slides for each of these, but I do want to give a reminder of some of the BLOODY STATISTICS.

Each year nearly 30,000 Americans are killed by guns. In the last 40 years, more than one million Americans have died as a result of gun violence.

Firearms are the second leading cause of death (after motor vehicle accidents) for young people ages 19 and under in the U.S.

Eight American children and teens age 19 and under are killed by guns every day.

Here’s a comparison statistic that should shock you. “The number of children and teens killed by guns since 1979 is two and a half times greater than the number of U.S. military personnel killed in action in the Vietnam (47,434) or Korean (33,739) Wars, and over 22 times greater than American military personnel killed in the wars in Afghanistan (1,712) and in Iraq (3,518).” Yet, “The United States of America has spent $1.5 trillion on the Iraq and Afghanistan wars so far, purportedly to protect our children and citizens from enemies without, while ignoring the reality that the greatest threats to child safety and wellbeing come from enemies within.” (Marion Wright Edelman Huffington Post blog).

ALSO -- There are far more suicides than there are homicides. And, guns kept in the home for self-protection are 43 times more likely to kill a family member, friend or acquaintance than to kill an intruder, according to a study published in the New England Journal of Medicine. Guns on the street or in the house make us less safe.

And finally, if dollars mean more than lives to some folks ---- Gun violence costs the U.S. at least $1 billion annually.

snip------------------------

http://revjanepage.blogspot.com/2013/03/standing-up-to-gundamentalism.html


44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Standing Up to Gundamentalism (Original Post) stone space Jun 2016 OP
The Church of Gundam EdwardBernays Jun 2016 #1
It's certainly very, very real here in this forum. (nt) stone space Jun 2016 #2
Really? That's a very serious charge to make. trotsky Jun 2016 #18
This poster is fond of making serious charges skepticscott Jun 2016 #20
He likes to call me that for some reason. AtheistCrusader Jun 2016 #21
And you are an atheist. Warren Stupidity Jun 2016 #23
Not too late for breakfast? trotsky Jun 2016 #24
He must have misfired. AtheistCrusader Jun 2016 #25
Aw, can't you make any more stupid yacht snark? rug Jun 2016 #32
Craig Hicks was an atheist gundamentalist open carry activist who used his gun to terrorize others. stone space Jun 2016 #38
Not to mention Jon Ritzheimer. rug Jun 2016 #40
Oh yeah, Ritzheimer raised the Blue Tarp of Freedom, as well. stone space Jun 2016 #41
54% Protestants own guns vs 32% of non religious. Warren Stupidity Jun 2016 #3
Gundamentalists have a very twisted view of morality. stone space Jun 2016 #4
The same stats, more or less, apply to support for gun control. Warren Stupidity Jun 2016 #5
Christian soldiers and atheist crusaders demand respect for their Metalic Gods from all of us. stone space Jun 2016 #7
Mostly it is Christians in this country. Warren Stupidity Jun 2016 #9
Here at DU, Gundamentalist Atheist Crusaders hold their own with Gundamentalist Christian Soldiers. stone space Jun 2016 #10
Yes support for gun control is very high on du. Warren Stupidity Jun 2016 #11
I'm talking about support for Gundamentalism, not opposition. stone space Jun 2016 #12
Ah here you are lying again. AtheistCrusader Jun 2016 #22
Here's some of them. rug Jun 2016 #6
Wow! Atheists with "self-identifying" Guns. stone space Jun 2016 #8
Hey, you know there is a whole gun forum, right? Goblinmonger Jun 2016 #13
Do you have something against Unitarian Universalists? stone space Jun 2016 #14
I've been a member of a UU fellowship Goblinmonger Jun 2016 #15
Why do UU sermons on fundamentalism disturb you? stone space Jun 2016 #16
Yes. That's what I said. Goblinmonger Jun 2016 #26
Which forum do UU sermons go in? stone space Jun 2016 #37
I no longer post in that forum, after, as you said, having my ass handed to me. stone space Jun 2016 #17
Why don't you try to hand his ass to him in here? rug Jun 2016 #31
Are you trying to say edhopper Jun 2016 #19
Neither AlbertCat Jun 2016 #27
She's a woman. Her name is Rev Jane Page. stone space Jun 2016 #39
He wants to talk about how simply horrid guns are. mr blur Jun 2016 #28
Fairly accurate...nt jonno99 Jun 2016 #29
Okay edhopper Jun 2016 #30
Is it okay to compare religion ... Tortmaster Jun 2016 #35
good point edhopper Jun 2016 #36
Your obsession is creepy. stone space Jun 2016 #33
What name did you give yours? bvf Jun 2016 #34
Post removed Post removed Jun 2016 #43
Your continued obsession is creepy in the extreme. Please stop. stone space Jun 2016 #44
Your complacency is understandable, I suppose. But US Ministers don't have the luxury of silence. stone space Jun 2016 #42
 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
20. This poster is fond of making serious charges
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:09 AM
Jun 2016

