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derby378

(30,252 posts)
Sat Jun 9, 2012, 08:52 PM Jun 2012

Texas Democratic Party adopts 2012 platform with strong gun-hostile verbage

Calling for restriction of "extended magazines," condones use of "terror watch lists" without due process, and stresses a "duty to retreat" when outside the home in regards to our state's Castle Doctrine.

Battery is about to die on me. No link to platform text as of yet. Bear with me. We've got some serious work to do in Texas.

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Texas Democratic Party adopts 2012 platform with strong gun-hostile verbage (Original Post) derby378 Jun 2012 OP
Kind of a provisional comment without reading the platform, but I'm petronius Jun 2012 #1
I always say... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2012 #2
As soon as the TDP posts the platform, I'll provide a link derby378 Jun 2012 #3
Cool, thanks, I'd be curious to read it petronius Jun 2012 #6
Sounds like they went to the bar before they started. PavePusher Jun 2012 #9
Not smart. Smart moths avoid flames. n/t TPaine7 Jun 2012 #4
Texas? hard to believe. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #5
Great election-losing strategy. Atypical Liberal Jun 2012 #7
Yea, Texans will like that....NOT... virginia mountainman Jun 2012 #8
Don't know about the "terror lists" but see nothing wrong with the rest. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #10
I think a lot of it depends on who sets the criteria for DTR derby378 Jun 2012 #13
The duty requires the option. You are not expected to be spiderman. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #22
depends on the jury gejohnston Jun 2012 #24
Homicide may be justifiable Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #32
legal murders gejohnston Jun 2012 #38
Of course it's an oxymoron. That's the whole point. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #42
No. gejohnston Jun 2012 #44
I agree, they get called on it if they are stupid Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #59
you have been watching too many cop shows gejohnston Jun 2012 #60
Very rarely watch any cop shows. Never liked most of them. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #63
this will show you how old I am SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #66
Police Story was good gejohnston Jun 2012 #69
Adam-12 was good also SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #77
Well, the first clue that your assumption has no basis in reality... Clames Jun 2012 #68
I don't think so, because not that many have murder on their mind. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #73
I fell off that bandwagon. gejohnston Jun 2012 #74
According to you, anyone with a mind to murder... Clames Jun 2012 #79
a couple of things wrong gejohnston Jun 2012 #14
Why should I have a "Duty to Retreat"? SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #15
The reason to retreat is to remove yourself from danger Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #26
If you can, but gejohnston Jun 2012 #27
If you cannot, then you have no duty to retreat. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #34
name one state or territory gejohnston Jun 2012 #36
Very good post SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #40
You make a lot of sense Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #54
SYG does not allow chasing the bad guy. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #56
When did I say it did? Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #58
I believe that you are confused. oneshooter Jun 2012 #67
I believe I said that if I could retreat safely I would SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #39
so if someone is attacking you, it should be mandatory armueller2001 Jun 2012 #23
Do you think retreating is turning your back and running? Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #28
false choice gejohnston Jun 2012 #29
Ask some of our friends from Texas Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #35
as I understand Texas law gejohnston Jun 2012 #37
I would love to have someone explain to me how SYG laws are different from spin Jun 2012 #55
The character of the dead guy becomes evidence. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #57
Sounds reasonable to me ... spin Jun 2012 #61
I can state categorically SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #41
Thankfully, most are like you. Sane. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #43
Which reminds me, gejohnston Jun 2012 #46
Mercy, mercy, mercy......... NT Simo 1939_1940 Jun 2012 #11
Here we go again Meiko Jun 2012 #12
Requesting an Update .... thanks. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #16
I can't find anything on the internet about this other then the OP. Kaleva Jun 2012 #17
me either and I have been searching.. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #18
The only things of interest I've found were: Kaleva Jun 2012 #19
yes, I found all those, too. I guess there is a reason they are being Quiet about this... Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #20
I emailed the Gun Owners Caucus gejohnston Jun 2012 #25
can you post his reply on here? at least the portion that pertains to this issue? thanks. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #30
I asked for permission, but I don't have it yet. NA gejohnston Jun 2012 #31
thanks n/t Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #33
Hi, Gary - it's me derby378 Jun 2012 #70
OK. gejohnston Jun 2012 #72
mobilize Democratic gun owners in Texas . . .wonder how many more of those there could be if Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #80
Why do we let 1 or 2 fringe regressives try and pilot the part into the past? ileus Jun 2012 #21
same reason the Repubs have been strangled by the abortion issue... Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #64
This is a funny thread, watching so many of you go off half-cocked. Electric Monk Jun 2012 #45
Almost all single action posters here. safeinOhio Jun 2012 #47
Replacing your P-22 gejohnston Jun 2012 #48
I personally like the SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #49
Have to check out the Vaquero gejohnston Jun 2012 #50
I love the Vaquero SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #52
I would like to check out the Bisley gejohnston Jun 2012 #53
interesting comment from the other side of the coin Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #51
That was a good funny. N/T GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #62
do you mean they adopted the National Platform? Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #65
Here is the 2012 TDP platform at long last derby378 Jun 2012 #71
It seems to me that Texas Dems have given up on Texas. oneshooter Jun 2012 #75
Fuck them, they really *do* support those terror watch lists. friendly_iconoclast Jun 2012 #76
could you please post the pertinent section? I can't open the file. thanks. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #78
Try checking this site for details on the platform derby378 Jun 2012 #81
Here's the pertinent bits: friendly_iconoclast Jun 2012 #82
oh well. Obama doesn't expect to carry Texas anyway and I guess the local Dems are happy leaving Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #83

