How I Became An Atheist

[rug]

June 4, 2015
Jack Vance at 5:22 AM

Of all the questions I receive here by email, the most common one might be some version of "How did you become an atheist?" The person asking this question almost always identifies himself or herself as a Christian, and the question is often delivered in an angry tone or with a genuine sense of confusion. It is as if the questioner truly does not understand how anyone could possibly be an atheist.

My guess is that much of this confusion has to do with what the particular Christian has been told about atheism by those determined to portray atheists in the most negative way possible. Many Christians continue to insist that atheism is a conscious rejection of their particular god. The obvious problem with this is that almost no atheists choose to be atheists (see I Didn't Choose To Be An Atheist by Southern Skeptic). I certainly never chose to be an atheist. It is difficult to imagine why anyone living in the U.S. today would voluntarily choose to be an atheist. Why put yourself through all the hate if you don't have to?

I have written many posts about my personal journey to atheism, but I still find it difficult to summarize concisely. I think this is because I went through at least two separate and fairly lengthy processes to get there:

1.Leaving my Christian faith behind and recognizing that I no longer believed in gods
2.Learning about atheism and coming to terms with the fact that I was an atheist
Losing My Faith

The process of losing my faith and realizing that I no longer believed in gods took 2-3 years from beginning to end and was rather unpleasant. It was not anything I did intentionally; it was something that happened to me. I think this is important because it is not like I woke up one morning and decided that I'd walk away from my faith and become an atheist. Nothing about the process of losing my faith seemed voluntary. Atheism was not a choice I made; it was something I gradually came to realize about myself. It was also something I actively resisted as long as I could.

http://www.atheistrev.com/2015/06/how-i-became-atheist.html#ixzz3c8socyYc

[Yorktown]

1. People are born atheists. Then comes religious indoctrination.

Not all that is taught is good.

[rug]

2. Or, as in China, atheist indoctrination.

[Yorktown]

4. China on course to become 'world's most Christian nation' within 15 years

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/China/10776023/China-on-course-to-become-worlds-most-Christian-nation-within-15-years.html

[rug]

5. With cheesy propaganda like that, I'm surprised they didn't become Mormons decades ago.

BTW, you linked to a rightwing publication.

[Yorktown]

6. The Chinese are stylish, Mormon underwear was a big repellent.

[AtheistCrusader]

11. I'm not Chinese. I've always been an atheist. My parents were Christians.

My society/culture marinates in Christianity. My nation wraps itself in Christianity.

The 'ooga booga China atheists' meme is stale. Plenty of examples right here at home. I was born without belief in God. Everyone is. God is an idea that must be transmitted, hence the signal to noise ratio in cultures dominated by different and mutually exclusive religions.

No transmission of advanced specific God ideas, you MAY see 'natural' type gods or 'force' type gods invented since humans are statistically predisposed to faith, but you won't find Allah or whatever, springing up whole in an unaware society, hence isolated tribes to this day unaware of dominant world religions.

[rug]

15. You don't think there's indoctrination in China?

If it's stale, it's because it's been going on for 70 years.

So, what kind of Christians were your parents?

[AtheistCrusader]

18. My father was a catholic, and my mother was a Protestant.

I say 'was' because moms a nominal agnostic now, and dads a pile of ash.

Communism has, in all instances I am aware of, attempted to displace faith. China's model of communism has evolved considerably, so the soviet analog of a state theocracy replacing God with The Party (not wanting competition) mapped better than the current Chinese model, but that really wasn't even my point.

Pointing your finger at China when people give you examples in vastly different cultures is what has gotten old.

If China indoctrinates people into atheism, that doesn't have any relevance to the original point. It just means their task is easy, and all they have to do is squash any new examples of religious faith. 'Ooga booga China' was a total non sequitur.

[cleanhippie]

19. "'Ooga booga China' was a total non sequitur." He likely feels it's better than STALIN!!11!!!!

[rug]

25. Well, all you have to do is ask.

Might save you exclamation points next time.

[rug]

23. The "religious indoctrination" theme is as state and as valid or invalid as Cihina.

Not to mention North Korea.

