Had enough gun violence? Time for 28th Amendment

[SecularMotion]

Armed to the teeth. Check. Possessed of enormous power over legislators, governors and judges. Check.

Able to dispatch muscle to any location in the country to defeat a political enemy. Check. Bold enough to openly extort police to expedite its agenda. Check.

It may sound as if I’m referring to the powerful drug cartels terrorizing Mexico. Or perhaps the mafia paralyzing Italy with impunity.

Unfortunately, the description updates the current status of the National Rifle Association. Not in Mexico. Not in Italy. But here in the United States of America.

http://southtownstar.suntimes.com/opinions/guestcommentary/14380439-474/had-enough-gun-violence-time-for-28th-amendment.html

[Reasonable_Argument]

1. It always amuses me

When people speak about the NRA as if it just magically sprung into being. The NRA is an effective lobby because it has millions of voting gun owners who support it. As for repealing the 2nd amendment, that's just a sad fantasy and one who's consequences are very poorly thought out. I believe the old expression is "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

[Missycim]

11. They have

over 4 million members, dont they have a right to be heard as a group? Just like members of the AARP? or the NAACP?

[Reasonable_Argument]

12. This is DU

The 1st amendment only applies to causes the majority here supports apparently.

[Missycim]

16. Oh ya I agree

with you there, if you support the 2nd you can be called all kinds of names that would get your banned in any other forum.

[SecularMotion]

17. That "group" is calling for the defeat of President Obama

Are they speaking for you?

[Missycim]

18. mr Deflection

I asked a question, dont their members have a right to be heard? and no I have never been a member or plan to be.

[SecularMotion]

22. Do you defend Fox News too?

[Missycim]

23. You must have boxer in your day

cause you sure know how to bob and weave and duck and dodge



Answer me this question, Dont the members of the NRA have a right to be heard, just like a member of any lawful group of citizens?

[SecularMotion]

24. If the NRA were only speaking for the rights of individual gun owners, it wouldn't be a problem.

Do you believe all NRA members support the defeat of President Obama?

[Missycim]

26. I think some do and some dont

as testified by some NRA members that belong to DU. To be honest I dont know what individual members think being that I dont belong or know anyone that does.


I have a feeling if the NRA was politically neutral and just stood for the 2nd amendment you'd still complain about them. Its sad but they only support people that support the 2nd (mostly) so if more Democrats supported them it wouldn't be so bad.

[Trunk Monkey]

33. I'm an NRA member and I don't support the defeat of President Obama

That said the NRA has the first amendment right to openly support or oppose any candidate on the basis of their stand on the Second amendment

[SecularMotion]

37. Do you believe the NRA speaks the truth about President Obama's stand on the 2nd amendment?

[Trunk Monkey]

38. To specifically answer your question, No.

If you want my opinion, President Obama is a little more pro restriction than I'd prefer him to be but I think he has enough sense to realize that it's a losing proposition and I don't think he'd push the issue against the clear will of the people.

BTW have you stopped beating your wife yet?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

45. you're kidding right?

Are you implying that we need to ban lobbyists from lying?

[SecularMotion]

46. Do you consider yourself a lobbyist for the NRA?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

47. no

[friendly_iconoclast]

60. Have you quit physically abusing your significant other?

[Missycim]

58. answer trunk monkeys question

Have you stopped beating your wife lol

[krispos42]

69. Their concern over his legislative history is valid, yes?

Does the NRA speak the truth about Obama's history as a legislator, including his public statements, campaign promises, and the like?

[rl6214]

51. "Do you believe all NRA members support the defeat of President Obama?"

NO, but of course you weren't asking me.

[rl6214]

49. You're not goint to get an answer from this one...

just deflection and name calling.

[Missycim]

55. there are certain

posters that do what you said along with trying to bait people into saying something that will get them banned.

[rl6214]

63. All the time, just don't take the bait.

Some of them (iverglas, shareunited) have been banned as well.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

74. Good to know.

[Reasonable_Argument]

21. No

Which is why I'm an NRA member but don't donate to the NRA-ILA. I do donate to the president's campaign though. I want the president to get a 2nd term but I also want him to drop the gun control issue.

[Atypical Liberal]

31. The NRA also supports and endorses Democrats.

Yes, the NRA is calling for the defeat of President Obama, because of his past stance on firearms.

The NRA is likewise calling for the defeat of any politician that is not friendly to the right to keep and bear arms.

