Sports
Related: About this forumAlright. What the fuck is wrong with this image?
The Atlanta Braves were cowered into not putting this on their batting caps this year. Other than its being called the "Screaming Savage" why is this racist? It beats the hell out of Cleveland's Cartoon 'Chief Wahoo' and needless to say, the Washington 'Redskins'. I think it is a proud rendition of a Mohawk (or other) Native American from 150 or 200 years ago.
May I remind all you PC people that one of our most famous insignias from the First World War was of the Lafayette Escadrille:
TZ
(42,998 posts)to change the Washington Redskins name and logo. Why don't you ask a Native American why they are offended by these images cause they are. Not our place to tell minorities what they should and should not be offended by.
trumad
(41,692 posts)blacks couldn't drink out of the same water fountain as whites.
Meaning things change. You using World War one as an example of less PC times cracks me up.
Auggie
(31,130 posts)but the Cleveland ballclub is indeed the worst offender.
They area hosted teams called "Spiders" and "Blues" long ago -- bring either back. I don't care what they're called as long as they replace the current name and logo. It's a disgrace and blemish on Northern Ohio.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)Do we need to go further than that? Seriously? It is a depiction of a Native American that is all stereotype. It is a Romanticized view of the culture that draws into far too many negative depictions.
And if you really are that clueless as to why Native American mascots are not a good thing, I suggest you start with some reading into Dr. Stephanie Fryberg's research. This is a good place to start. Or this one.
El Supremo
(20,365 posts)was when the NCAA and voters of North Dakota made the University of North Dakota drop the "Fighting Sioux" nickname. A large majority of the northern tribes wanted to keep the name. They were proud about it.
My former state senator, who is Comanche, and I talked about this. She passed a bill that said that any school must get the approval of the tribe to use a Native American mascot or name. That is the fair way of doing it. I don't understand people who are so sensitive about names. The Original Americans should have their proud heritage remembered.
Read about it: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8045554/north-dakota-residents-vote-let-school-scrap-fighting-sioux-nickname
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)The change of the mascot is LONG overdue. And to say that the majority of the northern tribes support it is not the whole story. The tribe that has come out in support of it has received a good deal of monetary support from UND interests to do so.
Fryberg's work on mascots is very interesting on what the mascots do to the self-image of Natives compared to Whites. Their self-image goes down while ours goes up.
If their proud heritage should be remembered, calling them the "fighting Sioux" kind of blasts against what the northern plains tribes were all about.
El Supremo
(20,365 posts)"there are relatively fewer representations of their group in mainstream contexts."
This is where I live:
And how many states and cities have Indian names?
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)1. You made it 2 whole sentences? Bravo.
2. You don't really understand how what you posted proves Fryberg (a female, btw) right? The depiction YOU post is a Native American in a headdress. That's one of the stereotypes that they are talking about. One of the stereotypes that makes non-Natives feel better about themselves but makes Natives feel worse (if you actually get past the first two sentences you might find that out). Which might explain why you are so invested in keeping the mascot--they make you feel better about yourself. Unfortunately, that is at the expense of the self-image of the very Natives you claim you want to "honor."
ETA: How many of those cities with native names use stereotypes like the one you posted?
Iggo
(47,534 posts)...is not as racist as a different racist image or a certain racist team name.
And then you remind us that people from a long time ago were racist.
A'ight.
El Supremo
(20,365 posts)Neither is this one:
Shall I go on?
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)If you don't see how relying on an image of a Native American with feathers in his hair and war paint on ISN'T racist, then there really isn't hope for you in this regard.
El Supremo
(20,365 posts)El Supremo
(20,365 posts)Let the Native Americans decide what is racist or not. Not overzealous, politically correct, nannies like you.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)(psst: she's Native American, by the way)
And you may want to acquaint youself with some other overzealous, politically correct, nannies like Russell Means.
And if you don't see the difference between a group of actual Native Americans using their traditional dress and using a stereotyped image as a mascot, again, there is little hope for you.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)Haven't gotten an answer from you yet. Your lack of an answer might lead one to think that you don't feel it's racist or you know that admitting it is racist shots your argument to crap. But I'd like to see how you deal with it.
Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #23)
Post removed
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)I asked if you thought that image was racist. Seems like an easy question.
a la izquierda
(11,791 posts)Practicing their culture. They're not a sports team using cartoonish mascots.
Iggo
(47,534 posts)And go ahead, if you must.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)Iggo
(47,534 posts)If they just get rid of the name picaninny, then everything's hunky-dory!
El Supremo
(20,365 posts)There is no hope for you two.
You probably think even this is racist:
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)that you COMPLETELY avoid the question of whether the picaninny image is racist.
Is it?
And please distinguish it from the Native American image you posted. Unless you think it isn't racist but we're going to have a different discussion if you actually say it isn't.
El Supremo
(20,365 posts)Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)Duly noted.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)shouldn't the picaninnies be proud that their heritage is being honored so much?
CheapShotArtist
(333 posts)but that is one UGLY ASS logo they were about to put on their batting caps. Even the Braves' tomahawk would look better than that!