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Fri Oct 13, 2017, 07:16 PM

 

Stick a fork in the term student athlete

http://us.blastingnews.com/sports/2017/10/unc-escapes-punishment-for-academic-scandal-002085831.html

The NCAA basically said that because there were non-athletes (mostly people with mental disabilities or trauma of some sort) in the phony classes they were using to keep players on the field, they didn't have the power to punish UNC. Essentially the disabled were patsies for this scam.

Guess what? EVERY college is gonna do this shit now. Now that they know all they need is a teensy bit of window dressing to make it seem like the phony classes are for everyone, they'll do it. And when they get caught, they'll just say "UNC did it."

It's over. There is now a big gaping bullet hole of a precedent to get around academic fraud. The NCAA is now only good for making sure players don't get paid.

35 replies, 3387 views

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Arrow 35 replies Author Time Post
Reply Stick a fork in the term student athlete (Original post)
NCDem777 Oct 2017 OP
JonLP24 Oct 2017 #1
Not Ruth Oct 2017 #2
MichMan Oct 2017 #11
tazkcmo Oct 2017 #3
ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #9
Cuthbert Allgood Oct 2017 #14
ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #15
Cuthbert Allgood Oct 2017 #18
tazkcmo Oct 2017 #16
JonLP24 Oct 2017 #19
ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #23
Hoyt Oct 2017 #4
JonLP24 Oct 2017 #5
NCDem777 Oct 2017 #6
ProfessorGAC Oct 2017 #7
Hoyt Oct 2017 #8
ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #10
tazkcmo Oct 2017 #17
ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #24
MichMan Oct 2017 #12
JonLP24 Oct 2017 #20
MichMan Oct 2017 #21
JonLP24 Oct 2017 #22
ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #25
JonLP24 Oct 2017 #26
ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #28
JonLP24 Oct 2017 #29
ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #30
JonLP24 Oct 2017 #32
ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #33
JonLP24 Oct 2017 #34
ClarendonDem Oct 2017 #31
unc70 Oct 2017 #13
Iggo Oct 2017 #27
JonLP24 Oct 2017 #35

Response to NCDem777 (Original post)

Fri Oct 13, 2017, 07:18 PM

1. It was a bullshit term they created to get out of paying workmen's comp

For injured players.

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Response to NCDem777 (Original post)

Fri Oct 13, 2017, 07:19 PM

2. I was watching ESPN ?? and they were saying that the reason that you see more NFL than NBA protests

 

Is because college basketball players are so much better paid than college football players. I guess that the NCAA does things their own way.

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Response to Not Ruth (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 13, 2017, 08:13 PM

11. Basketball teams have way fewer players. nm

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Response to NCDem777 (Original post)

Fri Oct 13, 2017, 07:21 PM

3. Good

The NCAA Deals Only in indentured servitude and is at the beck and call of the universities. The players need to be recognized for what they are. They are employees of the university and deserves a fair and Equitable compensation for their service to the university.

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Response to tazkcmo (Reply #3)

Fri Oct 13, 2017, 08:07 PM

9. They get fair and equitable compensation

 

In the form of free tuition, room and board and a great education. That is worth more than $100k over the course of 4 years at many (most?) schools. The student-athlete is certainly entitled to skip sports and pay for their tuition like the vast majority of students.

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Response to ClarendonDem (Reply #9)

Sat Oct 14, 2017, 01:34 PM

14. Not all sports get that. Most not even close.

Wrestling has fewer full rides to give than the number of slots they need to fill for a dual team.

Football, yes. But don't judge all sports and their athletes by football.

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #14)

Sat Oct 14, 2017, 01:38 PM

15. I agree completely with your post

 

And wasn't arguing that all sports are equal. I was simply arguing that the athlete who gets a full scholarship is fairly compensated, and won't leave school with the massive debt that many other students incur.

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Response to ClarendonDem (Reply #15)

Sat Oct 14, 2017, 02:09 PM

18. Absolutely.

My son wrestled DII for a couple years. He was able to graduate early and took that option. His scholarship was nowhere near as good as people thought it was.

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Response to ClarendonDem (Reply #9)

Sat Oct 14, 2017, 01:44 PM

16. $100,000/4$25,000/yr

And no security. These athletes do not receive a 4 year commitment from the school. They receive 4, one year commitments that can be rescinded if the athlete is unable to continue to perform (get injured) or poor grades, coach discretion and others reasons. Along the way, they are restricted by NCAA rules to earn money that would help pay for things not provided in the scholarship like food, clothing and recreational activities.

http://www.bestcollegesonline.com/blog/14-surprising-facts-about-being-a-college-athlete/

The above is just one link of many that contradict your statement of $100,000 scholarships. As this article points out, the average is closer to 8k/yr. A far cry from 25k/yr and in any case none provide actual cash to live on. 30 hrs study and 20 hrs (or more) of athletics per week leaves little time for anything else. Would you be "happy" to work a 50 hr/week job for $25k/yr (the high end of scholarships)? That's fair and equitable?

