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Thu Feb 19, 2015, 06:43 PM

 

Hi. I'm a militant atheist. Do you fear me?



Some folks on DU find militant atheists threatening:

because militant atheists want to kill believers

And burn churches, that is not ok. Anyone calling themselves a militant atheist is in the same groupnas hicks and does not belong on this site.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=182630

Do you fear me?



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Arrow 174 replies Author Time Post
Reply Hi. I'm a militant atheist. Do you fear me? (Original post)
stone space Feb 2015 OP
Warren Stupidity Feb 2015 #1
trotsky Feb 2015 #4
edhopper Feb 2015 #5
stone space Feb 2015 #148
edhopper Feb 2015 #150
stone space Feb 2015 #151
edhopper Feb 2015 #152
stone space Feb 2015 #153
edhopper Feb 2015 #154
stone space Feb 2015 #155
edhopper Feb 2015 #156
stone space Feb 2015 #157
okasha Feb 2015 #167
skepticscott Feb 2015 #2
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2015 #3
stone space Feb 2015 #6
Fumesucker Feb 2015 #7
stone space Feb 2015 #9
Goblinmonger Feb 2015 #12
stone space Feb 2015 #42
Fumesucker Feb 2015 #16
stone space Feb 2015 #20
2banon Feb 2015 #59
okasha Feb 2015 #22
stone space Feb 2015 #23
skepticscott Feb 2015 #74
AlbertCat Feb 2015 #81
Rainforestgoddess Feb 2015 #8
stone space Feb 2015 #10
Lordquinton Feb 2015 #11
stone space Feb 2015 #15
Lordquinton Feb 2015 #27
stone space Feb 2015 #29
Warren Stupidity Feb 2015 #31
stone space Feb 2015 #32
Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #72
trotsky Feb 2015 #83
EvolveOrConvolve Feb 2015 #126
Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #138
edhopper Feb 2015 #33
Goblinmonger Feb 2015 #35
stone space Feb 2015 #37
Goblinmonger Feb 2015 #39
stone space Feb 2015 #41
stone space Feb 2015 #43
Goblinmonger Feb 2015 #46
stone space Feb 2015 #49
Goblinmonger Feb 2015 #51
stone space Feb 2015 #54
Goblinmonger Feb 2015 #56
stone space Feb 2015 #47
trotsky Feb 2015 #50
stone space Feb 2015 #52
Goblinmonger Feb 2015 #57
stone space Feb 2015 #65
Lordquinton Feb 2015 #159
Goblinmonger Feb 2015 #14
stone space Feb 2015 #21
Maedhros Feb 2015 #26
stone space Feb 2015 #30
Goblinmonger Feb 2015 #36
stone space Feb 2015 #40
Goblinmonger Feb 2015 #44
stone space Feb 2015 #45
edhopper Feb 2015 #48
Rainforestgoddess Feb 2015 #17
stone space Feb 2015 #18
Rainforestgoddess Feb 2015 #19
stone space Feb 2015 #24
Rainforestgoddess Feb 2015 #25
stone space Feb 2015 #34
Rainforestgoddess Feb 2015 #58
chervilant Feb 2015 #158
Rainforestgoddess Feb 2015 #163
chervilant Feb 2015 #164
Rainforestgoddess Feb 2015 #165
Lordquinton Feb 2015 #13
bvf Feb 2015 #28
stone space Feb 2015 #38
bvf Feb 2015 #55
Rainforestgoddess Feb 2015 #61
Goblinmonger Feb 2015 #62
Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #64
stone space Feb 2015 #67
Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #73
mr blur Feb 2015 #76
stone space Feb 2015 #77
Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #91
Rainforestgoddess Feb 2015 #104
stone space Feb 2015 #66
Rainforestgoddess Feb 2015 #69
stone space Feb 2015 #70
Rainforestgoddess Feb 2015 #71
Warren Stupidity Feb 2015 #78
trotsky Feb 2015 #68
Ed Suspicious Feb 2015 #53
2banon Feb 2015 #60
stone space Feb 2015 #63
your bunny wrote Feb 2015 #75
stone space Feb 2015 #82
AlbertCat Feb 2015 #85
TexasTowelie Feb 2015 #162
Maedhros Feb 2015 #79
stone space Feb 2015 #80
Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #109
PassingFair Feb 2015 #172
stone space Feb 2015 #173
PassingFair Feb 2015 #174
hrmjustin Feb 2015 #84
cbayer Feb 2015 #88
hrmjustin Feb 2015 #94
cbayer Feb 2015 #105
hrmjustin Feb 2015 #106
cbayer Feb 2015 #107
hrmjustin Feb 2015 #108
okasha Feb 2015 #146
hrmjustin Feb 2015 #147
Goblinmonger Feb 2015 #96
Warren Stupidity Feb 2015 #90
hrmjustin Feb 2015 #92
Warren Stupidity Feb 2015 #97
hrmjustin Feb 2015 #98
Warren Stupidity Feb 2015 #100
hrmjustin Feb 2015 #103
Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #93
stone space Feb 2015 #119
mr blur Feb 2015 #169
hrmjustin Feb 2015 #170
cbayer Feb 2015 #86
AtheistCrusader Feb 2015 #87
Rainforestgoddess Feb 2015 #95
cbayer Feb 2015 #99
Rainforestgoddess Feb 2015 #101
stone space Feb 2015 #112
Rainforestgoddess Feb 2015 #122
cbayer Feb 2015 #125
Rainforestgoddess Feb 2015 #131
stone space Feb 2015 #111
cbayer Feb 2015 #114
stone space Feb 2015 #116
cbayer Feb 2015 #118
stone space Feb 2015 #120
cbayer Feb 2015 #121
stone space Feb 2015 #123
cbayer Feb 2015 #124
stone space Feb 2015 #135
cbayer Feb 2015 #149
stone space Feb 2015 #110
cbayer Feb 2015 #113
stone space Feb 2015 #115
cbayer Feb 2015 #117
AtheistCrusader Feb 2015 #89
trotsky Feb 2015 #102
Curmudgeoness Feb 2015 #127
EvolveOrConvolve Feb 2015 #128
stone space Feb 2015 #129
EvolveOrConvolve Feb 2015 #130
stone space Feb 2015 #132
EvolveOrConvolve Feb 2015 #133
stone space Feb 2015 #134
EvolveOrConvolve Feb 2015 #137
stone space Feb 2015 #168
EvolveOrConvolve Feb 2015 #171
edhopper Feb 2015 #136
EvolveOrConvolve Feb 2015 #139
edhopper Feb 2015 #141
Lordquinton Feb 2015 #161
Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #140
stone space Feb 2015 #142
Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #143
stone space Feb 2015 #144
Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #145
Lordquinton Feb 2015 #160
NYC_SKP Feb 2015 #166

Response to stone space (Original post)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 06:55 PM

1. This is what I fear.

 


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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 07:11 PM

4. OMFG!!! PUT A TRIGGER WARNING IN YOUR SUBJECT LINE!!!

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 07:12 PM

5. What am i missing

with all this goat stuff?

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Response to edhopper (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 01:18 AM

148. Long story. My wife and I have some goats as pets in her country.

 

I mentioned it fairly early on after coming to DU, before realizing how DU comes down on pet owners.

