Spin Off: I don't understand why folks question dedication to the Clinton's

[JustAnotherGen]

Posted in the African American Group


I don't understand why someone would contemplate the question.

I don't understand why it even matters.

I don't understand why black people at DU are expected to answer this question over and over and over again.


I don't understand why the Af Am Group is always being 'ordered' to provide links by people who never post back here.

I don't understand how people could be at DU for more than a decade and their first post in this group is because we are misunderstood.

I don't understand why endorsements are so HUGE to non black Voters? Why is that? They need someone to think for them? Give them validation?


I don't understand why people don't understand that I don't understand.


Discuss. May we keep this thread kicked up so we can avoid having this same broken record posted in the African American group over and over again until the Convention.

[NOLALady]

1. Kick!

[leftofcool]

2. I know, I know! Pick me!

There is a small contingent of certain supporters here on DU that really believe those of us who support Hillary are either misinformed, have Stockholm Syndrome or are low information voters. This is more apparent in the AA group because they honestly believe that because Bernie was arrested at a sit in, AA's owe him the vote.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

14. "...because Bernie was arrested at a sit in, AA's owe him the vote"...

BRILLIANT, my friend, simply BRILLIANT!!

[zappaman]

55. +1000 n/t

[Jarqui]

77. "they honestly believe that because Bernie was arrested at a sit in, AA's owe him the vote."

I don't think that's fair. Exception maybe but not the rule.

I suspect the majority of Sanders supporters would think (rightly so) that AA's owe Sanders nothing.

In my opinion, Sanders has been a better supporter of AA's than he's been given credit for in the media. It's blurred because he moved to a state for cheap land that was predominantly white so there were not many black issues in that state for a local politician. And blurred because he's also been supportive of other minorities or gays or women for their civil rights or causes. And he's been particularly supportive of those of any race having a tough time economically.

He's a good, honest man still fighting for what he's believed in for a long time.

He'd probably be the first to tell you AA's don't owe him a vote.

I think he would have really appreciated a better chance to earn AA's support. He's has a better case than he's given credit for. For whatever reason, he was rapidly dismissed and unfortunately, it just isn't in the cards.

[greatauntoftriplets]

103. Nailed it.

[grasswire]

3. Did you happen to read the OP today about...

....how the Clintons and John Kasich collaborated to bring about Welfare Reform in the 1990s? And how Hillary called single moms with hungry children "deadbeats"? And how that law doubled the misery of poverty for the millions of poor people on assistance?

I won't post another time here.

I just hope you can understand why people can't see how those most hurt over the years by the Clintons can support them.

Forgive me for this intrusion, but I wanted to try to answer your question.

[JustAnotherGen]

5. Today

Yesterday.
The day before yesterday.
Sunday.
Saturday.

BTW - I came from an affluent family yet was still picked on in college (during the 1990s) with the assumption that I was there taking money from white people and that I didn't have the grades to get in. In fact - I earned a University President Academic Scholarship and other than that paid full tuition. And I wasn't eligible for student loans until they came out with the unsubsidized stafford.

Have you ever read about how the Republicans came to power in 1994?

It was because they deliberately demonized young black women.

And you people think I'd ever vote Republican or NOT vote for Clinton if she is the nominee?

After they blamed every single ill in America on us?

I was 21 in 1994 and it was fucking hell and no one came to my rescue - except for my father. Who is the only person in America who ever admitted for voting for Nixon.

I didn't owe you that explanation -

But since you insinuated I hadn't seen the 50 or so posts on this (at least if seems that way - maybe they are just 900 response threads like that one calling out Steven Leser) I thought I'd 'school you' on this.

BTW - I STILL refuse to vote in the NJ Primary because I can't vote for O'Malley.

Clinton would be the better steward of the Environment than Sanders.
Sanders would be the better steward of getting Glass Steagall re-implemented.

Still - O'Malley is a great man with excellent executive leadership skills and he cleaned up Baltimore as much as he could before ascending to the role of Governor. Until one of them can show me point for point they did everything O'Malley did (neither can as neither was ever Governor of their state) then I'm not voting in the Primary.


Shocker - nothing is gained or lost by a black woman sitting out of a Primary.

Nothing.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

16. "Shocker - nothing is gained or lost by a black woman sitting out of a Primary."

We've already discussed this, so you know where I stand.

O'Malley was a great governor of this great state. If he's still on the ballot, my vote may go to him on April 26th.

