Obama's comments on gun control, has complicated matters..."Venting after rough day"

[virginia mountainman]

I have been door knocking, and talking to people trying to drum up support. And I am hearing "Gun Ban" again quite often...FROM FELLOW DEMOCRATS.....

A very vocal minority within the Democratic party, has badly hurt us with the blue collar once again.

I am honestly getting to the point of why even try, my freinds in the community are starting to view ME with suspicion? After all, up till the "gun control" comments I had been able to tell them "See, he has even PASSED pro gun legislation, he understands this, and will not do it"..... Now I can't say that, or help deflect the issue to something else. Yes Mittens did not do much better, BUT he said "NO GUN BANS"...That part came across loud and clear. And to many people that was enough to make them not hear ANYTHING ELSE YOU HAVE TO SAY.

But the President, said, in a highly watched, live TV event that he SUPPORTED a gun ban... The NRA is running ads almost wall to wall down here, and by the president's own comments, they are proven right...Up until then I was able to point at his actual record...When I do that now, they POINT TO HIS WORDS....

I am really tired, really stressed, and really bummed out by what I have been going thru on this and more. After I hit "post" I am going to go get into my heavily modified Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, and go to the Blue Ridge Parkway, for a late night ride, ever been to Mayberry Mill or the Lynn Cove Viaduct at night? I have... and it is time to go again I can enjoy the nice clear starry night, long range views on a very scenic, and very desolate curvy road, so I can get a good dose of the Turbo Coupe's athletic abilities in good measure. Ahhhh I am already thinking of shifting from 2nd gear to 3rd, stepping down on the gas and watching the boost needle swing past 20 PSI...

It's been a long time...Too long... I am almost ready to just toss in the towel. Even as bad as Mittens is, I am just so numb. Down here now it is now "Guns, Coal, and Obamacare" in that order. People used to welcome us, now their is a strain of open hostility. My friend that I stump with told me that after tonight, he was done. And I don't blame him at all. A coal company has recently declared bankruptcy in the area, we was ran off of the porch of a long time democrat supporter earlier today, he is scared to death that his pension is about to "go away" and just guess who he blames for this!?! To say the least, we was told to "go to hell"... I wish I could say this was an isolated incident, it is not, but it was the worst. The "silent nods" and "fake conversations" are just about as bad. Than not wanting to take a yard sign... Their mind was made up long before we got there, they "in the great tradition of the Appalachians" where being extremely friendly...To the point that a fellow Appalachian could spot the "I don't give two squats what you say, my mind is made up, but I am not rude, so we can talk a while, here you want something to eat?" almost instantly.

I dearly love my people, this hurts me deeply, I am done (stumping) myself.

I need this..............

[still_one]

1. and what television event was this, or how did they twist what he said, like the "you did

Not make that" lies

[virginia mountainman]

3. Do whaaaaaa?! Did you miss the second debate?!

No way to twist the very cut and dry comment; "Part of it is seeing if we can get an assault weapons ban reintroduced." statement during the second debate, evidently you missed it...

Evidently you're about the only one that did...

[still_one]

9. First of all he cannot do it without congress. Second he said he would support legislatior

Reintroduce legislation that bans assault weapons

That does not mean it will happen, but I tell you what will happen if Romney gets in

Social security and medicate will be privatized and thus destroyed. A woman's right to choose will be removed through Supreme Court appointments, and by that action civil rights will be moved from the federal level to the state

and there are a lot more issues where individual right will give way to corporate rights

So I guess they will have to choose, however, I suspect they would have never voted for Obama regardless of that statement

[virginia mountainman]

24. I agree. he can't do it....

So why talk about it?? It really pisses people off....

I swear gun control for us, is like abortion for repukes.... Just can't leave it the hell alone, and realize that the issue has long since been decided, and talking it up ONLY HURTS.

[yellowcanine]

2. Yeah right. You will have to do better than that, what was actually said, when and in what context?

And NRA ads don't count as a citation.

