African American
Related: About this forumCross Post from GDP: What issues, specifically, would end racism in the US?
Hi all, first post in the AA group. Let's just get this out of the way. I'm a white male from New England who supports Bernie. That said, there's obviously a disconnect between Bernie's platform and the AA community so I thought I'd ask all of you a couple questions in hopes of making some inroads. Here's what I posted in GDP:
I ask this question in all seriousness without any malice.
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Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)
Lisa D This message was self-deleted by its author.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)I have two grand daughters, one Black and one White. Both are 4.0 students, both bright, well groomed, happy, delightful etc... Both are college bound and both love to spend my money at the Mall. When I take them to the Mall for a shopping day, they don't leave my home unless they both have at least 200.00 in their pockets and a fistful of my credit cards. What that should tell you is that they both have plenty of economic justice because I make sure of it. Which grand daughter do you think gets followed around by some asshole mall cop who thinks she is probably "stealing" something? Economic justice does not trickle down to stop racism. Which grand daughter do you think will land a good job after she gets Bernie's free college? How will a free college degree help my Black grand daughter if she can't get past the door because she is Black? It isn't that Bernie does not address the overall racial issues, it's that he thinks that overturning Citizens United will get my grand daughter a job. Getting money out of politics doesn't hep her at all. Do you see where I am coming from here?
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Please don't mistake my questions for ignorance on racism. Obviously I don't have the personal experience with what you're talking about there, but I've heard it from enough people (including part of my own family who are black) to know that racism exists. My question is specifically about policy. What types of policies could be enacted that would eliminate the situation you described above?
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)There are also many things that could be done on a Federal level, things that go beyond affirmative action.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Now let's compare that to Bernie's racial justice policy.
https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/
Did he miss anything? If so, what did he miss and what can be done to improve his policy?
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)His policies are sound and ones that most PoC would agree with. The problem is not the policies, the problem is his stump speeches. Everything for Bernie goes back to economic justice. No matter what he starts talking about, he goes back to getting money out of politics or oligarchs, or super pacs etc......... As well, he only started taking about racial justice about 3 months ago. He has never spent much time cultivating relationships in the Black community which is probably because he is from Vermont. I get that. It is about saying, it is about doing. I know Bernie has a good past record on Civil Rights. What has he done for the Black community in the last 20 years. What relationships has he cultivated in the last 20 years. This is his problem, not his policies.
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)If you HONESTLY think that Bernie only talks about CU, then you don't know enough about him to be talking about him with any sort of authority.
https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/
On top of that he addresses RACISM in every since speech.
On top of all of that, I could honestly give two sh!ts about Clinton's empty promises, because I - like many Democrats and pretty much every Republican - finds her to be dishonest and corrupt and untrustworthy.
Paying lip service to racism - or human rights, of women's rights - is NOT a better solution to racism than creating a system where millions of black kids can go to college. It's also not better than raising the minimum wage to a living wage or making healthcare a right.
This is what kills me about all of this, when Hillary was SOS she REGULARLY made public statements about countries and how they breached human rights, or women's rights, or minority rights, but THEN - sometimes in the same month - she'd turn around and approve arms deals to these same countries and their oppressive leaders... and 4x as many of these countries that donated to the Clinton Foundation got these deals approved by Hillary then those that didn't.
So speechifying is grand... good for her for making promises - vague promises - but I don't and won't ever believe they are genuine, based on her well documented record or hypocrisy and corruption.
JustAnotherGen
(31,781 posts)Stay on topic or I will lock this thread as off topic.
Thanks!
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)Nothing can end racism... Total red herring.
It's like saying, "what can Bernie do to eradicate sadness permanently on a worldwide basis?"
And don't not lock this thread on my behalf. It's gonna go nowhere as it's extremely over broad and there's no answer to your question.
JustAnotherGen
(31,781 posts)ETA - no - it was by someone else - not Herb Chestnut
But the op is on my ignore list. Their opinions, thoughts, questions hold no value so I wouldn't even dream of taking him off of ignore. When I did look I saw a slew of people whining because we booted them from this group this summer. Good grief. Get over it - ya know?
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)twice now.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Putting teeth into fair housing and investing capital into Black communities for housing and small business.
More lawsuits like the one against the city of Ferguson by the DOJ.
Lawsuits against school boards who are creating racist and impoverished schools for Black kids.
Ban the box and reduce penalties for non-violent crime. Obama has done reforms via EO for federal prisoners.
Look at any part of US society where the consequence of an action or a policy afflicts Black people in higher numbers than whites, and find a way to fix it.
Confront the concept that racism is just a "feeling."
Follow mainstream Black publications on FB or Twitter and read the articles. Get a variety of perspectives.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)Reparations for 2.5 centuries of brutal, horrific, and dehumanizing slavery, 1 century of Jim Crow and white terrorism against Blacks in the South and elsewhere, many decades of discriminatory federal housing policy (which built the white suburban middle class at the expense of inner-city Black communities), several recent decades of the War on Drugs and the prison-industrial complex which has stripped millions of Black men and women of voting rights, employment opportunities, and prospects for anything resembling a good life in general, decades of de-investment in schools and neighborhoods that are majority or plurality Black, nearly a century of "Separate But Equal" and other legal fictions....