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Response to tazkcmo (Reply #16)

Sat Oct 14, 2017, 02:35 PM

19. +1 billion

Coaches & athletic directors make big money and aren't restricted to scholarship.

Not to mention the 1 year scholarship is so coaches can cut players so it's not about academics.

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Response to tazkcmo (Reply #16)

Sat Oct 14, 2017, 03:41 PM

23. The student-athlete is free to turn down the scholarship offer

 

And take loans to pay for their education like most students. Our daughter played softball in college, as did many of her high-school classmates, and most softball players don't receive a full scholarship. Instead, they receive a small amount of financial aid that covers very little of their education costs. Those athletes still have to get up every morning at 5 a.m. for weight lifting and conditioning, attend a 2-3 hour practice every day in the afternoon, and travel on a bus for hours on end to away games. Do you think those players should receive compensation from the NCAA or school? Because in my experience they aren't complaining or asking for additional pay. Instead, they are happy they have the opportunity to receive a discounted education and be able to play the sport they love for an additional 4 years.

And my argument about 100k should have been more specific. I was referring to football/basketball division I scholarships, not scholarships across all sports.

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Response to NCDem777 (Original post)

Fri Oct 13, 2017, 07:32 PM

4. Maybe NFL, NBA needs to pay colleges as a training ground for future players.

I much prefer college sports to professional. But the way things are in our country nowadays, it's hard to deny kids payments for their athletic abilities.

Don't know if there is an answer that will preserve the "studen athlete."

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 13, 2017, 07:37 PM

5. I think they should be able to enter a similar labor market coaches enjoy

Let colleges bid for players and get rid of the monopsonic rule.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 13, 2017, 07:48 PM

6. Here's my answer

 

end college sports.

If the NFL, NBA, etc. need a minor league, they can pay for it

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Response to NCDem777 (Reply #6)

Fri Oct 13, 2017, 07:56 PM

7. Actually,There Might Be A Market For Alternate Ownership

People who don't want to spend 2 billion on an NBA team might buy a team for 100 million if it meant they got the regional interest that the colleges have.

Today, no D league can survive on revenue and interest. It's only NBA and parent team money that keeps them afloat.

But, if (for instance) a developmental league had a team in Kentucky, but UK and Louisville didn't have teams, that might be an interesting investment for a potential owner.

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Response to NCDem777 (Reply #6)

Fri Oct 13, 2017, 08:00 PM

8. Greed has kind of gotten us to that point.

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Response to NCDem777 (Reply #6)

Fri Oct 13, 2017, 08:12 PM

10. Baseball and basketball both have a minor league

 

And do you really want to end college football, which provides a free (or subsidized) education for maybe 100,000 individuals a year? College football also provide funds for less popular sports like tennis, soccer, etc.

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Response to ClarendonDem (Reply #10)

Sat Oct 14, 2017, 01:47 PM

17. And multi million dollar salaries for coaches.

Seems fair to me, if you're the coach.

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Response to tazkcmo (Reply #17)

Sat Oct 14, 2017, 03:43 PM

24. How is it unfair to the athlete?

 

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Response to NCDem777 (Original post)

Fri Oct 13, 2017, 08:17 PM

12. The current system is better for most players

The vast majority of players do not make it into professional sports. At least they are able to attend high quality colleges and obtain a degree

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Response to MichMan (Reply #12)

Sat Oct 14, 2017, 02:39 PM

20. That's why they should get market value compensation

Because the vast majority don't go pro. There is professional pressure when it comes to these games + TV and many folks are making big money off the backs of labor. You can't have football games without football players. They should all go on strike.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #20)

Sat Oct 14, 2017, 02:54 PM

21. I agree

Don't want to play in College, go on strike and return college sports back to people that are there to obtain a degree like they are in every sport but Football, Basketball & Hockey

They wont have any problems finding people who want to play.

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Response to MichMan (Reply #21)

Sat Oct 14, 2017, 03:02 PM

22. I'd be fine w that if they didn't give coaches big money

Let the history professor coach the team and also end television contracts & games during the weeknights. Get rid of the professional pressure.

To maintain the monopsony rule is designed so the NCAA and networks can make big money off the backs and if no 5 or 4 star even 3 star players didn't play the ratings would go in the toilet and the billions in revenues would decrease.

