Gun Protest Rallies More Gun Rights Advocates

[virginia mountainman]

A very typical result for Gun Control rallies the past few years. Some fail to understand that by their activism, they simply create far more activists against them and more than cancels out their power and influence in state houses around the US.

I have mentioned this effect for many years around here. Gun Control advocates, are in many ways their own worst enemy. Even in the "friendly press" It is talked about.

A gun protest outside a Southfield gun store had more gun rights advocates show up than protestors.

It was one of several such rallies that took place around the country Saturday; all backed by the Reverend Jesse Jackson.

Outside Action Impact Gun Shop in Southfield only a few protestors showed up.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/06/16/gun-protest-rallies-more-gun-rights-advocates/

[Hoyt]

1. Would like to see photos of gun fundies . What's wrong with parents against guns?

[gejohnston]

2. They are protesting the wrong place

the illegal guns are not coming from there. It would make more sense for then to protest crack houses and head shops.

[Hoyt]

3. Most illegal guns are initially sold through gun stores which are just traffickers.

Every time some gun accumulator adds to their cache, it increases likelihood a gun will end up in a kid's hand. These parents and Rev Jackson realize that. I hope they keep spreading the message.

Still want to see photos of the so-called counter-protesters.

[Clames]

4. Well then Google them.

Must be an anti gun religionist thing; always wanting for someone else to do the work. They complain and whine but don't spend money or write letters or join protests. I'm perfectly fine with them keeping that attitude too.

[virginia mountainman]

5. THAT in a nutshell is one of the big reasons they are so ineffective..

Putting the weakness in their arguments aside for a moment, they truly don't seem to do much BESIDES...

They complain and whine but don't spend money or write letters or join protests.

I would also like to add "vote" to your list..

They clearly "under perform" I think it is because most of them truly do not believe in their cause. I mean, to put it bluntly, if you want to see how serious someone is about something, ask them put up some CASH... The old adage comes to mind "put up, or shut up". They refuse to do either. They won't "put up" money, time, or energy, and at the same time, refuse to "shut up".

Gun Rights supporters, myself included, WILL, open our wallets, to help further the cause. I also have no problems visiting, and writing legislators. The other side simply, chose not too, becasue, at the heart of it, it is not that important to them.

If it was, their wallets would be open, and they would be much more active.

My experience has been here in Virginia, I can only count about 4 really active Gun Control supporters STATE WIDE.... Their are more active Gun RIGHTS supporters that live on my road... It is relativity easy to take a free bus ride, and stand around and chant slogans, it is a whole different ball of wax to tell them they need to put their money where their mouth is.

In all seriousness you can find post I have made in the past describing the "antics" of young gun control advocates and their "entourage" at the State House, basically it was a bunch of kids playing "grab ass" games, in short, you get a couple of cute girls to go, than you can get all kinds of teenage boys to come along for the trip....

That is not counting the 10 to 1 people advantage the guns rights folks had. The vast majority of them older, voters, and more than willing to express a willingness to help in future elections.

My States legislators took notice, and acted accordingly.... Judging by the outcome of the legislation at hand, it was a complete BLOW OUT...

[DonP]

12. Another measure of their lack of committment - not one gun control website

I've been tracking it for several years and have yet to come up with a single gun control website that actually allowed any discussion of the issues. The only ones I found are one way broadsides from Brady etc. with no opportunity to question or post any alternative POV.

Funny how something that is claimed to be so very popular with the general public can't even support one website. I'm surprised that none of our stalwart whiners has tried to open a website on their own either?

The fact is Skinner probably has the ONLY discussion board out there that actually encourages both sides of the discussion to post and respond.

And now the gun control people are systematically trying to close down the discussion here by whining about it in Meta, or at minimum get rid of as many gun rights supporters as they can, by claiming we are all Right Wing Nut Jobs.

I guess if you can't win a poll on DU or the argument, get enough of them tomb stoned until you do, seems to be their motto.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

13. bingo.

they are trying to shut it down. wonder how bad Skinner will let it get before something is done.

[Hoyt]

17. Well there are lots of right wing gun sites to quench the gun culture's thirst for crap like this.

[DonP]

22. Why yes, yes there are lots of websites for gun owners - but not one of your ...

... like minded fellows seems able to get their ass off their mother's couch and start a gun control website anywhere on the net.

