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(10,044 posts)
Wed Dec 14, 2011, 12:36 AM Dec 2011

"The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo"

Just announced on Letterman show that Lena Endre, the actress who portrays Lisbeth Salander in the movie will be on the show tomorrow night....be sure to tune in.

I'm afraid to see the movie, I think. It might spoil the books.

"The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo" (Original Post) fadedrose Dec 2011 OP
The first movie was just fine. All kinds of evil and harsh shit, but a great film. DCKit Dec 2011 #1
The book(s) were incredible. The Movies were the best I've seen OffWithTheirHeads Dec 2011 #2
small correction... PoiBoy Dec 2011 #3
Correction! Yours is not a "small" correction - it's Humongous!! fadedrose Dec 2011 #6
Rooney Mara will be on Letterman tonight (Wednesday) MaineDem Dec 2011 #15
I LOVED the books, LOVED the Swedish movies MaineDem Dec 2011 #4
I'm going to see the movie... fadedrose Dec 2011 #20
The movies were Swedish with subtitles MaineDem Dec 2011 #21
i have asked in other places. seems to be THE book. i dont get it seabeyond Dec 2011 #5
I was so against this book before I read it.... fadedrose Dec 2011 #7
this review is what i got from the series. tell them he is feminst seabeyond Dec 2011 #8
Read the book - the library has it fadedrose Dec 2011 #9
I just finished reading the book, and mostly agree with that review. MH1 Jan 2012 #23
You're right, of course, but... fadedrose Jan 2012 #24
I could tolerate the dead chicks. What I couldn't take was the bad writing. mainer Dec 2011 #10
i listened to NPR about this book about a yr ago. i heard the same about the writing. seabeyond Dec 2011 #11
I never read a book without a few boring passages fadedrose Dec 2011 #12
"a few boring passages" is absolutely OK in any book. mainer Dec 2011 #13
I guess it's a good thing... mvccd1000 Dec 2011 #16
Actually, editors ARE responsible for deciding that mainer Dec 2011 #18
I agree that editors/publishers decide WHAT gets published... mvccd1000 Dec 2011 #19
dreadful book Brainstormy Jan 2012 #25
It's a good way to determine a person's reading tastes mainer Jan 2012 #27
I thought it was a great read. Lex Jan 2012 #30
I've been considering getting this ohheckyeah Jan 2012 #28
I don't know if that person has read the book, but I have. Lex Jan 2012 #29
Okay - ohheckyeah Jan 2012 #31
Just curious. Have you read the book? Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #14
Just saw Lisbeth, Rooney Mara fadedrose Dec 2011 #17
GREAT book, just finished it. I enjoyed it Lex Jan 2012 #22
This message was self-deleted by its author mainer Jan 2012 #26


(18,541 posts)
1. The first movie was just fine. All kinds of evil and harsh shit, but a great film.
Wed Dec 14, 2011, 12:57 AM
Dec 2011

Pretty much real life. I'm afraid to watch the English language version now.

The S.O. doesn't do subtitles, so I haven't watched the other two on Netflix streaming yet.



(10,337 posts)
2. The book(s) were incredible. The Movies were the best I've seen
Wed Dec 14, 2011, 01:00 AM
Dec 2011

in term of being true to the books. The movies are all currently available on Netflix streaming.


(1,535 posts)
3. small correction...
Wed Dec 14, 2011, 02:42 AM
Dec 2011

..if I may...

Lena Endre played the character of Erica Berger, Editor in Chief of Millennium Magazine in the Swedish version of the Millennium trilogy movies...

Noomi Rapace played Lisbeth Salander in the Swedish version of the movies, and Rooney Mara plays Lisbeth in the American version to be released next week...

BTW... the books are awesome..!!


(10,044 posts)
6. Correction! Yours is not a "small" correction - it's Humongous!!
Wed Dec 14, 2011, 11:02 AM
Dec 2011

Thanks and I'm sorry. I was reading during the Letterman program and that's what happens when you read and watch TV. Have to give up one of them or forever be confused.