Now it 100% goats, 100% of the time.

If I had said we had cats as pets, then you'd be asking them what all the cat stuff is about.

They just don't like pets, that's all.

No big deal.

I've come to expect it.

It easy to ridicule people thru their pets, and DU is just a hard place for pet owners in general, in my experience, with people constantly doing this.

I've pretty much come to accept the practice as a longstanding DU tradition, since it has been happening here at DU for as long as I've been here.

It's just the way that DU rolls. Not ideal for pet owners, but it is what it is. If pet owners want to be a part of DU, this is just something that they have to put up with whenever they make a post.

In any case, IMNSHO, goats are awesome!





















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Response to stone space (Reply #148)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 10:19 AM

150. That sounds weird

I haven't seen any anti-pet posts here.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #150)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 10:30 AM

151. Not sure how else to explain it.

 

But it's been going on since I first arrived here.

I just assumed that it happens to all pet owners.

Maybe it's only atheist pet owners?

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Response to stone space (Reply #151)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 10:32 AM

152. I doubt atheism has anything to do with it

since this particular jab comes mainly from other atheists.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #152)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 10:46 AM

153. OK, I give up.

 

What are all these goats that I've been seeing ever since I came to DU all about?



I assumed that it was just a jab at pet owners, and that it happens to everybody.

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Response to stone space (Reply #153)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 10:49 AM

154. I don't know

It seems lost in the fog of history.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #154)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 10:51 AM

155. All I know is that it started...

 

...when I mentioned our pet goats.

If it's not a general DU practice, then I can't explain it.

Surely there must be some reason why it happens.

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Response to stone space (Reply #155)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 10:52 AM

156. I guess there are those here

who think, and I am very sorry for the pun, that this will "get your goat".

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Response to edhopper (Reply #156)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 10:54 AM

157. Then they're wrong.

 

I've always known that some people don't like pets.

Doesn't bother me.

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Response to stone space (Reply #155)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 10:36 PM

167. Ah, that explains it.

It's a version of the "yacht club" insult/ fabrication aimed at cbayer and Starboard Tack. At least no one's questioned your tax status yet.

And here I just thought Warren was posting selfies.

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Response to stone space (Original post)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 07:02 PM

2. Fear doesn't even come close

 

Last edited Thu Feb 19, 2015, 07:40 PM - Edit history (1)

to describing it…

But I do fear people who think there are such things as militant atheists.

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Response to stone space (Original post)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 07:05 PM

3. I don't think everyone is using the word 'militant' in the same way.

I have heard the phrase 'militant atheist' for years, and this is the first I've heard that 'militant atheists' want to burn churches and kill believers.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 07:17 PM

6. It's a first for me, too. But remember what they said about MLK, ...

 

...who one biographer called the Apostle of Militant Nonviolence.

Will Herberg, “‘Civil Rights’ and Violence: Who Are the Guilty Ones?”, The National Review Sept. 7th, 1965, pp. 769-770

It did not come easy for us in this country, under the weight of the vast influx of immigrants and the residual effects of the frontier tradition, to consolidate a secure internal order based on custom and respect for constituted authority; but finally we managed. This internal order is now in jeopardy; and it is in jeopardy because of the doings of such high-minded, self-righteous “children of light” as the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King and his associates in the leadership of the “civil rights” movement. If you are looking for those ultimately responsible for the murder, arson, and looting in Los Angeles, look to them: they are the guilty ones, these apostles of “non-violence.”

For years now, the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King and his associates have been deliberately undermining the foundations of internal order in this country. With their rabble-rousing demagoguery, they have been cracking the “cake of custom” that holds us together. With their doctrine of “civil disobedience,” they have been teaching hundreds of thousands of Negroes — particularly the adolescents and the children — that it is perfectly alright to break the law and defy constituted authority if you are a Negro-with-a-grievance; in protest against injustice. And they have done more than talk. They have on occasion after occasion, in almost every part of the country, called out their mobs on the streets, promoted “school strikes,” sit-ins, lie-ins, in explicit violation of the law and in explicit defiance of the public authority. They have taught anarchy and chaos by word and deed — and, no doubt, with the best of intentions — and they have found apt pupils everywhere, with intentions not of the best. Sow the wind, and reap the whirlwind. But it is not they alone who reap it, but we as well; the entire nation.

It is worth noting that the worst victims of these high-minded rabble-rousers are not so much the hated whites, but the great mass of the Negro people themselves. The great mass of the Negro people cannot be blamed for the lawlessness and violence in Harlem, Chicago, Los Angeles, or elsewhere. All they want to do is what decent people everywhere want to do: make a living, raise a family, bring up their children as good citizens, with better advantages than they themselves ever had. The “civil rights” movement and the consequent lawlessness has well nigh shattered these hopes; not only because of the physical violence and insecurity, but above all because of the corruption and demoralization of the children, who have been lured away from the steady path of decency and self-government to the more exhilarating road of ‘demonstration’ — and rioting. An old friend of mine from Harlem put it to me after the riots last year: “For more than fifteen years we’ve worked our heads off to make something out of these boys. Now look at them–they’re turning into punks and hoodlums roaming the streets.

http://themoderatevoice.com/15520/recall-the-words-of-the-national-review/


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Response to stone space (Original post)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 07:18 PM

7. When did the preferred adjective for atheists change from "rabid" to "militant"?

Twenty years ago any atheist you happened to know was an atheist was considered "rabid" but I haven't heard that particular term of endearment in a while.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 07:31 PM

9. Wow. I hope that I never hear that one. Rabies is a horrible desease.

 

My wife was bitten as a child by a friend of hers while my wife and her teacher were trying to restrain her friend in the back seat of the car on the way to see a doctor because her friend had contracted rabies.

Her friend died, and my wife and the teacher both had to go thru a series of very painful shots because they were both bitten by her friend.

People who talk about "rabid atheists" (or "rabid anything" need to really think about what they are saying.

What other diseases would they like to use like that? Cancer? HIV?

Sheesh!

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Response to stone space (Reply #9)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 09:02 PM

12. Cancer is used quite a bit.

 

"He's a cancer on the team" shows up in sports and business world off and on.

Too soon for HIV to be used.

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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #12)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:11 AM

42. My TV has an "off" button made just for such occaisions.

 

"He's a cancer on the team" shows up in sports and business world off and on.


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Response to stone space (Reply #9)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 09:05 PM

16. Eh, I think militant is worse

It definitely carries a lot of cultural baggage at this point..

Sorry to hear of your wife's experiences, didn't mean to touch a personal nerve.

FWIW, I've heard atheists described as a cancer on society.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 09:49 PM

20. Certainly with folks accusing us of...

 

...burning churches and stuff now here at DU, the cultural baggage is beginning to pile up.



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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #16)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 11:07 AM

59. seriously? 64 years old somehow I haven't heard that one until now.. but I tend to use the term ...

 

"Rabid" when referring to Christian fanatics. Especially the ones I used to see on my teevee when I used to have one.

Or those creatures on street corners condemning everyone to death for the sin of being a non-believing human.

I use the term "Rabid" quite deliberately with the full implication of extreme danger to the health and well being of our nation and the world.

In recent years, I have expanded the frame work to include all religious fanatics, with an emphasis on the term religion to make my point.

