10 shot Friday and Saturday across city (Guess where)

[shadowrider]

Ten people were wounded by gunfire in a handful of robberies and other attacks across the South and West sides on Friday and Saturday, police said.

An 18-year-old was shot in the chest during a driveby shooting in the Pilsen neighborhood on the West Side and is in critical condition atJohn H. Stroger, Jr. Hospital of Cook County, police said. Police were called about 3:10 a.m. to the scene in the 1900 block of South Morgan Street after receiving a report of a person being shot and found a crowd surrounding the victim who was laying on the sidewalk.

Witnesses on the scene told police they observed a red Ford Explorer driving southbound on Morgan with approximately 4-5 people inside. Witnesses heard gunshots coming from the vehicle, which fled westbound on Cullerton Street. Witnesses told police they heard someone inside the Explorer shouting gang slogans. The victim doesn't have any documented gang affiliations, police said.

A 15-year-old boy was taken to a nearby hospital after being shot in the leg on the South Side early Saturday morning, police said. While walking east on at East 93rd Street and Anthony Street in the Calumet Heights neighborhood at 12:45 a.m., the boy was approached by a 19- to 25-year-old man with dreadlocks. The man flashed a blue steel semiautomatic gun and told the boy to "give me everything you have."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-10-shot-in-last-24-hours-20120811,0,5916538,print.story

Thank God Chicago has strict anti-gun laws.

[upaloopa]

1. I think at times you really like those kinds of stories. In stead of seeing them as a need to do

something about gun violence, you see them as support for doing nothing. I'll probably get the jury on my ass for saying this, but I find you posts and tag line the most disgusting of all the posters on this board.

[shadowrider]

2. You have a right to consider them disgusting. Disprove them.

And I'm not going to alert on your post. I've found the chances of an anti-gun person having their post hidden is somewhat less than my chances of hitting the Mega-lotto.

[rfranklin]

5. Yep, those 15 year olds should be carrying...that's the ticket...

You sure are a convinincing representative for guns for everyone, everywhere.

[shadowrider]

12. I beg your pardon. I do not, in any way, shape or form, advocate for guns for everyone, everywhere

15 year olds should be home, with their parents, instead of out on the street.

Please save your smug assertions.

[rfranklin]

22. So you are for teenager control?

At what age can one walk on a city street?

Do you really think that without gun control, those same perps would not have guns? Perhaps the reason they have guns is because there is zero control of gun sales in other areas of the country?

[shadowrider]

25. I am not for teenager control. I think at that age, they should be home and out of danger.

If they choose to be out and about at all hours, and wind up getting shot, either deliberately or by accident, it could possibly have been avoided.

[Equate]

28. Zero control?

Please cite your source of zero control. I didn't know that the Brady Background Check law had been repealed. When did this happen?
Why is the gun control people's only come back is it's always other states fault?

[gejohnston]

78. your knowledge of current federal gun laws is either nonexistent

or you are being dishonest. To be clear:
It is a federal crime for anyone under 18 to possess a handgun, which is why the feds show up at school shootings
It is a federal crime to sell a handgun to anyone under 21
It is a federal crime to buy or sell a firearm to or from someone not a resident of the same state
He did not have an Illinois FOID, so he did not buy one in some small town down state.
He could not go to a gun show nor gun store in the next state and buy one.

Or did congress repeal Gun Control Act of 1968? If so, I don't picture Obama signing it.

If you look at any other drug infested area with Chicago type laws like Mexico and Jamaica, there is no reason to think they would not have guns.

[Trunk Monkey]

84. One thing is for sure those same perps have guns WITH gun control NT

[upaloopa]

17. There is nothing to disprove, You make no real statement. You only laugh at the tragedy that is

gun violence in this country. Your posts are not debate but rather the very clear picture of the self centered myopic view of the true gun nut!

[shadowrider]

19. I don't laugh about gun tragedies. Far from it.

You called my tagline disgusting, yet you say my non-statement isn't there. How can something that isn't a real statement be judged?

[upaloopa]

21. I told you before and I will say it again. Your tag line is something I heard in Vietnam. Your

using it as you do is disgusting. To equate domestic life with a war zone is low indeed.