Thanks again, sorry.


(18,161 posts)
4. I LOVED the books, LOVED the Swedish movies
Wed Dec 14, 2011, 07:33 AM
Dec 2011

I'm told the Hollywood movie is good but I liked the original so much I'm afraid it will be a let-down. But I'll see it.

There were some changes from the book's ending in the Swedish movie and some things were left out from the others but nothing that changed the gyst of the books.


(10,044 posts)
20. I'm going to see the movie...
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 03:30 PM
Dec 2011

Haven't been to a movie for a couple of years. I was curious about the movie you saw - was it in Swedish or English? One of the things that interests me most was Lisbeth's memory...did the movie make a great deal of it as in the book? Next to the sex scenes her memory really stands out in my mind. No rape and no memory means no books


(18,161 posts)
21. The movies were Swedish with subtitles
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 03:48 PM
Dec 2011

If I remember correctly, the movie does play up Lisbeth's photographic memory. The movie didn't disappoint me after reading the books. That's very unusual.



(110,159 posts)
5. i have asked in other places. seems to be THE book. i dont get it
Wed Dec 14, 2011, 10:59 AM
Dec 2011

and i am looking for someone to explain this book to me. this is what i posted elsewhere.

it is the big rave. the original title was.... men who hate women. that title would not fly in u.s. so they changed it to bring it here. for about a year now i have been hearing about this book and seeing it everywhere. it is like a mass conditioning of society getting into the ugly of rape and male sexual fantasy with the ok of literary genius. it is even poorly written and people say ignore that for the story.

the swedish movie on the rape was described as long, explicit, beyond the norm. the u.s. movie is said to have taken the rape further. the girl raped then goes on to have sex like it is nothing. a middle aged man that is nothing, has every young woman hittin on him with explicit sex. all the women in the book has sad/sick sexual assault experience in their history

and this has become THE book.

i dont get it.


(10,044 posts)
7. I was so against this book before I read it....
Wed Dec 14, 2011, 11:11 AM
Dec 2011

Didn't want to read a book where sex was the reason it was written. But "The Girl" books required those sex scenes for it to work. The stories in the books are intricate plots, a lot predicated on Lisbeth's hatred of the jackasses in whose custody she had to remain since she was underage and a "problem." Lisbeth herself was not amoral, or immoral; she was just sick and tired of the wrong people getting ahead and what she did to "right" things behind the scenes.

Don't bother with the movie if you think it will be too graphic for your taste, the book will suit you better.

I think they were well written and the translator did wonders to keep the spirit of the stories intact.

There are many posts in DU2 about "The Girl.." Maybe you could use the search engine over there and find what you need to know from other posters.



(110,159 posts)
8. this review is what i got from the series. tell them he is feminst
Wed Dec 14, 2011, 11:58 AM
Dec 2011

forget what your gut tells you, and society will see that we all follow.


Our Hero, Mikael Blomkvist, is what we might refer to as a “breast man”; when he is not hunting down depraved serial killers, he spends a lot of his time resting his head on the breasts of the lady he is sleeping with, kissing breasts, noting when ladies are not wearing bras, and commencing his sexual endeavors by “stretch[ing] out his hand to touch her breast.” Blomkvist comes into contact with a lot of breasts, because a lot of ladies want to sleep with him. At one point Blomkvist takes a time-out from his liaisons amoureuses to read the “sensational debut of a teenage feminist,” after which he wonders “whether he could be called a feminist if he wrote a novel about his own sex life in the voice of a high school student. Probably not.” Cute. (A not super-normatively-attractive middle-aged anti-fascist journalist writing a novel starring a “very good-looking” middle-aged anti-fascist journalist whom ladies line up to get breast-grabbed by does, apparently, get to be called feminist.)