I can go to sites to learn about all the differences in a 90 year old Moisin-Nagant 91-30, but you have nowhere to go but here, thanks to Skinner's good graces, to spout your nonsense about how evil guns and gun owners are.

With all the broad based support for gun control you claim is out there, maybe you can explain why that seems to be the case?

[virginia mountainman]

27. Don it is simple..

If they COULD, they WOULD!

They obviously lack the commitment necessary to even run an online forum.....

If you look at the open secrets website, you will see that the most influential gun control group, the Brady Campaign, does not even have the resources to buy a really nice USED car.


http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?id=D000024445&year=2012

No surprise, considering how UNPOPULAR they are.

I wonder if they had considered any of the fine, FREE forum software available???

*chuckles...

[DonP]

28. Even the free software won't help them.

Brady would still need someone to manage it for them and with donations way down again from the Joyce Foundation, they laid off a bunch of workers in their PR group past year to cover Hennigan's salary and whatever they had to give Helmke to get his loser ass out of town.

I think that Brady is down to a real skeleton crew these days, maybe 4 or 5 full timers (if that) and an intern or two?

And it seems our own resident gun control supporters would rather try to get more members here tombstoned and intimidate Skinner and EarlG into closing this forum, rather than try and open one of their own where they can set their own rules.

Too much work to get their lazy ass off Mom's old couch in the basement I guess?

[GreenStormCloud]

29. There are a few other political discussion boards that have a "Guns" fourm.

I know of a few that allow political discussion posts by both liberal and conservatives and have a pretty active guns section with both sides active. However, DU is the best one that I have seen.

[gejohnston]

6. Naww

The parents don't want to take responsibility that their local pot salesman might dislike suing people. Like I said, the problem are the drug dealers and those making money off of prohibition, which includes drug dealers as well as CCA.

[safeinOhio]

7. I'll bet there are more people

killed by guns in love triangles and divorces than all the people killed by drug dealers.

[gejohnston]

8. Nope.

Last edited Sun Jun 17, 2012, 11:08 PM - Edit history (1)

I seriously doubt it. Although the two groups over lap. You figure most killers and victims tend to have criminal records. That may be the case in the one or two in North Dakota, although IIRC, that was the state that had no gun murders but five stabbings a few years back. The vast majority of our murders are concentrated in a few areas in a few cities. You may have been watching Forensic Files too much.

One more thing. While murder has been decreasing, gang related violence has not.

[ileus]

9. A friends of mines father ended up dead that way.

career Marine, caught in the act....wife and boyfriend put down right there by the husband.


chance you gotta take...pay to play if you will...

[hack89]

10. Chicago's bloody weekend: 8 dead, 40-plus wounded

McCarthy said guns and gang activity remain a huge issue for the city

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/11/12166475-chicagos-bloody-weekend-8-dead-40-plus-wounded?lite

Must be a lot of lovers in Chicago.

[hack89]

11. 90 due to love triangles. 673 due to gang killings. 463 due to narcotics drug laws

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl10.xls

Real facts are not a gun grabbers friend.

[safeinOhio]

15. Your source says

Juvenile gang killings 673
Gangland killings 176

What about those unknown 4,656

Other arguments 3215


Of course someone that uses insults like "gun grabbers" trying to make a point lose a lot of credibility in their arguments. If one can not refrain from insults in every post they must have a deep seated anger problem that would make them a danger to the public if they were to carry a firearm. Much like those that have to flip off any driver that gets in their way. Your arguments would carry much more weight if you would drop all of those insults that you throw out in almost every post.

[hack89]

16. Did you read my post about Chicago's bloody weekend?

that's a lot of lovers.

Where is the violence in America concentrated? Poor urban neighborhoods associated with drugs, gangs and violence.
Do you disagree with that basic fact?

Here are the most dangerous cities in America. What do they have in common (besides a high proportion of jealous lovers.)?

http://www.usnews.com/news/slideshows/the-11-most-dangerous-us-cities

[safeinOhio]

18. Thanks for dropping the insults.

Many reasons for high crime areas, unemployment, lack of opportunities, racism and others.