I also found out today, to my shock, that Donna Edwards has endorsed Hillary Clinton. I'm shocked because as the more liberal candidate, I just knew that she would join her progressive comrades in the Progressive Caucus and support Bernie. But she didn't. And that tells me something: We must stop putting black people in a box. This is something that white liberals cannot and refuse to accept. But I believe that they are in for a rude awakening in the coming weeks. You cannot continue to harass, insult, and belittle black voters.

(By the way, our stories sound eerily similar. I, too, was an outstanding student only to be thought of by the so-called white liberals as a less than intelligent, "affirmative action" kid.)

Also, most, if not all, members of the CBC supported the welfare reform law in the 90s. I know plenty of black people who think as HRC does. In fact, my work at HUD with low-income people tells the same story: they are even more likely to ridicule people on public assistance, even when they themselves are on public assistance. Imagine that.

And my Dad admitted years ago his support for Ronald Reagan. He said that he regretted it for many years, but he was inspired by the "individualist" paradigm that the Republicans were bringing. It's so odd because at that time, my Dad was a professor, teaching at a prominent dental school, and despite his credentials and all his successes, he was denied tenure. The racism he faced was incredible; the whites didn't treat him as an individual; it was quite the opposite. But I guess the "welfare queen" meme from that era attracted him. I saw it with a lot of well-to-do, successful blacks. Reaganism seemed like an attractive alternative to "we're all in this together".

Now Dad is now probably more liberal than I am...and that's LIBERAL!

But I'm like ya'll. I'm tired of recounting my story over and over again because some white liberals on a discussion forum demand an answer. They don't deserve an answer unless we choose to give it to them.

So it's a good idea that if they want to know our varying perspectives on this election--that some of us are Bernie fans, some are HRC fans, and some are neutral or other--then perhaps this thread needs to stay kicked up. We can direct them here.

[JustAnotherGen]

35. By 1972

My mom and her family made him get right with himself.

There were only two disagreements between her father and my dad -

Yankees v Dodgers

Republicans v Democratic

Yeah - he married her in 1969 and she turned him!

His father though - voted for LBJ in 1964 and Carter in 1976.

My grand daddy was under the impression that Nixon had a super secret method to get us out of the Vietnam war. My dad believed it too.

Totallly, totally not true!

[Uponthegears]

21. And this is why I'm here

Like I explained in another post, I left home in Texas after I graduated from high school, and moved to San Francisco to join with the BPP. I had my dad's blessing on that, for a little while. After Oakland, my dad made me come back home and go to college. He wasn't someone to argue with. We had some money for that and my dad was just fed up with the racism in Texas of the late 60's/early 70's, so I ended up overseas for college. I came back, went to law school and spent the next 30+ years doing capital cases and prisoner civil rights litigation.

I wanted to say that I didn't owe anyone that explanation, but in my case, I think I do. I'm not a long-time group member. I can't point to my history at DU. I never do OPs. I don't do real names. I have s*** to lose. I have a pretty hard time when anyone tells me what candidate A or candidate B will do for me when the institutions they want to lead are still waging war on us. Accordingly, I have a pretty short fuse (and as I was taught the other day, sometimes a pretty unfair fuse) when I think that is what is happening.

I support Sanders because of his lean toward socialism, not because I think he speaks for, or even to, people like me. If I didn't, I wouldn't be voting in the primary either. And, no shocker here, like you, where I am, no one would miss one old Black man sitting that one out. Come time for the GE, I would vote for Satan if he had a (D) behind his name.

There, that's me, done . . .

[JustAnotherGen]

23. This right here

We had some money for that and my dad was just fed up with the racism in Texas of the late 60's/early 70's, so I ended up overseas for college. I came back, went to law school and spent the next 30+ years doing capital cases and prisoner civil rights litigation.

My dad's older brother my grandfather called in a favor to get him a job in UK.

Younger brother did not have to go - finished at Morehouse and my grandfather pulled another favor to get him a job in France.

My dad an Green Beret before (Army Captain) and we had the good fortune of living abroad in my early years )born in West Germany.

Good, bad, indifferent - I'm glad you had your father. He was able to put the oxygen mask on his child and GET HIM SAFE.

I'm glad he gave you us.

[Uponthegears]

32. Thank you

and thank you on behalf of my dad. He was always talking about how proud he was. Just before he died, he took me by the hand and told me I had finished his life. I tried to live up to that. I'm not sure I did, but I tried.

[JustAnotherGen]

38. Your welcome

I wrote this about my dad a few months before he died - May 24, 2011.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/JustAnotherGen/29

[Uponthegears]

56. That is beautiful

When I think about the people who came through that time, I remember that words like courage strength and accomplishment are all relative. Your dad's story is pure inspiration.