petronius

(26,581 posts)
1. Kind of a provisional comment without reading the platform, but I'm
Sat Jun 9, 2012, 09:33 PM
Jun 2012

definitely disturbed to see Democrats fail to treat watch lists with anything but suspicion and skepticism...

derby378

(30,252 posts)
3. As soon as the TDP posts the platform, I'll provide a link
Sat Jun 9, 2012, 09:50 PM
Jun 2012

The convention adjourned about 90 minutes ago, and I think everyone at the convention is now either at the bar, driving home, or already asleep in bed.

petronius

(26,581 posts)
6. Cool, thanks, I'd be curious to read it
Sat Jun 9, 2012, 11:12 PM
Jun 2012

And in case I wasn't clear, my caveat wasn't a complaint or meant to question the accuracy of your assessment...

 

PavePusher

(15,374 posts)
9. Sounds like they went to the bar before they started.
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 03:03 AM
Jun 2012

Do they really think that stuff will win over voters there?

virginia mountainman

(5,046 posts)
8. Yea, Texans will like that....NOT...
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 12:26 AM
Jun 2012

What a stupid move, that will simply end up being another thing used against us.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
10. Don't know about the "terror lists" but see nothing wrong with the rest.
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 03:08 AM
Jun 2012

What does "extended magazine" mean? How many rounds? And DTR makes a lot of sense outside the home. Texas is a big place, lot's of space to retreat to.

derby378

(30,252 posts)
13. I think a lot of it depends on who sets the criteria for DTR
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 08:05 AM
Jun 2012

George Zimmerman is being criticized for stepping out of his car to confront Trayvon Martin; if he had stayed put and just stayed on the phone with dispatch, he probably wouldn't be behind bars right now, and Trayvon might still be alive. But if I'm confronted in an alley by someone with a knife or a pistol and I happen to be packing myself, my window for considering my options under DTR is quickly slamming shut. I don't want the parameters of DTR to render me DNR.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
24. depends on the jury
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 04:26 PM
Jun 2012

If half of the antis were on the jury, they would vote to convict regardless of how obvious of a self defense case it is. Defending yourself is not a crime, that is why it is called "justifiable homicide". Since justifiable homicide is not a crime, it should be up to the State or Crown to prove that you committed murder or manslaughter. You should never have to prove your innocence, which is what DTR expects.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
32. Homicide may be justifiable
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 06:35 PM
Jun 2012

It is the only act which does need to be shown to be justified. If evidence points to anything other than it being justified, then it should prosecuted and a jury allowed to decide. The onus is still on the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. SYG laws open the floodgates for abuse, as already seen by the surge of legal murders in Florida.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
38. legal murders
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 07:11 PM
Jun 2012

is an oxymoron. Maybe the numbers indicate there are more innocent people in prison because they had a suck assed lawyer under DTR? Just because some editorial came to some conclusion does not mean it is the correct one.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
42. Of course it's an oxymoron. That's the whole point.
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 08:01 PM
Jun 2012

My POV has nothing to do with editorials. I agree there are many in prison because of bad lawyers and many who aren't in prison because of good lawyers, neither of which has anything to do with DTR or SYG. The way I read the SYG laws, if you believe your life was in jeopardy, all you need to do is claim that and you walk. That is bullshit. That is what legalizes murder, by redefining it as justifiable homicide, based solely on the statement of the killer.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
44. No.
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 08:12 PM
Jun 2012