But I've never met a "rabid" or a "militant" atheist though...






Hang Me... Oh Hang Me, and I'll be dead and gone.

Hang Me... Oh Hang me and I'll be dead and gone.

Wouldn't mind the hanging, but the laying in the grave so long, poor boy

I've been all around this world










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Response to stone space (Reply #9)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 10:19 PM

22. In this group, "rabid"

is now reserved for "rabid apologists" for religion, believers and especially Pope Francis.



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Response to okasha (Reply #22)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 10:37 PM

23. wow (nt)

 

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Response to okasha (Reply #22)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 12:33 PM

74. When "rabid" is used to mean

 

"Not acting out of reason, and unlikely to be disuaded by reason", it fits quite well. Obviously, no one is using it literally. Obvious to most, anyway.

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Response to okasha (Reply #22)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 01:57 PM

81. now reserved for "rabid apologists" for religion,

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!




you so funny!

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Response to stone space (Original post)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 07:21 PM

8. I think the whole problem is that you don't mean the word the same way others understand it.

militant mili|tant
Pronunciation: /ˈmɪlɪt(ənt

/
Definition of militant in English:
adjective
Favouring confrontational or violent methods in support of a political or social cause


You seem to define the word militant more like others would use the word "assertive"

So when you say "militant atheist" , we understand (because of the definition of the word) "violent, confrontational, activist atheist" when it really seems that what you are trying to communicate is "outspoken atheist".

Am I correct?

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Response to Rainforestgoddess (Reply #8)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 07:56 PM

10. I mean confrontational.

 

Militant, nonviolent, confrontation.

Perhaps it's our rap sheets that scares people?



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Response to stone space (Reply #10)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 09:01 PM

11. militant non-violent

Last edited Fri Feb 20, 2015, 02:08 AM - Edit history (1)

You have got to be kidding me.

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Response to Lordquinton (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 09:04 PM

15. Why do you accuse us of burning churches? (nt)

 

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Response to stone space (Reply #15)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 02:07 AM

27. No accusations, it's what actual militant atheists do

You keep claiming the label, but you demonstrate a complete lack of comprehension of what it means.

Militant means:

combative and aggressive in support of a political or social cause, and typically favoring extreme, violent, or confrontational methods.


That sounds like the opposite of you.

See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists

they were all about tearing down churches and killing believers.

I don't mean to Godwin the thread, but it's like claiming you're a Nazi, then getting upset and offended when people ask you why you hate Jews.

(Note to Juries, I am trying to explain a basic concept here, and this is the best example, it's extreme, but really drives the point home)

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Response to Lordquinton (Reply #27)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 07:09 AM

29. Now we're like Nazis?

 

I don't mean to Godwin the thread, but it's like claiming you're a Nazi, then getting upset and offended when people ask you why you hate Jews.


You may be confusing militant atheists with anti-theists here.

One is based on active nonviolence, and the other on hatred of religious folks.

Seriously, there's a huge difference.

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Response to stone space (Reply #29)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 07:34 AM

31. yes that is exactly the point that was made.

 

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #31)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 07:40 AM

32. Yeah, atheists are evil. We're just a bunch of church burning nazis. (nt)

 

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Response to stone space (Reply #32)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 12:07 PM

72. I like pie.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #72)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 02:13 PM

83. Who doesn't?

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #72)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 06:40 PM

126. What part of the goat does pie come from?

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Response to EvolveOrConvolve (Reply #126)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 08:16 PM

138. The head, obviously.

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Response to stone space (Reply #29)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 09:10 AM

33. You don't think

one can have a giant problem with religion and religious beliefs and not hate religious people?

You don't only not know what militant is, you don't know what anti-theist is.

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Response to stone space (Reply #29)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 09:28 AM

35. militant = active nonviolence

 

You can't be for real. You can't really think that is what the word means.

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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #35)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 09:42 AM

37. Would you demonize militants like MLK?

 

Many folks did at the time, with rather predictable results.

Or is it only atheists you want to demonize?

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Response to stone space (Reply #37)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 09:57 AM

39. OK.

 

1. I'm an atheist.
2. I'm a lot more confrontational of an atheist than you are on here.
3. I know MLK used it that way. That's not the normal usage either.
4. Again, you can answer the question: Do you identify with the sentiments of the Facebook group for militant atheists? You have no problems with those pictures I shared?

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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #39)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:07 AM

41. I don't do facebook. Nor am I a twit.

 

Do you identify with the sentiments of the Facebook group for militant atheists?


Old school luddite here.

Posting comments on DU already stretches my technological competence to the limit.

You have no problems with those pictures I shared?


I tend to pretty much ignore the internet memes you post.

They mostly seem to involve goats, anyway, and we already have several goats, so they don't really impress me.

Or do I have you confused with somebody else here? Hard to keep folks straight here.



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Response to stone space (Reply #41)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:18 AM

43. OK, scrolled back. Somebody else.

 

They mostly seem to involve goats, anyway, and we already have several goats, so they don't really impress me.

Or do I have you confused with somebody else here? Hard to keep folks straight here.


Oops...I need more coffee...

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Response to stone space (Reply #41)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:29 AM

46. You have me confused.

 

I'm the only red stapler at DU as far as I know.

So when a bunch of other people use the term militant atheist to be something you don't agree with, you call them a twit?

Ever think that maybe, like pretty much EVERYONE here is telling you, that you are the one that is using the term incorrectly?

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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #46)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:36 AM

49. Uh...no...you mentioned facebook.

 

So when a bunch of other people use the term militant atheist to be something you don't agree with, you call them a twit?


So I made a reference to twitter as well.

In my luddite brain, there are lots of synapses connecting the two.

Guess it's not a very good joke if I have to explain it.

Oh, well...

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Response to stone space (Reply #49)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:45 AM

51. Well, since we are going old school,

 

I thought it was a Monty Python reference. Which was funnier.

But I'm not the goat guy.

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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #51)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:52 AM

54. Oh, please do tell!

 

I thought it was a Monty Python reference. Which was funnier.


If I like it, I'll use it.

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Response to stone space (Reply #54)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 11:06 AM

56. "Upper Class Twit of the Year"

 

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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #39)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:32 AM

47. What does it mean to be militant on an internet board?

 

2. I'm a lot more confrontational of an atheist than you are on here.


I thought confrontation was something that takes place in the real world and in the streets, not on some internet chat site.

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Response to stone space (Reply #47)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:40 AM

50. So do you own a dictionary?

Perhaps you should start looking some of these words up.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/confrontation

Nothing in there about it having to be "in the real world."

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Response to trotsky (Reply #50)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:50 AM

52. Chat board militants?

 

I don't even know what it would mean to take militant action on an internet chat board like DU.

Is this some kind of coded reference to Anonymous or something?

If so, even that isn't a chat board activity, and it would hardly apply to the typical everyday luddite militant.


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Response to stone space (Reply #47)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 11:06 AM

57. We don't know each other in real life.

 

We can't compare what we don't know.

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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #57)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 11:46 AM

65. We discuss real world experiences all the time.

 

Not sure I understand your point here.

I'm willing to bet that neither one of us has engaged in militant action online.

Now, maybe you're Anonymous or something, but for a old school luddite like me, online militancy is still kind of an oxymoron.