[virginia mountainman]

4. Another one?!!? Didn't no one watch the debate around here?!!?!?

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/obama-calls-for-renewal-of-assault-weapons-ban/

[yellowcanine]

6. Well there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between "gun ban" and assault weapons ban.

Just how many people in your community use an assault weapon for either hunting or defense? Where does it stop? Howitzers, tanks?

[slackmaster]

7. AR-15 pattern rifles are very popular for hunting, target shooting, and defense

If you go to a high-power rifle match I guarantee you will see many of them. They can be and often are configured for hunting.

[yellowcanine]

12. "At a high powered rifle match"

I don't doubt it. So what? If people have fancy toys they will show them off. My question was, how many people actually use them for hunting or home defense? And you and I know the answer is not many.

[slackmaster]

15. I disagree. They're very popular for varmints and smaller game like whitetail deer and pigs.

The round is a bit too light for larger animals. I don't believe it's even legal to use on large game in most states.

I know people who hunt with them.

[yellowcanine]

17. And people hunt with hand guns. That doesn't mean it is a good idea.

[glacierbay]

22. Why isn't handgun hunting a good idea?

Because you don't think it is? Is there some statistics you can link to to prove that it's not a good idea?

[gejohnston]

25. why not?

I hunted small game with a pistol. Since my hunting was more about supplementing my mom's meager salary, I used a rifle for deer. That and Wyoming didn't allow handguns for large game.

[slackmaster]

33. If I ever do hunt, I will almost certainly use a semiautomatic rifle

I have a good reason - Because of a vision problem I have to shoot long arms left-handed even though I am right-handed. The selection of left-handed bolt rifles is very limited, and they are expensive. Semiautomatics work perfectly for me.

[Eleanors38]

28. The AK and AR platforms are now supplanting "traditional"

bolt-action and the more powerful semi-autos already in the field. As of four-five years ago, some 16,000,000 of this type of arm were sold to the civilian market. This arm type is now the most popular center-fire rifle in the U.S.

Get ye to the range and see for yourself.

[oneshooter]

48. Reading is fundamental on the internet.

What he said was High Power rifle match.

http://www.6mmbr.com/highpowerbasics.html

&playnext=1&list=PL9732E4544D85151D&feature=results_main

[PavePusher]

54. The phrase "high power" in rifle competition....

merely means just about any caliber over .22 Magnum. .223/5.56mm is about the least powerful caliber, but popular due to it's short and medium range accuracy, relatively low cost and common usage. It does not fit any other definition of "high power" in the rifle world.

Millions of them have been sold and used for small-game hunting and home defense.

[glacierbay]

8. Here in MO

it was received very badly, just as I predicted when he said it, not that he was going to win here anyway, but it has spilled over into the Senate race, McCaskil should be miles ahead of Akin, but he's still in the race and just might pull it out.

[glacierbay]

10. Hunters in MO use the AR-15

pattern rifle for hunting, it's a popular, lightweight, accurate rifle.
BTW, you can own tanks and howitzers, you just have to have the money, nothing illegal about it.

[gejohnston]

13. you don't know what an "assault weapon" is.

In he California AWB, it banned target pistols used in the Olympics because of where the magazine was located.
People who are knowledgeable about guns etc call this an assault weapon:
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/marinefacts/blsmaw.htm
gun control advocates, who don't have any idea what they are talking about, call this an assault weapon:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon
The key word is that it is a political term, not a technical term. Meaning, it is a propaganda buzz word meant to be confused with machine guns by the knowledgeable. These bans are based on cosmetics and nothing to do with how it functions. For example:

There is no difference, they are the same gun with different stocks.
Actually, the SKS is a common hunting rifle in parts of the US and Canada.

[virginia mountainman]

18. Car warming up, got time to answer this "rubbish"...

I don't know anyone that uses assault rifles....BUT a large number of people, including ME and MOST OF MY NEIGHBORS (whom almost to a person are independent voters), happen to use semi-automatic rifles, that happen to "look" like military rifles...

Some people in their ignorance chose to call them "assault weapons". I can assure you, there's NO DIFFERENCE in a "gun ban" and assault weapon ban...