[shadowrider]

23. Where in the world am I equating domestic life with a war zone? Specifics please.

By the way, you seriously don't think the south side of Chicago is a war zone?

Sheesh

[Warren Stupidity]

27. self referential irony alert.

[shadowrider]

31. No. The south side of Chicago may be a domestic, residential area, but it is a war zone

in every sense of the word.

[Warren Stupidity]

50. so the people living there are not part of this domestic life that you have never equated to a war

zone?

Why is that?

[shadowrider]

53. I'm sober and am not following your logic. Can you show me where, using specifics, I equated

domestic life to a war zone?

[Warren Stupidity]

56. sure just look up thread.

here: "Where in the world am I equating domestic life with a war zone? Specifics please. By the way, you seriously don't think the south side of Chicago is a war zone? "

How you could put those two sentences together without realizing they contradict each other amazes me. But then again you might think that the south side of chicago is not part of 'domestic life'. Is that your explanation?

[shadowrider]

58. The south side of Chicago is a war zone. It may appear domestic but it's far from. n/t

[Trunk Monkey]

85. the south side of Chicago is a war zone?

And if you go down there you better just beware of a man named Leroy Brown

[oneshooter]

87. I would guess that he doesn't/won't like my tag line either.

[Equate]

29. And what about the other anti gun prolific poster?

Have anything to say about him?
I would really like to hear your opinion of that poster.

[upaloopa]

39. I don't know who that is. For myself, I am not anti gun. I own a gun, but it is only a single

action .22 I used to use for target practice. I would like to own a collection of antique guns if I could. My dad use to trap shoot and load shells for his self and others. I went hunting with him as a kid. I tried trap shooting but it wasn't my thing. I thought his shot gun was a beautiful piece of craftsman ship. I owned a nickle plated Colt single action 45 but had to sell it to raise money.

I rather like some guns. I used a lot of different weapons in Vietnam and as such I am turned off by military type guns and the newer rapid fire pistols.

I don't fear for my life and don't feel the need to carry a loaded gun around. I don't think it is a good thing that so many people now go around carrying guns.

I respect a person's right to own a gun.

What I don't like is the attitude I see here at DU that makes fun of the very reasonable discussion of how to reduce gun violence and how that is seen as a threat to gun owners and
their discounting of the tragedy of the gun violence that exists.

[shadowrider]

42. You don't know who that is? - Snort -

On the main page to the group there are 23, count them, 23 anti-gun threads started by him including one with over 500 responses.

[upaloopa]

48. I am sorry I don't know that person. I don't spend my time here looking for gun treads.

[Equate]

43. The attitude comes from people like you

you call us gun nuts and you expect to be taken seriously?
I don't really care if you served in VN, I did too, so what? What's that got to do with any of this?

If this bothers you so much, why do you come here? Either grow a thicker skin or don't come here, that's the beautiful thing about choice.

I don't want to make enemies here or just argue with others, I suspect that we have a lot in common in other areas, just not this one. I respect that you don't want to own guns, fine, just don't come here demonizing those of us that choose to own them, whether they be military style or otherwise.

[upaloopa]

54. Like I said over and over. I don't demonize the ownership of guns. Just that gun owners join

in the search for ways to reduce gun violence. I call some people gun nuts because they really are nuts about guns. Not every gun owner is a nut.

I talk about my use of weapons in Vietnam because it was a real impression making thing on me. Months before I was a kid working in a grocery store then I was taught to use all these weapons that I never thought would be a part of my life. So I mean to say that I am familiar with guns as opposed to someone who never owned or used a gun and wants to outlaw all of them.

[shadowrider]

55. You'll find people here are quite willing to discuss ways to reduce gun violence.

But, in all honesty, using a term like "gun nut" is not going to start the conversation smoothly.