And then, of course, there is feminist heroine Lisbeth Salander, the super hot (“with the right make-up her face could have put her on any billboard in the world”) damaged skinny white chick with a bunch of tattoos (“in spite of the tattoos and the pierced nose and eyebrows she was…well…attractive. It was inexplicable”) who kicks ass. Boy is that a new one in the universe: the super hot damaged skinny white chick with a bunch of tattoos who kicks ass. Lisbeth has a penchant for Doc Martens and body art (as we all know, an immediate indicator of profound emotional disturbance). She is, of course, the best computer hacker in Sweden, and she spends some time torturing the man who raped and tortured her. Also she hits a serial killer over the head with a golf club in an effort to save Blomkvist, with whom she has fallen in love despite her general inability to feel emotional connections with other people. That’s badassery for you. Despite these unassailable feminist credentials, Salander repeatedly describes herself, and is described by others, as a victim: “Bjurman had chosen her as a victim. That told her something about the way she was viewed by other people”; “…this was the natural order of things. As a girl she was legal prey”; “he had never been able to shake off the feeling that Lisbeth Salander was a perfect victim.”

So, feminist heroine? Maybe not so much. Salander reads more like masturbation fodder for dudes who want to pretend they aren’t sleazy; Tomb Raider for manarchists, if you will. She hates herself, she “look[s] fourteen,” and she has “high cheekbones that [give] her an almost Asian look.” I don’t even want to touch that last one, honestly, but I am not the first person to note that there are some especially inappropriate tropes of Asian ladies currently circulating in our culture, and they are not, shall we say, feminist. Reading Salander as a feminist icon for our times is a pretty challenging endeavor. About the best thing you can say about her is that, unlike Larsson’s other characters, she at least has some depth.

People who write about dead ladies make a shit-ton of money (see: Patterson, James; Cornwell, Patricia; Koontz, Dean; &c ad nauseum). Even more people want to read about dead ladies than want to write about them; which, as a lady, stresses me out. I like murder mysteries and I like thrillers. But I am getting fucking tired of those stories revolving solely around rape and torture. Packaging that nastiness up as feminist is icing on an ugly cake. There are men who hate women: I am aware of this. Anyone who has ever tried living as a woman is aware of this. I don’t need a ten-page explicit rape scene to bring this point home; I need only to leave my house.


(10,044 posts)
9. Read the book - the library has it
Wed Dec 14, 2011, 12:19 PM
Dec 2011

Make up your own mind. If I'd read this review before reading them I never would have.

This story could not have happened without these imperfect very human characters.


(17,272 posts)
23. I just finished reading the book, and mostly agree with that review.
Sat Jan 7, 2012, 02:40 PM
Jan 2012

It's engaging reading, but not particularly good, and left me feeling creeped out.

Funny, I had just read "Wind in the Willows" for either the first time in my life, or the first time I actually remember (hard to believe I didn't read it as a kid; I read it now as a try-out of Google Books on my Droid). I guess maybe the contrast was too much for me, lol. I think I'll go back to reading children's literature, if "The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo" is what passes for quality fiction these days.


(10,044 posts)
24. You're right, of course, but...
Sat Jan 7, 2012, 08:02 PM
Jan 2012

even tho it isn't great literature, it is good fiction. Those who liked the book liked Salander and felt sorry for her, and were happy when she got her revenge.

To tell the truth, I don't know when she got her final revenge - in the first, second or third book...Trouble is, I don't know how "Tattoo" ended. I went right into the next two books, "Fire," and "Hornet's Nest," and they blend into one story.

Even at the end of the 3rd book, she still loves Bloomkvist; it makes me sad for her. I will read the 4th if I live long enough. I'd like to see what the author had decided to do with the couple.

I like a book if I care about the characters, and these characters were complicated and talented people, likeable, not perfect, brought to life, and they stay with you..The reviewer's emotional outrage speaks for how well the characters and story were written. I think the author wanted people to be outraged by the treatment of women and he succeeded....