[AtheistCrusader]

29. Could you make a little sense please, that would be awesome.

[Major Nikon]

12. You mean the "indoctrination" the dude in your avatar promoted?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_of_the_people

Kinda hard to indoctrinate someone with something that doesn't have a doctrine, no?

[rug]

16. If you think that's indoctrination, read what he meant by the dictatorship of the proletariat.

The fact is, indoctrination takes place in every form of human society and is essentially neutral. What matters is the doctrine inculcated.

[Major Nikon]

20. It's considered good form to answer yes or no rather than duck.

The question is whether you think it's indoctrination.

There is no doctrine for atheism. It's the rejection of doctrine.

[rug]

24. No, it's silent on doctrine.

It's simply nonbelief.

[Major Nikon]

31. You're still no closer to explaining how someone can be indoctrinated in a non-doctrine

[rug]

34. Antitheism is a doctrine.

Would you like examples?

[Major Nikon]

36. Sure. This should be good.

[rug]

38. How many wold you like.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Antitheism

http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismatheiststheism/a/AntiTheism.htm

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/frankschaeffer/2014/11/lets-stop-calling-new-atheism-atheism-and-start-calling-it-what-it-is-anti-theism/

http://www.reddit.com/r/antitheism

https://richarddawkins.net/2014/03/anti-theism-reason-or-bigotry/

Tell me there's no ideology there.

If you want to learn the mechanics of its catechesis, start here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218203240

[Major Nikon]

40. antitheism /= atheism

Pretty much all your links explain this to varying degrees of clarity.

That was pretty easy. What else you got?

[rug]

41. Atheism is rarely on display. What is on display is antitheism.

Show me I'm wrong.

There is really nothing to say about atheism beyond nonbelief.

Meanwhile . . . . .

http://atheistindoctrination.blogspot.com/

[Major Nikon]

42. Two different things

If you think they are the same and use them interchangeably you are wrong.

One can't be "indoctrinated" with something that has no doctrine. It's just not that complicated.

What you fallaciously call "atheist indoctrination" is actually the doctrine of antitheism your avatar authored and promoted.

There is really nothing to say about atheism beyond nonbelief.

Then why do you insist on saying otherwise?

Meanwhile . . . . .

http://atheistindoctrination.blogspot.com/

Wow! Your google found some obscure rambling on a personal blog. Impressive.

I just did a search on "The moon is made of green cheese" and got over 40,000 results. I guess I need to rethink that one as well.

[rug]

43. I just demonstrated that.

I also said what is primarily on display is antitheism.

As to atheists who are not antitheists, I'm sure they never indoctrinate their children into nonbelief and the reasons for nonbelief. Whenever the topic of belief arises, the little ones are left to their own paths, right?

What you fail to realize is that the basis for nonbelief itself contains some basic tenets. Asserting all that exists must be evidenced, followed by, "I leave it to you to determine if there is a god", is itself inculcating a value.

Do you agree or disagree that antitheists indoctrinate, or attempt it?

[Major Nikon]

45. This is what you demonstrated

Or, as in China, atheist indoctrination.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218203152#post2

This is what I took exception. Now you are talking about something else.

As to atheists who are not antitheists, I'm sure they never indoctrinate their children into nonbelief and the reasons for nonbelief. Whenever the topic of belief arises, the little ones are left to their own paths, right?

My kids are now grown and I never told them one way or another what to believe or reject. If they would have ever asked (and they didn't), I would have told them the same thing my dad told me, which was to figure it out yourself.

What you fail to realize is that the basis for nonbelief itself contains some basic tenets. Asserting all that exists must be evidenced, followed by, "I leave it to you to determine if there is a god", is itself inculcating a value.

Complete and utter nonsense. Rejecting an assertion is not an assertion. You're simply repeating the tired and failed line of reasoning which desperately and fallaciously tries to shift the burden on the skeptic to disprove something that never was proven to begin with. Atheism is not a belief system and requires no tenets. It's the rejection of tenets.

Do you agree or disagree that antitheists indoctrinate, or attempt it?

tap, Tap, TAP...is this thing on?