[upaloopa]

59. You are right and I should not use the term gun nut and will not do so again

[shadowrider]

60. Refreshing. Now, if you'd like to discuss ways to reduce gun violence, by all means let's do it n/t

[gejohnston]

88. how to reduce gun violence

personally, I would like to reduce all types of violence. It has been dropping for years for whatever reasons, and there are many.
here are my thoughts on the subject
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=59513
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=59491

I used to own a Ruger single six, I love single action revolvers. My next purchase after a center fire pistol will be Ruger Bearcat. My taste in rifles is almost as umm traditional.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

6. Hang around, you will see worse. I promise. Welcome to DU!

Always nice to see a Newbie in GC&RKBA ;hi:

[Equate]

11. What's disgusting about it?

He's posting a news story here, just like another poster here posts nothing but anti gun news stories, are you going to say anything about that? Fair is fair after all.
Don't you find it rather ironic that a city with draconian gun control laws has one of the highest, if not the highest, homicide rate in the nation?
Why no outrage over that?

[shadowrider]

14. I guess he hasn't seen the plethora of anti-gun posts by our resident google-fu master n/t

[upaloopa]

34. Here is what I find so disgusting. A normal thinking person is appalled by the death and suffering

gun violence brings. That person's normal reaction is to wonder what if anything can be done to lessen it. So he/ she discusses with others and tries to find what ever things might have the desired effect.

Gun nuts on the other hand don't give a shit about the death and suffering. All they can do is see the attempts to do something about it as a threat to their love of the ownership of guns.

[shadowrider]

36. Ok, O wise one. Here's your chance. What attempts would you try to alleviate the death

and suffering the illegal use of handguns cause, without infringing on the rights of gun owners?

[upaloopa]

45. That is a much bigger issue than can be covered here and I am not capable of giving the absolute

answer here. That doesn't mean that it can't be done by the people as a whole. I think that there isn't a way to end gun violence completely but it can be reduced. It would be a good thing if gun owners would join in that debate rather than the efforts to stop it. I said before that the more gun violence occurs especially mass killings the more there will be a call to restrict gun ownership. Gun owners can remain intransigent or join in the search for a solution. They only help themselves by joining in and hurt themselves by remaining intransigent.

[Equate]

49. Gun owners are instrangient?

Really? Everytime gun owners have given a little, the other side just wants more, when a new gun control law is passed and it doesn't work like the controllers hoped it would, they call for more gun control laws and when those don't work, they want more and more and more until they get their ultimate goal, a defacto ban.
I am more than willing to discuss ways to lessen the violence, whether it be gun violence, knife violence, 2X4 violence, whatever, as long as it is an honest discussion and not with pre conditions.

[upaloopa]

61. We need to support the ownership of guns by citizens as much as reduce gun violence.

[Equate]

64. I agree with you 100%

I would support what another poster proposed in another thread, a televised discussion between rational people that has to include all walks of life w/o all the rancor this issue seems to generate.
What I will not support is further restriction on the 2A, but I am open to tweaking the laws already in place to see if they can be more effective.

[shadowrider]

67. I fully agree.

The question becomes, how do we reduce gun violence?

Make pot legal. Have it sold in gov't stores and taxed. (It'd have to be pretty potent stuff or the smuggling would continue).

Increased mental health services.

Registration of firearms is out of the question I'm afraid.

[Equate]

37. I see

all you want to do is demonize and distort gun owners, your post is nothing but pure distortions of gun owners.
I find that most people in your camp often make statements from emotions with nothing to back them up, OTOH, pro 2A people will most often agrue from facts and have the stats to back up their points.
So, once again, why are you not demonizing a certain poster here who constantly posts nothing but anti gun stories which are more often than not, proven to be pure crap?
Can I get an answer w/o the insults like gun nuts?

[shadowrider]

38. I'm guessing those posts are ok with him because they demonize gun owners?

[upaloopa]

46. I am not demonizing gun owners. I am demonizing the callous attitude toward gun violence.

[Marengo]

70. What do you define as a "callous attitude", and who is demonstrating it?

[Warren Stupidity]

26. it is a need for more guns and less regulation in NRA world.

[Loudly]

3. Genius, we need to make 'em scarce from sea to shining sea.

Dingleberries can cross over into Indiana and get what they need.

[shadowrider]

4. Why the arrogant, condescending use of "Genius"?

Make your point Shares, and move on.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

7. sea to shining sea? what about a world wide ban? and who would you propose to enforce all this?