with nothing to back them up. Don't expect anything better here.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
21. He likes to call me that for some reason.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:39 AM
Jun 2016

I have lots of guns, and also support quite a lot of gun control.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
38. Craig Hicks was an atheist gundamentalist open carry activist who used his gun to terrorize others.
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:28 AM
Jun 2016

Eventually, he murdered 3 of the folks that he had been terrorizing over time with his open carry activism.

The gun he wore on his hip was part of his gundamentalist religious attire. His religion demanded that he wear this idol everywhere he went.

Were you under the impression that atheists are immune from fundamentalism?

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
40. Not to mention Jon Ritzheimer.
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:54 AM
Jun 2016


Marine veteran Jon Ritzheimer has organized what's being called a "freedom of speech" rally, which was being held in front of a mosque Friday night.

Ritzheimer stated his purpose loud and clear before saying a word during an interview with AZCentral.com.

As he sat in front of a camera, Ritzheimer wore a t-shirt that read "F*** Islam." Still, Ritzheimer — who says he's a patriot and an atheist — claimed, "I don't condone any threats against the mosque."

http://www.businessinsider.com/an-anti-islam-rally-held-in-front-of-a-mosque-in-phoenix-urged-participants-to-bring-guns-2015-5

Who unsurprisingly turned up in Oregon.

http://www.dailydot.com/politics/oregon-jon-ritzheimer-armed-militants-anti-muslim-donald-trump/

And after three months is out on bail awaiting federal charges.

http://www.12news.com/news/jon-ritzheimer-granted-pretrial-release/89144227

Had to give up his guns as a condition of bail, though.
 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
41. Oh yeah, Ritzheimer raised the Blue Tarp of Freedom, as well.
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:01 AM
Jun 2016

Last edited Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:53 AM - Edit history (1)

I'm surprised that they let him out on bail. I hadn't heard that.

But at least they had enough sense to take away his guns this time.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
3. 54% Protestants own guns vs 32% of non religious.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 07:17 AM
Jun 2016

Gods and guns! Since Constantine the christian god has been a war god.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
4. Gundamentalists have a very twisted view of morality.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 07:39 AM
Jun 2016

Whether religious or atheist.

Gundamentalism is much more than simply owning a gun.









 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
5. The same stats, more or less, apply to support for gun control.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 07:43 AM
Jun 2016

In particular religious white Protestants. Gods and guns go hand in hand. Onward Christian soldiers!

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
7. Christian soldiers and atheist crusaders demand respect for their Metalic Gods from all of us.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 07:51 AM
Jun 2016
Gods and guns go hand in hand. Onward Christian soldiers!


Even the mere act of running away from their Gods of Metal is deemed an act of disrespect that must be punished.

Those who run from their Metallic Gods in fear are labeled as "thieves", in a gundamentalist misreading of both the law and of the 7th Commandment.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
9. Mostly it is Christians in this country.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 08:12 AM
Jun 2016

Atheists are not big gun owners and are big gun control supporters.

It is not clear how adultery factors in to gun control, but your God was unclear about which of his alleged commandments were in the supposed 10 anyway. Or is it 7? Anyway there are at least eight different interpretations of the rules. You likely meant theft even though adultery is the more common occupant of 7. Good thing they were written in stoned!

Goats own zero guns.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
11. Yes support for gun control is very high on du.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 08:32 AM
Jun 2016

Oh wait, that wasn't your point, was it?

I do need to point out that weaponized goats are not a serious problem, yet.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
12. I'm talking about support for Gundamentalism, not opposition.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 08:34 AM
Jun 2016
Yes support for gun control is very high on du.

Oh wait, that wasn't your point, was it?