What you fallaciously call "atheist indoctrination" is actually the doctrine of antitheism your avatar authored and promoted.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218203152#post42

[rug]

46. China indoctrinates both atheism and antitheism.

Start with dialectical materialism and follow it to an official state policy of antitheism.

Except all you want, they are related.

Anecdotes aside, do you really think children do not pick up clues as to what their parents consider right or wrong, true or false?

You missed the next point entirely. No wonder you call it nonsense. If an assertion is rejected it's for a reason. Therein lies the lesson of how one views the world. If you go about structuring your life on accepting only observable evidence you are inherently adopting the view of materialism, which is itself an ideology, one that is easily passed on or, if you prefer, indoctrinated into the next generation.

Atheism is not a belief system and requires no tenets. It's the rejection of tenets.

If you do not have a reason, a premise, a datum, to reject the assertion, it's an irrational act.

And yes, this thing is on. I'll repeat: Do you agree or disagree that antitheists indoctrinate, or attempt it?

[Major Nikon]

48. One of those things is true

The other is impossible.

[xfundy]

3. "...not a choice I made; it was something I gradually came to realize about myself"

Kind of like realizing you're gay. It just is. No choice involved. Although atheists can become xians. As can gays.

[rug]

7. I respect your input on this essay.

[Major Nikon]

13. More like realizing you're asexual

Except there is no innate proclivity to religion or lack thereof.

Atheism is the default. Everything else is a choice.

[rock]

8. How I Became An Atheist

I gave up believing in god... Oh yeah, that was all.

[immoderate]

9. Reasonable observations.

Belief does reside on a level below consciousness. I'm certain it's influenced by brain structure, but is nevertheless elastic.

I got exposure, but I did not receive intense indoctrination as a child, never could detect an intercessory deity, settled into atheism as the best explanation of the evidence available to me. Not unlike the article cited.

--imm

[rug]

10. There are lots of routes but I think his, and yours, is a common one.

[Lordquinton]

14. Really? When did you becone an atheist?

This is a stunning turn of events.

[rug]

17. Next time I'll boldface the byline.

June 4, 2015
Jack Vance at 5:22 AM

If you need further assistance, let me know.

[Fumesucker]

21. There is a function on DU for indicating something is quoted text ...

The "excerpt" button makes text look like this.

[rug]

26. Rendered superfluous by the byline.

[Fumesucker]

30. Not really, it makes seperating poster comments from quoted text much more clear

I use it because I've run into problems with people misunderstanding before and it's not particularly onerous.

[rug]

37. Frankly, this is the first time, over many posts, I've seen someone confuse a bylined article

with the member who posted it.

But then, it's not uncommon in here to be more concerned about the poster than the post.

[Lordquinton]

27. So you're just continuing to rob atheists of their voice

Gotcha.

Btw, learn the site formatting, bmus showed you a basic one, helps reduce the confusion caused by your posts.

[rug]

28. Why yes, posting an excerpt from The Atheist Revolution is robbing atheists of their voice.

The solution to your confusion is far more involved than formatting.

[Lordquinton]

32. You mean daily posts

You find a lot of posts by atheists that happen to back positions you support.

What was your inspiration to post this one?

Why are you obsessed with atheists?

Why do you always insult people when you respond?

[rug]

33. Why are you obseesed with what I post?

Why do you find the diversity of atheists' opinions uncomfortable?

Why do you couch your posts in insult before a reply is even posted?

[Lordquinton]

35. Weren't you just lecturing someone on not responding to questions?

I don't lead with insults. Your posts tend to be nothing but.


Now, you gonna answer questions? Or just play pigeon?

[rug]

39. Your posting history demonstrates otherwise.

And I don't play pigeon or with pigeons. (You may note what I'm responding to.)

[Lordquinton]

44. So, dodging questions still?

Shoulda known better. And also please point out where i lead with insults, and note that calling out problematic behavious is not an insult.

[rug]

47. No, no insults in there at all.

And you wonder why your comments are dismissed.

[nil desperandum]

22. 2-3 years

seems about right...

about 16-19 to be sure i no longer believed what I thought i had believed earlier...and put "no pref" in the religion slot on my dog tags when i joined the Army in the 70s...

that would prove to be an entertaining decision, if a bit of a nuisance originally.