[Loudly]

9. We're the ones with the problem. The world will have to wait.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

10. I have no problems when it comes to this issue. I DO have a problem with our Health Care system

Last edited Sat Aug 11, 2012, 02:46 PM - Edit history (1)

especially, when it comes to Mental Health. I also have a huge issue with the Economic System. You are witnessing the signs and symptoms of the disintegration of The Grand Experiment in Social Democracy. -- Sad, isn't it . . .

[Loudly]

18. You have no problem with access to guns and ammo?

You have no problem empowering death upon whim and caprice?

Rethink the issue.

[shadowrider]

20. If you can show these incidents were committed by law-abiding citizens out on a rampage,

you might have a point.

But you can't, so you don't.

[Loudly]

24. What's law abiding got to do with it?

Hell, James Holmes was law abiding right up until the moment he wasn't.

[Equate]

30. I too, have no problem with the lawful public's

access to guns and ammo.

[Loudly]

33. Ridiculous. That's exactly where the unlawful public get theirs.

[Equate]

40. That's true

So what?
Because criminals steal guns is the reason to tear up the BoR? How about those that abuse the 1A? Is that a reason to abolish free speech?
You are no better than the RW'ers who want to restrict gay marriage, gay rights, restrict women's right to abortion.
BTW, why does a poster here call you Shares?
Is this an inside joke?

[Loudly]

44. Does exercising free speech deprive anyone of ALL their other rights?

No.

Only the willful misinterpretation of the 2A does that.

(Shares is apparently the nickname of someone who used to kick the poster's ass on here, and which he has never gotten over.)

[shadowrider]

47. - Snort - You're a funny guy there Sh..err, I mean Loudly n/t

[rrneck]

51. Sharesunited never made a single intelligible post

in his entire tenure here, much less a valid point. I thought he was a sock for random thoughts. And I haven't seen one from you yet either.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

76. imo, Random Thoughts made more sense. At least, occasionally, he showed flashes of brilliance in the

heap of dung.

[rrneck]

86. True that. At least RT had style. nt

[Equate]

52. Yes, free speech has led to the killing of millions of people across the planet.

Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Hirohito, need I go on?

Thanks for explaining that Shares thing?

[Loudly]

57. You're blaming words. But words are just ink and resonant air.

It's the sticks and stones which are lethal.

[shadowrider]

62. Words drive people to use the sticks and stones, or worse. Or was Hitler completly innocent

because he personally didn't shoot anyone?

[Equate]

65. W/O those words

those so called sticks and stones probably would not have been used.

[sarisataka]

69. I am glad to see you have nothing against the NRA...

after all they are just ink and a {lot} of resonant {hot} air

[Loudly]

71. They seem about as wholesome as NAMBLA.

[sarisataka]

73. As you said, just words...

You seemed to have a very pro-1A attitude a few posts ago, as words did not lead to action.

Interesting choice of groups to compare the NRA to. I believe from that I can extrapolate your view on gun owners in general.

[Loudly]

75. Or Westboro Baptist Church.

Just words.

[sarisataka]

77. In both cases

I find their messages to revolting, I fully support the first amendment gives them the right to speak.
you still have missed the irony. you are comparing a pro gun organization to a hate group. well progun people may think controllers are foolish or miss informed there is not hatred. the venom comes from the control side towards those who believe in rights.

[Loudly]

79. This make believe "right" you are referring to does not exist.

It's a nonsensical delusion which has been coddled for far too long.

To the extreme detriment of the nation.

[sarisataka]

82. Coddled since 1791

And like its nine cousins has been expanded to include the states

[friendly_iconoclast]

81. Loudly used to post here under the name sharesunited

[Equate]

83. Thanks

Now I've got it.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

74. I have not empowered anyone. That people abuse the responsiblity of their rights is the issue.

[rDigital]

41. Mental health issues are the polio of our time.

Public resources need to be focused like a laser beam on mental health and violent crime. Marijuana needs to be legalized and taxed, to take the wind out of the cartel's sails. Non-violent criminals need less jail time and more rehabilitation.

Until that happens, the violence will never end. Guns have never been the issue. However, gun control is a popular red herring for 1%er authoritarians, like Bloomberg(a 22 billionaire with constant armed security).