Three cheers for you for reading the book after having read the review. At least you made up your own mind and didn't let anyone decide for you.


(11,969 posts)
10. I could tolerate the dead chicks. What I couldn't take was the bad writing.
Wed Dec 14, 2011, 04:53 PM
Dec 2011

It's just that: BAD. WRITING. Full of telling, not showing. Full of mind-numbingly boring passages about Blomkvist drinking coffee, making sandwiches, and getting off on a variety of women, who all seem to fall in love with him, or into bed with him. I think the total was about three or four women in just the one book. Because he's so gosh-darn sexy in his oh-so-feminist way.

Don't trust my opinion? Ask just about any editor or published author. They'll all tell you how badly written this book is. The only saving grace is that Lisbeth is every man's fantasy of a hot chick who'll sleep with you and then kick your ass. Those piercings and tattoos are the author's way of clubbing you over the head with symbolism that she's cool.

It's a case of mass propaganda, that this book is as successful as it is. Same with Da Vinci Code, but at least that one had a fun little puzzle in it.



(110,159 posts)
11. i listened to NPR about this book about a yr ago. i heard the same about the writing.
Wed Dec 14, 2011, 05:06 PM
Dec 2011

they touched on the nonfeminist material a little, but they really addressed the writing. even the people that liked the book said the first 100 pages just boring.

i agree with your post.


(10,044 posts)
12. I never read a book without a few boring passages
Wed Dec 14, 2011, 06:51 PM
Dec 2011

Even the books I liked best. I think Pat Boone is boring.

Just think about Gingrich and his 3 wives or is it 4, getting converted, baptized, free of sin and running for president...presidents who had mistresses...the golfer (already forgot his name) who had a dozen affairs - and the women who enjoyed these affairs as much as the men. They are real.

The Girl With... is more true to life than the happy couple stories - in fact, when I read a book with a married cop or detective who loves his wife, I wish the author would do away with her (a fictional character) to make the book more interesting. Real rapists are just as ugly as depicted in the book, probably a lot worse.

I don't need a a critic to tell me about books that I liked. I am entitled to my opinion and it doesn't have to mirror theirs or anybody's. There's no law against bad taste.


(11,969 posts)
13. "a few boring passages" is absolutely OK in any book.
Wed Dec 14, 2011, 07:37 PM
Dec 2011

And it's good that people like the books they like. I think it's fine that readers like Twilight, too. Or Barbara Cartland. At least they're reading.

But to call Dragon Tattoo feminist literature is, um, trying too hard to defend one's adoration of this book. OK, so Lisbeth kicks butt. She's tattooed and pierced. She gets raped. Then she falls into bed with a guy because... exactly why, I don't know. Except that he seems to attract women like flies to honey, and we're supposed to think he's cool because he sleeps with THREE WOMEN in about three weeks. That's a male author's fantasy, about as adolescently mature as believing in James Bond.


(1,534 posts)
16. I guess it's a good thing...
Wed Dec 14, 2011, 11:59 PM
Dec 2011

... that most editors and published authors are not the ones responsible for deciding if people like a book.

As it happened, I wasn't particularly interested in the series before I read it, either. Fortunately, enough good reviews on here convinced me to give it a shot. I was pleasantly surprised - it was a good read.

Perhaps it's like cinema - I don't think I've ever enjoyed a movie that the reviewers loved. I've even walked out of several. If they universally hated it, though, I'm likely to watch it again.


(11,969 posts)
18. Actually, editors ARE responsible for deciding that
Thu Dec 15, 2011, 10:43 AM
Dec 2011

It's how traditionally published books get published. If you want a book free of editorial input or judgment, you can find plenty of them in the self-published Kindle store.

This book got famous after an amazing campaign in Sweden, where it was given out free to about a thousand people riding on the train. Brilliant marketing. Then the fact the author died and his estate was being battled over added to the buzz.