Some of that "increase" could be just the case under DTR. In the US, we have the "reasonable man" standard. I think most of them operate that way.
Nope. There is still an investigation. If the cops or DA call bullshit, then they can prove it in court. You don't "just walk." That is a common myth. There was a woman in Tampa a few months ago that said she killed a store owner in self defense. Problem was, she was nowhere near the place at the time of the crime. It seemed that she was covering for some thug, who actually did it, and thought her stunt would end the investigation. That stunt has been tried, and they get called on it.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
59. I agree, they get called on it if they are stupid
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 01:35 PM
Jun 2012

and there is evidence to contradict their claims. But imagine how easy it would be to actually kill someone you really disliked under these SYG laws. All you need is a place with no witnesses and maybe a throw down weapon for your victim. Piece of cake. Maybe bang your head against a wall a few times to get some authentic bruises and scratches.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
60. you have been watching too many cop shows
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 01:56 PM
Jun 2012

from the 1970s. If you are good, you could pull it off under DTR, just make sure to make it look like you were cornered. I give the cops and forensic types more credit than that. LA calls their CSI types SID (Scientific Investigations Division) for a reason. If you go to all that trouble, why call the cops to say you did it? If you are that good at covering up a crime, it will be just another cold case.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
63. Very rarely watch any cop shows. Never liked most of them.
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 04:31 PM
Jun 2012

Columbo was pretty good. I love Prime Suspect.

 

SGMRTDARMY

(599 posts)
66. this will show you how old I am
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 07:03 PM
Jun 2012

2 of my favorite were Highway Patrol starring Broderick Crawford, and Police Story. Classic cop shows.

 

SGMRTDARMY

(599 posts)
77. Adam-12 was good also
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 10:43 PM
Jun 2012

My favorite episode was when they were assigned a really messed up radio car, and towards the end of the show, they had pulled someone over for a burned out light but decided not to give a citation, then the driver pointed out to Malloy and Reed that the lights on their radio car didn't work.
Dragnet wasn't too bad either, but all in all, Police Story was, IMHO, the best cop show of all time.

Just a wee bit off topic here.

 

Clames

(2,038 posts)
68. Well, the first clue that your assumption has no basis in reality...
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 07:27 PM
Jun 2012

...is that if it was as easy as you say it is then people would be getting away with murder en mass. They aren't so then what is the problem? Do you really have such little knowledge of basic physiology and police forensics to believe it's as simple as you make it out to be? Do you honestly believe a wound that occurs from hitting your head on a wall looks the same as being struck with a brick, a bat, or a fist? I don't know, maybe you do lack education in the fundamentals here to throw down a crowbar then hit your head on the sidewalk to make up such a scene but I would like to think otherwise. Think first. Post second.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
73. I don't think so, because not that many have murder on their mind.
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 09:24 PM
Jun 2012

Do you really think we live in a world of individuals just itching to kill people en masse? But they are getting away with a whole lot. Have you ever looked up the stats on unsolved murders, but in this case, murder gets reclassified, so it doesn't go on the books as murder. Unfortunately, that doesn't change the fact that the Zimmermans of this world are getting away with it. From reading your posts, I'm sure I have a lot more knowledge than you do about most things, including criminal forensics.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
74. I fell off that bandwagon.
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 09:40 PM
Jun 2012
Unfortunately, that doesn't change the fact that the Zimmermans of this world are getting away with it.
Let's wait for the real trial. Quite frankly, I seriously doubt much of what the MSM initially claimed and the progressive media clings to. Why? NBC doctoring the 911 tape for starters. Rumors and claims that did not match what really happened. Plus, it came right after the Casey Anthony electronic lynching, where the DA fed the media a bunch of shit and they ate it up. Problem was, the DA could not demonstrate cause or time of death of the child. There were not defense lawyer tricks to show reasonable doubt. Even if the mother were convicted, she would still walk with a clean record because the DA withheld exculpatory evidence from the defense. That is a big deal in Florida. We take the sunshine laws that seriously. Oh yeah, then there is Richard Jewell, who was electronically lynched for doing his job as a private security guard. What does that have to do with Zimmerman? Not saying he is innocent, but just saying I fell off the "George is a violent racist" bandwagon.
Have you ever looked up the stats on unsolved murders, but in this case, murder gets reclassified, so it doesn't go on the books as murder.
I don't know about here, but in Japan the get reclassified as suicides.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Jewell
This is the polite term for electronic lynching
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_by_media
 