I wouldn't know where to even begin.

How can the average layperson engage in militant action on an internet chat board?

Isn't it easier to do in meatspace?

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Response to stone space (Reply #29)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 04:11 PM

159. You know exactly what I meant

Looking at this post you are put into the same position and react in just the way that getting put in that position is supposed to induce. You know exactly what you're doing here, and the act is thin and boring.

I'm done interacting with you, but I'll leave you with a riddle: What do you have in common with a raven?

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Response to stone space (Reply #10)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 09:03 PM

14. The very definition of "militant" contradicts your use of "nonviolent"

 

It's kind of odd that you are using the word in a completely opposite meaning form it's definition and, yet, you are confused at those that understand it as it is defined.

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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #14)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 10:13 PM

21. Shoud militant atheists be demonized?

 

Do you view us as a threat?

Do you believe that we burn churches?

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Response to stone space (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 12:42 AM

26. I am an atheist.

 

I find your behavior on this thread needlessly combative.

Perhaps try and engage your opponents, rather than belittle and berate them?

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #26)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 07:12 AM

30. Some folks have been trying....

 

...to push us into the closet for some time here.

Our very existence offends them.

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Response to stone space (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 09:33 AM

36. You aren't a militant atheist.

 

Even if we use your definition of a confrontational atheist, you aren't that.

What the world understands as militant? Yes, they should be marginalized. If the shootings weren't about a crazy person freaking out over perceived parking spot problems and was, instead, a militant atheist trying to kill believers, then he, and other militant atheists like him, are a threat.

I think there are very, very few of those types of people around. Perhaps I'm wrong.

But if you go to facebook and look at the militant atheist page, you will find this (which is kind of in line with what you are saying about being confrontational but is in NO WAY like the faithiest you act like):

(And I've shared these with you before and you haven't addressed whether you stand with your other militant atheists to support positions like this)




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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #36)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:00 AM

40. MLK was marginalized.

 

What the world understands as militant? Yes, they should be marginalized.


Marginalized, demonized, and assassinated.

Do you really not understand the consequences of such demonization?

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Response to stone space (Reply #40)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:20 AM

44. Take things out of context much?

 

I was talking about Craig Stephen Hicks. If he did what he did because of his militant atheism, then he needs to be marginalized. Sure, even demonized. Never called for any assassinations.

Do you not agree? Are you fine with what Craig Stephen Hicks did if he did it in the name of his militant atheism (I'm not saying he did, but many here are.)

And are you going to respond to those pictures ever? Is that representative of what you feel as a militant atheist?

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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #44)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:27 AM

45. This isn't about Domestic Terrorists like Craig Hicks.

 

Another guy thinks the thread is about Nazis.

It is about the demonization of militant atheists here at DU, and how some here seek to force us into the closet.

And are you going to respond to those pictures ever? Is that representative of what you feel as a militant atheist?


Internet memes posted by you are unlikely to ever be representative of what I feel as a militant atheist.

They are more likely to reflect what you feel.

What I feel is more likely to be represented by what I post, not what you post.



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Response to stone space (Reply #45)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:34 AM

48. I have been in more than one dust up

with believers and faithests here.

But I will tell you one thing, no one is trying to force atheists into a closet.

Things can get combative, but no one is saying we should go away.

And you are not a militant atheist.

You are simply and completely wrong.

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Response to stone space (Reply #10)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 09:17 PM

17. Surely you understand that the understood usage implies violence

Or at least the willingness to employ violence to further a cause.

How can you get pedantic about the origin of the word rabid, which rarely implies the actual disease of rabies, but means unthinking anger, and not comprehend the root of the word militant?

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Response to Rainforestgoddess (Reply #17)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 09:35 PM

18. Did you read the definition that you posted?

 

Favouring confrontational or violent methods in support of a political or social cause


Note the "or". That's a logical disjunction.

When you talk about militants, you are talking about folks like the Berrigans.


Profile

Frida Berrigan

Militant




Frida Berrigan is a peace activist and research associate at the World Policy Institute, specializing in arms trade. She is also a columnist for Foreign Policy In Focus. She is the daughter of Philip Berrigan of the Catonsville Nine and Liz McAlister.

http://www.spokeo.com/Frida+Berrigan+1



You are talking about folks like MLK.



How many churches did MLK burn down?

Or are the rules different for atheists?

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Response to stone space (Reply #18)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 09:47 PM

19. No, *I'm* not talking about mlk or your other friends. You are.

Do a Google image search for militant, and see how many peace activists come up.


The point that everyone who engages you on this topic is trying to convey, is that what *you intend to say about yourself *, and *what you are implying by common usage of the word militant * are completely at odds.

Instead of digging in your heels about it, why don't you find a way to describe yourself that fits how you perceive yourself, that others understand?


I could describe myself as gay, and fight like hell anyone who understood that to mean homosexual, when in fact I meant lighthearted. I would technically be correct, but I'd look like a fool, because common usage means homosexual. So, to stop incessant arguments with people (unless that was actually my intention in the first place) I would find a better, more accurate descriptor for myself.

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Response to Rainforestgoddess (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 10:43 PM

24. It's about militants.

 

You can't leave folks like MLK and the Berrigans out unless you have different rules for atheists.

Why should atheists be demonized here at DU?

I haven't burned any churches.

Have you?

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Response to stone space (Reply #24)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 11:06 PM

25. I honestly don't know what the fuck you're talking about.



Yes, I see that you've found a book that uses militant in reference to mlk. But that's not what I'm saying. I'm pretty sure the author was using it as a deliberate oxymoron. Though perhaps the author was completely clueless as to the meaning, but I find that doubtful. I don't have the time to look into your other friends right now.


I'll type slowly for you. You are the only one here who doesn't think militant means violent, or willing to use violence.

With that in mind, why don't you find a descriptor for yourself suits both your image of yourself, AND common usage and understanding?

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Response to Rainforestgoddess (Reply #25)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 09:21 AM

34. A "clueless" MLK on militant nonviolence

 

"And I would be the first to say that I am still committed to militant, powerful, massive, non-violence as the most potent weapon in grappling with the problem from a direct action point of view."


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025920455

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Response to stone space (Reply #34)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 11:07 AM

58. A clueless Fred Flintstone on "gay"

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Response to Rainforestgoddess (Reply #25)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 11:37 AM

158. Reading the responses to this OP has been interesting.

A struggle for "rightness" seems to have overtaken some of the DUers herein above. I find it astonishing that the etymology of "militant" has subsumed the point of this OP.

The author self-identifies as a militant atheist. He has every right to so identify. He can be militant without ever engaging in violence, since the definition of "militant" does allow for confrontational adjurations that aren't necessarily violent.

For example, I am militant about feminism. I am also a pacifist. My militancy about feminism is expressed through non-violent verbal confrontations whenever I encounter sexism or misogyny--both online and IRL.

The same holds true for me with regards to racism and homophobia (which I would prefer to call "heterosexism," since we LGBT folk are not a group to be feared). Anytime I am faced with racism or homophobia, I address it--which cost me my last job when I asked my self-avowed racist boss to respect my right not to hear his racism in the workplace.