[Number23]

44. "Just before he died, he took me by the hand and told me I had finished his life."

Good God, what a powerful thing to say. Your father sounds like one hell of an individual.

[1StrongBlackMan]

26. Thank you for this ...

I can fully get behind what you are saying, especially:

I support Sanders because of his lean toward socialism, not because I think he speaks for, or even to, people like me. If I didn't, I wouldn't be voting in the primary either. And, no shocker here, like you, where I am, no one would miss one old Black man sitting that one out. Come time for the GE, I would vote for Satan if he had a (D) behind his name.

I think we (the PoC members of the AA group) are closer than it appears.

[Uponthegears]

34. As we should be

[1StrongBlackMan]

37. And what, other folks don't/can't understand. eom

[Uponthegears]

54. Better you

than I try to explain that. I just end up getting in a fight.

[1StrongBlackMan]

59. LOL ... You get in fights, I get hides ...

Suffice it to say, if your political choice is different from my political choice, that doesn't mean we are enemies or even on the same team!

As John Lewis and Rev. Harold Middlebrook remain on the same side; but, incurs this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1324316

[Uponthegears]

60. I was going to say

"We're doomed," but realized the more appropriate action is "They're doomed."

Just do not get it.

[1StrongBlackMan]

61. While the latter is true, so is the former ...

we, REALLY, are on the same ship ... and not just as disposable cargo.

[Uponthegears]

63. THAT

is as accurate an image as is possible.

[1StrongBlackMan]

64. In this cycle, we ...

are used to plug holes and provide ballast. And they don't think we don't know!

BTW, did you know Spike Lee is a "Black Public Intellectual"? ... Today?

I wonder if he would be a "public intellectual", if he weren't 1) a Bernie endorser; and, 2) Black? Or, or would he continue to be the weird glasses wearing, court side sitting harasser of anti-Knicks?

[Uponthegears]

67. Maybe they can just

put us on a scale and weigh us? That's about how meaningful these adjectives are and it fits in better from a historical perspective.

I guess we count more with an adjective.

I'm going back to "We're doomed."

[wildeyed]

73. I got bingo on that one!

Just off the article

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[greatauntoftriplets]

104. LMAO!

[radical noodle]

6. Here we go...

[JustAnotherGen]

8. Nope - I think I shut it down pretty succinctly

I'm not voting in the Primary this June.

I'm not.

It's still a matter of principle but in a few more weeks it's going to be just to quietly tell people to 'shove off' - I won't be bullied or MANIPULATED by anyone.

[radical noodle]

11. Yep

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

17. It's taken you that long, huh? LOL! I'm surprised I'm still here.

[JustAnotherGen]

18. Eh?

They pretty much left us O'Malley supporters alone.

We were quiet and small - but passionate.

How the hell am I supposed to transfer that passion to two people who I truly believe have zero idea how to monetize a green energy America? You show Republicans the lobbyists and payola they can take - and they will get onboard FFS. It's that simple.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

20. I'm with you 100%. And as you can see, I have no patience for the black Bernie Sanders fans either.

There, I said it.

[Number23]

43. Anybody else find it interesting that it seems like the VAST majority of O'Malley supporters here

are now going for Clinton???

[JustAnotherGen]

49. I think it is split

Three ways - a few pms from others who are meh about their primary too. Then there are the rapscallions who are still voting for him!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

88. Not this chick. :)

[Number23]

94. I never knew you were supporting O'Malley! I thought you were still working through this

less than inspiring group of candidates.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

95. I was leaning O'Malley. I just didn't think he was a great candidate, sadly. But if I had to

choose between him, Hillary and Bernie, I'd choose him.

We have a dismal group of candidates this time around, and I'm not alone in that sentiment. Look at how low the voter turnout is on our side? Pathetic!

[greatauntoftriplets]

105. Too bad you're not in Illinois.

He's still on the ballot here for the March 15 primary.

[JustAnotherGen]

28. Here's another one - just posted

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511328830

[LanternWaste]

42. Never argue with anyone who thinks we're being poisoned by fluoride

Never argue with anyone who thinks we're being poisoned by fluoride, tv is mind control, Big Pharma is inventing new diseases, and chemtrails.

[wildeyed]

70. Words to live by....

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

89. ...and don't forget, GMOs and vaccinations (the most irresponsible tripe ever!)...

[JustAnotherGen]

93. But does he breastfeed at Olive Garden

[randys1]

47. GDP, too bad. I cant post anything but cake recipes in GDP without getting a hide.

[NaturalHigh]

48. BS. You post in there all the time.

Your self-pity routine is getting old.