Shall I go on?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)But that said, compare the depth, broad, and while we're at it, the content of this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/118740766
to that of Sanders' platform language.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)gaining understanding is good, when asking questions ... gaining "Inroads", I think is not so good.
But see my edited, prior response ... It's a good place to start, for the former; but, I suspect, not the latter.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Here's my impression of that speech. It was good. Very good. But there were almost no policy proposals in there that Bernie hasn't also offered, and on more than one occasion Hillary was a bit disingenuous on his positions. It was also a bit ironic that most of her actual policy proposals boiled down to economics. Also, negative points for reading from a teleprompter.
I don't want to turn this into a Bernie vs. Hillary argument because there's enough of those on this site. The point of this thread was to come up with policies that directly address racism outside of an economic spectrum that either candidate has not already offered.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I guess we hear different things.
That might explain a lot.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)But check this out and compare for yourself.
https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)BTW, I am fully aware of Bernie's platform.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Just as long as we're on the same page on where the candidates stand on the issues.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)"So instead of just labeling kids problem students, they can actually help kids with their problems and keep them in school.
And for schools that refuse to reform and states that refuse to take this issue seriously, I want the Department of Education’s office of Civil Rights to intervene, because this—
This is not just an education issue, this is a civil rights issue..."
I don't see that as boiling down to economics at all. There's the problems. There's the structure already in place. Enforce it.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)And it's something that Bernie should pick up as well. However most of her policies were economic policies.
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)Well, you would think someone who has done so much for civil rights would have no problem being in front of the issue instead of behind her. He should also pick up connecting other dots...
- "Now I think you know, because I sure believe, there are many police officers out there every day inspiring trust and confidence, putting themselves on the line to save lives. So let’s learn from those who are doing it right and apply those lessons across the country. Let’s make sure the Justice Department has the resources to hold departments like Ferguson’s accountable when they do it wrong.
- Up to 60 percent of prisoners who reenter society face long-term unemployment. That’s a recipe for hopelessness and repeat offending. My jobs plan would make significant investments in reentry programs for the formally incarcerated.
In my faith, we believe in second chances. In America, we believe in second chances. Let’s give those chances to people who need our help the most. Let’s give them a fair shot, which is also why I will “ban the box” in the federal government. And I want to thank Attorney General Holder, who has been really in the forefront of making so many of these changes happen. And I also want to thank another great New Yorker, Attorney General Loretta Lynch, who is continuing the work for equity and justice.
Now I will appoint Supreme Court justices who will see the Constitution as a blueprint for progress, not as an excuse to try to roll back decisions going all the way back to Teddy Roosevelt, which is apparently what some of them would prefer to do.
- Imagine what it would be like to sit our son or daughter down and have the talk. Or if people followed us around stores or locked our car doors whenever we walked past. That kind of empathy is critical..."
Maybe you should listen or read the transcript of the speech again without the myopic view of economics and hear what many people like me are hearing as well as economics.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)And I agree with them. Those are all listed in Bernie's racial justice page, and he talks about them when discussing racial justice.
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)You just have to read between the lines!
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)wants us to tell him how to help Bernie to speak to us, since he hears absolutely no difference in connections made, tone, and delivery of his message. And yet with all the samey-same, Sanders still lags behind.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)to move people for job deserts to where the jobs are.
A key distinction in the tone(?) of the campaigns can be found at the beginning, "To think of Harlem (the Black condition) in terms of crime and poverty, misses" a lot.
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)I do believe that just about sums it up. He is not speaking to my heart right now or at all during this season. He is not linking what he wants to do, as with the transportation example you've given, with how to do it. Nor relaying how when it's done the results are naturally good like in Harlem.
I just don't think, with all his years in government, he knows how to accomplish what he proposes. I certainly don't know and need him to tell me how, not feed me what I know and want.
All those pesky little details 
Thanks for pointing that out.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)You want to get my attention ... tell me what you plan to do; BUT MORE, show me what it looks like (i.e., who is doing it right).
I really can't see Sanders putting together the kind and content of speech as this.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/118740766#post4
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)
Can't put that kind of content together because his tone and delivery, tells me he lacks empathy. Sympathy, yes, since just now after 50 years. But empathy tells me that one relates on a deeper level. He needs some more schooling.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)I openly encourage all people to make inroads with the LGBT community by seeking understanding and offering honest communications. Of course you don't have to do the same. But I really want the straight community to make inroads with the LGBT community, and I'll take this or any other moment to invite them all, yourself included to make such inroads and thus increase mutual understanding.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)and from your source, "Inroads" can, also, mean ...
in·road.