The rules the NCAA has are the kind of rules you don't see in any other industry and I haven't even gotten into the abuses these athletes receive from coaches hanging 1 year scholarships over their heads. A lot of these athletes have to take vanilla majors to keep up their athletic commitments or they are getting cut.

I took economics and the current system doesn't make any sense other than putting money into the pockets of a select few. At least be consistent and call for the end of TV contracts, sponsorships, etc.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #20)

Sat Oct 14, 2017, 03:46 PM

25. College football teams

 

Have a roster of about 45 players. Some are on a full ride, some are not. Many of those players never play a down in anger. Should they all get paid equally? Do you only want the college football player to get paid, or should the college tennis player also get paid? I've never seen a college tennis match on tv. What about women's soccer players? I attended Virginia, and they have top ten baseball, tennis, and women's soccer programs, but those athletes earn very little for the school.

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Response to ClarendonDem (Reply #25)

Sat Oct 14, 2017, 03:51 PM

26. I say let the market decide

5 star recruits would obviously be paid more. I hate the monopsonic rule where the third string center gets as much compensation as the starting QB.

This is one of the areas I favor the invisible hand of the free market.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #26)

Sat Oct 14, 2017, 04:02 PM

28. 5 star recruits

 

Often end up being a bust and never playing, or getting kicked off the team because of academic/legal issues. Steph Curry is one of the top 3 basketball players in the last decade, and went to Davidson because Duke/UNC and other D-I schools didn't think he was good enough to play. Tom Brady was a lightly recruited HS QB who was drafted in the 6th round by the Patriots, but is probably the best NFL QB ever. By comparison, Kelly Barnhill of Florida (http://floridagators.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=10185) is widely viewed as one of the best pitchers in the history of softball, so what should Kelly get paid compared to other athletes at Florida?

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Response to ClarendonDem (Reply #28)

Sat Oct 14, 2017, 04:09 PM

29. Depends on the highest bidder

Not my call let the teams compete for services and while many do wash out 5 star consistently make it to the NFL. Myles Garrett was one of the top 2 players in the nation coming out of high school. Now he is the #1 overall pick. This is especially true for one and done players in the NBA.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #29)


Response to ClarendonDem (Reply #30)

Sat Oct 14, 2017, 04:17 PM

32. There are a lot of former "student athletes" that criticize the current model

All I can do is agree to disagree.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #32)

Sat Oct 14, 2017, 04:18 PM

33. Fair enough

 

And enjoy the rest of your Saturday.

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Response to ClarendonDem (Reply #33)

Sat Oct 14, 2017, 04:19 PM

34. You too

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #29)

Sat Oct 14, 2017, 04:17 PM

31. One and done players

 

Also can stay for 4 years and get a free education. Myles Garrett got a free education and now has the opportunity to earn millions of dollars in the NFL. Seems like he got a pretty good deal.

About half of 5 star recruits make the NFL - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1938590-whats-the-success-rate-for-5-star-recruits-reaching-the-nfl - should the other half be paid the same.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. My position is that a college scholarship is adequate compensation for a student's time at school. I think the majority of athletes who have the opportunity to attend the school of his or her dream, at a discounted cost, while playing a sport they love, will agree.

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Response to NCDem777 (Original post)

Fri Oct 13, 2017, 08:33 PM

13. The article linked in OP has its facts wrong

The situation in the UNC African American Studies department was pretty bad, though not as described. The courses were the ultimate slide courses, but were not designed specifically for football or basketball. It probably started as a way to attract students to AFAM courses and to help those trying to major in AFAM. Many of those students were AA but not necessarily athletes. Another group highly represented in those classes were members of fraternities.

By disabled, do you mean people with dyslexia or ADHD or what? A whole lot of ADA issues were conflated with the academic issues by the press and critics, including supposed professionals who should have known better. There is also a strong undercurrent of racism coming from many supporters of other schools. It is an embarrassing mess all around.

Not to mention things like FOIA requests revealing the most strident critics were misleading the public, while at the same time having an affair with each other while married to others.

And on and on and on.

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Response to NCDem777 (Original post)

Sat Oct 14, 2017, 04:00 PM

27. That's dishonest. Low.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #27)

Sat Oct 14, 2017, 07:21 PM

35. I agree

I think it was mostly racism from the media to say african americans taking african american studies as an "easy course".

I have my arguments when it comes to student athletes but ai don't think UNC was in the wrong. College basketball players often miss classes at all schools because they are busing & flying all over the place. They have to do the best they can to balance that with their academic obligations.

It is easier to go into the NBA and go to college later plus you can sign any deals you want whether that's agents (lawyers) or endorsements but like the NCAA says fewer than 3% go pro so they deserve a piece of the billion dollar pie.

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