If the Gundamentalist Atheist Crusaders and the Gundamentalist Christian Soldiers here on DU and elsewhere had their way, we'd all be arrested whenever we dared to run away from their Metallic Gods in fear, and whenever we dial 911.



 

rug

(82,333 posts)
6. Here's some of them.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 07:51 AM
Jun 2016
For those that believe that religions are like looking down the barrel of a shotgun, it's something you just don't want to do because it's just going to blow up in your face.

https://www.facebook.com/Atheists-with-Guns-243614255765805/
 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
8. Wow! Atheists with "self-identifying" Guns.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 08:08 AM
Jun 2016

Last edited Fri Jun 3, 2016, 09:56 AM - Edit history (1)

To paraphrase Mitt Romney, "Guns are people too, my friend".




Atheists with Guns added a new photo.

April 28




That's the latest post there. April 28 is pretty recent. I wonder what spurred this latest meme?









 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
14. Do you have something against Unitarian Universalists?
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 09:12 AM
Jun 2016

Or did you fail to actually read Reverend Page's sermon in the OP?

It’s not the kind of sermon I especially enjoy doing. I like uplifting sermons, funny sermons, sermons that make our hearts glad! Yet – I am determined that we as Unitarian Universalists must stand up not only to religious fundamentalism – but today to religious gundamentalism.

Gundamentalism is a term coined by Rev. Rachel Smith, founder of the God not Guns Initiative. It’s an offshoot of fundamentalism. Its adherents believe that nothing is as important as the right to own and carry a gun. Or many guns. Their interpretation (and now the court’s interpretation) of the 2nd Amendment to the constitution appears to be more important than any commandment that Moses toted down that mountain or any passage from Christian scriptures. Rev. Smith says that their mantra, “’Guns don’t kill people, people kill people,’ is a magnificent half-truth that attempts to absolve gundamentalism of responsibility for the American epidemic of gun violence. This mantra is chanted over and over until it drowns out the Bilblical mandates of thou shalt not kill; love your neighbor as yourself; forgive seventy times seven; do good to those who hate you.”


Some folks don't like UU's because of their opposition to fundamentalism.

Are folks not allowed to criticize fundamentalism here in the religion forum?

Or are some forms of fundamentalism deemed off-limits to criticism?



 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
15. I've been a member of a UU fellowship
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 09:21 AM
Jun 2016

My children are still UU's. So....no, I don't have anything against them.

What I don't like is the constant inclusion of guns in the religion forum. There is a different basement for the gun bullshit. Go put it there. I know you get your ass handed to you there and that is where you get most of your hides for your forced vacations, but that is no reason to bring your gun nonsense here.

Quit trying to make guns a religion. It's silly.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
37. Which forum do UU sermons go in?
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:02 AM
Jun 2016

Last edited Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:00 AM - Edit history (1)

Feel free to crosspost Rev. Jane Page's sermon on gundamentalism to the A&A group.

Since many UU's are atheists, it would fit in that forum, as well.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
17. I no longer post in that forum, after, as you said, having my ass handed to me.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 09:39 AM
Jun 2016
Go put it there. I know you get your ass handed to you there


I'm not interested in posting in a forum that hands my ass to me with posts like these. Not sure why you are trying to get me to post there again after having my ass handed to me like this.

In fact, I'm not even sure why you are bringing this up in the Religion Forum.

Do you support the way that Gundamentalists here on DU hand peoples asses to them in that forum? Why cheer them on in this forum, when you can just post your support for their ass-handing over there, instead of here?

How did my having my ass handed to me in that forum even become an issue here in the Religion Forum?

Why are you bringing it up here?

I'm including the links so you can register your support for their Gundamentalist ass-handing over there instead of here in the Religion Forum.


One really has to wonder what part(s) of Stone Space's normal behavior suggest to normal people that he needs to be shot?

Why does he not correct that bad behavior that even he recognizes as bad?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=193067



Wow. He takes reading comprehension problems to a new level.

My point was that Stone Space says Stone Space needs to be shot. I was wondering why he would say that.

The reading comprehension of the three jurors is also in question.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=193091




 

rug

(82,333 posts)
31. Why don't you try to hand his ass to him in here?
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 06:03 PM
Jun 2016

As warren tries, ineptly, to point out, there is a religious component to gun violence and gun control.