That some DUers associate militancy with violence is understandable. But, such a stance does not preclude the right of the author of this OP to self-identify as a militant atheist.

BTW, I don't "fear" the author of this OP.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #158)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 08:01 PM

163. Yes, people can absolutely pick their own labels.

More power to them. But they have to accept the baggage that comes along with the label they choose.

And it helps if they don't deliberately misunderstand analogies as literal slurs.

Nobody has accused stone space of burning churches. Nobody has called him a nazi or a communist. Nobody has told him they are afraid of him.

This is, as cbayer pointed out, a baiting thread with manufactured outrage liberally applied.

MOST atheists object to the term, because it is generally used as a slur. If one atheist asks another to rethink the term, there could, in fact, follow an actual, useful conversation on why one person thinks it's okay, and why the other does not. Instead, what we get are bizarre and rabid accusations of 'silencing' 'red baiting ', accusations that we think Martin Luther King burned churches. It's like an episode of the Twilight Zone.


Wave your finger at me if you like. I tried to have a real conversation. I don't have a history of confrontation with him, so this is not baggage from before spilling over, which may be the case with some of the other people involved in this thread.

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Response to Rainforestgoddess (Reply #163)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 08:07 PM

164. Wave my finger at you?

I don't think so. My observation is just that--an observation. (Actually, Oscar Wilde said something that applies to situations like this...)

Anywho, the author of this OP surely does have a bunch of folk stirred up. I think this OP would have faded into insignificance but for the myriad responses he's gotten.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #164)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 08:14 PM

165. May have misread your tone.

Entirely possible.

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Response to stone space (Original post)

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 09:03 PM

13. Even if militant meant what you think it means

You are so far from it.

There is a term thst suits you, look up fatheist.

Thanks for the callout tho.

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Response to stone space (Original post)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 02:45 AM

28. "Militant"?

 

I could think of better words.

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Response to bvf (Reply #28)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 09:54 AM

38. MLK could have used whatever words you are thinking of.

 

I could think of better words.


If only you had been around at the time to advise him and helped him on his oratory skills.

No doubt you could have written better speeches, and worded them better than MLK did.

Me, I'm just a mathematician.

I flunked English 104.

I wouldn't presume to lecture MLK on his choice of words.

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Response to stone space (Reply #38)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:56 AM

55. I wasn't referring to MLK.

 

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Response to stone space (Reply #38)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 11:21 AM

61. Because he was a powerful and gifted orator

Mlk could use the word militant as a deliberate oxymoron and have himself understood. Because it was in the context of his speech, in the context of who he was.

If you are a goat farming math teacher who flunked English and likes to get in pointless and deliberately obtuse arguments on the Internet, perhaps you shouldn't engage in trying to use literary devices such as oxymorons.

And for the record, I believe most of the people in this thread who you are accusing of trying to silence atheists, are in fact atheists who don't want you silenced, but merely want you to understand what you are implying about yourself when you use the term militant atheist.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists

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Response to Rainforestgoddess (Reply #61)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 11:30 AM

62. ^^THIS^^

 

Specifically this point:
I believe most of the people in this thread who you are accusing of trying to silence atheists, are in fact atheists who don't want you silenced, but merely want you to understand what you are implying about yourself when you use the term militant atheist.


It's like the idiots up here in the north that fly the Confederate flag on their trucks and think it's just a symbol of their redneckness.

Though, this is pretty fucking spot on, too:
If you are a goat farming math teacher who flunked English and likes to get in pointless and deliberately obtuse arguments on the Internet, perhaps you shouldn't engage in trying to use literary devices such as oxymorons.


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Response to Rainforestgoddess (Reply #61)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 11:38 AM

64. The dynamite goes...



Fucking A+

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #64)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 11:52 AM

67. That'll teach them Damn Godless Atheistic Russian Commies a lesson! (nt)

 

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Response to stone space (Reply #67)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 12:11 PM

73. Mrs. Pronoun and Mr. Antecedent want to spend their lives together.

Why do you deny them their love?

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Response to stone space (Reply #67)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 01:38 PM

76. Do you EVER read what you've written before you hit "Post"?

 

I would guess not because there's always a chance that even you would recognise what confused, ignorant, uninformed, irrational, condescending and just plain wrong garbage most of it is. Really, just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

[p style= text-align:left;color:#06a481;][font size="1"](note for jury: If you think I'm wrong, perhaps you would read the stuff written in this and other threads by this self-proclaimed and self-obsessed "Militant Atheist". Which in his case means an atheist who is banned from the Atheists & Agnostics Group for being unreasonable and offensive.)

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Response to mr blur (Reply #76)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 01:42 PM

77. I "read" an image of a nuclear weapon.

 

In response to a red-bating post.

Do you EVER read what you've written before you hit "Post"?


Would you like to see how Militant Christians respond to nuclear weapons?

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Response to stone space (Reply #77)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:22 PM

91. I'd like to see how militant goats respond to pie.

Who knows? Maybe mankind and caprinae may find some much needed middle ground.

If not, fuck it. Pie and gyros for everyone!

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #91)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:13 PM

104. damn, now I want a gyro! n/t

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Response to Rainforestgoddess (Reply #61)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 11:48 AM

66. OMG!!! The Russians are Comming! The Russians are Comming!

 

what you are implying about yourself when you use the term militant atheist.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists


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Response to stone space (Reply #66)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 11:54 AM

69. Journal, day two

Clue by four wasn't big enough. Moved directly to clue by ten. Still not big enough.

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Response to Rainforestgoddess (Reply #69)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 12:00 PM

70. You are trying to make people scared of militant atheists...

 

...by invoking the specter of those Godless Atheistic Russian Commies.

Can you say "red-baiting"?

McCarthy would be proud.

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Response to stone space (Reply #70)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 12:03 PM

71. Journal addendum

Might have hit too hard with the clue by ten.

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Response to Rainforestgoddess (Reply #71)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 01:53 PM

78. Sometimes the clue stick, even the very large clue stick, is useless.

 

Then it is time to call upon the fairy goat mother.


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Response to Rainforestgoddess (Reply #61)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 11:54 AM

68. AWESOME.

If you are a goat farming math teacher who flunked English and likes to get in pointless and deliberately obtuse arguments on the Internet, perhaps you shouldn't engage in trying to use literary devices such as oxymorons.


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Response to stone space (Original post)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:51 AM

53. I'm atheist, but I have not much to gain trying

to prove the non existence of anything. I don't get too up in arms over Easter bunnies, Santa Claus, tooth fairies, or compassionate conservatives either, and I'm equally convinced of their non-existence.

I have no dog in the fight like a believer in fanciful things might.

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Response to stone space (Original post)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 11:13 AM

60. I use the term "Rabid" quite deliberately..

 


I use the term "Rabid" when referring to Christian fanatics. Especially the ones I used to see on my teevee when I used to have one.

Or those creatures on street corners condemning everyone to death for the sin of being a non-believing human.

I use the term "Rabid" quite deliberately with the full implication of extreme danger to the health and well being of our nation and the world.

In recent years, I have expanded the frame work to include all religious fanatics, with an emphasis on the term religion to make my point.

I've never met a "rabid" or a "militant" atheist though...






Hang Me... Oh Hang Me, and I'll be dead and gone.