Clames

(2,038 posts)
79. According to you, anyone with a mind to murder...
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 12:08 AM
Jun 2012

..can do so and claim protection under SYG laws because "it is so easy". That is crap. Complete. Total. What would the stats on unsolved murders have anything to do with this? Nothing. Show me one "unsolved murder" where the suspect claimed a SYG defense. Zimmerman hasn't gotten away with anything yet, another false assumption. How weak is your argument when you have nothing but that dead horse to beat? No, you do not possess the knowledge to challenge me here. You already demonstrated poor understanding of human physiology (bashing head into wall...:rofl . You have not even a fraction of the technical understanding of firearms or laws pertaining to them that I possess. Could you even tell the difference between a lower receiver for a AR-15 style rifle that could accept a select fire trigger group and one that couldn't? The difference in bolt carriers? Start Googling. You have some work to do.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
14. a couple of things wrong
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 09:34 AM
Jun 2012

While it may be tactically a good idea, it should never be a legal requirement. Giving predators and sociopaths the street does not create a just or civilized society.


Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. summed it up best when he supported SYG in Brown v. United States (256 U.S. 335, 343 (16 May 1921)), "detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife"

Edit to ask Duty to whom?

 

SGMRTDARMY

(599 posts)
15. Why should I have a "Duty to Retreat"?
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 09:42 AM
Jun 2012

If I can retreat without putting myself in danger, I will, but there should be no "Duty" to have to retreat. IMHO, DTR laws are really stupid.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
26. The reason to retreat is to remove yourself from danger
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 05:55 PM
Jun 2012

Why escalate a situation if there is a safe way to avoid it. You have no duty to climb wall, but to defuse if possible. What's wrong with that?

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
27. If you can, but
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 06:00 PM
Jun 2012

what if you can not? Why should it be up to some DA? If you run, you turn your back to your attacker, that would put you in greater danger.

Defending yourself is not escalating anything.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
34. If you cannot, then you have no duty to retreat.
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 06:47 PM
Jun 2012

Retreating does not necessarily entail running or turning one's back on an aggressor, which would possibly put you in greater danger. It could entail locking your car door, dialing 911 and driving away rather than reaching for your gun and chasing the "bad" guy to shoot him.
Defending yourself should be in line with the kind of threat you are under. If a guy is approaching you with a baseball bat and he's 100 feet away, do you stand your ground and shoot him or walk or run to safety? If the guy is 10 feet away pointing a gun at you and you have no magic door to step through, then by all means shoot him if you can.
DTR is not designed to give the streets to the criminals. It is designed to instill common sense into the minds of the cowboys and would be Dirty Harrys of this world. The Zimmermans.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
36. name one state or territory
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 06:58 PM
Jun 2012

Last edited Sun Jun 10, 2012, 07:31 PM - Edit history (1)

It could entail locking your car door, dialing 911 and driving away rather than reaching for your gun and chasing the "bad" guy to shoot him.
Defending yourself should be in line with the kind of threat you are under. If a guy is approaching you with a baseball bat and he's 100 feet away, do you stand your ground and shoot him or walk or run to safety?
Can you name one SYG law that that allows such things? Each state is different, but I seriously doubt such is the case in any SYG state be it Florida, California, or any other one may name. Even if it were allowed, I would bet someone who would do that would most likely be in prison for something else.

DTR is not designed to give the streets to the criminals. It is designed to instill common sense into the minds of the cowboys and would be Dirty Harrys of this world. The Zimmermans.
I disagree. DTR was 19th century US, it could have been to give the streets to the Klan and Pinkertons. As for Zimmerman, I'll let Allen Dershowitz explain it.
 