A ban is a ban.. And it just so happens that for the past DECADE the most popular rifles in the United States, just happens to be the "so called" assault weapons. Any attempt to ban them is doomed to fail, due to the house and senate, being very pro gun, so why even BRING IT UP?!

Poorly thought out comments, intended to "placate democratic urban voters" is helping to decimate us in the rural independent voters. Whom WILL turn on us on election day...Will the democratic urban voters turn on us at the polls had he NOT mentioned gun control? NO they would not have... I vividly remember 1994, do you?

let me say it again, A BAN is a BAN...

Now the Thunderbird is warmed up and ready to hit the road in all it's turbocharged glory!!!

[braddy]

52. They aren't "assault rifles" and they are the most versatile rifles in America, the best selling

also, hunting, target shooting, home defense, varmint shooting, they do it all.

Tens of millions of Americans got used to the shape while in the service, and we now prefer that design for our personal rifle. Why ban a popular design for nonsense, the appearance is simply comfortable and utilitarian, it doesn't change the bullet, in fact the bullet is weak compared to our other hunting rifles, that is why it is limited to smaller game.

[PavePusher]

53. Please define what an "assault weapon" is...

and then explain why they are not suitable for hunting or defense.

[Eleanors38]

16. Ah, the debates. Photoshopped and punched up --

weren't they put out by the NRA? Or was it da Onion. What-e-e-e-ver. Dude. It's all about...ya know, your dis'. I mean, like wow. Who talks to people anymore when you can just punch this button, icon, what-e-e-e-e-e-ver.

[gejohnston]

5. what matters is how it was precieved

and what was your point?

[msongs]

11. the guns, white man's god, and gays crowd isnt voting for obama anyway. nt

[glacierbay]

14. Gays aren't voting for Pres. Obama?

Are you fucking serious? Who the fuck else will they vote for? Rmoney?

[virginia mountainman]

19. Yea, statements like that really help....

[Eleanors38]

20. So, all THREE examples of matter and metaphysics aren't voting Obama?? Jeeez

[gejohnston]

21. white man's god?

Jesus was Middle Eastern, and I don't think there are very many Blond haired Coptic or the Syrian Orthodox Church. I sort of doubt even the Log Cabin Republicans are going to vote for Mitt. But then since I'm not part of the one percent, I don't actually know any.

[DanTex]

23. "Guns, Coal, and Obamacare"?

So let me get this straight. These Democrats of yours don't believe in gun control, environmental protection, or universal healthcare. And those of us who do believe in these things, you are calling us a "very vocal minority"?

Are you joking?

[glacierbay]

26. Wowsa

I read the same article, where did it say anything about environmental protection or universal healthcare?

[DanTex]

29. Ummm... the part that said "Guns, Coal, and Obamacare"

You are aware that the controversy over coal is based on environmental regulations, and also that "Obamacare" is short for something called the "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act", right? Or do you really only care about guns?

[glacierbay]

30. I am well aware of what goes on in the world

Just because I live in MO doesn't mean I'm some kind of backward redneck like some have intimated, not you of course, but regardless, this thread has nothing to do with those two issues.

[gejohnston]

27. he said they were indepenents

and no, he said the gun control advocates are a very vocal minority. Coal is a whole different deal in that part of the country, since he lives in Appalachia and those are about the only blue collar jobs that actually pay a living wage, it is viewed as basic survival. Of course there is the dominance of Rush/fundamentalist ranters on the air and local media.
I think Trumancare would be a better sell than Obama/Nixoncare.
Once you travel the US and the world, and actually get to know people who are not intellectual clones, you learn the world and the people in it are more complex and nuanced than the talking heads make it out to be.

[DanTex]

31. I don't see why we should give up on progressive policies like gun control, environmental protection

and universal healthcare just to satisfy a few right-wingers in Appalachia. And anyone who thinks people who support gun control are a minority of the Democratic party is every bit as delusional as the "unskewedpolls" crazies.