[JustAnotherGen]

50. Natural High

Go. You are not welcome in this Group.

For the other hosts in case of delete:

Disruptive
Intrusive
Not exactly polite

NaturalHigh (11,858 posts)
48. BS. You post in there all the time.

Your self-pity routine is getting old.

[randys1]

53. ...

[wildeyed]

71. That IS a great song.

[GoneFishin]

4. I can only speak for myself. But I think people should vote for whoever they believe represents them

But the bottom line is that people should vote for whoever they want to. It doesn't matter why.

I don't like to be told that I am supporting the wrong person either.

[JustAnotherGen]

7. Thank you

And you don't owe anyone ANY explanations.

It is YOUR vote!

[GoneFishin]

81. I am not pretending that I can't be argumentative if that door is opened. But if someone just likes

a candidate and they have their mind made up, and they allow me to do the same, I am totally ok with that.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

22. Or, not vote at all if no major candidate moves them. I very much appreciate this sentiment.

Now you know how frustrating it is to be in this position. I want to tell them badly to fuck off.

Have you ever met people who keep their vote close to their heart? They take great offense when you ask who they're voting for. They say "none of your business". I may take the same route....it's none of your fucking business.

Yeah! I like the way that sounds.

[lovemydog]

84. I'm like that when someone asks 'how much did you pay for that?'

The question makes me uncomfortable. It just seems rude. Sometimes I'll reply 'One million dollars!' just for the heck of it.

[Digital Puppy]

80. +1000!!

[randys1]

9. Yes you do. By the way, recent behavour of the SC is the final straw for anyone who

EVER says they CANT vote for Hillary, if it comes down to her being the nominee.

Anyone who follows thru with that threat is either not a liberal in the first place, i.e. liar, or they are the most selfish person I have met, or not met.

Really amazing that this is still discussed here.

[Kind of Blue]

10. Kick!

One of the first things I said returning to this group after many years is they're just now starting to study us. We've been studying them for years and I, for one, have been waiting for this to happen in my lifetime. The beauty part is that we just point them right back to themselves for further exploration for the bounty of information out there.

We had to learn just to exist without harm on many levels. They now have to learn just to understand. It's only the beginning of sensitizing - again.

[ismnotwasm]

12. K&R

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

13. I don't understand why our cries against racism were never heard in 2008 and beyond...

Last edited Wed Feb 24, 2016, 03:21 PM - Edit history (1)

...and every time something racist happens, we're told to provide proof or shut up.

But when it comes to the primaries and rooting for Sanders, suddenly Hillary Clinton's racism matters. Suddenly DU gives a shit about the plight of black America...because...their candidate claims to be a Civil Rights activist.

Suddenly when we speak out against racism, only as it pertains to said candidate are those concerns heard or taken seriously.

I understand very much.

I understand that people are full of shit with their political agendas.

Once Sanders is off the scene or HRC is no longer in politics, it'll be back to the shame bullshit as usual---no one giving a shit about POC.

[Number23]

45. I've been saying that same thing for months. That the folks screaming the loudest about Hillary's

racism in 2008 are the EXACT SAME PEOPLE burning 1000 calories trying to keep black folks from talking about Sanders' racism/tone deafness in 2015.

Do they seriously think that no one sees them and what they're trying to do?

[JI7]

58. It's the same ones who kept pushing "class not race"

on people of color. And this goes back long before this election and sanders.

But NOW they say there IS racism and it's all because of ClinTon's.

And people who cheered on the first and only black president being called a piece of shit are now outraged over 2008 attacks on him.

[Number23]

85. You need to make this point a freaking OP here

And people who cheered on the first and only black president being called a piece of shit are now outraged over 2008 attacks on him.

'Cause if THAT doesn't describe the two faced, lying hypocrisy of too much of the crap that goes aon around here I don't know what does.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

91. That brings me to Michael Moore's racist insult that Obama will only be known as the first

black president. We called out his racism and were told to sit down and shut up.

Now MM is hanging out with Sanders feigning about how much he cares for black America? BULLSHIT!

The white liberals have been the absolute worst! I've never seen anything like it. Even back in 2008 with the HRC supporters. Yes, they were bad. They were really bad, in fact. But these Sanders fanatics? They take the hate to a whole new level.

[Number23]

96. There's hypocrisy and then there's the shit that goes on around here

I never seen anything like it either.