SGMRTDARMY

(599 posts)
40. Very good post
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 07:21 PM
Jun 2012

and thats exactly what I would do but there is no reason to make it mandatory, 99.99% of CHL holders are of the mind that you are but theres always the .01% who is going to be an asshole and think that he shouldn't have to retreat and engage in a shootout. That being said, theres no reason to enact unnecessary laws.
I hope I made some sense here.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
54. You make a lot of sense
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 10:11 PM
Jun 2012

There is no reason to enact unnecessary laws. There is a need to repeal some of the more recent laws. DTR is not a new law. Texas SYG or Castle Doctrine as it is called is well illustrated at the following link
http://www.dallasnews.com/incoming/20120609-houston-trial-focusing-on-stand-your-ground-law.ece

GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)
56. SYG does not allow chasing the bad guy.
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 09:40 AM
Jun 2012

I the bad guy is retreating then he isn't a threat, you are not in danger, and may not use deadly force. You may put your strawman back in the barn.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
58. When did I say it did?
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 01:28 PM
Jun 2012

I have seen posts, from Texas, defending pulling a gun on would be thieves who were walking away with stuff. The point is that SYG in Florida and Texas' Castle Doctrine put the onus on the dead guy to say "that's not how it happened" if there are no other witnesses. These laws are far too subjective.
I'm OK with SYG if you are at home, but not in the street.

oneshooter

(8,614 posts)
67. I believe that you are confused.
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 07:20 PM
Jun 2012

"would be thieves who were walking away with stuff."

If they were"walking away with stuff" then they were thieves. If they were approaching with the idea of "walking away with stuff" then they could be called "would be thieves".

Oneshooter

 

SGMRTDARMY

(599 posts)
39. I believe I said that if I could retreat safely I would
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 07:14 PM
Jun 2012

however if you are required to retreat by law, that is, IMHO, a real problem as it can make you vulnerable to someone wishing you harm or an over zealous prosecutor.
I have no desire to ever cause anyone's death again if there is any way I can safely avoid it.

armueller2001

(609 posts)
23. so if someone is attacking you, it should be mandatory
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 02:21 PM
Jun 2012

for you to turn your back and run before you can defend yourself? What sense does that make?

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
28. Do you think retreating is turning your back and running?
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 06:01 PM
Jun 2012

Retreating is pulling back to a defensive position, when possible, rather than pursuing some thief or would be thief and shooting them in the back. It's about being a responsible citizen rather than a loose cannon. It's about saving lives, not taking lives. If someone is attacking you and you have the possibility to avoid escalation, you should take it. If that option is unavailable, then you do what you have to. It isn't complicated, just common sense.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
29. false choice
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 06:11 PM
Jun 2012
pursuing some thief or would be thief and shooting them in the back.
that has nothing to do with SYG either. That is role reversal. I think you mis-define escalation. Retreating can also escalate the situation.

es·ca·late (sk-lt)
v. es·ca·lat·ed, es·ca·lat·ing, es·ca·lates
v.tr.
To increase, enlarge, or intensify: escalated the hostilities in the Persian Gulf.
v.intr.
To increase in intensity or extent: "a deepening long-term impasse that is certain to escalate" (Stewart L. Udall).

SYG does not increase nor does it enlarge conflict. It really looks like redefining another term for newspeak, kind of like "assault weapon" and misusing the word vigilante.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
35. Ask some of our friends from Texas
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 06:58 PM
Jun 2012

It has been stated here several times that some have no problem with shooting thieves in the back as they run away. SYG gives carte blanche to those who want to kill others. Provided there are no witnesses, anyone can shoot anyone else and the DA can't prosecute when it's the shooter's word against the dead guy. You must see how ridiculous these laws are. They are laws sold to a hysterical public sucked in by fearmongering politicians who are in the pocket of the NRA, Koch brothers, ALEC et al..

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
37. as I understand Texas law
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 07:07 PM
Jun 2012
It has been stated here several times that some have no problem with shooting thieves in the back as they run away.
I remember that conversation. IIRC, that was a 1973 law signed by a Dem. I disagree with it too.

SYG gives carte blanche to those who want to kill others. Provided there are no witnesses, anyone can shoot anyone else and the DA can't prosecute when it's the shooter's word against the dead guy. You must see how ridiculous these laws are.
Bullshit. Inspite of the bullshit you read on blogs, Zimmerman was arrested and his pistol taken in to evidence that night. Forensics, which will be the case here. Do you think the other guy will be honest? Seriously? In the same circumstances, an innocent person would be going to prison under DTR. Like I said several times before, DTR is fundamentally unjust. Not every state has a good SYG law, some do. Oregon has on that would likely meet your approval.

They are laws sold to a hysterical public sucked in by fearmongering politicians who are in the pocket of the NRA, Koch brothers, ALEC et al..
You have been reading freerepublic left too much. Sorry, can't buy it. The Kochs don't give a shit about guns. The NRA and Kochs may latch onto ALEC for their own purposes, but the Kochs don't run ALEC.

spin

(17,493 posts)
55. I would love to have someone explain to me how SYG laws are different from
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 11:29 PM
Jun 2012

laws requiring a duty to retreat when there are no witnesses.