[ˈinˌrōd]
NOUN
1.
(inroads)
progress; an advance:
"an important way to make inroads in reducing spending"
synonyms: advance · progress · forward movement · headway
2.a hostile attack; a raid.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=making+inroads+meaning&qs=RI&pq=inroads+meaning&sk=AS1&sc=3-15&sp=2&cvid=307A04A4F4524FF094044381E83B40BC&FORM=QBRE
But thanks anyway.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)I want the Straight community to know that their attempts at making inroads will be seen as attempts to make progress and not as aggression and that we seek communication and honest discourse, assuming good will until there is very good reason to think otherwise.
That's my choice. I don't care to make people feel like they have to tread carefully and worry about lexicons and terminologies. I want them to feel free to seek understanding.
But I've been doing this since almost all straight people were willing to say they wanted us all in hell so I've developed thick skin and strong protocols.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,781 posts)HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)because there is a lot of governmental anti-racist policies: Civil Rights Acts of 1866, Fourteenth Amendment, Voting Rights Act of 1965 Civil Rights Acts of 1968, Civil Rights Acts of 1991, Fair Employment Act of 1941.
And they are already old policies, so it's not addition of more but vigorously enacting what's already there. The question is tiresome because we know what to do. It's the willingness to do it that's the problem to me.
I like the way Jane Elliot deals with this tiresome question, "I want every white person in this room, who would be happy to be treated as this society in general treats our citizens, our black citizens. If you as a white person would be happy to receive the same treatment that our black citizens do in this society - please stand! - You didn't understand the directions. If you white folks want to be treated the way blacks are in this society - stand! - Nobody is standing here. That says very plainly that you know what's happening. You know you don't want it for you. I want to know why you are so willing to accept it or to allow it to happen for others."
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Or no grocery stores. Those that exist charge more for the products. The roads are not as well maintained. Schools have older textbooks and are run down and have higher numbers of children per teacher. Add fewer neighborhood parks police that lean more toward anti gang units than neighborhood policing. Masslve unemployment. Now multiply that by every city in the USA.
Addressing these issues will be a beginning. What it requires is a moon landing commitment.
psychmommy
(1,739 posts)Bernie alone can't get rid of racism. But, step one is acknowledging its existence and the part you play in perpetuating it. Acknowledging your white privilege and though it is painful, eradicating it. Stop blaming black people for all of the ills in this country. Look into your own closet and your family-see the poverty, addiction, under-education, teen pregnancy, violence-white on white crime. Stop looking at individual black folks actions and smearing all black people with the blame. If black america treated white america the way we are treated-the suicide rate would double. It is shameful that the history books have removed us and our contributions but, you complain because we take February to celebrate our accomplishments. We are racists because we have pride in our history that doesn't include you.
As you read this, you think "she is a racist". I am simply answering your question but, you really already knew the answer and don't want to act on it. It's easier to just label me a racist and pretend you don't know the answer.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)I think it's a bit presumptuous to say I think you're a racist. I don't. I grew up in Connecticut where I'm willing to bet there's some of the starkest divides between white/black and rich/poor in the country. When most people think of CT they think of rich white people driving around the country side in expensive cars and living in huge mansions. The truth is most of that wealth is focused in Fairfield County while the rest of the state tells a different story. If you ever have the chance to drive along Route 1, which hugs the southern coast, what will happen is you'll be going through a prosperous town like Stamford, Greenwich, or Fairfield. But then you'll cross the town boundary and immediately the scenery changes. Bridgeport is an extremely poor city with one of the highest crime rates in the country. It's predominantly black and latino. New Haven is the same way even with Yale. Farther inland you have cities like New Britain (where I lived for 6 years), Hartford, and East Hartford where the story is the same.
I grew up in the suburbs. An old farming town in transition. We had at most five or six black kids in our high school at any given time. A few years ago I came to the harsh reality that I grew up in privilege, and once I saw the racial and economic disparity within my own state it was something that could not be unseen.
I'm living in Maine now so there's not a lot I can do to help the racial divide here. I think Maine has one of the highest percentages of white people in the country. As a matter of fact, I just learned that a black family will be moving into our neighborhood in a couple of weeks, and I breathed a sigh of relief. This place could use some racial diversity.
But I just wanted you to know a little about my background, which hopefully gives better perspective about where my question came from.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)No doubt lots of people look at that and think "the extermination of white people", but that's a deliberate misreading of what I'm saying. The end of whiteness, of "The Dream", as Coates calls it. We can ameliorate until the cows come home, but as long as there is such a thing as "a white person" in the US, it's a losing game.
The US is the Great Bleach of the World. It's where non-white people go to become white. It happened with Jews, it happened with the Irish, it happened with Slavs, and before you say "their skin is white, though!", consider that it happened with East Asians and is happening with South Asians now (or was until 9/11), and for that matter it happened with the Lebanese (at least the Christian ones) decades ago.
America can be a land with "white" people, or a land without racism. One of the two.