The NRA also supports and endorses Democrats who are friendly to the right to keep and bear arms.

In the last election, all of my Democratic candidates except one had high marks from the NRA, and three of them were the endorsed candidate.

Any candidate, including President Obama, could turn the NRA into their staunchest ally overnight. Literally overnight.

This isn't something the NRA is doing to candidates. The candidates are doing it to themselves.

[rDigital]

41. Well stated. nt

[alp227]

68. Sadly, there's a host on MSNBC who openly advocated gutting the 2nd amendment.

I was reading the wikipedia article about Alex Wagner and found this quote from her appearance on Real Time with Bill Maher: "I just think in the grand scheme of the rights that we have; the right of assembly, free speech, I mean, owning a gun does not, it does not tally on the same level as those other Constitutional rights."

That's too extreme for me. I'm going to skip her show then.

[Missycim]

2. Wait a second

there have been at least 2 articles stating the NRA's power is an illusion, so who is right and who is wrong?

[safeinOhio]

5. They have the power of money and influence over

low information voters. 2008 election of Obama by 10 million sane voters and his landslide election this year show they are a paper tiger in national election that include urban voters.

[Missycim]

7. I hope it will be

but I doubt it will be a landslide.

[Trunk Monkey]

35. I believe Obama will win but I don't think it will be a landslide

Actually I don't care if it's a landslide or not as long as he wins

[Reasonable_Argument]

9. In that case

Why isn't he trying to push through more gun control legislation? Want a hint? It's because the swing states will turn on him in a heartbeat. Also, 2008's numbers were driven largely by the hatred the country had for Bush and no single issue was going to overcome that, thankfully. He's aware of what happened in 94 and would like to not see a repeat. Like it or not gun control is a dead issue because the right fervently opposes it and many of us on the left cross the party line when it comes to gun control. That's why it fails so badly.

[safeinOhio]

14. He understands all of that and that is

he will leave it up to HIS court.

[Missycim]

19. You're just a tad bit to late

its settled law, stari desecies (I could never remember how to spell those two words lol)

[rl6214]

52. Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117215392
ellisonz (20,157 posts)
The Myth Of NRA Dominance Part I and II: The NRA’s Ineffective Spending and Overrated Endorsements



and here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/117218901
ellisonz (20,157 posts)
The Myth Of NRA Dominance Parts III & IV: Two Elections the NRA Lost and the Declining Role of Guns

[friendly_iconoclast]

62. There was another just a few days ago:

PA politicians may be overestimating the firepower of the NRA

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117259716

[safeinOhio]

3. No need to repeal, just

re-elect a President that will appoint sane SC justices.

[Missycim]

4. well Secular get cracking on that new

amendment, i am sure by the time i am collecting SS you might be half way done.

[safeinOhio]

6. Like I said, no need to repeal, just

look forward to a balance SC with Obama's re-election. Being a member of DU, I know Missycim is looking forward to it.

[Missycim]

8. No when it comes to the 2nd

I dont think there should be much change in it to tell you the truth.


I hope the Democrats will take gun control out of their gameplan.

[Reasonable_Argument]

10. If you think the supreme court is going to overturn the Heller decision

You're going to be a very sad panda.

[safeinOhio]

13. McDonald was 5 to 4

and if you read Scalia's majority opinion on regulation of handguns outside of the home, you'll better see where it is all going. I'm sure the right to own a handgun IN YOUR HOME will be protected, but requirements on purchase and outside the home is a different story. So, I hope you are now happy with the gun laws, as they stand now, in Chicago on DC are constitutional and will stand.

[Reasonable_Argument]

15. Maybe

There's a few cases working their way up the ladder now at the state level so only time will tell.

[Missycim]

20. It seems like every law

Chicago or DC try to impose on people to stop them from owning guns has gone down in flames, but by all means keep your hopes up

[pipoman]

27. I don't know of any state

with enacted ccw laws which is looking to repeal those laws. Now we are up to 49 states with some sort of carry provision. I don't know of any state which is realistically considering even requiring NICS on in state private transfers....No, all the NRA boogieman stuff is nonsense, it's the voters. Hell, even right here in DU GD there isn't a credible portion who support additional restrictions, just the vocal minority.

[hack89]

28. If a conservative court can't overturn ROE v WADE after 40 years

why are you so certain a more liberal court is going to overturn Heller in your lifetime?