Hang Me... Oh Hang me and I'll be dead and gone.

Wouldn't mind the hanging, but the laying in the grave so long, poor boy

I've been all around this world










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Response to 2banon (Reply #60)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 11:32 AM

63. Militant atheists most certainly exist.

 

Rabid atheists most certainly exist, also, and they should seek medical attention as quickly as possible.

Rabies can kill you.

The injections are painful, but much preferable to what the disease can do to you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_rabies


There are an estimated 55,000 human deaths annually from rabies worldwide



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies


Person with rabies, 1959

Signs and symptoms

The period between infection and the first flu-like symptoms is typically 2 to 12 weeks in humans. Incubation periods as short as four days and longer than six years have been documented, depending on the location and severity of the contaminated wound and the amount of virus introduced. Signs and symptoms may soon expand to slight or partial paralysis, anxiety, insomnia, confusion, agitation, abnormal behavior, paranoia, terror, and hallucinations, progressing to delirium.[2][10] The person may have hydrophobia.

Death almost always occurs 2 to 10 days after first symptoms. Survival is rare once symptoms have presented, even with the administration of proper and intensive care.[11] Jeanna Giese, who in 2004 was the first patient treated with the Milwaukee protocol,[12] became the first person ever recorded to have survived rabies without receiving successful post-exposure prophylaxis. An intention-to-treat analysis has since found this protocol has a survival rate of about 8%.[13]

Hydrophobia

Hydrophobia ("fear of water" is the historic name for rabies.[14] It refers to a set of symptoms in the later stages of an infection in which the person has difficulty swallowing, shows panic when presented with liquids to drink, and cannot quench his or her thirst. Any mammals infected with the virus may demonstrate hydrophobia.[15]

Saliva production is greatly increased, and attempts to drink, or even the intention or suggestion of drinking, may cause excruciatingly painful spasms of the muscles in the throat and larynx. This can be attributed to the fact that the virus multiplies and assimilates in the salivary glands of the infected animal for the purpose of further transmission through biting, and the infected animal's ability to transmit the virus will reduce significantly if he can swallow his saliva with/without external source of water.[16]

Hydrophobia is commonly associated with furious rabies that affects 80% of the infected people. The remaining 20% may experience a paralytic form of rabies that is marked by muscle weakness, loss of sensation, and paralysis. This form of rabies does not usually cause fear of water.[15]



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Response to stone space (Original post)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 01:04 PM

75. i dont fear you

 

im atheist , but i dont want burn anything .
they must understand true theyself else they will hate us .

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Response to your bunny wrote (Reply #75)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 01:57 PM

82. Same here.

 



im atheist , but i dont want burn anything


I've manager to make it nearly 60 years so far without burning a single church.



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Response to your bunny wrote (Reply #75)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 02:16 PM

85. but i dont want burn anything .

 

Awwwww....

Come on over sometime and we'll "burn one"...

&spfreload=10

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #85)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 06:23 PM

162. Your post

is TexasTowelie approved!

Notice that I didn't say "God bless you."

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Response to stone space (Original post)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 01:53 PM

79. Your insistence on fighting a (losing) battle over the semantics of "militant"

 

rather than actually discussing an issue, renders your posts meaningless.

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #79)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 01:54 PM

80. Should I step into the closet? (nt)

 

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Response to stone space (Reply #80)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:37 PM

109. Depends on how big your closet is.

And whether or not you have anything fragile sitting on the floor in there.

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Response to stone space (Reply #80)

Sun Feb 22, 2015, 01:11 PM

172. If you must.

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Response to PassingFair (Reply #172)

Sun Feb 22, 2015, 01:13 PM

173. Sorry, but I wil not go quietly to the closet.

 

I'm sorry if my existence offends you.

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Response to stone space (Reply #173)

Sun Feb 22, 2015, 01:17 PM

174. Your posts puzzle and amuse me.

I do not find them offensive.

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Response to stone space (Original post)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 02:15 PM

84. I don't fear you and congrats on someone starting a mocking thread in the other room.

 

I get those mocking threads when I post in the prsyer cir le st times. Some people just can't help themselves.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #84)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:07 PM

88. On, no, that can't possibly be correct.

Their new and improved rules strongly discourages that kind of thing and the hosts have reserved the right to lock that kind of thing down.

I'm sure one will be along right away to take care of that, unless, of course, they are too busy participating.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #88)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:27 PM

94. Well i am not going to judge how they run their room but the threads speak for themselves

 

and speak to the person who posts them.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #94)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:14 PM

105. I can't see that particular thread, but I am sure it is just more of the

same strongly discouraged behavior that is routinely seen there.

I can see the thread that is mocking another safe haven group. This is also mentioned in the new rules. Doing that is also strongly discouraged with an additional statement that there is an expectation that other safe havens will be respected.

Always good for a giggle.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #105)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:22 PM

106. The thread I was mentioning is typical of the op.

 

I expect to see interfaith mentioned once or twice. What I find amusing is they say the room is just one or two of us but they can't stop talking about us.

The prayer circle is a little group but when I ask for prayers on certain topics I get mocked (not by name of course) in the stheist room. I expect it so it rarely bothers me anymore.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #106)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:28 PM

107. It's kind of like the comic pages of your local newspaper.

I am sorry that people have disrespected your prayer circle group. You have got to wonder what kind of person would do that.

Just stay on the high road, justin. People that behave like this got nothing on you.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #107)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:34 PM

108. Thanks and I take care of it when they wonder in to cause mischief.

 

After a few incidents it is perfectly fine now. It is a small group and one or two are away for lent now.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #94)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 10:37 PM

146. Imagine

being so dull that you have to spend your time trash talking a rather small group of other people in a tiny corner of the internet.

Now imagine being so intellectulally impoverished that in addition to the protected group in which you do this, you require "several off-site chatrooms" to continue trash talking a rather small group of other people in a tiny corner of the internet.



Morally speaking, I suppose, one should pity them And truly, I try, but--oh, shit---



--I just can't help it......


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Response to okasha (Reply #146)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 12:51 AM

147. I love it!

 



They just can't help themselves.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #88)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:43 PM

96. *sigh*

 

No host has participated in that thread which I'm sure you know but feel free to spread that nonsense. And if you haven't seen the thread then don't comment about it.

If you don't like it, you or someone else can alert and a jury will take care of it or you can send it to us as an SOP violation. If you want my thoughts on the record, I'm fine with a little blowing off of steam. Even you understand that this thread is likely just flamebait. So what would you rather have? This thread get significantly worse or allow some blowing off of steam in A/A?

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #84)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:15 PM

90. vestitu ne maxime punire

 

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #90)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:26 PM

92. Some people just can't help themselves.

 

They have to mock or make fun of someone to make themselves look better.

Don't you hate that Warren?

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #92)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:59 PM

97. I like mocking.

 

I'm sorry if you can't enjoy it, although I suspect you actually do. If there is drama going down in a thread here, there you are.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #97)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:02 PM

98. Good natured mocking is perfectly fine but mean spirited mocking is hurtful.

 

I may comment on drama but I am rarely the cause of it.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #98)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:09 PM

100. oh now you've done it!

 

it is the hurtzful means sprited mcokings that are badz!

