About 50% Muslims support Sharia, both in 'Muslim' countries and the West

[Yorktown]

Last edited Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:12 PM - Edit history (2)

I have made that claim and different people asked me for the sources.
(50% is obviously a rough gage, nearer to 2/3rds in Muslim countries, nearer to 1/3rd in the West)
So, here is the best info I gathered on the subject in this one thread. I welcome any better data.


Muslim-majority countries
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

Support for Sharia is well over 50% in Asia (Indian subcontinent and Malaysia/Indonesia), the Middle East ('Arab' countries, Iran not polled) and Africa (Maghreb and Sub-Saharan Africa)
It is below 50% in the mostly ex-Communist region roughly between Turkey and Russia (incl. Kemal's Turkey)




UK: 40% Muslims support Sharia (2006)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html
http://www.icmunlimited.com/pdfs/2006_february_sunday_telegraph_muslims_poll.pdf

The question asked being: "How supportive, if at all, would you be of the official introduction of Shari'ah Law into British law for Muslims in Britain?"
Very supportive - 21%
Fairly supportive - 19%"


US: 33% Muslims support Sharia (2015)
https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/2015/06/23/nationwide-poll-of-us-muslims-shows-thousands-support-shariah-jihad/

The Center for Security Policy is Conservative, but the whole study report is presented
Question #8
"If Sharia conflicts with the US Constitution and the Bill of Rigts, which law should be considered supreme?"
The US Constitution - 43%
Sharia - 33%
dk+na - 23%"


Germany: 34 to 45% support for Sharia (2007) (academic study for Ministry of Interior)
http://www.bmi.bund.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/139732/publicationFile/14975/Muslime%20in%20Deutschland.pdf

Long study, no specific question on Sharia, some pointers:
45% of German Muslims agree "only Islam is able to solve the problems of our time" (p. 120, Table 12)
34 % of German Muslims agree violence is justified to disseminate Islam. (p. 319, Table 79)
23% young German Muslims are strongly antisemitic/anti-Christian (p.496.3rd paragraph)


France: 17% to 54% support for Sharia (2008) (French poll)
http://www.csa.eu/multimedia/data/sondages/data2008/opi20080730-islam-et-citoyennete.htm

Question #2
"Islamic Law (Sharia) should be applied"
- fully, independently of the country of abode: 17%
- partly, adapted to the rules of the country of abode: 37%
- not at all in 'non-Muslim' countries: 38%

[niyad]

1. would be interesting to see how many fundies in this country support the same.

[Yorktown]

2. I abhor all fundamentalists of all stripes

But at least Xian, Hindu and Jewish fundamentalists have given up on stoning adulterers and apostates.

[niyad]

12. sorry, but when I read some of the xian reichwingnugjobs, they talk about killing women who

have had abortions, and killing women (but ONLY women) who commit adultery, along with obstreperous teens. there are just as many whacks in the xian crowd as any other fundies one can name.

[Yorktown]

13. Not the same proportions

Not half Xians want to stone adulterers and gays.
Half Muslims do. Large difference in numbers.

[niyad]

14. you know, I am absolutely SICK UNTO DEATH of hearing "well, it isn't as bad over here, our whack

jobs aren't as bad, not as many, blah, blah, blah". try reading heinlein's "future histories" as just ONE example of where that kind of narrow, tunnel-vision thinking leads.

the fact remains, there is NO difference between the xian fundies and any other group (crusades, inquisition, witch burnings, genocide of indigenous peoples, magdalene laundries ring a bell?) and please don't tell me it is all in the past--westboro baptist is front and center and current, as is the pastor who wrote the "kill the gays" laws in uganda.

[Yorktown]

15. Look, one must distinguish between theory and practice

All Abrahamic religions have theoretical grounds to turn violent.
All Abrahamic religions have their quota of violent fundamentalists.

However, as things stand now, the percentage of people who believe their religion commands them to do violence is far greater in Islam.

In Europe, Christianity is just a happy slappy hippie movement with saints thrown in.
Even in the US where Christianity is more primitive and radical, you would be hard pressed to find even 1% of Christian willing to stone adulterers to death.

See the Pew graph, about 50% Muslims believe stoning is mandatory (20 to 80%)

In theory, Xianity, Islam and Judaism have an equal potential for violence.
In hearts and minds of the believers, Islam is currently the most violent of the three.