Any anyone that can watch this shit going on and deny that racism afflicts the Democratic party EVERY BIT AS MUCH as the Republican party is blind, full of shit or both.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

90. Outstanding point!!!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

78. Like I said, they're full of shit.

[Quayblue]

62. +1000 nt

[NuclearDem]

15. This really annoys me about a lot of my fellow white liberals.

For all the catastrophizing associated with not getting their chosen candidate nominated and elected, it ultimately doesn't affect us in the same way it affects non-whites.

Our voting rights haven't been gutted and barely protected by virtue of an aggressive Attorney General taking states to task. Our marriage rights don't hang in the balance of a Supreme Court decision. Our religious/spiritual practices aren't going to get us rounded up and registered in a database. Our families aren't being ripped apart by Immigration, and our children aren't being slaughtered without consequence by municipal law enforcement officers.

What a lot of white liberals don't understand is that black, Latino, and other minority voters have very rarely had the luxury of casting anything other than a defensive vote when it comes to national elections. White liberals can afford to throw a tantrum vote in November if their candidate doesn't get the nomination, because they don't have anywhere near as much to lose.

It's privilege, plain and simple. My fellow white liberals would understand all of this if they did something truly revolutionary and just shut up and listened.

[JustAnotherGen]

19. You - you are not ALLOWED to shut up!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

25. Brilliant commentary! But I expected as much coming from an O'Malley supporter. ;)

[forjusticethunders]

27. I completely understand the need for defensive voting

That's why it annoys me why a lot of people "on my side" (I support Sanders) on the primaries don't even want to try to understand why POC support the establishment candidates and don't want to make a lot of waves and even sometimes support (at least tacitly) policies that "work against them" because POC feel that they can't afford not to. Even though I disagree with the defensive voting strategy, one can disagree without condescending.

Surviving in a country built, economically, legally, and morally, on slavery requires compromises, even disagreeable ones. Even if you disagree with said compromises, the first step in a dialogue is to understand why those compromises are being made.

[1StrongBlackMan]

30. Please stop promoting this "establishment"/"anti-establishment BS ...

There is NO world where a career politician ... Mayor of a City - "establishment" post ... Member of "the 435" - "establishment" post (congress) ... Member of "the 100" - "establishment" post (Senate) ... and now, seeking the top "establishment" post in America, is somehow, anti-establishment.

Please stop.

[forjusticethunders]

36. I consder "establishment" to be broader

than how long one has been in various offices. Sanders promotes ideas and policies that are considerably to the left of the current American mainstream, while having almost no nationwide recognition compared to most candidates in the mix for president.

By your criterion, Trump is the only non-establishment candidate in the race, despite being a billionaire who profits off our current system.

[1StrongBlackMan]

39. Exactly ... trump is the only non-establishment candidate in the race. eom.

[forjusticethunders]

40. Trump might be outside of the political establishment

but he sure isn't outside of the ECONOMIC establishment.

[1StrongBlackMan]

29. I endorse this message! ... Well Stated. The only thing missing ...

is the unending "I'm the victim here" cries.

I know this is going to piss folks off; but, let's suppose Bernie is able to accomplish everything in his platform ... how will it alleviate any of the anger that white liberals feel?

There will still be rich folks, and therefore, folks with undue influence ... there will still be poor folks, and therefore, folks with less influence ... poor folks won't become rich folks, and rich folks won't become poor folks.

[Kind of Blue]

41. Wow, "White liberals can afford to throw a tantrum vote in November if

their candidate doesn't get the nomination, because they don't have anywhere near as much to lose."

Thanks for that. I just want to add, or an alternative. I mean, I've watched my white BIL's over the years and they just vote Democratic or Republican however they please. They see themselves as Independents but strongly lean Republican. Their choices are always clear and always there, not much thinking necessary.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

92. Same here. The white so-called Independents (read: Republicans) can afford to vote on single issues

at the expense of others or the entire platform. They also can afford to vote their conscience. But as I've been arguing for a long time now, black voters have always voted strategically--meaning that much of our voting behavior is about how to beat the Republican, even though the Democrat running isn't great, either.

A perfect example in my great State of Maryland:

In 2006, black voters here had a choice between a civil rights icon, former NAACP president, and great congressman, Kwesi Mfume and a white, fairly liberal Jewish man with little political experience--Ben Cardin. I'll never forget, black folk were all for Mfume initially. We knew him. We loved him. He delivered for Baltimore and did an o.k. job at the NAACP. Yes, he was flawed. In fact, he was very flawed, but that didn't matter.