After Obama mentioned the AWB the "pro-gun progressives" all panicked and predicted doom but the polls haven't shown any hint that Romney profited from that. Looks to me like yet another case of a gun fanatic substituting personal experience and anecdotes for real evidence.

[glacierbay]

36. What is progressive about gun control?

And him mentioning the AWB in the second debate did hurt here in MO, he wasn't going to win in MO but it has spilled over into the Senate race, McCaskill should be waaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of Akin after that rape remark, now Akin could very well pull it out and win. That directly affects the elections.
And lest you ask, I'm still voting for Pres. Obama and Clair McCaskill.
The thought of a Rmoney win is to much to bear, but a lot of people who would have otherwise voted for Obama here in MO will now sit home and not vote which is a no vote for McCaskill.

[virginia mountainman]

37. Those right wingers you speek of...

Historically have been among the most reliable Democratic voting blocs...

Keep talking down to them from your ivory tower...

[gejohnston]

43. I think his tower is really

a Starbucks in a gated community.

[friendly_iconoclast]

51. A Peets in a gated community, more likely.

Starbucks is on the outs with that crowd due mostly to the chains' refusal to ban guns systemwide...

[gejohnston]

40. I don't view gun control as progressive

it just happens to be like by the left by an accident of history. No one said anything about the other two are off the table. What happened is the Dems decided to concentrate on the urban centers, to keep New York out of GOP hands, and gave rural areas the finger in the 1970s. Lacking information other than what they are exposed to, like right wing dominance in their media, you view them as "unskewedpolls" Right. So, anyone who has a different outlook, or has been a victim of decades of disinformation is a "right wing crazy"? The real world doesn't work like that. You sound like the kind of guy that pisses those folks off, "I know what is best for you, and I have your best interests at heart, but I hate your guts because I think you are a stupid hillbilly." I actually thought of you and Mike Malloy when I read this article:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2008/05/obama_and_orwell.html?fb_ref=sm_fb_like_chunky&fb_source=timeline
there are some progressive talking heads that get it. Thom Hartmann for one. He realizes it is about up/down not so much left/right. According to one of his stories, he figured it out in Vermont when these same hicks had Bernie Sanders and Bush signs. I don't get the Bush part, but the Sanders part is easy, he actually gives a shit about them.
Romney hasn't profited because those same people think he is full of shit.

[friendly_iconoclast]

42. "Personal experiences and anecdotes" are entirely valid when relating what one has witnessed.

And BTW, what "personal experiences" canvassing voters have you had during this election?

[glacierbay]

45. During my vacation I was canvassing neighborhoods

and doing telephone banks, you would be surprised how many people told me that because of the party platform combined with Pres. Obama's comment about the AWB, they were just going to sit this one out.
That hurts the Senate race here in MO and we need to hold every Dem seat in the Senate that we can.

[friendly_iconoclast]

32. Do you like having a majority in US Senate? That majority is due to just those sorts of people.

Had President Obama soft pedaled that question (or avoided it entirely) , it might have caused the loss of a few teetering-on-the edge voters who would have gone over to the Greens.

Instead, the reply he did make is causing us harm in swing/purple states. Tell ya what:

How's about we leave the "better pure than in power" shit to the Republicans?

[DanTex]

34. Causing us harm, huh?

This would be the kind of harm that doesn't show up in the polls, right? Because I haven't seen any movement towards Romney. I check Nate Silver every day, and the trend in swing states seems to be towards Obama.

[friendly_iconoclast]

38. Why take the chance?

Locally, "Mitt Romney writ small", AKA Scott Brown is still in the race against Elizabeth Warren. This sort of thing does matter, not so much here in Massachusetts of course.

[glacierbay]

39. Same with Akin vs. McCaskill

that race shouldn't even be close, but in MO the gun issue is very big and Pres. Obama's comment has hurt McCaskill.

[DanTex]

44. You're assuming it's a chance.

How do you know it isn't helping Obama? The polls I've seen have the AWB at over 50%, and most of the gun nuts who really really want to own AK47s are going to vote Republican anyway. Maybe a pro-gun-control stance will help win over the "soccer moms" who don't want their kids getting shot.