[niyad]

16. ALL the patriarchal religions are violent, period. you can keep trying to deny the reality of our

own fundies, but many of us know them for what they are. and the PRACTICE of the xians leaves them nothing to feel superior about.

[Yorktown]

17. Far from me the intention to defend Xianity

But there is a far greater of Muslims than Christians who believe their faith mandates violence such as stonings.

As for the practice, there are no conclusive studies showing any religion induces a higher morality or better behavior than unbelievers.
Religion is useless.

But then again, atheists like me are not required to go stoning gays or adulterers. While today's Islam recommends it (if Islam doesn't, the imams are worse than useless because heir flocks have weird ideas about what to do when they have an adulterer and sharp stones).
Religion is not great.

[darkangel218]

3. Hmm .. I don't know how accurate those numbers are.

Especially the one coming from a conservative link. I highly doubt it 33% of American Muslim population supports Sharia Law.

[Yorktown]

8. Well, that's one of my two reasons for posting this summary

I mentioned that I would welcome any other data.
But I must stress that there is a degree of convergence between the European and US studies.

Muslim immigration in the West is relatively recent, one to two generation sin the US, and social sciences teach us it takes bout six generations for deeply held opinions to be radically altered.

It should come as no surprise the tenets of Islam as taught in 'Muslim' countries are reflected in the relatively recent immigration from these countries.

[darkangel218]

10. Thats true, it takes a while for people to adjust/integrate into a new society, with new laws.

And new norms.

[840high]

4. ty

[Yorktown]

7. yw

[struggle4progress]

5. At least this doesn't come with videos from Mark Dice

like your last thread on the subject

But it still suffers from your view that different people must mean the same thing when they use the same words, which in my opinion is a view tending towards pointless semantic arguments

[Yorktown]

6. One can only use the tools that exist. Complete relativism leads nowhere.

Yes, different people might assign different meanings to words.

But one can't analyse mass movements without using words as they are generally accepted.

Imperfect as they are, polls are a sounder basis for discussion than vague opinions.

[darkangel218]

9. The first video on that link is actually hilarious!

I made me really LOL how ignorant the people interviewed were

(Second I won't watch, I can't stomach hannity)

[Yorktown]

11. yet, it's the second video that has more substance

Agree, the first video is very funny, but it's just a silly trick.

In the second video, you actually have raw footage of American Muslims pinnig for Sharia.

That's far more worrisome.

[Bradical79]

18. Please don't use right wing extremists as sources

Saying the Center for Security Policy is conservative is an understatement. Even conservative groups consider their president a bigoted extremist.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Security_Policy
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/frank-gaffney-jr
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/category/organizations/center-for-security-policy

I wasn't convinced on your reasoning from the last thread you posted this in so that's the last I'll say on the matter.

[Yorktown]

19. Why do you think things should be very different in the US vs the UK, France and Germany?

Like I said in the OP, I gave the data I had and welcome any other data.

Now, if you want to invalidate the data about the US on the basis of the source,
it's difficult for at least three reasons:

• (1): the data hasn't been assembled by the Center for Security Policy. It is the result of a poll by a polling company. Unless you know this particular polling company is unethical, I see no reason to reject their findings.

• (2): the results for the US are consistent with the result in other secular western democracies. Is there any reason why Muslims in the US should abandon the values taught in their countries of origin way faster than in Germany or the UK?

• (3): Most sources mention that most mosques in the US are influenced by or aligned with the Muslim Brotherhood. From wiki: The Brotherhood's stated goal is to instill the Qur'an and Sunnah as the "sole reference point for ... ordering the life of the Muslim family, individual, community ... and state." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood
It follows it is highly unlikely US mosques preachings will oppose the Sharia. Which in turn gives credence to the poll findings.

[Yorktown]

20. Double checked: found Pew 2007 confirmation

The numbers are actually more worrisome than the CSP numbers.

P 31: Do You Think of Yourself First as an American or First as a Muslim?

American first: 28%
Muslim first: 47%
Both: 18%
dk: 7%

http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf

[AtheistCrusader]

21. I'm not sure I consider that a problem.

Honestly, Nationalism is a pretty dangerous trend these days.

[Yorktown]

22. One can identify to America as a set of values (Constitution) over nationalism

I grant you nationalism is as dangerous as religion, though.

It's fascinating how difficult it is to gage why WWI started, if not for a chain reaction of small nationalist miscalculations. Almost as enigmatic as to why GW's invasion of Iraq was decided.