Personally I think my jihadist atheist op was goofy and light hearted, but then again I think anything with a goat gif is just jolly.




How can you not smile when there are goats?

I didn't say you caused the drama justin, I said that you love it.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #100)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:13 PM

103. Oh I have come to expect your posts now.

 

Btw i shall pray for warmer weather.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #90)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:26 PM

93. Romanes eunt domus?

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #84)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 05:22 PM

119. I guess it's an honor of sorts.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #84)

Sun Feb 22, 2015, 09:41 AM

169. So, do you post something in the echo chamber and then rush over to see

 

if you've been noticed?

That's very sad, you know, not to mention rather needy.

Still, there's one thing worse than being talked about, isn't there Justin?

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Response to mr blur (Reply #169)

Sun Feb 22, 2015, 10:24 AM

170. No actually mocking threads of other members are not allowed in Interfaith.

 

We enforce that rule Mr. Blur. We don't feel the need to mock other members beliefs here.

Sad that adults members of other groups feel the need to mock others faith here.

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Response to stone space (Original post)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 02:56 PM

86. You need to provide a precise and concise definition.

You continue to call yourself this, but I don't really know what you mean. I think you are using the word differently than other people do.

So, please provide a definition, otherwise this just feels like baiting.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #86)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:02 PM

87. Uh-oh, friendly fire!

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Response to cbayer (Reply #86)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:28 PM

95. Good luck with that. n/t

[

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Response to Rainforestgoddess (Reply #95)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:06 PM

99. I read the whole thread before I asked and I am still not getting

any clarity of what this means.

I know that some atheists that post here have stridently objected to the use of this term and that many have responded to that and quit using it.

So I am doubly at a loss why someone would self-identify with this term.

Agreement on a definition might be very helpful.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #99)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:09 PM

101. I honestly hope you get a straight answer, because I'm at a loss. n/t

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Response to Rainforestgoddess (Reply #101)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 05:03 PM

112. Would some examples help?

 

I honestly hope you get a straight answer, because I'm at a loss. n/t

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Response to stone space (Reply #112)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 05:54 PM

122. Why do you want to blow up goats?

Are you a red baiting nazi?

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Response to Rainforestgoddess (Reply #122)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 06:06 PM

125. In case you don't see it below, I think I understand.

He is militant about some things. He is an atheist.

The word militant does not describe his atheism, it describes his approach to certain causes.

Combining the two into one phrase is misleading at best.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #125)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 07:31 PM

131. I did see that exchange, yes

But I felt the need to respond in kind with completely off topic and ridiculous accusations.

Still not sure if you've got to the bottom of it.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #99)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:59 PM

111. You once self-identified as a militant.

 

So I am doubly at a loss why someone would self-identify with this term.


Why do you find it surprising that others would do likewise?

Perhaps we define the term differently.

Back in the day, when I was marching in protests with signs and costumes, I considered myself and my colleagues pretty militant.

We were proud of it. We were making a statement and putting our cause out there in ways that were hard to ignore.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/121812151#post23

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Response to stone space (Reply #111)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 05:09 PM

114. I was actively involved in the anti-war movement. We had a cause. I am at a

loss to understand what your cause is.

Is your cause atheism? If so, what is the statement you are trying to make?

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Response to cbayer (Reply #114)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 05:17 PM

116. I've been involved in a number of things. (nt)

 

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Response to stone space (Reply #116)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 05:20 PM

118. What is your cause that would warrant calling yourself a militant atheist?

Perhaps this is the problem. You are an atheist and you also are militant about certain topics. The problem is that the two appear entirely unrelated and when you call yourself a "militant atheist", it really just looks like you are itching for a fight.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #118)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 05:39 PM

120. I can give you an example if you want, but...

 

...I can't narrow it down to a single "cause".

I don't even remember them all. I'm old as dirt. I've probably been busted somewhere between 30 or 40 times, for various things.

Individual examples are easy if you want them, but it's hard to narrow it down the way you seem to want me to.

when you call yourself a "militant atheist", it really just looks like you are itching for a fight.


Well, militant anything does indicate a willingness to engage in struggle, I suppose, but don't see why folks should get upset at people just because of who they are.

Folks certainly shouldn't be accusing us of burning churches.



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Response to stone space (Reply #120)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 05:52 PM

121. OK, I'm getting the picture. You are these two things but they are not related to

one another in any way except that you wear them both.

It would be like saying "I wear a red hat" when you are wearing a hat and your sweater is red.

You are a militant. You are an atheist. The mistake you are making is clear. You are combining the two things in a way that would indicate that your were describing your atheism as militant.

No one is upset with you because of who you are and no one has accused you of burning churches. You are truly manufacturing outrage, perhaps because your basic personality is militant and you are more than just willing to engage in a struggle.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #121)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 05:58 PM

123. Will I be billed for the psychoanalysis?

 

Or is it on the house?

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Response to stone space (Reply #123)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 06:01 PM

124. This bears no resemblance at all to psychoanalysis, but I am beginning

to understand that your definitions leave something to be desired.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #124)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 08:10 PM

135. I'm sure that we disagree...

 

...on lots of things, including definitions.

Maybe we even have disagreements on the nature of the struggle between Church and State.

Who knows?



But the demonization of Militants that goes on here in this forum needs to stop.

GODS OF METAL PLOWSHARES

On May 17, 1998, the 30th anniversary of the Catonsville Nine action, Sr. Carol Gilbert, OP, and Sr. Ardeth Platte, OP., previous plowshares participants from Jonah House; Fr. Larry Morlan of the Silo Plowshares; Fr. Frank Cordaro, from Des Moines, Iowa; and Kathy Boylan, past plowshares participant, disarmed a nuclear-capable B-52 bombers during the Department of Defense Open House at Andrews Air Force Base. As hundreds of spectators looked on, the five poured blood and hammered on the inside and outside of the bomb bay missile hatches and doors of the plane. Ardeth was temporarily restrained by a spectator but was able to rejoin the others. As the group began their action, Fr. Cordaro shouted: “Sisters and Brothers, let us disarm these gods of metal.” The group then unfurled their banner, prayed, passed out leaflets to those nearby and explained to onlookers the meaning of their action. They were then arrested and placed under arrest by base security. They were charged with depredation of government property and released.

On September 22, they were tried by a judge in US Federal Court in Greenbelt, MD. Their two-day trial included moving testimony from each defendant, and International law expert, Francis Boyle, was allowed to testify. Following their conviction they requested immediate sentencing. When they were denied this request, they informed the court they could not promise to return for sentencing. They remained in jail until January 4, their sentencing date. Frank, Carol and Ardeth were sentenced to six months in jail while Larry was sentenced to four months imprisonment. Due to her previous record, Kathy was given a 10-month prison sentence.

http://www.jonahhouse.org/archive/godsofmetal.htm

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Response to stone space (Reply #135)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 09:14 AM

149. I doubt that we disagree on all that much really, but

on this I think we are going to disagree.

I am not opposed to the word militant when used in many ways. Militancy can be a very good thing, particularly early in a movement or when a movement has stalled.

However, the term "militant atheist" has a rather distinct definition and defines ones atheism as militant. I don't think that describes you and I think that those that object to the term have a good argument for doing so.