[gejohnston]

36. McDonald over turned Cruikshank

a despicable decision that made Jim Crow possible, and one civil rights lawyers have been chipping at since the 1930s. I don't see McDonald getting over turned without threatening incorporation once you get a right wing majority once again. Like or not, McDonald was a correct decision.

Not so sure about Chicago's, seems like they have been losing a lot of court cases and they have been ignoring the courts.

[ileus]

25. /guestcommentary/

more grabber lies...

[GreenStormCloud]

29. It only takes 13 states to stop a constitutional amendment.

I think we could easily find 13 very gun-friendly states. You lose again.

[slackmaster]

30. This fact is the cold slap of the wet hand of reality telling the author to snap out of it

Just as the Electoral College could never be repealed because there will always be at least 13 state legislatures that see the EC as an important check on the political power of big states.

[Atypical Liberal]

32. Bring it on.

The NRA represents over four million people. It is a perfect example of collective, organized action at work.

[spin]

43. NRA views are often held by many who are not members. ....

There are an estimated 80 million gun owners in our nation.

[blockquote
October 26, 2011
Self-Reported Gun Ownership in U.S. Is Highest Since 1993
Majority of men, Republicans, and Southerners report having a gun in their households
by Lydia Saad

PRINCETON, NJ -- Forty-seven percent of American adults currently report that they have a gun in their home or elsewhere on their property. This is up from 41% a year ago and is the highest Gallup has recorded since 1993, albeit marginally above the 44% and 45% highs seen during that period.



The new result comes from Gallup's Oct. 6-9 Crime poll, which also finds public support for personal gun rights at a high-water mark. Given this, the latest increase in self-reported gun ownership could reflect a change in Americans' comfort with publicly stating that they have a gun as much as it reflects a real uptick in gun ownership.

Republicans (including independents who lean Republican) are more likely than Democrats (including Democratic leaners) to say they have a gun in their household: 55% to 40%. While sizable, this partisan gap is narrower than that seen in recent years, as Democrats' self-reported gun ownership spiked to 40% this year.



***snip***



Bottom Line

A clear societal change took place regarding gun ownership in the early 1990s, when the percentage of Americans saying there was a gun in their home or on their property dropped from the low to mid-50s into the low to mid-40s and remained at that level for the next 15 years. Whether this reflected a true decline in gun ownership or a cultural shift in Americans' willingness to say they had guns is unclear. However, the new data suggest that attitudes may again be changing. At 47%, reported gun ownership is the highest it has been in nearly two decades -- a finding that may be related to Americans' dampened support for gun-control laws. However, to ensure that this year's increase reflects a meaningful rebound in reported gun ownership, it will be important to see whether the uptick continues in future polling....emphasis added

http://www.gallup.com/poll/150353/self-reported-gun-ownership-highest-1993.aspx

The media who hates private firearm ownership in our nation has done everything it can to convince Americans to elect politicians who will pass draconian gun control laws. It has failed miserably! Needing an excuse to blame its inability to advance this agenda, the media blames the NRA.

I will agree that the NRA is a largely effective voice for all gun owners despite the fact that only 4.3 million people are members.

[DWC]

34. I had enough of violent action against humans by

Lions, and tigers, and bears, and wolves, and..., and other humans. These perpetrators of violence use teeth, claws, superior strength, superior numbers, and/or tools such as stones, clubs, sharp objects,..., and guns.

In general, the most powerful tool available for self defense against violence being perpetrated by a living being is a gun in the trained and willing hands of the individual under attack.

Yes, we have had enough of violent action against humans. That is why I carry a gun.

Anyone who thinks law abiding citizens will remain law abiding if a law is placed on the books that effectively removes our unalienable right to life and the defense of that life from violent actions by others must mentally reside in La La Land.

Semper Fi,

[aikoaiko]

39. Democrats supporting this jackhole would do more to undermine the President than the NRA ever could

Fools.


edited to add: The jackhole being in author of the benighted column, not the author of the OP.

[Jenoch]

40. If your proposed

Last edited Sat Aug 11, 2012, 10:03 PM - Edit history (1)

28th Amendment is the repeal of the tenets of the 2nd Amendment then you apparently support a Republican takeover of both houses of congress and the White House for years to come. Why would you support that?