So, Cardin was an unknown; he was considered the underdog. However, when I confronted him at a local Fall Festival event and asked him how he could beat Mfume, he came up with specific policy proposals. No bullshit. No trying to bring up "black issues" or talk down to me like I'm some idiot. I am well informed. In fact, I am a political junkie, apart from my training as a political scientist. I told him that I would only vote for him if he could beat the Republican (Mike Steele...yes, that Mike Steele!). He reassured me that he could. And that was that. Maryland's largest, most populous and diverse counties--Montgomery (where I live) and Prince George's County--and Baltimore City--all went overwhelmingly for Ben Cardin. These areas contain the largest black population--and went overwhelmingly for Ben Cardin over Kwesi Mfume.

So, to suggest that black people only support black candidates; to suggest that they may have an issue with Sanders' religion; to suggest that they just vote for the most known candidate---all of these assumptions are bullshit!

We are and have always been strategic voters. The Mfume-Cardin race is one case in point. When Cardin had to go up against Mike Steele, the choice was clear.

Black voters have always voted strategically. And this is what many Sanders supporters cannot accept. It's not that Hillary Clinton is a perfect candidate in every single way. She's not. But if people believe that she can win, that's what they believe and I can't fault them for it.

Black voters have always voted strategically. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

[Kind of Blue]

99. Yes, I was rooting for Cardin waay over here,

having moved from Maryland about 8 years before, hailing from Montgomery County

I had my suspiscions back in high school - that Steele was highly, highly suspect. He went to one of our "brother schools" and just a few years older. I couldn't stand him then and wasn't surprised he was a Republican - I knew it! but couldn't put my finger on what it was then. Just a particular disdain he wore that was so smarmy to me and then a Flash! and pretense of being a sweetheart. Think Eddie Haskel.

Oh, LS71, that would have been a no-brainer for me had I still been there. Cardin's upright and unhesistated answer should be the status quo for anyone wishing to lead a diverse population. He IS a perfect example of how we vote.

Now you got me all nostalgic, I wonder if the cherry blossoms are in bloom yet. I doubt it. Lived on a street with so many that just taking a walk was like being in heaven.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

100. Cherry blossoms won't be here until late March, early April, hopefully. For some reason,

they haven't stayed around long in previous years.

The Fall Festival that I was referring to was the Takoma Park Fall Festival. If you've ever been, it's a treat.

Oddly enough, I ran into Senator Cardin a few years back when he was campaigning for Barbara Boxer in San Diego. I walked up to him and jokingly asked if he was abandoning Maryland for California now. He just laughed and told me why he was there.

Kwesi is a great man, too. He's still active in certain political circles and doing well.

Finally, on Steele. He's a disgusting jerk. If you remember one of his enduring lies, his claim that Howard University students pelted him with Oreo cookies. He has repeated this lie for years now, even though the cleaning staff never saw Oreos on the floor of the venue and the media that was present never saw anything being thrown at Steele. It's a particularly fucked up lie that has dodged him for years and has angered AAs here.

[Kind of Blue]

106. Oh yeah, Takoma Park.

This weekend, step-son drops by and talked about the movie, Creed. And we laughed about how Stallone is going to milk the franchise even from beyond. Son proceeded excitedly to tell me he's from Maryland! Then told him exactly where, Takoma Park. Best jazz in town, including D.C., at Takoma Station, as we used to call it back in the '90s. Never knew who would drop in while on concert tours in the area and their house band, Donald Byrd's old group, The Blackbyrds, drew the crowd in. I did attend one Festival as a teen and loved it, first time I had my face painted - blue with daisies

Another connection, San Diego, is where I am now and running into Senator Boxer. We were passing each other by on the street and she smiled so warmly. I was like what a sweetheart. OMG, I realized in the hustle bustle, that's Sen. Boxer. Shouted, Love You, Senator. She turned around waved and laughed.

She's not the only one I've seen here walking around, not necessarily doing anything. That's how it's done, engagement on every level. Unfortunately now I'm in Issa territory. Fuck. But it's a diverse areas and I've met nothing but cool people in this part of the county.

I can't even think of Steele without a snarl creeping on my face.

[randys1]

108. I envy you right now, both meeting Barbara and where you are.

[Kind of Blue]

109. Oh, it's fun running into them. The first one

was Rep. Davis...My God, I was like why is this lady with the HUGH, I mean huge, hair all dressed up, walking down the street smiling at everyone I did thank her for all her good work though I was stunned by the kind of vacant smile. At least she's out there, unafraid mingling with her constituents on a regular basis. I like that.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

111. So cool! Takoma Station is still pretty nice. I'm a HUGE Donald Byrd fan and grew up listening

Last edited Sat Feb 27, 2016, 04:47 AM - Edit history (1)

to his music. He was still teaching Jazz at Howard University when he passed away. I don't know how many Blackbyrds are still around but the music never gets tired.