Sometimes, these blockbusters just happen, and editors everywhere are left scratching their heads and wondering how the CELESTINE PROPHECY stayed on the bestseller list for years. People LOVED the Celestine Prophecy, too.


(1,534 posts)
19. I agree that editors/publishers decide WHAT gets published...
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 08:08 AM
Dec 2011

... but after that point, it's up to common tastes, Oprah book clubs, and probably some random chance.

TGWTDT may only be mediocre, and perhaps there's not an editor or publisher out there who would recommend it, but the fact is that the story caught some wind and took off. I was prepared to not like it, and found just the opposite.


(2,376 posts)
25. dreadful book
Mon Jan 9, 2012, 11:53 AM
Jan 2012

I completely agree, but when I've said that out loud people look at me like I'm crazy. The book didn't even START until the third chapter. The protagonist is just flat. A stereotype of the over-sexed film noir goodguy detective. There are WAY too many characters. Writing is dull. It's just dreary.


(11,969 posts)
27. It's a good way to determine a person's reading tastes
Mon Jan 9, 2012, 01:58 PM
Jan 2012

If someone says they LOVED Dragon Tattoo, or that Da Vinci Code was "the MOST LITERARY novel they've ever read!" (often the same people swoon over both Tattoo and Da Vinci Code), it tells you something about them as readers.


(34,106 posts)
30. I thought it was a great read.
Thu Jan 12, 2012, 09:56 AM
Jan 2012

Last edited Thu Jan 12, 2012, 10:45 AM - Edit history (1)

But that doesn't mean I think it's the most literary novel I've ever read for god's sake. There is a lot of room between "it's a great read" and "it's the most literary novel I've ever read" don't you think?


(9,314 posts)
28. I've been considering getting this
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 02:44 PM
Jan 2012

book on my Kindle but no matter how good a story is if the writing is bad I just can't get into a book. You've given me something to consider.


(34,106 posts)
29. I don't know if that person has read the book, but I have.
Thu Jan 12, 2012, 09:54 AM
Jan 2012

The writing is definitely not bad. At all.


(9,314 posts)
31. Okay -
Thu Jan 12, 2012, 01:07 PM
Jan 2012

thanks very much for the reply. I'm always looking for new authors and good books since I read about 3 a week.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
14. Just curious. Have you read the book?
Wed Dec 14, 2011, 08:32 PM
Dec 2011

This review is so off the mark. Apart from being an excellent mystery/thriller, Larsson deals poignantly with many issues, first and foremost the abuse of women. Far from glorifying such abuse, Larssons female characters are strong, independent women who navigate successfully in a male dominated world. The Rejectionist seems to reject this, out of hand.


(10,044 posts)
17. Just saw Lisbeth, Rooney Mara
Thu Dec 15, 2011, 01:19 AM
Dec 2011

I can't believe how perfect she is for the part, and so is the Blomkvist character. Hollywood did something right.

She said the rape scene had to be perfect because it "drives the trilogy." It had to be as brutal as in the book to explain the hatred of Lisbeth towards him who raped and persecuted her and those who allowed it.

If I go to see the movie, I'll go to the restroom once the rape starts. Am more interested in her memory and computer and detective skills, as well as her relationships with people she liked.

And I think Larsson is pro-women because he exposes how brutally and chauvinistically (SOME, not all) men treat women. Showing was not approving.

I'll bet, in the movie, when Lisbeth ties him up and gets her revenge, the audience will cheer loudly...


(34,106 posts)
22. GREAT book, just finished it. I enjoyed it
Thu Jan 5, 2012, 02:23 PM
Jan 2012

although there a few violent scenes, they aren't glorified in any way. The mystery itself in the book is engaging enough. There are some interesting sub-plots and I will probably go on to read the next 2 in the triology.

Plus I think I will go see the movie too; it's playing right now and getting fairly good reviews.

Response to fadedrose (Original post)

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