Perhaps you can see why and have some empathy for urban areas that elect mayors that seek more control on handguns. What works in the rural areas does not work in urban areas.

[hack89]

19. Are you willing to extend that standard to every constitutional right?

or do you feel that there is a core set of civil rights that every American can enjoy everywhere in the country?

That's what concerns me about your position - when politicians say "states rights" to severely restrict choice or marriage equality, you are rightfully offended. Then you turn around and argue states rights to allow cities and states to severely restrict the RKBA. I see it as a blatant double standard.

[safeinOhio]

20. I don't see any blatant double standard.

The 2nd Amendment can be seen in many different terms. As the Second Amendment is the only Constitutional amendment with a prefatory clause, it is different than any others. As Scalia has commented, it does not preclude restriction on purchase, restrictions on CCWs and where a handgun can be carried. I see no problem with the right of any legal person to have a handgun in the home for protection of that home. Background checks on purchase from a dealer leads one to think there should be no problem with the same on private sales. These laws can be determined by state and local laws. As you point out the large number of murders in high density urban areas, this is not the case in more rural less populated areas.
Equal protection under the law for marriage has nothing to do with the public safety of city dwellers or urban folks. It is a much clearer law and the civil rights Amendment has no prefatory clause to it.

[hack89]

23. But any gun control law must still pass strict scrutiny.

1. Compelling governmental interest.
2. The law or policy must be narrowly tailored to achieve that goal or interest.
3. The law or policy must be the least restrictive means possible.

And those standards trip up gun control proponents every time, especially the last. The fundamental problem is that you feel compelled to restrict the rights of a huge majority to address the problems caused by a tiny minority. Which is why gun control laws will continue to fail.

[gejohnston]

24. Even within the cities,

the problem is tied within specific neighborhoods. None of those restrictions actually do anything. As for the plight of mayors, I get there is not much they can do and they need to have some theater to look like they are doing something. Sometimes the theater is to distract people from noticing him or her laying off cops and other counterproductive actions.

[Atypical Liberal]

32. I think you'd lose that bet.

I'll bet there are more people killed by guns in love triangles and divorces than all the people killed by drug dealers.

I think you'd lose that bet. People who commit homicide with firearms almost always have extensive prior criminal histories. They aren't usually "heat of passion" or "just snapped" affairs.

So most firearm homicides are committed by criminals. While certainly there are criminals who engage in love triangles and divorces, I'd be willing to bet that drug dealers kill far, far more people than average lovers and divorcees.

[safeinOhio]

34. I'm not so sure,

if you look at FBI stats posted above....

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl10.xls

Felony type total:
1,923

Other than felony type total:
6,351

[Atypical Liberal]

35. That 6351 number...

4,081 of those "other than felony" homicides include:

Other arguments 3,215
Other not specified 1,781
Gangland killings 176
Juvenile gang killings 673
Institutional killings 17

Only 90 homicides were due to "Romantic triangle".

[Meiko]

14. How do you figure

that most illegal guns are sold through gun shops. Are you just making this stuff up as you go along Hoyt?

[Remmah2]

21. Are pharmacies then part of the drug cartels?

Are car dealers responsible for drive by shootings?

Is Budweiser responsible for teen drinking?

Only in Bizzaro world are we not responsible for our personal actions.

[Hoyt]

25. Guns enable drive by shootings. Bars boot teens. Pharmacies don't sell illegal drugs.

Fact is, gun stores are just distributors for guns. Most gun shops are handouts for right wing gun fanatics too.

[virginia mountainman]

26. Pharmacies enable drug overdoses. Bars boot teens. Gun stores don't sell illegal guns.

Fact is, pharmacies are just distributors for pills. Most pharmacies are handouts for right wing drug addicts too.

Rush Limbaugh to name one, Their I fixed it for you...

[Spoonman]

30. Cars enable drive by shootings!

Hardware stores and drug stores sell legal products that people use for the manufacturing of illegal drugs.
Pharmacies are just distributors for the illegal prescription drug market.

Fact is, we could play this game all day long.

[Spoonman]

31. Every time a car rolls off the assembly line,

it increases the likelihood a drunk driver will kill a family of four.

[ileus]

33. Let's try square wheels first, if that doesn't work we'll ban them.