Boxer seems so nice. I'm a little shocked that she has retired but I'm hoping that Kamala takes her place easily.

[Kind of Blue]

112. Yes, M'am! Kamala!

I'd love to see her, too, down here wandering the streets of SD.

Couldn't decide between Rock Creek Park, Walking in Rhythm or Flight Time. Chose the last one to send for a weekend of peace and balance.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

113. I need this in my life right now...

And two of my favorites:

Places and Places:

(Falling Like) Dominoes:

[Kind of Blue]

114. Oh yes, Mama! Thank You!

[OneGrassRoot]

115. EXCELLENT post!!!

I completely agree.

Along the same lines, I've noticed that the contingent who tell people they're idiots for voting AT ALL -- that voting just perpetuates the system, which is broken -- are often white men.

The group of people, in general, who have never had to fight (and die) for the right to vote.

[brer cat]

24. K&R

[rbrnmw]

31. kick

[Coolest Ranger]

33. Here's one thing I don't understand

why can they answer simple questions about what their candidate will do for our people?

[JI7]

46. I'm voting Sanders but I'm so turned off and disgusted with the ignorance

These people do not know or care about race issues and especially black experience and history.

That bill Clinton who only became president in 1993 is responsible for the problems the black community faces in this country just does a lack of any knowledge of black life in the US.

[1StrongBlackMan]

69. I would be okay with it,if it was IGNORANCE ...

that can be cured ... but, for those we are discussing, it is not.

[Digital Puppy]

79. Careful, now....

...you are treading dangerously close to the truth!

[Starry Messenger]

51. I don't have anything brilliant to say

I just wanted to appreciate this thread and this group.

I think Black people should vote for whoever they want to and this country would be a better place if more people listened to Black people.

[betsuni]

52. K&R

[FrenchieCat]

57. Sanders supporters just don't want to "understand".....

they just want our vote.

They'll do whatever it takes, and as times runs out,
it gonna get worse before it gets better, IMO.

As stated in the thread which prompted this one.....

Here's why I think Sanders has not even a Clue.....
today's he pointing the finger at Bill Clinton in reference to Welfare reform...
without any context to it at all! It's like Sanders think if he promises "stuff"....
cause Clinton took away our stuff (welfare).....
when in reality so many more White people took advantage of Welfare,
but it was the African-Americans who were left with the stereotype,
that is still with us today!

Amazingly Clueless approach on the part of Sanders, IMO!

As written in this piece that anyone can read when asking context as to why
a majority of AAs give the face palm to Bernie Sanders, especially older Americans
who seen it all play out before like one continuous loop!

This term “Political Revolution”, for some of us who have lived that long, harken back to the days of the 1960’s “War on Poverty”. It is a war that we are still fighting today, and in so doing, we are also forced to fight race based stereotypes it put upon us, which have stubbornly lasted to our detriment since. It is the tried and untrue slur of how people of color always seem to want something without working for it, aka, something for nothing. The War on Poverty, while perhaps well-meaning in its intent, left an ugly-spirited stain upon, that we have been trying to wash out ever since. The whole racist connotation of the “Welfare Queen” has, in fact, won many elections, year after year. It is a legacy that may have hurt us more as an entire race of people, than the benevolent benefits it ever intended.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/118739074

[lovemydog]

65. It's infantile, patronizing bullshit.

Sometimes I feel like starting a bunch of threads in GD: P like:

'Why do white people vote for Republicans?'

'Why does any white person vote different from me?' or

'Why did white people start the holocaust?'

But I don't, because I'm not a doofus.

[JustAnotherGen]

75. Don't do it!

You and another person are cracking me up. But no good will come of that!

[lovemydog]

83. I won't.

I laugh to keep from crying. I'm glad you find the humor in it too. Here's a few more:

'Why did white people make Deadpool and why didn't I like it?'

'Dear white people: what's up with all the farmer's markets?'

'Do most white folks still wear pointy hoods or is that out of style now?'

[Number23]

97. Only minorities get to be "analyzed" by race. "Why do white people....?" questions will always end

up with unrelenting screams of "reverse racism" by the same folks that spend countless hours "diagnosing" black people -- usually without having actually spoken to any.

I'd love a "why are white people supporting Trump?" question. But it won't get asked because we know that it will also inadvertently answer why alot of white people are supporting... other people.

[lovemydog]

98. It's infuriating & as you say unrelenting.

I'd like to think others read entire threads and hopefully become less patronizing. But it's like playing whack-a-mole. You correct one by saying not all people think alike and then another comes along with similar demands.