[spin]

42. It's not the NRA that politicians fear, it's gun owners who VOTE!

Gun owners do vote in large numbers against politicians who oppose RKBA and especially against those who want to ban firearms or accessories. Many citizens that do not own firearms are not overly impressed with imposing draconian gun laws on hones and responsible citizens as they often know such people as co-workers, neighbors or friends.

Those who oppose gun ownership and the media need a bogie man to blame their failure on. They simply refuse to admit that their ideas as largely unpopular with the voting public. Therefore they claim it is the big, bad, evil NRA who is responsible for their failure.

The fact remains many gun control ideas favored by groups such as the Brady Campaign and the media are largely unpopular.

October 26, 2011
Record-Low 26% in U.S. Favor Handgun Ban
Support for stricter gun laws in general is lowest Gallup has measured
by Jeffrey M. Jones

PRINCETON, NJ -- A record-low 26% of Americans favor a legal ban on the possession of handguns in the United States other than by police and other authorized people. When Gallup first asked Americans this question in 1959, 60% favored banning handguns. But since 1975, the majority of Americans have opposed such a measure, with opposition around 70% in recent years.








http://www.gallup.com/poll/150341/record-low-favor-handgun-ban.aspx

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

44. for over 120 years...

...Gang violence has plagued the US. Tombstone, AZ was no exception. Tombstone DID have gun control during that famous gunfight. It didn't work then as it doesn't work now. The peaceable folks left their guns with the marshall when they came to town. The Clanton gang, illegally, kept their guns.

BTW, the famous gunfight was in the street nearby, not at the corral.

As far as repealing the 2A, the BoR stands unchanged and will remain so for the life of the country.

[shadowrider]

56. Actually, it wasn't

It was in a small area directly off of Freemont Street. The area is large today (because a house that was there at the time is now gone, but a portion of the base can still be seen) but at the time it was no more than 18'X12'. It was about 50 yards north of the OK Corral but within the same block.

I've been to Tombstone many times. A dusty tourist trap in the middle of nowhere.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

57. that's about what I remember :)

[rl6214]

48. So you agree with this article, can't tell because you add no comment

You don't agree with your fellow anti-gun zealot here:

ellisonz (20,157 posts)
The Myth Of NRA Dominance Part I and II: The NRA’s Ineffective Spending and Overrated Endorsements

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117215392

and here:

ellisonz (20,157 posts)
The Myth Of NRA Dominance Parts III & IV: Two Elections the NRA Lost and the Declining Role of Guns

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117218901

It's so hard to read your mind over the internet

[SecularMotion]

50. Are you stalking me?

Democrats don't think in lockstep like NRAbots.

[gejohnston]

54. but you don't seem like a free thinker yourself

or at least a critical thinker.

[rl6214]

61. You are posting on an open group on the internet

got a problem with me responding to your posts, don't post here or put me on ignore. Or try to dispute anything I say.

[TPaine7]

53. .

[Missycim]

59. Do you know your proposel

will ensure republican control of the WH and congress for years to come, do you want obama to lose in NOV?

[SecularMotion]

65. That's what I hear from the NRA

[gejohnston]

66. what makes you think this person

isn't doing just that, like the Republicans that introduced the 2008 AWB? Why do you think Newt and all of the right wing Republicans voted for the amendment that became the original AWB?

[Missycim]

67. No thats what I heard

from Bill CLinton when he lost the Congress in 94 for signing the AWB, again I ask if you propose this 28th amendment there is a good chance of the Democrats losing the WH and Congress for some time, do you want that in an attempt to ban guns? I sure as heck dont.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

64. Good Luck with all that.

[krispos42]

70. I can't imagine how much better things would be with more non-gun violence.

Mmmmm... yummy.


Violent thugs with silent weapons preying on a disarmed and increasingly elderly population.

[jody]

71. It’s impossible to give away an unalienable/inalienable right. Our Constitution requires government

to protect all such rights whether enumerated or unenumerated for a majority or minority.

No Amendment can take away that right.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

72. K&R n/t

[NewMoonTherian]

73. What makes the author think state legislators are dumber than federal legislators?

The NRA will attack state legislators for discussing an amendment to abolish the 2nd amendment, as well they should. It isn't as if they'd need to, though - no legislator's career would survive such a stupid act of self-destruction even without the NRA.

I agree with SafeinOhio on this one. The most effective way to weaken the 2nd is through the Supreme Court. Not much the American people can do when the court decides to make up its own version of the law.