The reality is that a person who committed a cold blooded murder could claim that he did try to retreat and if there wasn't enough evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he was lying, he would walk.


GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)
57. The character of the dead guy becomes evidence.
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 09:49 AM
Jun 2012

I you shoot someone and they turn out to be a violent felon with multiple convictions for violence and a bunch of arrests, and drugs in their system then your story is likely to be believed.

If you shoot someone and they have a completely clean record, no drugs, and are well known to be a peaceful person, then your story will not be believed.

 

SGMRTDARMY

(599 posts)
41. I can state categorically
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 07:24 PM
Jun 2012

that I would never shoot someone in the back who is running away, at that point, they are no longer a danger to me and I won't chase them down, thats not my job, that the job of LE.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
43. Thankfully, most are like you. Sane.
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 08:04 PM
Jun 2012

There are others who have not chimed in yet who have stated the opposite. Most of them, thankfully, are no longer with us. My point is, Texas law allows for it. This has been pointed out more than once in this group.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
46. Which reminds me,
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 08:17 PM
Jun 2012

of the saying "everything is bigger and better in Texas." That is not quite true. True, everything is bigger in Texas, but everything is better in Wyoming.

 

Meiko

(1,076 posts)
12. Here we go again
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 07:15 AM
Jun 2012

I guess they figure we haven't lost enough elections to the thugs. Keep pushing the anti-gun nonsense and you are going to lose.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
18. me either and I have been searching..
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 01:16 PM
Jun 2012

I find it hard to believe that We would do this in Texas of ALL PLACES.

Kaleva

(36,147 posts)
19. The only things of interest I've found were:
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 01:25 PM
Jun 2012

A Hispanic was elected to chair the Texas Democratic Party

Opposition to the death penalty

Support for marriage equality

Support for the use of medicinal marijuana.


I couldn't find anything about guns, extended magazines, duty to retreat, RBKA, castle laws and so forth.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
20. yes, I found all those, too. I guess there is a reason they are being Quiet about this...
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 01:32 PM
Jun 2012


really short-sighted of them, me thinks.

if you can't be proud of something why bother?

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
25. I emailed the Gun Owners Caucus
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 04:31 PM
Jun 2012

it is for the 2014 platform. He said it includes all of that including curtailing civilian access to automatic weapons. I'm guessing they think it is 1933.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
72. OK.
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 08:31 PM
Jun 2012
Good morning, Gary - I'm afraid I have bad news concerning the platform. On behalf of the Gun Owners Caucus, I submitted a platform plank for consideration at this weekend's TDP State Convention in Houston in which the TDP would explicitly recognize our right to keep and bear arms while also recognizing the need to keep guns out of the hands of convicted felons, the mentally ill, and those convicted of domestic violence. The majority of Platform Committee members, however, tossed this platform plank aside and inserted their own language into the platform, calling for Texas to "curtail" civilian access to "automatic weapons" and "extended magazines," calling for the use of "terror watch lists" to screen out potential gun buyers with no regard for due process, and modifying our state's Castle Doctrine law with a "duty to retreat" when threatened outside the home. I recall there is other offensive language in the platform, but those are the highlights that I recall.

I voted against adoption of the 2012 platform on the convention floor. I may have been the only delegate on the floor to do so, but I have no regrets. It breaks my heart that this platform, which otherwise shows much promise for human rights and dignity, may be used against our Texas Democratic candidates.

There will be another meeting of the Gun Owners Caucus at the 2014 TDP Convention in Dallas, and I am trying my best to mobilize Democratic gun owners in Texas to be ready for Dallas. We need to heal our party's platform. We need to assert our rights. We need to speak up.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
80. mobilize Democratic gun owners in Texas . . .wonder how many more of those there could be if
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 12:14 AM
Jun 2012

the party could recognize our 2A rights.

thanks for posting.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
64. same reason the Repubs have been strangled by the abortion issue...
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 04:38 PM
Jun 2012

I am guessing it is due to ignorance of a philosophical nature. Where are this generation's Deep Thinkers? Where is the responsibility of actions? this is the question that needs to be asked in order that people understand WHY they do something. In order to answer Why one most give an accouting of their motivation behind their actions. ACCOUNTABILITY.

people have lost motivation, gumption. imo. ymmv.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
48. Replacing your P-22
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 08:36 PM
Jun 2012

with a Ruger Bearcat? I like the Bearcat's Remington design much better than the Colt design.