There is no demonization of militants going on, it is only that you have personally rubbed some people the wrong way.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #86)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:54 PM

110. Active, confrontational nonviolent action/resistance.

 

I use it pretty much the same way as the Militant Christian MLK uses it in the quote in my sigfile.

That's how everybody who I know uses it.

I'm not sure why some folks here at DU accuse me of burning churches and stuff just because of who I am.

It's not baiting to be yourself when others are attempting to shove you in the closet.

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Response to stone space (Reply #110)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 05:06 PM

113. MLK used it in describing his civil rights work. What are you

actively confronting and where are you employing nonviolent action/resistance? What exactly is the cause for which you display militancy?

In general parlance and in regards to religion, militant is used to describe radical islamists and fundamental christians that kill abortion providers.

Because of the negative connotations, some atheists who post here regularly have strongly objected to use of the term when describing atheists who are merely vocal or provocative.

I don't think anyone wants to shove you in a closet, they just have no idea what you mean.

Since you are not only insisting on embracing the term but are now using it as a way to call out and attack others, it looks very much like baiting.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #113)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 05:13 PM

115. Calling out bigotry is not baiting.

 

Since you are not only insisting on embracing the term but are now using it as a way to call out and attack others, it looks very much like baiting.


I'm being accused of burning churches simply because of who I am.



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Response to stone space (Reply #115)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 05:18 PM

117. You are not calling out bigotry at all. You are fabricating an argument.

You are creating outrage because people don't agree with your definition.

You still haven't told me what your cause is. I really think you need to do that if we are going to continue this.

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Response to stone space (Original post)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 03:09 PM

89. Hahaa no, I don't fear unarmed people.

I did a little digging, found some interesting old threads on this issue going back years.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/121851906
http://www.democraticunderground.com/121812151

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #89)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:11 PM

102. Indeed.

While we can all agree the use of "militant" w.r.t. terms like "pacifist" or "vegetarian" or "feminist" is clearly tongue-in-cheek and not intended to imply real physical violence, when it comes to religion the connotation is clear.

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Response to stone space (Original post)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 06:47 PM

127. Please tell me

all the things that you do that make you a "militant".

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Response to stone space (Original post)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 06:55 PM

128. A couple of things

First, "militant atheist" is often used as a pejorative by religious believers that want to marginalize atheists. It provides an easy way for them to explain away a topic that makes them uncomfortable. You may self-identify as a "militant atheist", but the atheists I know don't like the term for the reasons I pointed out in this post, and in the Atheists and Agnostics group, its usage is seen as an accusation and is verboten. The term is also used by actual militant atheists who advocate violence against the religious. Based on those two usages, I have no fucking clue why you would try to identify as such.

Second, you weren't blocked from A&A to "silence you" but because you don't play well with others, you can't seem to go a day without being insulting, and you can't follow the rules. It has nothing to do with fear as your OP suggests, and everything to do with the fact that you're a jerk to almost every atheist that interacts with you.

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Response to EvolveOrConvolve (Reply #128)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 07:22 PM

129. I will not be pushed into the closet.

 

I may very well stop posting here at DU, since my mere existence seems to disturb some folks here so deeply, but I most certainly will not be pushed into the closet.

I've fought too damn long to eliminate closets to even think of doing that.

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Response to stone space (Reply #129)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 07:31 PM

130. If you self identify with a term that's insulting to atheists and is used by violent atheists

Then yes, your existence probably does disturb some folks here at DU. It's like the difference between being an environmentalist and being an E.L.F. terrorist. If someone self-identified themselves at DU with E.L.F., they wouldn't last long.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front

I think it's frustrating to some that you can't make this distinction. You certainly seem intelligent enough to understand it, but seem stubbornly resistant to admit you are wrong. And yep, that's going to piss people off.

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Response to EvolveOrConvolve (Reply #130)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 07:42 PM

132. We are not terrorists. (nt)

 

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Response to stone space (Reply #132)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 07:46 PM

133. I didn't say you were

I said you self identified using a phrase that's insulting to many atheists here at DU, and that it was also a term used by a group of atheists that argue for violent acts of terrorism to achieve their aims. I didn't accuse you of being a terrorist but rather questioned why you would self identify with a term that has terrorist connotations.

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Response to EvolveOrConvolve (Reply #133)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 07:55 PM

134. This is McCarthyism, plain and simple.

 

why you would self identify with a term that has terrorist connotations.


And this time you're doing it to your fellow atheists.

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Response to stone space (Reply #134)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 08:15 PM

137. Amazing

It's like you didn't read the post at all and instead responded to some caricature you've drawn up out of whole cloth. I can almost see your teeth-grinding, fist-clenching, eye-popping anger through your posts, and I think you need to chill out before you lose it and earn another time-out.

Let me reiterate the points I was trying to make: you're absolutely welcome to define yourself anyway you'd like, even if the term you use has violent connotations and is considered insulting by many of your fellow atheists. Just don't expect us to either condone it or to put up with you trying to apply that term to us.

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Response to EvolveOrConvolve (Reply #137)

Sun Feb 22, 2015, 08:07 AM

168. What does this even mean?

 

or to put up with you trying to apply that term to us.


Have I ever said you are a militant atheist?

Not sure if this is a walkback or an overactive imagination.

Do you commonly warn Christians not to call you a Christian, also?

Do you commonly warn gay folks not to call you gay?


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Response to stone space (Reply #168)

Sun Feb 22, 2015, 11:45 AM

171. I'd believed for a time that you were being purposefully obtuse

Like some sort of weird and obscure performance art. Now I'm not so sure. I think you may actually not get it.

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Response to EvolveOrConvolve (Reply #133)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 08:14 PM

136. You want to rethink

that "you seem like an intelligent person" line?

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Response to edhopper (Reply #136)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 08:18 PM

139. I'm an optimist

...

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Response to EvolveOrConvolve (Reply #139)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 08:20 PM

141. but keep

your camel tied.

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Response to stone space (Reply #132)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 04:33 PM

161. Who is we?

I have seen no evidence that you are speaking for anyone but yourself.

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Response to stone space (Reply #129)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 08:19 PM

140. Eliminate closets?

Where do you put your professorial tweed jackets? Your house must be a mess!

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #140)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 08:26 PM

142. Gay rights stuff. I'm a militant atheist, remember?

 

Or are you one of those who think we burn churches?





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Response to stone space (Reply #142)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 08:28 PM

143. Oh, I get it. You're comparing your experiences here to stigmatization homosexuals face.

You have an awfully high opinion of yourself.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #143)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 08:29 PM

144. Oh good greif! (nt)

 

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Response to stone space (Reply #144)

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 08:32 PM

145. I disagree.

Grief is bad.

Unless you're that guy from INXS, and it's like... your thing.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #143)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 04:31 PM

160. He's already compared himself to MLK

What else do you expect?

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Response to Lordquinton (Reply #160)

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 10:16 PM

166. An absurd and self-indulgent thread, moderators would have removed it back in the day.

 

It doesn't fit the SOP, it's a form of a callout, and just unproductive twaddle.

There are such thinks as militant atheists, none of them post on this board, IMO.

But in any event, precise definitions are needed.

Perhaps the murderer of those poor people, Craig Hicks, would be better defined as an murderous atheist.

But then I never met the dude.

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