The question 'why are white people supporting Trump' is an interesting one. Scapegoating seems to be a pastime for many white people.

[EffieBlack]

66. White privilege

Two of the basic tenets of white privilege are 1) feeling completely entitled not only to assume that the opinion of white people is, by default, correct and, therefore anyone who disagrees with them must be wrong, and 2) feeling completely entitled to demand that black people explain themselves to white people whenever #1 comes into play.

[lovemydog]

68. I agree.

It's entirely evident with some (not all!) self-described 'sanders supporters.'

[FrenchieCat]

72. I wrote the OP at the link.....

after reading this,
and watching Sanders on TV
do "his" clueless thing! http://www.democraticunderground.com/118742421

[wildeyed]

74. I trash those now.

They come for attention. No one owes them that or anything. You and the other hosts have been more than patient.

[giftedgirl77]

76. I tried to explain to someone earlier how condescending it was

to be lectured constantly about how terrible HRC is & why the decision to support her is soooooo wrong. I was told I was trying to censor them. It's obnoxious & at times feels very surreal.

[wildeyed]

82. Because the black vote is so powerful

this year? Looks like it will swing the Dem nomination. It has been important to Dems in the GE since after Voting Rights, but it is getting close to the time when we don't need the white swing voters to beat the ex-Dixiecrats anymore. The balance is beginning to shift.

I am just talking out loud.... but it kind of make sense.

So some of it may be rage as they watch their privilege melt away. To me, that also indicates a lack of self-confidence in their ability to negotiate the change, and a lack of optimism too. They are afraid, I think.

And then there is a simple lack of courtesy and common sense. When someone tells me they have decide already or they don't wish to say who they will vote for... well there it is. The polite thing to do is to accept that answer. And the worst thing to do is to attack the person, their candidate or their sanity (duh).

Much of it is a simple issue of manners, IMO. When you are white, it is hard not to be clueless about certain aspects of race and culture, even if you mean well. But it is easy to be polite. And being polite involves listening when others talk, at least part of the time, particularly if you are new and not the expert on the issues being discussed.

This is a group dedicated to the discussion of African American Issues. And of course the primary has a place in that discussion. But if that is the ONLY thing you want to discuss, you have not been here before to talk about other things, and particularly if you are white, then, I dunno, but that just seems rude to me.

It is funny too, about who the regulars in this forum are actually voting for. I am not that concerned one way or the other, but my impression is that is VERY split. There is plenty nasty said about Clinton too. But when people come screaming in here to defend St. Sanders from some real or imagined slight, they just multiply the number of negative posts about him. Oh well. That is the common sense part, or lack there of....

[Chitown Kev]

86. I just don't understand...

[The Polack MSgt]

87. K&R

Nothing to add - except my support

[Zen Democrat]

101. It's because the Clinton's have not held up well over the years.

Turns out they were more Republican Lite than Democratic during Bill's presidential years.

I'll probably never forgive Bill and Hillary for their smears of Barack Obama in 2008. I knew Hillary supporters who refused to vote for Obama in the general. Obama bought her off with the Sec of State position, even though everyone knew it should be going to John Kerry. I think I've finally and properly identified the Clintons as Takers. Takers who keep score when people owe them. They certainly aren't numbered among those who forgive.

The Welfare Reform Act of 1996 continues to cause pain today for the poor, working or not. It was a real bad election year deal that Bill struck with the GOP. We need welfare reform from The Clinton/Gingrich plan. We're not supposed to be country where a person can work 40 hours a week and not make enough to live on -- what an indictment of capitalism.

Yes, I'm stronger for Bernie every day. He's a good man, with a big heart and an expansive outlook. He's not out to get rich, he's the tried and true genuine article.

And his judgment on foreign policy has been far superior to Hillary's.

[JustAnotherGen]

102. Nice post

But it doesn't address my question - at all.

This has nothing to do with Senator Sanders. He's not the topic.

You didn't answer why people don't understand. There's so much hand wringing going on.

[Basement Beat]

107. As a person that will vote Sanders in the primary...

and a Black man - It also frustrates me to no end that so called fellow liberals/progressives/whatever is frothy at the mouth at trying to get others to vote their way or not. Its an issue that we tend to face with any and all topics. "Explain yourself! Why aren't you following my lead! You need to get more educated! Let me 'adopt' you and and fill you in!"

The energy from those sides just have privilege written all over it.

[JustAnotherGen]

110. Amen!

[OneGrassRoot]

116. ^^^ word. n/t