'I can no longer condemn or hate a brother for whom I pray, no matter how much trouble he causes me'

[rug]

― Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Life Together: The Classic Exploration of Faith in Community

Forrtunately, most of them would be offended if I prayed for them.

[hrmjustin]

1. I offer prayers for those i disagree with all the time.

[safeinOhio]

2. Religious or not

forgiveness helps the forgiver more than the forgiven..
Sometimes it takes longer than other times. Same with hate.

[Yorktown]

3. I see many problems in that Bonhoeffer quote

- first, in the fact of praying. An action with no proven effect. Thinking, reflecting would be positive actions.
- hate is a useless emotion. To get rid of it is good. But to have felt it in the first place was useless.
- not to condemn is wrong. Bonhoeffer was right to condemn Nazism. Prayers should not have stopped that.

[rug]

4. Of course you do.

[Yorktown]

5. And you don't?

[rug]

6. I don't.

[Yorktown]

7. So not condemning Nazis is OK?

[rug]

8. My word, how did I miss that in the quote?

[Yorktown]

9. Your religion-is-rose tainted glasses, maybe?

[rug]

12. Maybe yours need to be cleaned.

[Yorktown]

14. To better see god?

[rug]

15. To better see words.

Won't do a thing for comprehending them.

[Yorktown]

16. I am sure you think you comprehend

Using your comprehension powers, could you define prayer?

[rug]

17. Start a thread.

[Yorktown]

18. Sure

[Donald Ian Rankin]

10. What about if he causes trouble for other people?

Being willing to forgive those who harm you is fine, if you choose to do it.

But it's not so admirable to refuse to condemn people who are harming other people, if their victims are asking you to condemn them.


Bonhoeffer clearly understood this, given his involvement in resistance to Nazism. But it's not clear from that quote.

[rug]

11. Forgiveness is neither acquiescence or condonation.

[nil desperandum]

13. Indeed

This quote was more my favorite from Bonhoeffer...

It is the nature, and the advantage, of strong people that they can bring out the crucial questions and form a clear opinion about them. The weak always have to decide between alternatives that are not their own.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer