Alright. What the fuck is wrong with this image?

[El Supremo]

The Atlanta Braves were cowered into not putting this on their batting caps this year. Other than its being called the "Screaming Savage" why is this racist? It beats the hell out of Cleveland's Cartoon 'Chief Wahoo' and needless to say, the Washington 'Redskins'. I think it is a proud rendition of a Mohawk (or other) Native American from 150 or 200 years ago.



May I remind all you PC people that one of our most famous insignias from the First World War was of the Lafayette Escadrille:

[TZ]

1. There is a serious movement afoot

to change the Washington Redskins name and logo. Why don't you ask a Native American why they are offended by these images cause they are. Not our place to tell minorities what they should and should not be offended by.

[trumad]

2. And I'll remind everyone that during the first world war,

blacks couldn't drink out of the same water fountain as whites.

Meaning things change. You using World War one as an example of less PC times cracks me up.

[Auggie]

3. It's a stereotype El ...

but the Cleveland ballclub is indeed the worst offender.

They area hosted teams called "Spiders" and "Blues" long ago -- bring either back. I don't care what they're called as long as they replace the current name and logo. It's a disgrace and blemish on Northern Ohio.

[Goblinmonger]

4. "Other than its being called the 'Screaming Savage'"

Do we need to go further than that? Seriously? It is a depiction of a Native American that is all stereotype. It is a Romanticized view of the culture that draws into far too many negative depictions.

And if you really are that clueless as to why Native American mascots are not a good thing, I suggest you start with some reading into Dr. Stephanie Fryberg's research. This is a good place to start. Or this one.

[El Supremo]

5. They should drop that name but not the logo. What really got me pissed off on this general matter...

was when the NCAA and voters of North Dakota made the University of North Dakota drop the "Fighting Sioux" nickname. A large majority of the northern tribes wanted to keep the name. They were proud about it.

My former state senator, who is Comanche, and I talked about this. She passed a bill that said that any school must get the approval of the tribe to use a Native American mascot or name. That is the fair way of doing it. I don't understand people who are so sensitive about names. The Original Americans should have their proud heritage remembered.

Read about it: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8045554/north-dakota-residents-vote-let-school-scrap-fighting-sioux-nickname

[Goblinmonger]

7. I have 2 degrees from UND

The change of the mascot is LONG overdue. And to say that the majority of the northern tribes support it is not the whole story. The tribe that has come out in support of it has received a good deal of monetary support from UND interests to do so.

Fryberg's work on mascots is very interesting on what the mascots do to the self-image of Natives compared to Whites. Their self-image goes down while ours goes up.

If their proud heritage should be remembered, calling them the "fighting Sioux" kind of blasts against what the northern plains tribes were all about.

[El Supremo]

8. I stopped reading that bullshit when he said:

"there are relatively fewer representations of their group in mainstream contexts."

This is where I live:




And how many states and cities have Indian names?

[Goblinmonger]

10. OK, two things

1. You made it 2 whole sentences? Bravo.

2. You don't really understand how what you posted proves Fryberg (a female, btw) right? The depiction YOU post is a Native American in a headdress. That's one of the stereotypes that they are talking about. One of the stereotypes that makes non-Natives feel better about themselves but makes Natives feel worse (if you actually get past the first two sentences you might find that out). Which might explain why you are so invested in keeping the mascot--they make you feel better about yourself. Unfortunately, that is at the expense of the self-image of the very Natives you claim you want to "honor."

ETA: How many of those cities with native names use stereotypes like the one you posted?

[Iggo]

6. So your argument is that this racist image...

...is not as racist as a different racist image or a certain racist team name.

And then you remind us that people from a long time ago were racist.

A'ight.

[El Supremo]

9. That image is not racist.

Neither is this one:

Shall I go on?

[Goblinmonger]

11. OMG

If you don't see how relying on an image of a Native American with feathers in his hair and war paint on ISN'T racist, then there really isn't hope for you in this regard.

[El Supremo]

20. You really need to talk to people like these during one of the hundreds of annual pow-wows:

[El Supremo]

21. Now who is avoiding what?

Let the Native Americans decide what is racist or not. Not overzealous, politically correct, nannies like you.

[Goblinmonger]

22. Have you read the Fryberg yet?

(psst: she's Native American, by the way)

And you may want to acquaint youself with some other overzealous, politically correct, nannies like Russell Means.

And if you don't see the difference between a group of actual Native Americans using their traditional dress and using a stereotyped image as a mascot, again, there is little hope for you.

[Goblinmonger]

23. Is the picaninny image racist?

Haven't gotten an answer from you yet. Your lack of an answer might lead one to think that you don't feel it's racist or you know that admitting it is racist shots your argument to crap. But I'd like to see how you deal with it.

[Goblinmonger]

25. I didn't call you racist.

I asked if you thought that image was racist. Seems like an easy question.

[a la izquierda]

27. Yes. But those are ACTUAL native people...

Practicing their culture. They're not a sports team using cartoonish mascots.

[Iggo]

12. Yes it is.

And go ahead, if you must.

[Goblinmonger]

13. So this probably isn't racist, either, in your world

[Iggo]

14. Exactly!

If they just get rid of the name picaninny, then everything's hunky-dory!

[El Supremo]

15. Brother!

There is no hope for you two.

You probably think even this is racist:

[Goblinmonger]

17. It doesn't go unnoticed

that you COMPLETELY avoid the question of whether the picaninny image is racist.

Is it?

And please distinguish it from the Native American image you posted. Unless you think it isn't racist but we're going to have a different discussion if you actually say it isn't.

[El Supremo]

18. I don't answer stupid questions.

[Goblinmonger]

19. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, you've got nothing.

Duly noted.

[Goblinmonger]

16. I mean, hey,

shouldn't the picaninnies be proud that their heritage is being honored so much?

[CheapShotArtist]

26. No offense to anybody here,

but that is one UGLY ASS logo they were about to put on their batting caps. Even the Braves' tomahawk would look better than that!