You don't give up liberty for security, it doesn't work and you'll lose both. Hello Patriot Act?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

72. Tell that to the Secretary of State and Our Foreign Policy. Good Luck.

Last edited Sat Aug 11, 2012, 02:47 PM - Edit history (1)

[Equate]

8. W/O even looking

I'm going to guess it's the gun free city of Chicago. Am I right?
I guess I am.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

13. !

[rDigital]

15. Chicago for sure. This is a gang problem. nt

[shadowrider]

16. But, but, but, guns are illegal there n/t

[moobu2]

32. Wow, we need lots more handguns everywhere.

[shadowrider]

35. Guns are illegal in Chicago and Illinois n/t

[aquart]

66. Disingenuous, much?

The death dealers drive to Virginia and Arizona to bring trunkloads of murder back to our cities. We don't have border checks at state lines, so gun-easy states make a nice profit depleting the populations of our saner cities.

Your argument is specious. You are a defender of mass murder.

[shadowrider]

68. Sure they do. They walk into the gun stores, go through an NICS check and receive their

trunkload of weapons.

[gejohnston]

80. wrong for a couple of reasons

one is read the Gun Control Act of 1968, no they can't.
Another is look at ATF trace statistics, they don't come from other states. The average crime gun is 10-15 years old.
http://www.atf.gov/statistics/download/trace-data/2011/2011-trace-data-illinois.pdf

http://www.atf.gov/statistics/trace-data/2011-trace-data.html

[Carroll]

63. gun ownership

Actually, gun ownership is guaranteed by common law, the same as building fires and keeping livestock, all subject to local law.
Actually, the 2nd. Amendment prevents the federal government from infringing on the (small in particular) state's rights to maintain a militia (comprised of already-armed citizens).
The first 10 Amendments were offered as an inducement to the small states to ratify the Constitution. It's only fair to consider them as they were intended. There is no implication that government will not impinge in any way on individual gun ownership, only on state militias were protected.

[shadowrider]

89. Follow-up. 15 more shot Saturday afternoon to Saturday night, making 25 total for the weekend

so far. We still have today to go.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/

[russ1943]

90. Is it Philadelphia?

10 shot Friday and Saturday across city (Guess where)
Where? The question is WHERE? Well even though none of your examples were fatalities,
I’d guess Philadelphia?
Philadelphia’s reported murder rate of 20.7 deaths per 100,000 population now tops U.S. cities with populations of more than 1 million. (Chicago is number two at 15.7, and Los Angeles a distant third at 7.8.) ……….“They sell drugs, but not as a primary enterprise,” he says, pointing out that few of the homicides appear to be drug-related. “A lot of the killings are over arguments (like) ‘you looked at my sister wrong.’”…….. The pervasiveness of violence, fueled by “poverty, …hopelessness and easy access to firearms,” leads to the kind of contagious effects similar to an epidemic, Taylor observed…… In his interview with The Crime Report, Ramsey noted that shooting victims were sometimes found with as many as 10 to 14 bullets in their bodies. Why do the shooters, nearly all of them young males, fire so many bullets at the young males they shoot? “One reason they keep pulling the trigger,” Ramsey said, “is because the capacity of the gun allows them to do so. When I was first in police work, the guns were called Saturday Night Specials. “They were usually low-caliber weapons and fired four or five shots. Now they have very high-caliber weapons with much higher capacity…..“With those guns,” said Ramsey, ”you’re going to have more hits, and the possibility of death is much higher. We have people literally bleeding to death before they can get to a trauma center.” http://www.thecrimereport.org/news/inside-criminal-justice/2012-03-philadelphias-killing-spree

With the most recent figures I can find for Violence-Related FIREARMS Deaths Among Residents of Metropolitan Areas and Cities --- United States, 2006—2007 there were eight cities with firearm homicide rates of almost double the two year average of Chicago’s.
City of Newark, New Jersey 25.4 firearm homicide rate per 100,000
City of Miami, Florida 23.7
City of Detroit, Michigan 35.9
City of Oakland, California 26.6
City of St. Louis, Missouri 24.1
City of Baltimore, Maryland 29.7
City of Richmond, Virginia 23.1
City of New Orleans, Louisiana 62.1
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6018a1.htm?s_cid=mm6018a1_w
There’s another dozen or so cities with firearms homicide rates higher than Chicago’s but didn’t make the double level including Philly.