So, try to hand his ass to him. It will be enlightening to see which side you end up on.

edhopper

(33,479 posts)
19. Are you trying to say
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 10:36 AM
Jun 2016

guns are treated like a religion by some in this country? (I would agree, but think it is a minority)

Or are you looking at how religious believers and nonbelievers view guns?

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
39. She's a woman. Her name is Rev Jane Page.
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:32 AM
Jun 2016
As usual, nobody knows what the hell he's talking about.




I included her name and a photograph in the OP, as well.



Rev. Jane Page, Unitarian Universalist Minister



 

mr blur

(7,753 posts)
28. He wants to talk about how simply horrid guns are.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 03:14 PM
Jun 2016

I quite agree but we don't see them over here so I don't feel the need to rave about them.

Sure, there's a place on DU to talk about guns but the gun-lovers in the Gun forum don't enjoy hearing about how awful he thinks they are, so they don't put up with it.
He figures that, hey, people love their guns! Almost like they love...Gawd! So guns are like...wait...wait for it...a religion!
And this is the Religion group so...keep up with me here...nearly there......he can talk about guns as a gun-hater and talk about religion as a Faitheist! Genius!

If you object to your religion being equated with weapons of mass destruction well, why are you so sensitive? Don't you understand the subtle truths he's introducing you to? Well, don't blame him, he's just a truth seeker in love with the mathematical perfection of the Universe.

If you object to religion, why, you're insulting his wife. Who is religious, so he knows how wonderful believers are. And if you criticise Faith, why you're attacking his wife. I imagine that her religion is OK because she believes it and it probably doesn't involve many guns.

You must know how it goes, round and round. . You can't laugh at him because he has no sense of humour. Try it and watch how he pretends to not know what you're talking about and sinks into victimhood (why are you saying "Bang" to me?) ("Locked and loaded"...duh, what does that mean?). Rinse and repeat. Ad nauseam.

edhopper

(33,479 posts)
30. Okay
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 04:23 PM
Jun 2016

Just wondering, but I really don't care.

I have a very low tolerance for comparing things to religion than are not similar except in a very broad sense.

Tortmaster

(382 posts)
35. Is it okay to compare religion ...
Sat Jun 4, 2016, 04:16 PM
Jun 2016

... to thirty-year fixed-rate mortgages? You see, with both, you make periodic payments to secure a freehold interest in something, and if you fall behind in your payments, an authority figure comes down on you; and, finally, when you die, you find out that you own nothing at all?

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
33. Your obsession is creepy.
Sat Jun 4, 2016, 01:14 PM
Jun 2016

If you object to religion, why, you're insulting his wife. Who is religious, so he knows how wonderful believers are. And if you criticise Faith, why you're attacking his wife. I imagine that her religion is OK because she believes it and it probably doesn't involve many guns.


Response to stone space (Reply #33)

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
44. Your continued obsession is creepy in the extreme. Please stop.
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 02:06 PM
Jun 2016
He's managed to imply that I'm obsessed with his wife and that my supposed obsession is "creepy".


 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
42. Your complacency is understandable, I suppose. But US Ministers don't have the luxury of silence.
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:37 AM
Jun 2016

Last edited Sun Jun 5, 2016, 03:04 PM - Edit history (2)

He wants to talk about how simply horrid guns are.

I quite agree but we don't see them over here so I don't feel the need to rave about them.


mr blur

Profile information

Gender: Male
Hometown: Chichester
Home country: U.K.


Sometimes, when it comes to religion, it's not all about you and your privilege.

In fact, many atheists would disagree with your self-centered notion that if one is privileged in some way, nobody else matters, and silence is an acceptable response.

So, while I will congratulate you on your privilege, I will not allow you to use that privilege to enforce religious silence on serious issues of religious significance here in this country.

Rev. Jane Page's sermon on gundamentalism deserves to be heard, even if you feel that her sermon isn't needed where you live.

America Marked Memorial Day Weekend with a Deluge of Mass Shootings

Over the past seven days, America witnessed nine mass shootings that left one dead and 43 wounded. These attacks bring the US mass shooting body count so far in 2016 to 112 dead and 443 injured. Meanwhile, Europe suffered zero mass shootings last week, holding the continent's body count in such attacks this year steady at 20 dead and 66 injured.

snip----------------

http://www.vice.com/read/america-marked-memorial-day-weekend-with-a-deluge-of-mass-shootings

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027882563


And, incidentally, as I explained to another poster above, Rev Jane Page is a woman.







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