[glacierbay]

49. And the only reason it's at or over 50%

is because most people don't even know what a fucking assault weapon is, I'll be willing to bet my pension that if you educated the people about those clones IE, an AK or AR clone, their tune would change. Most people think that an AR-15 is a full auto rifle which is wholly false, but in those so called polls, they aren't told the truth about those semi auto weapons.

[friendly_iconoclast]

50. Better to have kept silent and let the *Republicans* talk about it.

"Plausable deniability" can be a wonderful thing if used properly.

[virginia mountainman]

35. You have no clue...Let me help...

Guns, first off, any talk of gun control, will generally end the conversation...And not in your favor, and they won't care what you have to say about anything else....Because in their eyes you the one that "walked into the house with dog crap on your shoe" from that point onward.

Coal, puts food on the table, for many folks (directly and indirectly) down here and they are acutely aware of it, yes they are very receptive to environmental controls, but ONLY TO A POINT, when it significantly interferes with putting food on the table, they will turn on you INSTANTLY, as Rich Boucher (D) a long term Congressman from my district that was turned out last election because it "appeared" he voted against coal.. Not only has several coal companies went bankrupt, last week Norfolk Southern, permanently laid off about 100 train crews, and in the information they gave to the "newly laid off" they pointed to a "long term decline in coal traffic". I have several as friends that are out of work now, these were good paying jobs" guess who they blame??

Obamacare... A minor issue, but one that does come up mainly due to misinformation. People are very suspicious anyway when it comes to healthcare. And it did not help that because it is flawed (need single payer), it actually caused many folks insurance premiums to take a jump last year.

In short, gun control is a complete non starter, you don't mess with Coal, and Obamacare is a confusing mess.....

Normally without the gun control, I could still manage to find lots of support, but add to that an administration that is openly hostile to coal with lots of pink slips floating around, and the confusing health care legislation. it is turning into a perfect superstorm in these mountains.

[DanTex]

41. So you really are suggesting we give up on several important progressive policies

just to placate a few of your center-right neighbors in Appalachia. Wow. Talk about a clueless and completely insular worldview.

You do realize that there are, umm, a lot of people who don't live in Appalachia, who think gun control is important, who think global warming and environmental protection are important issues, and who are smart enough to not be confused about Obamacare. In fact, most Democrats are like that.

[gejohnston]

46. you provide better alternatives

you create better replacement jobs, and you don't be a condescending ass in the process. No, I won't be asking for your help for that reason.
I don't think gun control is that important for that many people
http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00113449

and who are smart enough to not be confused about Obamacare. In fact, most Democrats are like that.

he said disinformation, not confusion. Even the smartest people are fooled by disinformation, if that is all they have. The right dominates the media, its like North Korean state radio.

[DanTex]

55. Hmm... so you agree with the Republicans on environmental regulations also?

Now I understand why it upsets you so much when I point out that pro-gunners and global warming deniers are cut from the same cloth. Because I was right!

[gejohnston]

57. not even close

and you were not right. Arrogant, and kind of shallow, but not right.
I don't know what environmental regulations have to do with guns. The Republicans have their stance of them for different reasons. To answer your question, no I don't. If you can't grasp why someone wouldn't be OK with giving up a livelihood or culture for something more abstract to them, then you need to get away from the TV and mature a bit.

[friendly_iconoclast]

47. Gun control advocacy is, like it or not, a marginal cost in this national election.

And that marginal cost is far higher in terms of actually winning seats in Congress than the cost of studiously ignoring gun control advocates would be.

Stay neutral on gun control and you'll get about 80% of what you want.
Promote it, and you will most likely get 100% of what we all don't want- a Republican majority.

[DanTex]

56. Not according to polls. And it doesn't seem to have hurt Obama.

I'm sure it hurts among conservative people in Appalachia, but were they really going to vote for Obama anyway? I think that you and the OP are making the mistake of assuming that everyone else is as obsessed with guns as you are.