 

SGMRTDARMY

(599 posts)
49. I personally like the
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 08:42 PM
Jun 2012

Ruger Vaquero .45 long colt. I carry it in a cowboy style holster when I'm out riding my horse in the desert or the local mountains. Also carry my Winchester .30 .30 in a saddle scabbard.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
50. Have to check out the Vaquero
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 08:47 PM
Jun 2012

used to have a Blackhawk .357 before I joined the AF, and have not replaced it yet. I used to carry a Single Six hiking. Now I have a Walther P-22. I carry it when I'm back home, but can't here. Florida doesn't care for open carry. It lacks mountains and desert too.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
53. I would like to check out the Bisley
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 09:05 PM
Jun 2012

Read about them. IIRC, Colt made them to sell as target pistols.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Single_Action_Army#The_Bisley_model_.281894-1915.29
Now I'm homesick for Wyoming. You had to do it.
I'm starting to understand how Hockymom feels, just not about NYC.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
51. interesting comment from the other side of the coin
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 08:57 PM
Jun 2012

About Electric Monk
Favorite group: Gun Control & RKBA, 13 posts in the last 90 days (2% of total posts)
Last post: Sun Jun 10, 2012, 08:12 PM

About safeinOhio
Favorite group: Gun Control & RKBA, 315 posts in the last 90 days (53% of total posts)
Last post: Sun Jun 10, 2012, 08:44 PM

looks like there are many single action (cough cough) posters around this evening.

looks like all of us are interested in edifying ourselves on this most divisive subject.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
65. do you mean they adopted the National Platform?
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 06:06 PM
Jun 2012

Breaking: 2012 Democratic Party Platform Advance Release: WOW!
An Economic Bill of Rights
* Universal Social Security: Taxable Basic Income Grants for all, structured into the progressive income tax, that guarantee an adequate income sufficient to maintain a modest standard of living. Start at $500/week ($26,000/year) for a family of four, with $62.50/week ($3,250/year) adjustments for more or fewer household members in 2000 and index to the cost of living.
* Jobs for All: A guaranteed right to job. Full employment through community-based public works and community service jobs programs, federally financed and community controlled.
* Living Wages: A family-supporting minimum wage. Start at $12.50 per hour in 2000 and index to the cost of living.
* 30-Hour Work Week: A 6-hour day with no cut in pay for the bottom 80% of the pay scale.

more at link:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8852610

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
76. Fuck them, they really *do* support those terror watch lists.
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 10:34 PM
Jun 2012

It's official, folks: Democrats will support the abrogation of due process. Then they act surprised when the GOPers due the same.
I'm sure George W. Bush laughed his ass off when he found out about it.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
82. Here's the pertinent bits:
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 01:20 PM
Jun 2012
(pp. 27-28)

To continue the fight against crime, and to make our streets and homes safer, Texas Democrats support just and smart policies, including:
...
∙ strengthen the national Brady background check system to incorporate all necessary records including criminal, domestic violence, mental health records, and terror watch lists;
∙ institute a universal background check system to ensure that all firearm sales are subject to a Brady background check;
...
sensible gun control laws to curtail the availability of automatic weapons and extended magazines...

(p. 31)

We support:
legislation to preserve the right to self-defense while restoring the duty to retreat when outside of the home to discourage and prevent vigilantism...


Once again, the restrictionistas would prefer 100% of nothing to 95% of something

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
83. oh well. Obama doesn't expect to carry Texas anyway and I guess the local Dems are happy leaving
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 05:26 PM
Jun 2012

the Repubs in charge

The Fine Art of Grassroots Politics seems lost on Today's Generation.

Would be so much more neutral with only omitting a few words:

To continue the fight against crime, and to keep our streets and homes safe, Texas Democrats support just and smart policies, including:
∙ strengthen the national background check system to incorporate all necessary records including criminal, domestic violence, mental health records, institute a universal background check system to ensure that all firearm sales are subject to a background check;
∙ sensible gun control laws.

We support:
∙ legislation to preserve the right to self-defense.


I think worded as above they could get some swing over Voters....now is the time to broaden our definitions not narrow and pigeonhole ourselves. imo. ymmv.

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